would you....?

[bsharpe269]

For those people saying that if a relationship is meant to be then it it will be so screw compromising... thats not how life works.

 

Do you think that if a phd program is meant to be then it will happen so you can stop actively working at it during undergrad? No...

 

Relationships dont just magically work out for no reason. They take work, lots of it, and lots of compromise.

 

Communication and compromise are key. It is not hard to compromise and it does not require sacrificing your dreams. I made a list of the phd programs where I could get the education I need to acheive my goals. My partner crossed off the schools that are in locations that would prevent him from acheiving his own goals. I am applying to rest of the schools... all of the schools/locations would be amazing opportunities for both me AND him.

 

No one's dreams are sacrificed in this situation. Both partners are happy and compromise. This is how relationships work. They don't just magically come together. If you aren't willing to compromise with a partner then you have a really loney road ahead of you...

[LittleDarlings]

More than likely yes.

I think that's pretty expected from me though. If I had a SO who said that I had to pick him, marriage and babies or school... I would likely try to compromise (whatever that entails) but I would lean towards the family life. School will forever be around but if you find someone who loves you and wants a family that might not last. I think you can have both but in my current mental space I would pick the guy.

Edited April 8, 2014 by LittleDarlings

[dstock]

perfectly said bsharpe

[Spinosaurus]

No. Sacrifice is not a good base for a relationship.

[Torque]

I am sort of in that situation.  My girlfriend and I got into the top programs for our fields, mine in Southern California and hers in Boston. My family told me, and her family told her, that a solid relationship is more important than the career, and having someone that is marriage potential will be a lifelong investment that will provide more happiness and that isn't worth the risk of losing over a career or education.

 

We both got into the top schools for our respective fields, and we both decided to go to our schools and continue our relationship in long distance.  I don't think we will sacrifice each other, but we definitely chose schools above our relationship.  In my mind, selecting the right school is placing my partner as a top priority because I think of my girlfriend benefiting from the opportunities that I will get from completing school.

 

I think if it really came down to it, black or white as posed in the OP, I would pick a relationship over a career or schooling.

Edited April 8, 2014 by Torque

[maelia8]

My family told me, and her family told her, that a solid relationship is more important than the career, and having someone that is marriage potential will be a lifelong investment that will provide more happiness and that isn't worth the risk of losing over a career or education.

 

 

I have a really hard time hearing statements like this because based on my experience, the exact opposite is true: a career is a lifelong investment that will stay with you no matter what, while a relationship that might seem really important right now might fail (for various reasons) and leave you regretting all of the time and sacrifice that you invested in it. I have too many friends who've made cross-country moves, quit jobs, dropped out of school, sold houses, or given up on other dreams to be with "the one," only to have that relationship end within the next couple of years, leaving them regretting that choice. My mother quit college at 19 to get married to her first husband, and my father turned down an offer at his dream university to go to a closer, lower-ranked institution because of a relationship that quickly became toxic and miserable. Both of them regretted these decisions deeply and always told me that while you're young, the best thing to invest in is yourself, not another person, and I believe them. You can always commit to someone later, but you can never go back and rebuild your professional background. 

 

 

School will forever be around but if you find someone who loves you and wants a family that might not last.

 

Yes, school will always be around, but the later you start it, the later you will engaged in getting your degree and the less professional experience you will have by the time you reach an age when it's better to be well-established in your chosen field. That relationship with the person who loves you and wants a family right now might not last (which is a risk that you have to take when you choose get involved) but if you go to school and get a degree or qualification, that degree is never going to leave your life.

 

Communication and compromise are key. It is not hard to compromise and it does not require sacrificing your dreams.

 

I guess the question here is really, "What are you willing to compromise on?" Maybe a compromise that for one person might seem really worth it is for another person absolutely unthinkable. Sometimes compromise can be easy; sometimes compromise can be hard. If you want your relationship to work in the long run, you have to find somebody who has similar ideas about compromise as you do, because otherwise there will end up being a lot of resentment and guilt between the partners. I think that each partner has the right to have some things that they are unwilling to compromise on (for example, their education), and if the other partner does not agree with these things, then the relationship was simply not meant to be. 

[pearspears]

You would grow to resent him and probably divorce him and be middle aged and no longer young and able to follow your dreams the way you can now. So no. Don't do it.

[LittleDarlings]

 

 

Yes, school will always be around, but the later you start it, the later you will engaged in getting your degree and the less professional experience you will have by the time you reach an age when it's better to be well-established in your chosen field. That relationship with the person who loves you and wants a family right now might not last (which is a risk that you have to take when you choose get involved) but if you go to school and get a degree or qualification, that degree is never going to leave

That's true. I mean I can't imagine staying army current job for forever just to be married. I also can't imagine not going back to school (probably because the picture is slowly coming together) but idk I mean I can't see ever being in a position where someone would make me pick between school or them. I don't think I would resent them if they did I mean I want the family life, I want a career too but you know people do it all the time where they start families first and then go back to school. Of course it's difficult but you just have to be dedicated. My therapist did it and her life seems awesome. I think having the family foundation would be better than the professional one, but at the same time what I am going back to school for is kind of like... Life experience is important so there are people in the program I'm sure who picked family first over school, then I'm sure there are people like me who went straight from school to school to more school. Idk I mean I like that if I stay single or unattached I can move post graduation. I am going to school ok my home state and after graduating I want to move to Kentucky so much or TN or someplace in the South. So there are positives I assume. (Would much rather be a wife and mother but.. Hey in due time I guess)

[overworkedta]

I wouldn't resent them but I would feel as though it was time to move on.  I'd set them free or else resent them.  When I was younger, I tried to put myself second for an SO in what would end up to be a bad relationship.  It made me intl a sad, bitter shell and him demanding that I make such a choice signified a lot: that my desires and wants were less important, that I was ''worth'' less, and that I would always come second.  Not everyone feels that way who would ask me to always give up everything (ie this could be a one-time ask in the hypothetical) but I've never been willing to do that again since. 

 

My SO is my best friend in the world, my favorite person, and the only person I see myself putting up with for the rest of my life haha.  But if he decided his job was going to be more important at this very time and that I was to relocate with him or stay here after getting a TT job elsewhere, I would have to move on.  Luckily, at this point he and I both agree my job is what needs to be the focus right now and is more time-sensitive.  When I get a job, he is going to go back to school to get a grad degree himself most likely and we will figure it out.  And while LDR's suck, we are doing that this summer because sometimes we have to deal.

[TakeruK]

 

Would you sacrifice your future for your significant other (gf/bf/wife/husband)? Would you drop everything you worked so hard for (acceptance letters, fellowships, scholarships) to your number one school and knowing that this is the opportunity of a lifetime and there is a very high chance that you won't be able to come back to school in the future.

 

 

I think it really really depends. I think there would be a lot of other issues present if one SO said to the other, "You must choose me or school, not both". I don't think it's fair for one person to demand that of another and I am with fuzzy in these cases--probably not the kind of person I might want to be with. 

 

But, for many people in relationships where one is an academic and one isn't, the lengthy PhD program and delay in "entering the real world" (whatever that really means) can be frustrating for the SO not in academia. To me, I view life with a SO as a partnership--us against the world, so things like whether I go to school or not depends on what both my SO and I think. For example, after doing a Masters and before starting a PhD, my spouse and I had thought about what we want our future to be like a lot before I accepted a PhD offer. We considered all possibilities and decided that the path we now chose was the best for us. I say our life is a partnership because my spouse had equal say in where we went for my PhD--I picked the schools with interesting programs and my spouse picked locations that were interesting / had good opportunities and I only applied to places that were good for both of us.

 

If I thought about myself only, then sure, it did mean that there might have been some places I wanted to apply to but did not because I wanted to make sure we were both happy. But since I knew we would not both be happy with that arrangement, it no longer became a place I wanted to apply to. And ultimately, if the result of our long discussion after my Masters was that it was in our best interest for me to not do a PhD at all, stay in Canada, get a good job, etc. then I would have been happy to not do a PhD. I think that outcome is a lot different than an outcome where one SO gives an ultimatum to each other. So I think the true answer to the original question is really dependent on the circumstances leading to the question, as others have pointed out!

[ss2player]

I am sort of in that situation.  My girlfriend and I got into the top programs for our fields, mine in Southern California and hers in Boston. My family told me, and her family told her, that a solid relationship is more important than the career, and having someone that is marriage potential will be a lifelong investment that will provide more happiness and that isn't worth the risk of losing over a career or education.

 

We both got into the top schools for our respective fields, and we both decided to go to our schools and continue our relationship in long distance.  I don't think we will sacrifice each other, but we definitely chose schools above our relationship.  In my mind, selecting the right school is placing my partner as a top priority because I think of my girlfriend benefiting from the opportunities that I will get from completing school.

 

I think if it really came down to it, black or white as posed in the OP, I would pick a relationship over a career or schooling.

 

Not everyone wants to get married for life and be monogamous. My SO and I are fiercely independent, so while we enjoy each other and look forward to new adventures, neither of us would ask a huge sacrifice to be made like that. Matter of fact, if either of us said something in that vein, we'd ask the other what they'd been smoking.

Maelia8 really nailed it; people come and go, but you are always YOU. Take advantage of opportunities to better yourself, lest you think an SO will provide that for you, because they won't. 

[Vene]

Already did it during undergrad. The relationship with her led to issues with my family and I ended up leaving with an AS. I eventually was able to go back and finish a BA and now am moving from the Midwest to New England for a PhD.

[deci:belle]

I got a bad taste in my mouth when my boyfriend in undergrad wanted me to transfer out to be closer with him. I put my foot down that I wouldn't and we broke up. After which, I enjoyed my experience in college WAY more.

Now that I'm older, I don't know if I would make the same choice. I want to say yes, because I can't transfer schools with my major or start and stop. So if he couldn't wait for me for 4 years, then I guess it wasn't meant to be.

[victorydance]

Not a chance. I live abroad with my girlfriend and I already told her that the Ph.D. is non-negotiable.

 

If I get in, I am out of here. If she wants to come then come but it's on you. I made sacrifices to be here; if she wants to continue the relationship, it's her turn. 

[RunnerGrad]

I think it really really depends. I think there would be a lot of other issues present if one SO said to the other, "You must choose me or school, not both". I don't think it's fair for one person to demand that of another and I am with fuzzy in these cases--probably not the kind of person I might want to be with. 

 

But, for many people in relationships where one is an academic and one isn't, the lengthy PhD program and delay in "entering the real world" (whatever that really means) can be frustrating for the SO not in academia. To me, I view life with a SO as a partnership--us against the world, so things like whether I go to school or not depends on what both my SO and I think. For example, after doing a Masters and before starting a PhD, my spouse and I had thought about what we want our future to be like a lot before I accepted a PhD offer. We considered all possibilities and decided that the path we now chose was the best for us. I say our life is a partnership because my spouse had equal say in where we went for my PhD--I picked the schools with interesting programs and my spouse picked locations that were interesting / had good opportunities and I only applied to places that were good for both of us.

 

If I thought about myself only, then sure, it did mean that there might have been some places I wanted to apply to but did not because I wanted to make sure we were both happy. But since I knew we would not both be happy with that arrangement, it no longer became a place I wanted to apply to. And ultimately, if the result of our long discussion after my Masters was that it was in our best interest for me to not do a PhD at all, stay in Canada, get a good job, etc. then I would have been happy to not do a PhD. I think that outcome is a lot different than an outcome where one SO gives an ultimatum to each other. So I think the true answer to the original question is really dependent on the circumstances leading to the question, as others have pointed out!

 

Well said TakeruK.  I consider my marriage a partnership.  My husband and I work together to decide what options are best for us as a couple.  My marriage is not a disposable relationship that I would throw away just because I have to compromise on some things.

 

Like you, there are some programs I simply didn't apply to for graduate school because they didn't make sense for us as a couple.  That doesn't mean I've "thrown away my dreams" (whatever that means anyhow).  It means I'm in a relationship that is of great importance to me.  So my husband and I make decisions together, as a couple.  We made a choice that works for both of us.

 

Being in a loving, lasting, committed relationship requires some sacrifice, by both individuals involved.  As you said, that is not the case when one partner delivers an ultimatum to the other.  There is a huge difference between the two scenarios.

[Vene]

Well said TakeruK.  I consider my marriage a partnership.  My husband and I work together to decide what options are best for us as a couple.  My marriage is not a disposable relationship that I would throw away just because I have to compromise on some things.

 

Like you, there are some programs I simply didn't apply to for graduate school because they didn't make sense for us as a couple.  That doesn't mean I've "thrown away my dreams" (whatever that means anyhow).  It means I'm in a relationship that is of great importance to me.  So my husband and I make decisions together, as a couple.  We made a choice that works for both of us.

 

Being in a loving, lasting, committed relationship requires some sacrifice, by both individuals involved.  As you said, that is not the case when one partner delivers an ultimatum to the other.  There is a huge difference between the two scenarios.

Thank you, I like this post a lot. A relationship is a partnership, you have to work together. I very much based the schools I applied to on my wife's input, she's moving too, her thoughts matter. A healthy relationship is a series of compromises and my wife means a lot more to me than letters I can write after my name.

[JBums1028]

So I think there are so many factors and variables that would weigh into this type of a consideration that it's difficult for most people to give a definitive "yes/no" on this answer.

 

If I have to give some type of answer, I'd first say that it would depend on the relationship. If it was someone that I was married to, engaged to, or am very seriously committed to, then I'd consider it. I'd weigh the situation and how it would affect not only my partner, but us as a couple. If the opportunity would benefit both of us considerably, then I'd be willing to compromise. I'm fortunate to be entering a field where I should be able to find work for the most part anywhere. So if "giving up my dreams" meant that I wouldn't be able to work at my dream school or live in the city I always wanted to, I would be willing to compromise on that as long as there would still be opportunities for me in the new location.

 

However, if the person was wanting me to stop working altogether to move with them, then no. And I would never ask that of someone else. When you put someone in that situation, that could lead to resentment and guilt which would create a recipe for disaster. Also on a personal note, if I was with someone who was that controlling, it would take a lot of redeeming qualities for me to want to stay with them...

[QASP]

Thank you, I like this post a lot. A relationship is a partnership, you have to work together. I very much based the schools I applied to on my wife's input, she's moving too, her thoughts matter. A healthy relationship is a series of compromises and my wife means a lot more to me than letters I can write after my name.

 

I agree with this, but I think that implicit in the original post is the idea that the SO in this fictional situation is not willing to compromise, or at least not to the extent of allowing you to go to your dream school. It's sort of like choosing "both" when the options are "A" or "B."

[TakeruK]

I agree with this, but I think that implicit in the original post is the idea that the SO in this fictional situation is not willing to compromise, or at least not to the extent of allowing you to go to your dream school. It's sort of like choosing "both" when the options are "A" or "B."

 

I'd still say it depends. If at the end of my Masters, my spouse had said that she wanted to go to school, or if she would rather us move back to our home town, settle down, start a family etc. or if she had a great career opportunity in a certain place and if these options would not allow me to go for a PhD, then I would be happy to give up graduate school provided that we have a serious discussion about it and in the end, we agreed that me not going to a PhD program is in our best interests. 

 

Earning a PhD and the career opportunities that the PhD opens up would make me happy in life. But it's just one possible career path that would make me happy! I am committed to my partner and our future family and I feel confident that I would be able to find a way to be happy in whatever happens to me in the future. The way my spouse and I set up our plan for academia is that pretty much every major stage (getting into PhD program, getting a postdoc, getting a permanent job) is going to be a time where we re-evaluate our plan and decide whether it's worth it for me to continue in academia. It's "my" career but I am doing it for our family, so we are both going to have an equal say in where I would eventually apply for postdocs and what positions I would take/not take. I can imagine a scenario where I have no desirable postdoc positions and we decide that it's best if I don't continue in academia. 

 

So, ultimately, if it is really A or B (grad school/academia or not--no compromises) I would be perfectly fine with finding an alternate career path if my spouse and I believed that was the best path for our family.

[victorydance]

I am glad I don't have a spouse (or even worse, kids) at this stage in my life. Would make everything so much more complicated.

[TakeruK]

I am glad I don't have a spouse (or even worse, kids) at this stage in my life. Would make everything so much more complicated.

 

Being responsible for more than just yourself is always more complicated, but more complicated isn't necessarily bad (or good) either.

[maelia8]

Being responsible for more than just yourself is always more complicated, but more complicated isn't necessarily bad (or good) either.

 

It really just depends on what you feel you are ready for/wanting at this point in your life. The most important thing to do is make the decision that feels right for YOU, right now, and not allow your own feelings to be influenced by ideas about what you are "supposed to be doing" at whatever stage in life you are currently experiencing. As long as the choice to complicate your life/make compromises for your relationship is one that you feel comfortable with, then I'd say go ahead. If you don't want to make those kinds of compromises, then you shouldn't be judged for it by others either.

[TakeruK]

It really just depends on what you feel you are ready for/wanting at this point in your life. The most important thing to do is make the decision that feels right for YOU, right now, and not allow your own feelings to be influenced by ideas about what you are "supposed to be doing" at whatever stage in life you are currently experiencing. As long as the choice to complicate your life/make compromises for your relationship is one that you feel comfortable with, then I'd say go ahead. If you don't want to make those kinds of compromises, then you shouldn't be judged for it by others either.

 

I definitely agree with this 100% -- was not trying to judge anyone's opinions here, was just expressing my own!

 

Although most people I meet are supportive, since I am trying to balance life and work equally, I will always meet people who think I am not prioritizing work enough, or others who think I am not prioritizing family enough. But it's my life, not theirs, so I'll just do what I feel is right for me, for now, and I'd strongly encourage and support people in choosing whatever makes them happy

[NothingButTheRain]

It really just depends on what you feel you are ready for/wanting at this point in your life. The most important thing to do is make the decision that feels right for YOU, right now, and not allow your own feelings to be influenced by ideas about what you are "supposed to be doing" at whatever stage in life you are currently experiencing. As long as the choice to complicate your life/make compromises for your relationship is one that you feel comfortable with, then I'd say go ahead. If you don't want to make those kinds of compromises, then you shouldn't be judged for it by others either.

 

 

Agreed.  You can also add in the complexities of the relationship.  A new bf/gf doesn't carry nearly the weight of a fiance/spouse, and with that, exactly what are you two willing to go through to make this happen?  

 

I disagree with spinosaurus: while one-way sacrifice isn't healthy, relationships (especially long-term ones) are ALL about sacrifice and compromise, usually for the betterment of both parties.  If you enter a relationship without considering that you may have to give up some things (talking small things here, not your life's dreams and ambitions), you're either in a parasitic relationship, or you're very quickly going to find yourself single again... whether your academic/career ambitions make that cut is defined by their importance in your life and the relationship you have.

 

To answer the initial question, probably.  If we're talking about going to a #2 -4 school on my list to make the better half happy, then yes, I could do that.  It also, however, leaves undefined the "why" she's asking me to do that.  Knowing my wife, she doesn't often ask for things like that without a good reason... going with what I said above, that's just my answer.  Your mileage may  will vary.

[stella_ella]

Hell no. I lead my own life, thank you very much.