Fall 2014 applicants??

[purpleperson]

I think it might be important to point out, for discussion's sake, that adcomms might not be looking for the next Foucault or Butler in their applications. In fact, having that kind of dense language and thought in your writing sample might be more damning than anything. I've been told (which could be untrue as evidenced by some of the information disseminated by other faculty members) that adcomms are more looking for your ability to write well, succinctly, and elegantly. In reality, they merely need to see the trajectory of your ability rather than your current esoteric knowledge. It's their job to help you develop in that direction. Publications, meanwhile, only are concerned with your piece providing something new to the field. My first draft of my writing sample was way dense, and my professors advised me to strip it down, essentially make it more "elementary".

 

Of course, this could all be my professors just kindly telling me I'm a terrible writer, but I don't want you to think that rejection from a journal means rejection from an admissions committee.

 

Yeah, I do understand that perspective.  A friend of mine who I've talked to about it also says that I shouldn't take the journal's response as an "indicator," especially given that my professor, who is himself a published scholar in the field, was impressed with the paper.  He also pointed out that sometimes the editors of journals are simply very elitist and biting about what constitutes good work.  (The comments about my paper were, in fact, pretty scathing.  I would say even a bit beyond the pale.)  My friend said that sometimes editors simply don't like what you're saying, but because they can't say that, they say the analysis is weak, your writing is bad, and your perspective is un-interesting.  I'm not saying my paper is, in fact, something awesome.  In giving it more thought, and comparing it to articles I have read out of that journal, my paper is, in fact, probably less sophisticated.  I only submitted it because my prof told me five times in the space of an hour to do so.  I took his word for it that it was worthy not just of publication, but of that journal in particular (he named it).  But I can see how it is not...necessarily.  That said, it's still the case that sometimes editors of journals are simply hostile to the content of a paper but take it out on the analysis, relevance, uniqueness, interestingness, etc.  The reader just liking what you have to say plays a big part in how "well done" they think it is.  This happens at all levels.  Even when I was in T.A. training in my M.A. program and we "practiced" grading freshman composition papers in pedagogy classes, people would assess student work very differently, often ranging from B to F, and often it had to do with agreement or not with the content rather than quality of the argument/analysis.

 

I think the reason it makes me have doubts about my Ph.D. prospects is that I'm not sure what the expectations are.  Do Ph.D. programs expect applicants to be, from the get-go, ready to publish, or do they more see publication as something you'd be suited for at the end of five years, or close to the end?  I've heard both in that some schools' websites say things like "many students in our program publish multiple times a year," and some others say things like "the program purports to produce scholars who at the end of their time with us can publish widely."  (just making up wording, but that's the essence.)

 

The other reason I was/am concerned is that about a month or two ago when I was on the Chronicle of Higher Education message board, an English professor, presumably on an adcomm, broke down what they tended to get as follows:  "Out of ten applicants, typically one is a complete throwaway with spelling mistakes, grammar errors, and frequent incoherence in the SOP, and their writing sample will be a similar mess.  The remaining nine usually have good SOPs.  Typically, SOPs are almost all good.  It's the writing sample that tends to separate the contenders from the rejects.  The remaining nine will usually have two strong writing samples, with the other seven being literate but ultimately too elementary."  

 

That was the exact wording she used.  So when this journal used that wording to describe my paper, I couldn't help but think...that's what that lady was talking about.

 

I'm not gonna worry too much about it, though.  I still place a lot of stock in my own prof's take on it.  Plus, I think you're probably right that the adcomms aren't as harsh as journals.  They're looking for really intelligent potential (I would think) rather than geniuses whose work rivals all the stuff already written about that particular topic.  

Edited November 21, 2013 by purpleperson

[repentwalpurgis]

I'm also struggling with Berkeley's personal history. Why, why, why??? I found an example personal history online (from a history phd applicant), and reading it just gave me more angst. 

I personally hate that example of a personal history.  It's so damn flowery and pretty, and I honestly think that the person who decided to use it as example was perhaps the sole individual to fall in love with it.  I don't mean that the writing is bad, it's certainly organized and at times quite clear, but I think that this example should be taken with a grain of salt.  Ultimately, when you look beyond the grandiloquence of it, I think they are simply saying "I am unique because of my specific culture, that is quite different from the culture and time period that I study."  This should be of an inspiration to all of us: certainly we can all say something that expresses whichever anomaly that we are. /semi-rant

 

I'm writing something similar, though - a "diversity statement" for the University of Minnesota.  Anyway, when I emailed them, they said those are primarily used to determine whether an applicant is eligible for some kind of diversity-based fellowship.

[jaymarais]

For those of you who have applied/are applying to Northwestern, are you submitting a cluster statement? I'm torn...

[purpleperson]

I submitted a Cluster statement and Diversity statement to Northwestern.  I don't think it would hurt not to, though.  It seems like everything is about the writing sample and SOP, so if those are strong, it's not going to matter if you didn't declare yourself both diverse and interested in their clusters.  

[aGiRlCalLeDApPlE]

For those of you who have applied/are applying to Northwestern, are you submitting a cluster statement? I'm torn...

Is it for their English and Comp. lit programs? I'm applying to their comp. lit but it's not mentioned on their admissions page, or I might have missed it??

[jaymarais]

Is it for their English and Comp. lit programs? I'm applying to their comp. lit but it's not mentioned on their admissions page, or I might have missed it??

 

I am not sure about Comp. Lit, but it's for English, at least. There is a section on the English Graduate website dedicated to the clusters (http://www.english.northwestern.edu/graduate/interdisciplinary_clusters.html), and then it gives you the option to apply to one in the online application and attach a "cluster statement" explaining why you'd like to join. But they also say that you can join a cluster at any point during the program, so I guess it's not totally necessary to apply from the beginning. Wasn't sure if it might increase the chances for admission or if that factors in at all.

[jazzyd]

I think the reason it makes me have doubts about my Ph.D. prospects is that I'm not sure what the expectations are.  Do Ph.D. programs expect applicants to be, from the get-go, ready to publish, or do they more see publication as something you'd be suited for at the end of five years, or close to the end?  I've heard both in that some schools' websites say things like "many students in our program publish multiple times a year," and some others say things like "the program purports to produce scholars who at the end of their time with us can publish widely."  (just making up wording, but that's the essence.)

 

II wouldn't use an article rejection as a litmus test for your writing sample. There's also a difference imo between "elementary" writing and "elementary" ideas. The former a department will be much more willing to deal with than the latter, especially in a writing sample. 

 

And schools may say that their early year students "publish widely," but where exactly are they getting published? 

 

I personally hate that example of a personal history.  It's so damn flowery and pretty, and I honestly think that the person who decided to use it as example was perhaps the sole individual to fall in love with it.  I don't mean that the writing is bad, it's certainly organized and at times quite clear, but I think that this example should be taken with a grain of salt.  Ultimately, when you look beyond the grandiloquence of it, I think they are simply saying "I am unique because of my specific culture, that is quite different from the culture and time period that I study."  This should be of an inspiration to all of us: certainly we can all say something that expresses whichever anomaly that we are. /semi-rant

 

My interpretation of the statement isn't that applicants are expected to show difference, that they're expected to explain how they can diversify the field - something it still desperately needs, even now in the year 2013. For some, it is as simple as saying that their presence in academia alone constitutes an interruption of the typical educational structure and that as a faculty member they can encourage other students from not so conventional backgrounds to pursue research if they have the aptitude for it. For others (or also) it might be about how one is going to add a unique perspective to the field or open up how we think about literature. I am reminded of an 18th century lit class I took just a couple years ago that was definitely full of canonized works (Gulliver's Travels, Robinson Crusoe, etc.), but our discussions of these novels took on a much different cast than I believe they would have 20, 10, even 5 years ago. We talked about the process of Othering in these works, what the implications were for an imperialist culture, etc. While it as an 18th century European lit course, somehow it was not the same study of dead white guys.

 

And that's something British lit and even American lit folks need to be aware of. Just pursuing and talking about Hawthorne for Hawthorne's sake is not a reality in the field unless you do it really, really, really well. And as much as academia - particularly the humanities - likes to praise itself as critical of and separate from dominant systems of oppression, university culture is its own hierarchical structure. And there's reasons why there's still very few people of color, women (especially those of color), first generation college grads, people from impoverished backgrounds, and so on in the humanities. If I were reading personal history statements, I'd want to see that an applicant is sensitive to this lack regardless of how much of an "anomaly" their personal background is to what they want to study.

Edited November 22, 2013 by jazzy dubois

[BunnyWantsaPhD]

So my recommendation letter writers aren't being helpful in terms of looking at my materials and offering advice. It's such an awkward situation because they're already writing me letters so it's not like I can beg them to look at my materials as well. I sent them my materials in order for them to write the letters and asked them help then and haven't received any. So, at this point I'm going to ask other professors that I had classes with but who aren't my letter writers. Is that a bad idea? How should I phrase the email (should I mention that the other people weren't able to help--I'm just afraid that they'll say something like "this is the job of your letter writers."). Grrr, this process is so frustrating. 

[jaymarais]

So my recommendation letter writers aren't being helpful in terms of looking at my materials and offering advice. It's such an awkward situation because they're already writing me letters so it's not like I can beg them to look at my materials as well. I sent them my materials in order for them to write the letters and asked them help then and haven't received any. So, at this point I'm going to ask other professors that I had classes with but who aren't my letter writers. Is that a bad idea? How should I phrase the email (should I mention that the other people weren't able to help--I'm just afraid that they'll say something like "this is the job of your letter writers."). Grrr, this process is so frustrating. 

 

Wow that sounds terrible- sorry you're dealing with that! Have your letter writers actually said that they don't have the time to look over your materials, or are they just failing to respond? I know a few people whose letter writers fell under the "absent-minded professor" category, so they had to continue reminding them to stay on schedule with everything. But I can't imagine that professors who thought highly enough of you to write your letters would be unwilling to look over your application. If they are just scatter-brained, I would try reminding them again and expressing how much you'd appreciate their help.

 

If not, I would contact others, like you mentioned, but I wouldn't specifically mention the other professors unless they asked you outright why your letter writers aren't helping you. I would just phrase it like, "I'd appreciate another set of eyes on this," or "I'd value your insight," blah blah blah. That would probably make them more likely to want to help than seeming like you're tattling on the other professors (although obviously you have every right to be irritated at their lack of help). 

 

Just my opinion, but hope it helps!

[champagne]

This is probably a dumb question, but should I include presentations I've given at events just for students at my undergraduate institution on my CV? It probably seems like I'm trying to pad my background, but these presentations were approached with professional intent. I just wanted to show that I do have experience in that type of environment. My current CV doesn't really reflect that.

[repentwalpurgis]

II wouldn't use an article rejection as a litmus test for your writing sample. There's also a difference imo between "elementary" writing and "elementary" ideas. The former a department will be much more willing to deal with than the latter, especially in a writing sample. 

 

And schools may say that their early year students "publish widely," but where exactly are they getting published? 

 

 

My interpretation of the statement isn't that applicants are expected to show difference, that they're expected to explain how they can diversify the field - something it still desperately needs, even now in the year 2013. For some, it is as simple as saying that their presence in academia alone constitutes an interruption of the typical educational structure and that as a faculty member they can encourage other students from not so conventional backgrounds to pursue research if they have the aptitude for it. For others (or also) it might be about how one is going to add a unique perspective to the field or open up how we think about literature. I am reminded of an 18th century lit class I took just a couple years ago that was definitely full of canonized works (Gulliver's Travels, Robinson Crusoe, etc.), but our discussions of these novels took on a much different cast than I believe they would have 20, 10, even 5 years ago. We talked about the process of Othering in these works, what the implications were for an imperialist culture, etc. While it as an 18th century European lit course, somehow it was not the same study of dead white guys.

 

And that's something British lit and even American lit folks need to be aware of. Just pursuing and talking about Hawthorne for Hawthorne's sake is not a reality in the field unless you do it really, really, really well. And as much as academia - particularly the humanities - likes to praise itself as critical of and separate from dominant systems of oppression, university culture is its own hierarchical structure. And there's reasons why there's still very few people of color, women (especially those of color), first generation college grads, people from impoverished backgrounds, and so on in the humanities. If I were reading personal history statements, I'd want to see that an applicant is sensitive to this lack regardless of how much of an "anomaly" their personal background is to what they want to study.

 

Yeah, I agree, and I think I should add to my post as I don't think it is solely being an "anomaly" that makes for this statement, while I do feel that is in some extent what's going on in that Berkeley example.  Anomaly was a poor word choice. 

 

 

...and I'll add here that I would give a much more constructive response if I wasn't in the midst of submitting 10 graduate applications right now. ;}  Hope ere'body's surviving.

Edited November 22, 2013 by repentwalpurgis

[BunnyWantsaPhD]

Wow that sounds terrible- sorry you're dealing with that! Have your letter writers actually said that they don't have the time to look over your materials, or are they just failing to respond? I know a few people whose letter writers fell under the "absent-minded professor" category, so they had to continue reminding them to stay on schedule with everything. But I can't imagine that professors who thought highly enough of you to write your letters would be unwilling to look over your application. If they are just scatter-brained, I would try reminding them again and expressing how much you'd appreciate their help.

 

If not, I would contact others, like you mentioned, but I wouldn't specifically mention the other professors unless they asked you outright why your letter writers aren't helping you. I would just phrase it like, "I'd appreciate another set of eyes on this," or "I'd value your insight," blah blah blah. That would probably make them more likely to want to help than seeming like you're tattling on the other professors (although obviously you have every right to be irritated at their lack of help). 

 

Just my opinion, but hope it helps!

 

Unfortunately I think they're just unwilling to help at this point (my letter writers). I applied last year, so this is the second time they're having to send out letters. I'm pretty sure that one of the letter writers just wants to be done with me. That's not to say that she won't write a good letter, nor that she thinks I'm not a good candidate to get in, but I think she got frustrated with me during the writing of my thesis, and I think she's just over everything. So, I'm not going to remind her to help with the materials. 

 

One of the other letter writers straight up told me that she isn't as familiar with my area of research than the other letter writer (described above) so she's not sure how helpful she can be. Honestly that really makes me mad because she was my thesis chair, I took two classes with her, and she's a tenure-track professor--obviously her looking at my stuff is much better than no one looking at it. She obviously knew enough to be my thesis chair (my thesis was on gender and the Victorian period and she knew the gender stuff). She also told me that she's just overall frustrated with the application process because each department wants the letter tailored a certain way. She made it clear that she's "not annoyed with me" but, why express that frustration at all? It just makes me feel guilty when there's nothing I can do about it. 

 

My third letter writer just hasn't responded so I'm going to remind her. 

 

I'm just upset at this whole process--how do these people think they can't be helpful? You've gone through the process. You've looked at several statements before. It's obviously better than me looking at it myself. So ridiculous. I really hope that I never have to contact these people ever again and that I have a much better experience with my PhD. 

[BunnyWantsaPhD]

Is there anyone here who is already in a program that would be able to offer advice on my SOP? 

[semicolon2013]

I'm so sorry you're going through that; in the midst of my own applications, just reading about it made me panic inside.  I"m not in a grad program yet clearly, but I'll for sure read you're SOP if you don't find someone more qualified (or even if you do and want another pair of eyes).

[champagne]

Ha! I got an e-mail from the DGS at one of the schools to which I'm applying, and she attached a brochure for additional information. Lo and behold, I find a typo about halfway through reading the attachment. For some reason, that made me feel a lot better.

[repentwalpurgis]

Yeah, some of the "paperwork" I am filling out for a school that details my courses and whatnot is laden with typos.

[purpleperson]

I re-looked at my Cluster statement for Northwestern and noticed not a typo, but a sentence construction error that I would change.  Fortunately, it's something that would likely be missed by them, too, unless they read it over and over again like I have.  Some errors are less glaring than others, and I'm glad I didn't spell anything wrong or leave out an important word altogether.  Still, it eats at you when a sentence could have been constructed better than what you had originally.

 

I also noticed two or three tweaks I would make to the writing sample that I sent to Rutgers, Northwestern, and Ohio State.  They are more writerly choices than typos or glaring errors, though.

 

To put others at ease, I've heard that adcomms don't nitpick about things like that.  Not to say that your writing sample and SOP shouldn't be 99% error-free.  But in general, they are looking for strong content and overall good writing that is coherent and clearly polished.  An error or two in terms of typos or writerly choice is not of concern to them.  People have even said on here that they got in to schools despite spelling a key person's name incorrectly, etc.  

 

Fortunately for me, all my "reach" schools' deadlines are earliest (December 1st - December 10th or so).  Because I think I'm not likely to get into them anyway, it doesn't bother me as much that I have a couple things I would change in my materials.  Those same materials are being used for my later-deadline schools (the ones I feel like I have a better shot at), and things will be cleaned up that much more for those schools' submissions.

Edited November 24, 2013 by purpleperson

[aGiRlCalLeDApPlE]

I don't think I dare look at my writing after I have submitted my apps. I'd feel that I should have written every word differently.

[purpleperson]

lol...I actually told myself that I wouldn't re-look at my materials.  And I didn't mean to look at them again in search of "errors" and "typos."  But I had to re-look at the writing sample because I'm sending it to so many schools, and it seemed almost negligent not to keep doing periodic proofreads/content-checks until they're all submitted.  But that means that any school who already got submitted was submitted without the benefit of the -- yet more -- small tweak(s).  That said, I think I'm done re-looking now.  Even though I have seven apps left, I'm going to just submit with the proofreads I've done up to this point.  

 

Anyway, regrets do sink in once one has submitted.  In the case of Northwestern and Rutgers, I literally think, "why the fuck did I apply to you two?  I want my money back.  You're just going to take elite, perfect people over me."  I'm having serious doubts about my prospects for admittance into any program, actually.  It's not that I think I'm the worst applicant ever.  I just have this feeling that, weighing  my pros and cons, that I rate about a 7 or 7.5.  I'll be the "good" and "pretty strong" applicant, but never the 8s and 9s -- the "great" and "very strong" applicants -- that they'll end up giving offers to.  That's my honest sense of things.  

 

I might get lucky, though.  Who knows.

 

Hope everyone's doing well.  I'm on brief break from applying.  (About a week).  My next submission will be after I get paid on 11/29.

Edited November 24, 2013 by purpleperson

[Creffecreve]

How detailed are people's fit paragraphs? 

I am just mentioning a couple of professors and an aspect of their research that interests me. Do they expect anything more detailed than that?

[smellybug]

Is there anyone here who is already in a program that would be able to offer advice on my SOP? 

I will try to look at it--send it over. 

[repentwalpurgis]

How detailed are people's fit paragraphs? 

I am just mentioning a couple of professors and an aspect of their research that interests me. Do they expect anything more detailed than that?

I mentioned this in some other thread, but aside from people, I looked a lot at resources - journals, research groups, libraries, various associations with Some Other Great Library in Another State...methodology if that really vibed with me...I'm not saying they expect all or any of this, but it illustrated fit for me personally 'cos it got me real excited about the school, so.

[Strong Flat White]

A hopefully entertaining rant:

 

I have this incredibly supportive professor advising me who has encouraged me to make an application to a program that I was previously not going to apply to. This super cool professor asked early on that I send background information in the form of academic and professional CVs/resumes, etc. Each time this request was made, I sent the requested materials. This happened about 3 times throughout September and October. This super cool professor also asks that I send a reminder to write my letter, which I did, as of last week. In response, this super supportive person responds, saying that she's sorry for not making it clear, but that she will need to see all of those things that I keep sending her.

 

Sooooooooo...I know she gets my emails with attachments, because she thanks me for them. We have always had clear lines of communication and have always been in close touch.  I would call this a GOOD relationship. But then she forgets things and asks me again for stuff I already sent several times. And so now I begin to look like the ungrateful and unresponsive and irresponsible student who just takes for granted that someone would do me the magnanimous favor of writing me a letter of recommendation. Which is emphatically not the case. The irony, of course, is that she is the one who talked me into making this application (I know this sounds ridiculous, but it is true! A professor truly asked, "are you applying to such-and-such program?" and I said, "no," and she said, "why not?" and after many wonderful discussions, I am deferring to her advice and I am applying), and that she therefore talked me into asking her for this favor in the first place.

 

For the record, I'm holding up well. I check in occasionally on this board to see all the drama and to feel in solidarity with everyone in the same boat. I have classmates who seem really stressed out about applications. I should probably be more stressed than I am, but hey, I'm glad I'm not. Yet...isn't this weird?  It's like she's put out with me, somehow, that she's got to write me this letter, and all I'm trying to do is everything she ever tells me to do. Basically our relationship is me taking her advice as graciously as I know how to do. I know I can chalk it up to her organizational skills and my reading too much into her latest request. That would be the optimistic way to go. But the irony lingers and the weird feeling persists.

 

Anyway, like I said - I hope that entertains you. It's my best shot.

[BunnyWantsaPhD]

I'm so sorry you're going through that; in the midst of my own applications, just reading about it made me panic inside.  I"m not in a grad program yet clearly, but I'll for sure read you're SOP if you don't find someone more qualified (or even if you do and want another pair of eyes).

 

Thanks semicolo2013, I appreciate it. I know it's probably silly, but I'd prefer to just send my materials to people who are already in programs since then there won't be the temptation to model off of each other. No disrespect! 

 

I will try to look at it--send it over. 

 

Thanks for the offer, smellybug! it's coming your way! 

[repentwalpurgis]

Who else is freaking out?  Who else can't possibly look at that writing sample again without wanting to puke?  I mean, I know this is hard work, and a lot of hard work that I should expect, but the anxiety.... how do you refresh your brain?