"a list of other schools that you are applying to is most helpful to the department, although it is not required"

[gradcafe26]

I saw this at the UNC website, and encountered similar questions on my school list while filing out online applications for other programs. Anyone has any idea why this information is "most helpful to the department"? Does it affect admission at all? Thanks a lot!

[Loric]

They're not supposed to, but they will "ding" someone who ranks them low on a list. "Well if they're not serious, we're not serious."

 

And it's useful to them for marketing purposes by seeing which schools they're considered competitive with.

 

They want to hit the sweet spot where they're making competitive offers but not getting surpassed by more prestigous programs, while maintaining some sort of "standards."  They can't not have people.

[Loric]

When you consider this, consider the number of people on Grad Cafe alone who say they're applying for 10 or more schools.

 

If the schools all accept someone.. and having limits, reject someone else.. that's 10 schools and only 1 is getting the student, while the other 9 are scrambling to either pull from the waitlist or actually backtrack and admit people they rejected. It happens all the time.

 

It's not a position anyone wants to be in.

[TheGnome]

I believe it was either Prof Braumoeller or Prof Nooruddin, who said in another thread that the OSU graduate school required the applicants to fill out that question, and that they did not care about it. That may not necessarily be representative of the application process elsewhere, but my best guess would be that the adcom members in other schools also view this issue the same way. 

[TakeMyCoffeeBlack]

I believe it was either Prof Braumoeller or Prof Nooruddin, who said in another thread that the OSU graduate school required the applicants to fill out that question, and that they did not care about it. That may not necessarily be representative of the application process elsewhere, but my best guess would be that the adcom members in other schools also view this issue the same way. 

 

My guess would be that it plays a bigger role for the Graduate School itself so they know with whom they're competing for applicants.

[Loric]

They are not supposed to care.. same with anything that indicates your race, gender, income level, etc... but it doesnt mean that they dont.

[CGMJ]

To echo the above, my sense is that in most cases this information is used by the graduate admissions office--not the department's admissions committee. This means that it should have no bearing on whether you are admitted, but is a helpful statistic for the school. I'm sure there have been exceptions to this, but in general I wouldn't worry about it.

Edited November 23, 2013 by CGMJ

[gradcafe26]

Thanks for all the inputs here. I can't agree with #7, because at least for UNC, they ask you to send your school list to the DEPT in a SEPARATE email. So it matters for the dept (thus admission?), but I just don't know how.

Let me divert the conversation a bit: suppose the school list does somehow affect admission, what is our optimal strategy?

For instance 10 schools on my school list, ordered by ranking: 1,2,3,4,X,5,6,7,8,9.

Program x asks for my school list, I should

a. ignore the question

b. give them the full list

c. something like 1,2,3,4,X

d. something like X,5,6,7,8

e. something like 3,4,X,5,6

f. ?

Edited November 24, 2013 by gradcafe26

[Loric]

Top 3 or 4, including that school and never listing it last. Top 5 if you're in a fairly large applicant pool with your degree.

 

If they're #1, of course list them as #1. No one wants to see their program as outside of the top 3.

[TheGnome]

How about 1,3,X,5,7 ?

[Loric]

You actually have them ranked in a strict order already for yourself..? Have you even set foot on these campuses?

[TheGnome]

You actually have them ranked in a strict order already for yourself..? Have you even set foot on these campuses?

 

[gradcafe26]

You actually have them ranked in a strict order already for yourself..? Have you even set foot on these campuses?

I was just ordering them according to program rankings available to the public, it says little about dept strength in my areas of interest.

[gradcafe26]

How about 1,3,X,5,7 ?

Why?

[Loric]

I was just ordering them according to program rankings available to the public, it says little about dept strength in my areas of interest.

 

Then my question would be why you're going through with all these applications and why they're on your "final" list in the first place. Schools can tell when you're just applying for the sake of applying. They do not look kindly on it. 

[TheGnome]

Why?

 

I did not mean it to be taken too seriously, but I guess my point was to give a sample of schools that you are applying to - one or two higher ranked, X, and one or two lower ranked.

 

Then my question would be why you're going through with all these applications and why they're on your "final" list in the first place. Schools can tell when you're just applying for the sake of applying. They do not look kindly on it. 

 

Loric, cut people some slack will you. No offense, but your tone sounds a bit accusatory. Anyone can have any set of reasons to consider which schools to apply, and can rank them in any way they like in their minds. If you have a suggestion for our friend here, I believe there are more amicable ways to drop your nuggets of wisdom.

 

Also, this issue is not nearly as important as much of the comments on this thread suggest.

[TakeMyCoffeeBlack]

Loric, cut people some slack will you. No offense, but your tone sounds a bit accusatory. Anyone can have any set of reasons to consider which schools to apply, and can rank them in any way they like in their minds. If you have a suggestion for our friend here, I believe there are more amicable ways to drop your nuggets of wisdom.

 

Loric doesn't much care for amicable conversation (). I don't even think Loric is a poli sci applicant, which makes this all the more interesting ().

[TakeMyCoffeeBlack]

You actually have them ranked in a strict order already for yourself..? Have you even set foot on these campuses?

 

I don't think having "set foot" on the campuses plays a very big role when it comes to earning your Ph.D. The campus could look like a nuclear site, but as long as it has the faculty and resources you need to accomplish your academic/career goals, then it doesn't matter. You can learn this information without travelling to the university physically - and in fact, a good portion of future Ph.D. students make the decision without first visiting.

[Loric]

I don't suppose you have the statistics on how often your suggested course of action actually had a good outcome for the student in question..? 

[Loric]

Loric doesn't much care for amicable conversation (). I don't even think Loric is a poli sci applicant, which makes this all the more interesting ().

 

I'll just point out that I've been accepted to more programs and offered more funding than you have, if you want to pull people's history into things as a means to belittle the advice they're giving. 

 

The goal here is getting in and getting funded, is it not? I offer sound advice for that. It is not presented in a manner to spare your feelings. 

[TakeMyCoffeeBlack]

I'll just point out that I've been accepted to more programs and offered more funding than you have, if you want to pull people's history into things as a means to belittle the advice they're giving. 

 

The goal here is getting in and getting funded, is it not? I offer sound advice for that. It is not presented in a manner to spare your feelings. 

 

You can do whatever you want, Loric. I'm certainly not looking for your approval. But you're the one who showed up and stirred the pot in a field into which you're not even applying.

[gradcafe26]

Any other suggestions? I'm sure it would be helpful to many applicants this year.

Suppose the school list does somehow affect admission, what is our optimal strategy?

For instance 10 schools on my school list, ordered by ranking: 1,2,3,4,X,5,6,7,8,9.

Program x asks for my school list, I should

a. ignore the question

b. give them the full list

c. something like 1,2,3,4,X

d. something like X,5,6,7,8

e. something like 3,4,X,5,6

f. (from TheGnome) a sample of schools that you are applying to - one or two higher ranked, X, and one or two lower ranked.

g. ???

[TakeMyCoffeeBlack]

Any other suggestions? I'm sure it would be helpful to many applicants this year.

Suppose the school list does somehow affect admission, what is our optimal strategy?

For instance 10 schools on my school list, ordered by ranking: 1,2,3,4,X,5,6,7,8,9.

Program x asks for my school list, I should

a. ignore the question

b. give them the full list

c. something like 1,2,3,4,X

d. something like X,5,6,7,8

e. something like 3,4,X,5,6

f. (from TheGnome) a sample of schools that you are applying to - one or two higher ranked, X, and one or two lower ranked.

g. ???

 

I wouldn't read too much into it, but I think in general you're going to want to name peer schools, not schools way above or way below. So if you're applying to a school in the top 10, name the schools closest in ranking to that. If you're applying to a school in the top 50 and you're applying to a range of schools between 30-70, then name those.

 

But again, it's one of the less substantial pieces of information, I'd think. If you're only applying to 5 schools, then name the schools you're applying to regardless of who's asking.

[TheGnome]

I am happy for you Loric, congratulations. I hope those acceptances worked out for you very well. As for your advice - I do not think it is as sound as you think it is. Don't get me wrong though, nobody's advice is the gold standard. The process has a colossal stochastic component to it, therefore your advice would be absolutely reliable only if you were in the admissions committee of every single polisci department. Further, the admission process can vary dramatically from school to school for the same field - so I am not even commenting on the additional error introduced by comparing across fields. This should ideally have a bit of a humbling effect on the participants of this forum, and we should be more used to speaking in probabilistic terms.

 

This is missing the main point though. I imagine both gradcafe26 and others, including me and TMCB, welcome your advice. Please do not feel discouraged to share with us what you know and think. However, it is very important to sustain a friendly and helpful conversation for this forum to work the way it did in the past -I don't know how many- years. People who are applying to graduate schools are adults, whether they are applying straight from undergrad or not. There is a normative expectation that we treat each other as friends and peers. Therefore, condescending and patronizing attitudes are not very productive. An example to that is this: 

 

 I offer sound advice for that. It is not presented in a manner to spare your feelings. 

 

Obviously, if you want to continue this attitude, there are other, more fitting venues for you in our discipline as well. I would especially recommend this website: http://www.poliscirumors.com/

[TakeMyCoffeeBlack]

This is missing the main point though. I imagine both gradcafe26 and others, including me and TMCB, welcome your advice. Please do not feel discouraged to share with us what you know and think. However, it is very important to sustain a friendly and helpful conversation for this forum to work the way it did in the past -I don't know how many- years. People who are applying to graduate schools are adults, whether they are applying straight from undergrad or not. There is a normative expectation that we treat each other as friends and peers. 

+1

 

And lol poli sci job rumors...