Welcome to the 2013-2014 Cycle

[PoliSwede]

To Rainbow 0121: I am now doing research to find the best "fit" of program/faculty and my interests. I also discuss with my undergrad professors who are really helpful in narrowing down my list. Also, I guess it's not too early to inquire LOR candidates about their willingness to write? My reasoning is that professors might be busy once the semester starts they will have more reason to decline.

Definitely not too early. My personal preference was to do it in person, but I guess emails work as well.

[ThisGuyRiteHere]

In terms of the waitlisting, I have been told not to apply to the same school again unless there has been a substantial difference in your application (better test scores, better LOR's, New SOP, etc.)

[phdhope2013]

In terms of the waitlisting, I have been told not to apply to the same school again unless there has been a substantial difference in your application (better test scores, better LOR's, New SOP, etc.)

 

Obviously you want a new SOP, "better LOR's" - unless you have the luxury of reading them, then I don't know what you mean by this...

 

I think one should apply to a school again (whether wait-listed or rejected) even if your test scores have not improved or only slightly improved. There are several people in this forum who went through a second cycle that already had very high GRE scores. 

As several faculty here have said already, each admissions committee is different and weighs various parts of an application differently. Having said that, I do not know how differently admissions committees are composed each year. If someone was on the committee one year, do they serve again the following year? 

Edited May 24, 2013 by phdhope2013

[IRToni]

I have a question regarding the GRE: I took the GRE a year ago for my M.A. applications, and just looked up that my percentiles got adjusted down to 93 for verbal, 94 for quant, and 96 for writing. Now, since I have to send the scores to a number of institutions, I would only be losing about 90 US$ if I retook it. Do you think it would be worth it, or should I just be happy with my scores and shut up?

 

Regarding preparation:

I am mainly finishing up my classes, and thinking about my SOP, I contacted some LOR writers, I'm trying to work up the nerve to actually write an email to a couple of profs I'd be interested in working with. Since I'm applying in Europe as well, I have to write a longish proposal, so I'm currently writing a term paper on an aspect of the topic that I want to explore in my PhD, and will then do some more research to get a good proposal going.

[jazzrap]

I have a question regarding the GRE: I took the GRE a year ago for my M.A. applications, and just looked up that my percentiles got adjusted down to 93 for verbal, 94 for quant, and 96 for writing. Now, since I have to send the scores to a number of institutions, I would only be losing about 90 US$ if I retook it. Do you think it would be worth it, or should I just be happy with my scores and shut up?

 

Regarding preparation:

I am mainly finishing up my classes, and thinking about my SOP, I contacted some LOR writers, I'm trying to work up the nerve to actually write an email to a couple of profs I'd be interested in working with. Since I'm applying in Europe as well, I have to write a longish proposal, so I'm currently writing a term paper on an aspect of the topic that I want to explore in my PhD, and will then do some more research to get a good proposal going.

I think your GRE is good enough. If you bother to take a brief look at the average score of admitted students in a few top schools in America, you will know that your score is above the average (or a lot above the average). If you want to get a even better score, the cost is not only 90$, but around two weeks of dedicated preparation. Given that you have to write SOP, contact letter writers, and approach scholars in your targeted schools, you might wanna stick to this old score and save time for these things.

 

My personal view on GRE is that 320 (provided that you have 160 for both) is a line everyone needs to pass. Then, 329-330 is another line. If you pass that line, you will be considered "competitive". 336+ is another line. If you pass 336+, you are in great shape even in competing at Stanford or Harvard. However, anywhere between 330 and 336, IMO, is not going to make much difference. Do note that this is my personal opinion.

 

The question is: are you going to get 336+ without much preparation? 

[chaetzli]

My personal view on GRE is that 320 (provided that you have 160 for both) is a line everyone needs to pass. Then, 329-330 is another line. If you pass that line, you will be considered "competitive". 336+ is another line. If you pass 336+, you are in great shape even in competing at Stanford or Harvard.

 

This is ridiculously high. I had 324 and got into a top 5. You don’t need a GRE score >330 - even for the best schools! Just look at Princeton’s averages:

http://www.princeton.edu/pub/profile/admission/graduate/

[Rainbow0121]

My personal view on GRE is that 320 (provided that you have 160 for both) is a line everyone needs to pass. Then, 329-330 is another line. If you pass that line, you will be considered "competitive". 336+ is another line. If you pass 336+, you are in great shape even in competing at Stanford or Harvard. However, anywhere between 330 and 336, IMO, is not going to make much difference. Do note that this is my personal opinion.

 

I would agree with chaetzli that these estimates a quite high. From what I've seen floating around 320 is a very solid score to be applying to any of the top schools with and even lower scores are often seen as acceptable.

 

In terms of retaking your GRE if you feel you have ample time and will boost your score then its worth it, if not I wouldn't fret too much, GRE scores are only one small portion of your overall application, perhaps your time would be better spent drafting a sparkingly SOP

 

Good luck!

Edited May 24, 2013 by Rainbow0121

[polisci12345]

From BFB in the faculty perspectives thread:

[Quigley]

I agree with chaetzli. In my case, I had respectable scores and in retrospect, a weak SOP.  Finding a strong research fit and making a compelling case for yourself will be a lot more important for your application (and a much more effective use of your time) than trying to get an extra couple of points on your GREs.

 

I'm very happy with the top-15 that I'll be attending, but I was rejected by all five top-10 programs that I applied to and my combined score was 165v/162q/5.5.   Certainly not mind-blowing scores, but good enough not to keep me out if the other factors lined up in my favor.

[IRToni]

Ok, thanks for your input. Guess I was just blown away that they want 25 US$ for sending one score. Monopoly at work :-(. I'll have to repeat the TOEFL, though, stupid two-year rule.

 

How are y'all structuring your statements? Since I applied to MAs two years ago, I still have those statements, but at the same time, I'm not sure how to structure a statement for the PhD.

 

Aside from that, I'm currently trying to figure out what to hand in in terms of my writing sample. Do you think it makes sense to hand in my undergrad thesis, or one of my grad seminar papers? Also, is it legitimate to rework/revise stuff before handing it in or do you have to hand in a piece of writing the way you originally submitted it?

[Quigley]

I spent about 3 weeks revising my undergrad thesis before submitting it with my applications.

[PoliSwede]

Ok, thanks for your input. Guess I was just blown away that they want 25 US$ for sending one score. Monopoly at work :-(. I'll have to repeat the TOEFL, though, stupid two-year rule.

 

How are y'all structuring your statements? Since I applied to MAs two years ago, I still have those statements, but at the same time, I'm not sure how to structure a statement for the PhD.

 

Aside from that, I'm currently trying to figure out what to hand in in terms of my writing sample. Do you think it makes sense to hand in my undergrad thesis, or one of my grad seminar papers? Also, is it legitimate to rework/revise stuff before handing it in or do you have to hand in a piece of writing the way you originally submitted it?

 

I had to retake the TOEFL as well after my MA. It's a real pain. Not because it's hard, but because it's such a waste of time and money...

 

If you read some of BFB's posts, you will get some guidance on how to set up your SOP. In the "results"-thread you can find some examples (or obtain examples via PM). One thing that sticks out to me when it comes to SOPs is that you want to send as many clear signals as possible that tells the adcom that you are a good bet (that you know what grad school is about, that you have thought of the subfield you want to enter and at least have a potential research agenda, and so forth). One of the reasons I wasn't admitted to OSU was my SOP (BFB said that my application had mixed reactions from faculty members because I sent blurry signals).

 

As for your writing sample, keep in mind that the length probably will vary across programs. For some programs I was to just take one of my better (best) seminar papers from my MA program. Other programs wanted shorter samples and forced me to improvise a bit.

 

You can modify your writing sample however you want.

[silver_lining]

This may be an odd question, but for the SOP, is it acceptable to pose a question in an area that has received very little attention academically (however, I am sure that many people would be interested in it)? Also, would it be going overboard if I included charts and such? 

[jazzrap]

This is ridiculously high. I had 324 and got into a top 5. You don’t need a GRE score >330 - even for the best schools! Just look at Princeton’s averages:

http://www.princeton.edu/pub/profile/admission/graduate/

Chaetzli, 

 

Yes, 330 does seem high, and congrats on getting into a top 5. My own problem is simply that most of the folks I know or know of personally get scores higher than 330. I am well aware that a lot of top 25 programs don't require high score and the average score of admitted students is below 330, but I still feel a bit scared given that almost everyone I know or know of (except you, now) has score higher than that. Plus, I wonder if you have many math courses on the transcript. For me, I don't have that many and my GPA is barely a 3.7, which could be 3.8 if the ranking of my undergraduate univ is adjusted I hope. Therefore, I need to have 330 to feel secure applying. 

 

I wonder if you mind posting your SOP here or I can PM you for the SOP? Thank you!

[IRToni]

I'm not sure how much we can actually infer from the average here. *Geek mode on*

 

For the social sciences, e.g. we have an average of 164 for verbal. However, this means that there's only 6 points that you above, but 34 below. This mathematically means that it's likely that some outliers with very low scores (in relation to the average, obviously) are pulling the average down by a lot, wheras there's more people with higher scores. Intuitively, it would thus make sense that the median is higher than 164, which is a little scary to me.

[jazzrap]

I'm not sure how much we can actually infer from the average here. *Geek mode on*

 

For the social sciences, e.g. we have an average of 164 for verbal. However, this means that there's only 6 points that you above, but 34 below. This mathematically means that it's likely that some outliers with very low scores (in relation to the average, obviously) are pulling the average down by a lot, wheras there's more people with higher scores. Intuitively, it would thus make sense that the median is higher than 164, which is a little scary to me.

Are you a native speaker? If not, you should not worry about the verbal too much. I focus on getting a good total score and analyzing average score for students admitted to top schools only by adding the average verbal and average quantitative. 

[NBM]

Not sure if anyone has shared this foreign policy article ("So you want to get into a political science Ph.D. program") before, but that looks like sensible advice. Oh, and maybe this as well, if you've been out of school for a while.

 

Good luck guys!

[Orlien]

RE: writing sample

 

idk, I'm just using a term paper that I wrote for a poli sci class. How long are they generally supposed to be?

[eponine997]

RE: writing sample

 

idk, I'm just using a term paper that I wrote for a poli sci class. How long are they generally supposed to be?

Different programs have different length expectations.  Some ask for 15-20 pages (or two shorter papers if you don't have anything that long), some ask for no more than 6 pages.  For the programs with longer requirements, I used a seminar paper that was sort of okay in my opinion (good, not great) because it was the most recent, I didn't have enough of my thesis written to use chapters from that, and one of my recommenders encouraged me to use it.  For programs with shorter requirements, I used my (then) crappy thesis introduction - funny enough this got me the best reaction (they specifically told me so) because it demonstrated fit both methodologically and topically with the program I was applying to by showing what sort of questions I was interested in and my knowledge of the relevant literature.  It wasn't until after applications were submitted that my methods and research design became more sophisticated, and my introduction became more clear (so I was surprised a program commented on the quality of my writing sample when I thought it sucked), but such is life.  

 

If you can, try to pick a writing sample that demonstrates your fit within the program and your knowledge/interest in the topics you want to explore in graduate school.  A friend of mine (who was not in school at the time of her applications, and not a poli sci major) actually wrote a paper on her own to use as her writing sample - it paid VERY high dividends for her.  Some programs weigh the writing sample more heavily than others, but there is no reason not to give yourself every advantage possible.  

[Zahar Berkut]

If you can, try to pick a writing sample that demonstrates your fit within the program and your knowledge/interest in the topics you want to explore in graduate school.  A friend of mine (who was not in school at the time of her applications, and not a poli sci major) actually wrote a paper on her own to use as her writing sample - it paid VERY high dividends for her.  Some programs weigh the writing sample more heavily than others, but there is no reason not to give yourself every advantage possible.  

 

You raise an interesting issue here. I don't think I've ever heard that I should specifically target a writing sample to a department's "fit." Of course it's better to have a sample within your subfield or theme of interest, but the idea of a highly targeted sample up to and including a completely new paper raises some questions for me.

 

Can anyone else comment on this?

 

Shameless solicitation: I'm wrestling with my writing sample right now myself. I wrote my undergraduate "thesis" in theory, and produced one long master's paper on a topic that comes closer to what would be my PhD interests, but which was meant to deal with public policy issues I probably won't address again. I don't have any paper targeted to what exactly I want to do because what I want to do has evolved with time and reflection, though I could point to either as a stepping stone to where I am.

[carlls]

You raise an interesting issue here. I don't think I've ever heard that I should specifically target a writing sample to a department's "fit." Of course it's better to have a sample within your subfield or theme of interest, but the idea of a highly targeted sample up to and including a completely new paper raises some questions for me.

 

Can anyone else comment on this?

 

I think it definitely works differently from one program to another. Similar to eponine997's post, an MIT professor visited our school and said that writing sample should be no more than 4 or 5 pages because the committee members wouldn't really have time to scrutinize it. 

[eponine997]

Thanks for this, but I have a question. My MA thesis is a very niche topic in IR, but I have no intention of entirely continuing down that path. Does this mean that I should send in different writing samples according to what dominates at each particular school (i.e. liberalism, constructivism, etc.)? I have an idea of what I want to do, but at the same time I always felt that ones position on issues can only be developed when one is actually in a PhD program. I guess each committee weighs each part of an application differently...

 

Hmmm, I feel it would be imprudent to go into more detail of my personal experience with this (as my situation is atypical).  I would stress that your level of fit at each school MAY be evaluated based on your writing sample (that is to say that it also may not).  This doesn't necessarily mean that you should (in overly simplistic terms) submit a writing sample based on a constructivist approach just because the faculty at the institution of interest tend to favor that approach.  Instead, if you notice your methodology or approach differs considerably from the faculty at that institution reconsider if it is some place you really want to spend the next 5 years of your life: will these people be interested in your research?  enough so that they'd be willing to assist you on the academic job market?  enough so that they'd be willing to coauthor with you? (etc.)  Is there some other similarly ranked school where you are, in terms of methodology or approach, a better fit? 

 

To address your last point, yes, interest often do change in grad school (my interests certainly did with respect to my MA program).  Adcoms know this.  And you might be totally fine submitting a random writing sample and explaining your fit and/or your specific interests in your SoP (n=1 is not significant, so take my .02 FWIW).  However, if your PhD-level interest differ considerably from what you wrote your MA thesis on or what you've done in the past, you'll want to tell a story in your SoP of why your interests shifted.  "blah blah after examining this question with such-and-such approach, I realized the methodological limitations, which led me to explore X, which I would like to further study based on blah blah literature from POI at your institution" (but, obviously, don't say it like that).  In my experience it won't help you if they think you are you telling them what they want to hear rather than what you truly want to study (e.g. "I want to study X and it makes sense for me to go to your institution because profs. A, B, and C also study X"  when all your previous work has been related to Y.)

 

You raise an interesting issue here. I don't think I've ever heard that I should specifically target a writing sample to a department's "fit." Of course it's better to have a sample within your subfield or theme of interest, but the idea of a highly targeted sample up to and including a completely new paper raises some questions for me.

 

Can anyone else comment on this?

 

Shameless solicitation: I'm wrestling with my writing sample right now myself. I wrote my undergraduate "thesis" in theory, and produced one long master's paper on a topic that comes closer to what would be my PhD interests, but which was meant to deal with public policy issues I probably won't address again. I don't have any paper targeted to what exactly I want to do because what I want to do has evolved with time and reflection, though I could point to either as a stepping stone to where I am.

To reiterate what I said before, rather than targeting your writing samples and SoPs to specific institutions and their faculty/approaches (though with SoPs you should do this, IMO) you should select the schools to which you apply based on fit (where you have common ground with faculty research interests/methods and can demonstrate this).  If your interests are somewhat divided, then yes, use two writing samples and make larger adjustments on your SOP for each school or set of schools.  As a frequent and reputable poster on this forum advised me: in some cases you will be trying to demonstrate your allegiance to a specific method or topic, other times you will be framing yourself as an area specialist.  

 

Don't misunderstand me.  You MIGHT be fine with a generic poli sci writing sample unrelated to your interests that just demonstrates that you are brilliant.  But in my mind, you are trying to get the adcom member interested with a hook "wow, this person has a really interesting idea that I think so-and-so in our dept would really be interested in..."   The writing sample is an opportunity, you can bank on generic "brilliance" or you can use it to demonstrate your knowledge, interest and fit within the institution to which you are applying.  I recommend the latter if possible.  

[silver_lining]

Without going into detail about my thesis, I'm in the situation where my thesis allowed me to find a really exciting new topic (I think it is exciting....), so my original plan was to use that thesis then explain in my SOP how doing that work led me to my new topic. There will be a connection between my old and new topic, which will be discussed in my SOP (I've also taken relevant courses that supports my new topic and I have written seminar papers on the broader issue). I'm just not sure if that will suffice. I really can't stick with my thesis topic as only 2 people in the US would actually be interested in it and both just graduated (when I said "niche" I really meant it). 

Edited May 27, 2013 by luckyducky

[jazzrap]

Guys,

 

I have a related question. If I use in-text citation, am I allowed to omit reference page? I want to do this to save pages. Writing samples are usually 20 pages long at maximum. 

[IRToni]

In-text citations meaning Harvard (name and year in brackets)? If so, you can't leave out a reference page, since it's not at all clear (often, you'll have the same person writing two pieces in a year, or someone of the same surname writing a piece in the same year). Using footnote citations means you can leave out a reference page, I would say.