Waiting for Guffman (the waitlist thread)

[Fishbucket]

Regardless of how you want to phrase it, getting in off a waitlist is often a longshot and it does mean different things than getting an outright acceptance. Generally funding is a very different story for waitlisted applicants, even the ones who manage to get an eventual spot in the program.

[Fishbucket]

Also, comparing where you choose to apply to school to how the school selects its cohort is a very flawed analogy. You apply to school to get a credential and make use of its many resources; the school accepts you in order to be one among many employees doing a job for them. The selection processes could not be more different.

[planesandtrains]

Regardless of how you want to phrase it, getting in off a waitlist is often a longshot and it does mean different things than getting an outright acceptance. Generally funding is a very different story for waitlisted applicants, even the ones who manage to get an eventual spot in the program.

none of this is true in my experience. programs that fund all of their students, i.e. good programs, fund all of their students, regardless of how they were admitted (immediately or via waitlist). and how you got admitted doesn't mean shit once you're actually in grad school. no one knows, or cares.

[practical cat]

Regardless of how you want to phrase it, getting in off a waitlist is often a longshot and it does mean different things than getting an outright acceptance. Generally funding is a very different story for waitlisted applicants, even the ones who manage to get an eventual spot in the program.

Because I don't define myself through this, I have very little concern over whether or not I am the first choice or the seventh choice because, as planesandtrains has expressed, there are just so few real life hindrances to getting in off the wait list. And because the numbers are so ridiculous at the top places, the difference between first and seventh is really so, so small and actually insignificant, despite what you keep insisting. To reiterate what planesandtrains said, funding is NOT a different story and no one actually cares (minus, I guess, you and people who need to care to feel better about themselves). And some wait lists are more dynamic than others.

Oh, and comparing the attitudes of adcomms and prospective students is not at all different in explaining how one shouldn't take being second (or seventh) choice as some big affront or as identical to rejection. Once again, I have had nothing but wonderful experiences in conversation with people from my wait list institutions and they all have expressed genuine willingness to have me attend, to answer any questions I may have, and to help me decide on them should I get the chance. Some wait lists totally do get forgotten in the admitted students shuffle but even that doesn't mean you're functionally rejected, just that they're not great at handling wait lists (it could mean they don't care or that their wait list is less dynamic, sure, but not necessarily).

[sebastiansteddy]

Regardless of how you want to phrase it, getting in off a waitlist is often a longshot and it does mean different things than getting an outright acceptance. Generally funding is a very different story for waitlisted applicants, even the ones who manage to get an eventual spot in the program.

 

I've talked to people who have been awarded fellowships (on top of standard TA-ships) once admitted off a wait list...

[Fishbucket]

Harvard is one of those "good programs" right? My friend got into harvard off a waitlist but they didn't have any funding for her. So that does happen

[Fishbucket]

Because I don't define myself through this, I have very little concern over whether or not I am the first choice or the seventh choice because, as planesandtrains has expressed, there are just so few real life hindrances to getting in off the wait list. And because the numbers are so ridiculous at the top places, the difference between first and seventh is really so, so small and actually insignificant, despite what you keep insisting. To reiterate what planesandtrains said, funding is NOT a different story and no one actually cares (minus, I guess, you and people who need to care to feel better about themselves). 

 

Are you sure you don't define yourself through this? Because no one accused you of doing so, but you decided to get defensive about it out of nowhere.

[practical cat]

Are you sure you don't define yourself through this? Because no one accused you of doing so, but you decided to get defensive about it out of nowhere.

You constant accusations of defensiveness (read: ad hominem attacks) aside, I'm expressing the reality of the situation because what you're saying is just factually untrue in most situations (mine, two espressos, bfat, anyone else on a dynamic wait list) and reads as a pointed attempt at making others feel bad about their situations. I'm not defensive, I'm merely expressing an alternative opinion. But we've been down this road before, haven't we?

Also, someone on Poli Sci posted this and it's kind of interesting. WAY more optimistic than anything I would say or have said (I think I have been very upfront about my assumption that I'll be reapplying next year) but interesting: http://www.uni.edu/~gotera/gradapp/results.htm

[bfat]

I know it's super tempting, but it would be really nice if we could all stop pushing other people's buttons. Overall these threads are really civil and the "arguments" are logical and well-thought-out... but it seems like, inevitably, somebody's gotta go pokin' away... and then all hell breaks loose.

 

[practical cat]

I know it's super tempting, but it would be really nice if we could all stop pushing other people's buttons. Overall these threads are really civil and the "arguments" are logical and well-thought-out... but it seems like, inevitably, somebody's gotta go pokin' away... and then all hell breaks loose.

 

Up. Vote. I'm going to go away and be productive now, thanks. (Maybe.)

[Fishbucket]

When someone is very insecure, their whole body becomes a button

[bluecheese]

Just to jump in, and to try to get this back towards legit discussion:

 

Sometimes waitlist don't get "full" funding, or they don't get as good of funding. I'm sure this is especially true at places like UW-Madison where funding isn't "perfect" (some accepted students have to work to get 8k stipends working at desks their first year, so waitlisted students likely fall below them... which doesn't sound great... but, again, I'm sure this is broken up by discipline... maybe Shakespeare scholars have more resources than 20th century scholars, or some variation on that). I'm sure other schools have similar situations. That said, the vast majority of top schools say that they only accept people they can fully fund, so if you get off the waitlist you're fully funding. You might not have the same amount of funding as the person who got a presidential scholarship, but you're still in the program. And, honestly, just because someone got in outright or got a university fellowship doesn't mean they're going to be a better scholar, etc. That's silly.

 

Let me emphasize this for anyone with doubt: being waitlisted DOESN'T MATTER. I was waitlisted at the MFA program I'm attending, and I was accepted to two others outright (all fully funded). I chose to go to this one because of ranking/location (even though the stipend was slightly lower). It worked out well, and I'm now better published than most of the other people in the program (including people in other genres in their genre--I've published more fiction and nonfiction than some of the fiction and nonfiction writers, and I'm mostly a poet). When I tell people I was waitlisted their like REALLY!?!? A waitlist doesn't mean you're worse, or will be liked less by faculty. It just means people ranked you slightly [emphasis on slightly] lower based on a packet of relatively-representative documents that you sent them over the internet.

Edited March 3, 2013 by bluecheese

[ProfLorax]

Also, someone on Poli Sci posted this and it's kind of interesting. WAY more optimistic than anything I would say or have said (I think I have been very upfront about my assumption that I'll be reapplying next year) but interesting: http://www.uni.edu/~gotera/gradapp/results.htm

This is pretty much the greatest document I've read about the application cycle. Thanks for sharing! I wish it could be posted right at the top of the Lit forum. 

[ComeBackZinc]

Fishbucket, I think you need to provide a little evidence for some of the claims you're making here. If not, it's probably best to keep some of it to yourself. I agree that there's a bias here, as with any advice forum, towards optimism. But you're making pretty big claims without offering proof, and in a way that seems designed to provoke.

[Fishbucket]

Fishbucket, I think you need to provide a little evidence for some of the claims you're making here. If not, it's probably best to keep some of it to yourself. I agree that there's a bias here, as with any advice forum, towards optimism. But you're making pretty big claims without offering proof, and in a way that seems designed to provoke.

 

Which claims are you talking about? My friend who got waitlisted at Harvard? Or just the info about waitlists in general? I think we all know that waitlists often don't work out, but it really depends on the program. I don't really understand what kind of proof you want from me.

[ErnestPWorrell]

This wait list is making me feel fat.

[Fishbucket]

waitlisted at columbia. Arghhh!

[ComeBackZinc]

Which claims are you talking about? My friend who got waitlisted at Harvard? Or just the info about waitlists in general? I think we all know that waitlists often don't work out, but it really depends on the program. I don't really understand what kind of proof you want from me.

 

The info (or "info") about waitlists in general. One person getting waitlisted at one school and getting denied funding is not, to my mind, adequate reason to say that "Generally funding is a very different story for waitlisted applicants".

[antihumanist]

All this pessimism, jeebus.

 

I'm waitlisted at two places, and both schools have not only been pretty darned nice when it comes to being available, but they have also told me the funding offers that they would make were I to get in off the waitlist.  Both are very generous, and one school is paying to fly me out to their prospective students weekend.  Obviously my case isn't indicative of every school, but still, the apocalypticness from fishbucket is a bit overwrought.

 

I mean, really, unless you've got some huge ego insecurity you should see a waitlist as a VERY good thing.  While obviously it sucks that you're not actually in (and it's more than a bit excruciating to hope that someone ahead of you bumps out), the fact is that the school sees you as a potential grad student.  The fact is, you made all the cuts except for the very last (likely arbitrary) cut.  A school wouldn't extend a waitlist to an "inferior" candidate or a second class citizen - if you're on the list, they want you.

 

<edit> 

 

Also, remember, part of the reason for waitlists is the musical-chairs nature of this process. Student A gets in at Harvard, Yale, Michigan, and Berkeley.  They can only go to one of the schools.  So all the schools need a waitlist since they need the grad students as labor, but don't know which students will take their offer, and which will decline cus they got in somewhere else.

Edited March 3, 2013 by antihumanist

[Fishbucket]

All this pessimism, jeebus.

 

I'm waitlisted at two places, and both schools have not only been pretty darned nice when it comes to being available, but they have also told me the funding offers that they would make were I to get in off the waitlist.  Both are very generous, and one school is paying to fly me out to their prospective students weekend.  Obviously my case isn't indicative of every school, but still, the apocalypticness from fishbucket is a bit overwrought.

 

I mean, really, unless you've got some huge ego insecurity you should see a waitlist as a VERY good thing.  While obviously it sucks that you're not actually in (and it's more than a bit excruciating to hope that someone ahead of you bumps out), the fact is that the school sees you as a potential grad student.  The fact is, you made all the cuts except for the very last (likely arbitrary) cut.  A school wouldn't extend a waitlist to an "inferior" candidate or a second class citizen - if you're on the list, they want you.

 

<edit> 

 

Also, remember, part of the reason for waitlists is the musical-chairs nature of this process. Student A gets in at Harvard, Yale, Michigan, and Berkeley.  They can only go to one of the schools.  So all the schools need a waitlist since they need the grad students as labor, but don't know which students will take their offer, and which will decline cus they got in somewhere else.

 

Ok, I'll buy your story. I'd rather think of a waitlist as a reasonable shot at acceptance than a kinda-sorta rejection. It's certainly encouraging when they tell you it's a "short list" and that you're "very likely to be admitted" and all that. But sigh... 

[practical cat]

All this pessimism, jeebus.

 

I'm waitlisted at two places, and both schools have not only been pretty darned nice when it comes to being available, but they have also told me the funding offers that they would make were I to get in off the waitlist.  Both are very generous, and one school is paying to fly me out to their prospective students weekend.  Obviously my case isn't indicative of every school, but still, the apocalypticness from fishbucket is a bit overwrought.

 

I mean, really, unless you've got some huge ego insecurity you should see a waitlist as a VERY good thing.  While obviously it sucks that you're not actually in (and it's more than a bit excruciating to hope that someone ahead of you bumps out), the fact is that the school sees you as a potential grad student.  The fact is, you made all the cuts except for the very last (likely arbitrary) cut.  A school wouldn't extend a waitlist to an "inferior" candidate or a second class citizen - if you're on the list, they want you.

 

<edit> 

 

Also, remember, part of the reason for waitlists is the musical-chairs nature of this process. Student A gets in at Harvard, Yale, Michigan, and Berkeley.  They can only go to one of the schools.  So all the schools need a waitlist since they need the grad students as labor, but don't know which students will take their offer, and which will decline cus they got in somewhere else.

Yup.

[KeelyMK]

Ugh, just notified UCSB that I will not be attending :/ and one of their professors who sent me an email last week was a perfect fit, too. Sucks but I tried to remain professional, respectful and grateful for the opportunity when I sent them my decision. Hope that was the right way to go. So, anybody who was waiting for them, good luck ps - Irvine and LA will most likely be hearing from me in the coming weeks about the same issue, so good luck also to those waitlisted for them.

[gwarner13]

So have you pretty much landed  on Berkeley, Keely?

[KeelyMK]

So have you pretty much landed  on Berkeley, Keely?

I think so. I WAS planning on UCLA until I heard the funding offer from Berkeley last week. That played a huge part in reversing my decision because it was far more money than everyone else offered. #1 funding + #1 department + convos with several profs saying they personally really wanted me to stay (not just recruitment talk) won me back over.

[wreckofthehope]

I think so. I WAS planning on UCLA until I heard the funding offer from Berkeley last week. That played a huge part in reversing my decision because it was far more money than everyone else offered. #1 funding + #1 department + convos with several profs saying they personally really wanted me to stay (not just recruitment talk) won me back over.

 

I just saw your funding offer on the other thread... WOW! What an amazing fellowship. You must be so thrilled!