Problem with a prof.

[graduate33]

Hi All,

 

I'm currently dealing with a sensitive situation at my host university. I'm an international exchange student (from Europe), in the second year of my master, studying in the US for the first time. 

The European educational system differs from the American one in two major ways: we don't have many choices in terms of courses and our relationship with our professors are very distant and professional.

 

I'm writing on this forum because I'm not sure what to do regarding the following matter and would welcome any advice:

 

A recently tenured professor is giving me a bad name because I dropped his class. I explain: I had the opportunity to sit in on one his classes during the first semester (he's from a different department) and really liked his method of teaching.

There was some serious flirting going on (he initiated it, and I must say that I was flattered because he's very handsome, he's less than 10 years older than me and he doesn't wear a ring on his finger, so from my perspective he was as available as I was, and we're both adults), but nothing really happened because he eventually said that he was married with 2 kids (he waited until the end of the semester to give me this info though!). Even though I felt a bit awkward that he waited so long to tell this, I didn't want any trouble and moved on.

 

For the second semester, I really wanted to take his class on a new topic that I was interested in. I had to insist because he didn't get back to me the first 2 times. I insisted because I knew him a little and thought I could do ok in his class even if the subject was new. He finally agrees, but when I see the syllabus (that he kept secret all this time, and would only deliver to his already registered students) I realize that it'll be more difficult than I thought. So I emailed him (in a very polite and professional manner) to tell him that I won't take his class finally but choose a different one, in a different department. I didn't say that his class would be too difficult for me though.

 

He never answered my email, but fine, I sort of know that prof. don't like when people drop their course but I didn't even started this one, so... A week after, I start with my other class and the prof - that I never met before, but who is friend with the other prof. - completely ignores me during the seminar. She wouldn't make eye contact, I waited after class to speak with her and introduce myself and she pretended she didn't see me. I could only guess that the angry prof. has spread whatever lies about me, because that doesn't make sense otherwise. She avoids talking to me in general, she doesn't care and responds to  my emails very very briefly.

 

Anyway, a month passes, and I see the angry prof. at the bus stop. We ignore each other, but then I feel bad and email him to ask if I could drop by his office hours to talk with him about what happened, as it seems to be a bigger deal than I thought. He doesn't answer me but get the registrar of the graduate school to send me an email saying that i'm officially dropped from his class (which I forgot to do before) because I do not attend it. I was bummed that he would do such a thing instead of speaking to me directly. I responded to ask if I could still access the readings on blackboard (the topic is really interesting), and apparently I can still do so (but he didn't respond to say yes).

 

I'm a little sad because he was a bit of an inspiration even if he's not the best prof. I've met, he was the nicest I've met when I arrived in the US. I didn't realized that dropping his course for another one would be such a big thing for him, it's just a class. Did I hurt his feelings/ego? Does it justifies the silent treatment? I don't think so.

 

I know now that he probably turned into an enemy, and I'm not sure what to do about that. Any advice?

 

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[bamafan]

First off, you made a huge mistake by not being professional. It doesn't matter if you're both adults. School is school. There is an explicit teacher-student relationship and it is unethical to behave otherwise. Being that you are in a powerless position and there is zero accountability for a professor, you pretty much walked right into a dumb situation. There's not much you can do to salvage this, just learn and don't make the same mistake ever again. 

 

Second, what's the extent of the trash talk by this professor? If it's not that extensive, you're best thing to do is move on, forget about it, and to NOT contact this professor ever again. I think it was also a mistake to keep trying to contact him after it was clear that the bridge was burned. Don't take this the wrong way, but this reminds me a lot of bad breakups, where one ex keeps trying to contact the other innocuously while the other acts coldly. 

 

I know this sounds negative, but the unfortunate reality in academia is that there is little accountability, especially when it comes down to "he said, she said". He'll always win. He is definitely just as (if not much more, given his position and supposedly maturity) culpable, but he's off limits as far as discipline goes. Keep your head up, move on, and far away. I don't think there's much you can do besides that, and any attempts to "fix" the situation will probably just make it worse. 

Edited March 11, 2013 by bamafan

[graduate33]

Thank you for your response Bamafan.

 

True, I should have known better but I really thought there was something honest going on there...

So far, I think the trash talk got back to the admin of the grad school because I'm awaiting an answer from them re: a personal matter. It was positive when I asked two weeks ago, when I contacted them to follow up recently, well, it seems that they need more time to decide, people are busy etc...If I get a negative definite answer, I'll know for sure that the extend of his trash talk was really serious and will definitely go and talk to him to set things clear. If, it's positive I won't need to speak to him ever again and could move on in peace.

 

I've learned my lesson, for sure.

[fuzzylogician]

It's hard to know exactly but it seems to me that you are making connections between (imagined) events where there are none. I'm wondering how it is that you know that trash talk is happening in the first place. Seems to me that the things you described could be chalked up to normal professor-student interactions--but your interactions with the married prof. needs to stop immediately and you need to stop trying to contact him, since he clearly is trying to avoid you. He might have been a potential inspiration in the past, but your (pl) actions have taken this opportunity off the table. As for getting short emails from another professor, that doesn't strike me as out of the ordinary and I'm not sure how to decide whether or not you're reading too much into someone "pretending not to see you" or avoiding you. Have you tried scheduling a meeting with this professor to talk about whatever questions you have, or are you just hanging out after class trying to talk to her? After class she may be busy and not have time to talk to students. Honestly even if a prof. was spreading rumors about you, it's hard to imagine another professor going out of their way to ignore you because of it. Furthermore, I think it's a stretch to imagine that the gossip got so out of hand that grad school admins are basing their decisions on it -- I really can't imagine the admins I know doing anything of the sort.

[graduate33]

Thanks for your response Cup o' Joe.

 

I haven't scheduled a meeting with the prof. as of yet, I only tried to talk to her after class, and my impression was that she didn't want to speak to me at all. 

 

I'd like to think that I'm wrong about the trash talk, I really do, but things are so unclear right now that it could be more than just an impression. I guess that I'll know for sure within the next few days...

 

Right now, I'm trying my best to focus on my studies and finish this second semester as best as I can, then move on and forget about all of this... 

[fuzzylogician]

I haven't scheduled a meeting with the prof. as of yet, I only tried to talk to her after class, and my impression was that she didn't want to speak to me at all. 

 

I'd like to think that I'm wrong about the trash talk, I really do, but things are so unclear right now that it could be more than just an impression. I guess that I'll know for sure within the next few days...

Given this state of affairs, I'd propose trying to schedule a time to talk to the professor at her convenience. I know that when I teach, sometimes I have another class or appointment right after class so I can't stick around to talk to my students even if they are waiting there for me. It's nothing personal, but the time right before/after class is not necessarily free time that students can just assume they can take up.

As for the trash talk, I don't understand how you'll know in a few days. Are you going to draw a correlation between the admin decision and this potential trash talk? Is it not possible that this decision (whatever it turns out to be, and I hope it goes your way!) will be based on factors other than gossip?

[asdfx3]

I agree with Fuzzy. Unless there are a number of details you're leaving out you seem to be reading too much into things. Also, I doubt the professor really cares that much about the dropped class. The flirting would be the issue and source of the trash talk, but more likely he's cold towards you because he realized (either upon personal reflection or prodding from someone else) how inappropriate and professionally dangerous his actions were.

[graduate33]

@Fuzzy: I guess that I could do that and see what happens.

Re: trash talk and admin decision, yes I'd draw correlation between the two, but again, I'd love to be proved otherwise, so I'm being patient.

 

@asdfx3: me too, I thought that it wouldn't be a big deal to drop it (I'm a student after all, and that's what students do sometimes) but he has literally stopped talking to me from that moment on. Before that, there would be communication in person or email.

 

At this stage, the best thing to do is letting go as there's not much I can do, unfortunately. I really need to focus on my readings...

 

Thanks for your sound advice, I really appreciate it! 

[Zorah]

You have jump to so many conclusions. I doubt you have any data at to support your findings. There is no reason a professor would care enough that you dropped his/her course. They get the same salary whether you are in their class or not. The world is not revolving around you. Leave it alone and move on. You're wasting your time thinking about this.

Edited March 13, 2013 by Zorah

[Andean Pat]

I agree with many things said. I understand that being a foreigner is more exciting and you probably did not realize that you were wrongdoing. I also sense that there is some exaggeration in your reaction (do not worry, we are girls and we overreact sometimes) so be careful not to see ghosts everywhere. Besides, you are leaving later on. However, as you've said, you are both adults. If you feel you should talk to this man, go to his office, knock on his door and tell him that he inspired you but you feel things are awkward. If he takes it the wrong way, he is the child. 

[IRToni]

Seriously? "we are girls and we overreact sometimes"? I am a girl and I feel totally insulted by that. WTF?

 

Back on-topic: I really think the OP is reading too much into all of this, TBH. I will say that your behavior seems really unprofessional, both in flirting with him (doesn't matter whether he's married or not, flirting with a prof is always a bad idea), and in asking for a seat in his class, and then dropping it. I would be pissed if one of my students did that, because it is additional work for him to enroll you in his class, esp. if you're from another department. Not to mention the fact that you then didn't even bother to officially drop his class, creating additional work for him and the secretary. Regarding the syllabus: Couldn't you have gotten your hands on it from another student? That's what we do, in order to not bother our professors etc. with trivial crap, and in order to actually get a feel for the class...

 

Regarding all these other events that you chalk up to this professor: 1. If he actually is less than 10 years your senior, I highly doubt his word carries enough weight to influence admin decsions etc. At my unis, oral enthusiastic responses, followed by a written "we'll have to think about it/check/confirm" are completely normal, and more than once ended with a "Sorry, we can't do it". Also, taking into account the fact that most Americans I have met are a lot more enthusiastic, outgoing and positive in the first place, and thereby often phrase things in a way that would be a sure thing for me, as a European, but isn't for them, I really don't think you'll be able to infer anything from their positive or negative response.

2. Regarding the other professor: schedule a meeting or go to her office hours! If she still ignores you there, you might have grounds to complain, though I would highly advise against bringing up your issue with the other professor, because you're basically accusing her of being unprofessional there.

 

As a future course of action, I would advise you to let it go, chalk it up as a learning and growing experience for you as a person (and student), and be more careful in the future. I also wouldn't try to talks to the professor anymore. He's made it abundantly clear he has no interest in talking to you, you guys don't currently have any sort of involvement that would require contact ( as in, you're not in his class etc.), so just let it go, be happy that you were able to drop his class (which is not a given).

 

Hope this helps!

[graduate33]

thanks for your responses, I really appreciate it!

 

@ Zorah: maybe I did jump to conclusions, although my instincts tell me something was going on--and I do know that all and everything do not revolve around me! This whole situation really annoyed me; I'm new there and professors talk to each others, especially when they're in the same field. 

 

@ Pat:I leave it alone for now but if something weird comes up well I will have to say something, obviously.

 

@IRtoni: he started the flirting, I would have never initiate that, I mean we're not on equal grounds! I've never flirt with a professor before--they're off limit--but with him I thought it was different... I thought that he would never do that if he wasn't seriously interested in me. So HE was unprofessional in the first place because he crossed a boundary with me and he's aware of that. It took him 3 months to tell me he was married...

Registration is pretty easy in the university where I currently study: professors do nothing but agreeing to accept me in their course, I then have to email it to the registrar who takes care of enrolling me.

I didn't know anybody in his class beforehand (I'm new here) so there was no way to get the syllabus from someone else. To officially drop a class, the prof. needs to send a confirmation email (2 lines) to the registrar. So all in all, it's not that big a deal for them.

I dropped the class before attending it, explaining the reason for my choice, I don't think it's unprofessional at all but rather wise. Should he needed more info about my decision, he could have asked me, instead of just ignoring me. That's too easy a solution that only satisfies him because it implies that I do not have my say in this story and that what he says/thinks/whatever is more important than what I say/think/whatever. His behavior is pretty childish in my opinion. 

I'm also annoyed because before this story, I talked to him about applying for a phd into his department next fall and he vividly encouraged me but now my chances  of getting in are blown (even though I had no guarantee, at least the bridge wasn't burnt) . Who is unprofessional here?

 

 

Again, this story is not a big deal, I'm only disappointed that things had to go this way--it was not necessary.

[selecttext]

your disappointment is one big denial

[graduate33]

@selecttext: do you mean that considering what has happened I shouldn't feel disappointed at all but glad that he's now out of my life?

Edited March 17, 2013 by graduate33

[Andean Pat]

thanks for your responses, I really appreciate it!

 

@ Zorah: maybe I did jump to conclusions, although my instincts tell me something was going on--and I do know that all and everything do not revolve around me! This whole situation really annoyed me; I'm new there and professors talk to each others, especially when they're in the same field. 

 

@ Pat:I leave it alone for now but if something weird comes up well I will have to say something, obviously.

 

@IRtoni: he started the flirting, I would have never initiate that, I mean we're not on equal grounds! I've never flirt with a professor before--they're off limit--but with him I thought it was different... I thought that he would never do that if he wasn't seriously interested in me. So HE was unprofessional in the first place because he crossed a boundary with me and he's aware of that. It took him 3 months to tell me he was married...

Registration is pretty easy in the university where I currently study: professors do nothing but agreeing to accept me in their course, I then have to email it to the registrar who takes care of enrolling me.

I didn't know anybody in his class beforehand (I'm new here) so there was no way to get the syllabus from someone else. To officially drop a class, the prof. needs to send a confirmation email (2 lines) to the registrar. So all in all, it's not that big a deal for them.

I dropped the class before attending it, explaining the reason for my choice, I don't think it's unprofessional at all but rather wise. Should he needed more info about my decision, he could have asked me, instead of just ignoring me. That's too easy a solution that only satisfies him because it implies that I do not have my say in this story and that what he says/thinks/whatever is more important than what I say/think/whatever. His behavior is pretty childish in my opinion. 

I'm also annoyed because before this story, I talked to him about applying for a phd into his department next fall and he vividly encouraged me but now my chances  of getting in are blown (even though I had no guarantee, at least the bridge wasn't burnt) . Who is unprofessional here?

 

 

Again, this story is not a big deal, I'm only disappointed that things had to go this way--it was not necessary.

 

Absolutely!!! Relax and take it easy  

[selecttext]

@selecttext: do you mean that considering what has happened I shouldn't feel disappointed at all but glad that he's now out of my life?

 

 

No, you are in denial about your role in the situation.

[graduate33]

No, you are in denial about your role in the situation.

ok.

 

I actually had to deal with him the other day because of an enrollment mistake in his department; he is the dgs. He was very kind and sorted things out with me and the graduate coordinator promptly. I took it that that he didn't hold any grudge against me anymore but then he sent my this random email mentioning the fact that I dropped his class a few months ago (as if he felt humiliated, and this he can't forgive), out of the blue. I explained why but it looks like he's now acting cold again. I asked if he wanted to have lunch before I leave town; he didn't even get back to me. I'm pissed because he was so nice the last time I spoke with him, I thought that even if we're parting ways we could have at least part in good terms.

Now, I know it's time to let go for good but I would like to ask him face to face why he acted like such an a** with me although I apologized twice...

I need to know. Do you think it's a good idea?

[fuzzylogician]

Now, I know it's time to let go for good but I would like to ask him face to face why he acted like such an a** with me although I apologized twice...

I need to know. Do you think it's a good idea?

 

No. Of course it's not a good idea. He was professional and did his job when he needed to (DGS business) but clearly wants nothing more to do with you. You should leave it at that and walk away.

[ANDS!]

ok.

 

I actually had to deal with him the other day because of an enrollment mistake in his department; he is the dgs. He was very kind and sorted things out with me and the graduate coordinator promptly. I took it that that he didn't hold any grudge against me anymore but then he sent my this random email mentioning the fact that I dropped his class a few months ago (as if he felt humiliated, and this he can't forgive), out of the blue. I explained why but it looks like he's now acting cold again. I asked if he wanted to have lunch before I leave town; he didn't even get back to me. I'm pissed because he was so nice the last time I spoke with him, I thought that even if we're parting ways we could have at least part in good terms.

Now, I know it's time to let go for good but I would like to ask him face to face why he acted like such an a** with me although I apologized twice...

I need to know. Do you think it's a good idea?

 

 

I saw go for it.  If for no other reason so that you can come back here and let us know what awkwardness went down because this read has been solid-gold.

[graduate33]

No. Of course it's not a good idea. He was professional and did his job when he needed to (DGS business) but clearly wants nothing more to do with you. You should leave it at that and walk away.

It indeed seems to be the way to go...

[graduate33]

I saw go for it.  If for no other reason so that you can come back here and let us know what awkwardness went down because this read has been solid-gold.

Haha! It can read like a bizarre thread but the situation was very uncomfortable in the beginning, I'm feeling much better about it now.

Talking about awkwardness, would you believe me if I say that it looks like he froze my blackboard access to his course (yeah, I asked to stay enrolled on bb even if I dropped the class, so that I could read the articles that interested me) when I asked more info on a topic that could be relevant to my research, it happened toward the end of the semester...this is how far it goes. It doesn't make sense to grant me access than deny it when I want to know more about something...just to annoy me, I guess.

Edited May 5, 2013 by graduate33

[ANDS!]

I'm not sure why you're taking the internets advice on something that probably has more subtle context than can be translated over a thread on TGC.  If you want closure go for closure - not about him.  It's about you.

[Arrowfletch]

No. Of course it's not a good idea. He was professional and did his job when he needed to (DGS business) but clearly wants nothing more to do with you. You should leave it at that and walk away.

Agreed, I would suggest you just leave him be.  Before, when you were trying to enroll in his class, he had reason to communicate with you.  Since you dropped it, he no longer does.

 

And with regards to how he may feel about you dropping that class: even if it doesn't create a lot of work for him, he still took the time to consider what you were asking, and was placing trust in your assurance that you could handle it.  Choosing to drop the course before even starting it is telling him that maybe you were not taking the possibility seriously after all, and likely did lower his opinion of you academically.  He was probably just trying to clear that up with his later email, and see if that reflected your usual attitude toward your academics (that you might ask for something and then say no thanks when it's given).  If you are pursuing something in his department, he probably feels that is an important thing to know about you.  There doesn't have to be anything personal about it.

 

Edit regarding BlackBoard: Isn't that how blackboard works, though?  You have to officially drop a class or it will go on your record as a fail, and once you drop it officially you're taken off the class roster and lose access to the page.  At least, that's how it has always worked in my experience.

Edited May 6, 2013 by Arrowfletch

[graduate33]

@Machiato: thanks for your comment.

 

@Arrowfletch: it makes sense.

Re:blackboard, when you officially drop a class, you can ask the instructor to keep you enrolled as a guest; which I did. I thus had access to the course material (and received all email communications) well after that, until I asked for some clarification on an topic which he never answered--from that moment on there was no articles posted on the bb site (or email updates) for this course anymore...

Edited May 7, 2013 by graduate33

[memyselfandcoffee]

hi i was going to post, but what i wanted to say seemed to harsh, so I deleted it.

but here are some questions to ask yourself:

why do you think this man owes you something?

what do you want from him?

why do you think he is somehow obliged to do anything over and above fulfil his professional obligations towards you- which he has?

what reason do you have to make further contact? what do you expect to come of it?

good luck

Edited May 7, 2013 by elise123