I still can't find work

[jim1986]

It has been almost two years since I have graduated from the University of Indianapolis with a Master's Degree in Sociology and despite my efforts, I have been getting the same results. I have a BA in criminal justice as well, so I've been taking tests to move up in the app process for police departments, but I am not a good standardized test taker, so I keep failing the tests, or I score high, but not high enough to be considered for an interview. 

I feel embarrassed and ashamed when people from high school come into whatever retail store I end up temporarily working in and see me bagging items or running a register, while they probably are making good money and are married with a house. 

Even though my peers (especially in my generation) are not doing something directly related to their degree, they found SOMETHING. I seem to be stuck in retail. 

Despite my shortcummings, I still think that with my experience as a research assistant for an independent research firm, an RA for the University of Indianapolis conducting independent research, and office experience being an intern for a senator, and brief experience being an ethnographer for a market research company should all amount to a back round that would qualify me to become an administrative assistant at least right? Nope. Just the other day, I got shot down for a position doing that for a community college. The position was filled, without me even getting an interview. 

I feel like I was told by everyone to attend school, and to get as much experience as I could and that still isn't enough. I feel as though there was pressure put on me to aim high in terms of academia and complete my degrees, yet I was not afforded the resources needed to map out a long term perspective. There was no life coach there to help me carve out a career related to social science research methodology or criminal justice administration. There were no introductions made for me by professors as a way to make connections in major metropolitan areas. Career counselors proved useless in terms of advice, as they just told me to put my academic experience on my resume, which I later found out that employers don't care about. 

Does anyone have any advice for me? I feel like I'm in a rut, stuck in my parents house with no savings or retirement plan, and a ton of student loan debt. I feel like I have noone else to go to as far as career advice goes, and I can't figure out a way to gain valuable experience without going back to school AGAIN (btw I have applied for soc phd programs as a last resort for the fall of 2015).

[jujubea]

Few ideas here:

 

1. It's not that you aren't qualified to be an administrative assistant, it's that you're overqualified. People do not want to hire clearly overqualified candidates because they know that person is just waiting around for something better. They'd rather invest in someone long-term.

 

2. It's best to do something even tangentially related to what you want to be doing. Otherwise you're kind of going backwards. Retail's not a good idea, unless with your crim justice degree you're thinking about becoming a loss prevention officer or coordinator or manager or something. Since you're taking lowest-level jobs anyways, why not go work low-level in a social organization of some kind? A non-profit that works on reducing recidivism, or that works with those already imprisoned to help them prepare for life after jail? Such places would take you on as an administrative assistant, because they know you want to be in their field.

 

3. If you can't work somewhere even remotely related, or even if you can, you might also try volunteering somewhere related. For example, there is a nationwide network of organizations that do something called victim-offender reconciliation. Why not become a volunteer mediator there? Or volunteering for a juvenile offender program as a tutor or mentor? Or try interning at a PD instead of becoming a PO. You can also look at the Sheriff's Office not just the PD, and you can also look at the PD training facilities. 

 

4. Reach out to someone in the field who is doing what you want to do. Perhaps that's a Deputy in the field; perhaps that's a researcher profiling criminals; whatever it is, take the time to craft a well thought e-mail and reach out to someone letting them know you're looking for a mentor or at least some short-term guidance.

 

5. Have you thought about going overseas for work? What about being a research at an overseas university? Many countries are developing their police department and security services to come up to higher standards. I'm sure they can use some of your help and expertise. 

 

What do you want to be doing?

What are some of your dream jobs?

[jim1986]

juju,

 

A few things to say here,

 

I'm still not sure what overqualified means. If someone has experience, wouldn't employers be happy to hire them? BTW I've been told by several employers that I lack the experience needed. And by that logic, wouldn't retailers reject me then? 

 

Secondly, I worked as a research assistant conducting secondary research pertaining to recidivism rate reduction by means of the wee ones live-in nursery program. I saw that you mentioned some non-profits work on achieving that. Any off the top of your head that you can think of specifically? I'd love to poke around that my area for an opportunity in that. 

 

Lastly, my ideal job would be in the field of social science research, be it qualitative or quantitative. I've applied for entry level interviewer, research assistant and research analyst positions but that dream never materialized. I admit that most of my research experience is rooted in academia (literature reviews and powerpoint presentations), so I've applied to University research opportunities but they never even interview me despite my qualifications.

[Vene]

I'm still not sure what overqualified means. If someone has experience, wouldn't employers be happy to hire them? BTW I've been told by several employers that I lack the experience needed. And by that logic, wouldn't retailers reject me then? 

It means that even if you have the minimum background, you're a high risk hire. A PhD is a bad match for an admin assistant because they suspect you'll get bored with the job and leave at the first opportunity, thereby wasting the time they spent training you. Additionally, overqualified candidates are often low-morale, which interferes with performance, and feel that their current tasks are beneath them, which also interferes with performance.

[jim1986]

That's awesome. So I'm basically stuck between being overqualified for some entry level positions, and unqualified for others. Noone warned me about this when I was in college.

[Guest criminologist]

The thing is if you have a master's in sociology why would you want to work as an admin assistant anyway? it has absolutely nothing to do with your field that is why people don't want you. and you have research experience so that would help if you apply to research positions or go into a PhD program. are you only apply to jobs in you city?

[jim1986]

I've applied to over 100 employers for entry level quantitatve/qualitative research and interviewer positions and have only gotten one interview. One place expressed interest in me then said that my lack of project management would inevitably lead me to struggle. A little rude assuming that, especially considering that I was in school for 6.5 years doing just that! 

Applying to jobs other than research positions is what I consider to be an option. Today's youth is finding itself having to settle for things completely unrelated to their studies out of financial necessity, rather than career preference. It's sad really. I don't know a single person my age doing anything remotely related to their field except one person, who is enrolled in a PhD program. 

So trust me, I had a dream to get involved in human behavior or market research, but it never materialized. What a jip. I hope all the private institutions and banks end up getting the whistle blown on them for taking 18 year olds money and providing them nothing in the way of preparing them to be able to pay it all back. We need to call these people out. I held up my end of the bargain, now where is my job?

[rising_star]

Given the economy and its current state, no one is promised a job anymore nor should anyone be expecting one to materialize for them. 100 applications isn't that many in these circumstances. I would keep applying for market research jobs (quirks.com comes to mind as a resource for those). For nonprofits, take a look at idealist.org to get some ideas about what's out there. For local nonprofits, you'll probably need to check the newspaper, Craig's List, and their websites to find job postings.

[Guest criminologist]

Well criminal justice/sociology isn't a field that is in high demand exactly and on top of that your school name isn't helping either, no offense. It is really mostly the humanities/soft sciences majors that are settling for jobs outside their fields, it is easier if you are in the hard sciences. Sociology isn't even that good of a major for the jobs you want though, but statistics or business. Your only option really is to get a PhD and then teach or research if you really want a worthwhile job in the sociology field.

Edited January 9, 2015 by criminologist

[jujubea]

...and even then... from what I hear, good luck finding a teaching position...

 

Have you PMed or posted on that one thread with the sociology professor willing to answer questions? He offers advice for admissions sure, but I'm sure he knows a thing or two about a thing or two outside of academia too...

[jim1986]

Sociology is considered a "Soft Science" definitely, but I think the job market being so bad is part of an overall societal ill. My dissertation will discuss strategies for looking at how liberal arts degrees are taught in other countries, and how they are implemented in such a way that talent and real world experiences manifest into transferable skills. Experience-based functional learning should address ways in which liberal arts majors can tap into their true potential by making use of what colleges SHOULD provide them with: connections with local communities and individuals in their field, internships, and more help crafting meaningful publications. By the way, I aim to make a few myself, since I'm so disgusted with this country throwing millenials under the bus. 

Liberal arts degree holders ARE valuable to our economy, we just need to put more funding and care into the programs (instead of building a lazy river like Boston University, or a Starbucks in the library like Bradley). 

Noone once talked about the differences in expected income/job prospects by major when I was at the young age of 18, so any implied blame on me in the above mentioned statements are to me, completely dissmissable. I agree that engineering and math majors enjoy better job outlooks after school, but come on, not everyone has the aptitude to do that. And in order to build up our EXTREMELY weak middle class again, we need to equip EVERYONE with the skills they need for success.  

Now, who is this professor I should speak with? Is he on this website? I don't go on here very often, so I am unfamiliar.

Edited January 9, 2015 by jim1986

[jim1986]

It was more like 170 now that I think about it. Still....100 isn't that many? Who on earth could have entered into this world during 80's prepared for such drastic changes, that they had zero control over? Does it not bother anyone else that the job market is so bad because we don't create enough labor, while at the same time, we make no efforts to control our ever growing population? 

Instead, we surround our youths with mixed messages: You NEED the next Iphone or tablet. You NEED an Xbox One. Our entire lives were engulfed in this. What about savings, retirement money, and transparency pertaining to student loans, and the job market in relation to the major we picked? Seriously, greed has taken over this country. I don't mind people making money, but there are some industries where it absolutely should never be the driving force, like healthcare and education.

'

[rising_star]

Jim, there's really nothing helpful about thinking about the greed and the mixed messages or the differences between the 80s and now. What you need to do is try to figure out how to succeed on the job market. You may want to tap into your alumni network. You may also want to do informational interviews via LinkedIn to figure out how to better market the skills you have. The website VersatilePhD may help you with figuring out how to translate your experience into the skills employers are looking for. If you feel like you weren't "afforded" the right resources, figure out how to tap into them now instead of just complaining about it. 

[jim1986]

I'm going to channel my complaints into something constructive, as you all should do. Before this country collapses into chaos.

[jim1986]

By the way,I'm raising needed awareness about a relevant issue; blacks and women voters earned their rights by doing that as well. But it all started with complaining.

[rising_star]

jim, I'm not sure that comparing not being able to find a job as easily as you would like to systematic and institutionalized racism/sexism is the same. Given your background in sociology, I would think you would know better than to make such comparisons.

 

But, in an effort to be helpful, I'll note that I and others have provided you with resources you can use. And, if that's not enough, perhaps you can go to Adrian College and get a second bachelor's? http://www.higheredjobs.com/Articles/articleDisplay.cfm?ID=603

[jim1986]

SuperMod, this is a very sociologically relevant topic. Please don't use my back round to put me down or insult my intelligence. As thinkers, we need to see certain issues as part of global nationwide problems that will affect our economy and society at large. Social conditioning, bad advice from counselors, and slick marketing tactics have lead many students down an academic path to nowhere. The alienation begins when many students graduate with a degree, and no job, only to move back in with mom and dad. Meanwhile, the alienation continues as they accept low wage jobs (like myself in retail) out of financial need to try to pay off extremely unfairly priced tuition. We've disenfranchised an entire generation of people by creating a generational gap between the baby boomers that got social security and retirements/pensions, and the millenials that got debt and low paying jobs. Since older people tend to vote more often (sadly young people don't do that enough), legislation designed to help students such as pell grants, loan refinancing, and what not, continue to get blocked. In the mid 2000's, the Feds tried to create a system that better informed students and their families about what was going on with students while in school and after they graduate but it was dismissed after intense lobbying by private colleges. Shocker. So what we ended up having was several institutions tout "Our graduates enjoy a mean income of $65,000 a year after graduating!"  Instead of breaking it up by major, they just put up meaningless numbers to get people's money. This is deception. This is taking away the basic rights of people. Thomas Jefferson and Richard Nixon both said that noone should be barred from obtaining a rich education because of money. I don't see any efforts being made to adhere to these ideologies. The student loan bubble will burst, and once again send our nation into another recession. Not only that, but if something isn't done soon, we're going to have a lot of underemployed and unemployed people. These things can lead to family disputes/blaming, feelings of failure, hopelessness and alienation, depression, and in some cases, suicide. So please don't undermine what I believe to be the worst crises the United States stands to face in the next 25 years. Because this is a nationwide ponzi scheme.

[jim1986]

I did find the Adrian article interesting. It's part of a new consumer-based mindset movement taking places in terms of paying for education. It's too bad our society does not put more pressure on other institutions to do things like this. Hopefully, other universities will follow suit in efforts to be more competitive, and eventually the "College on credit" mentality will disappear because of better informed families making better decision. 

Sigh...if only I knew better when I was young. I guess I'll make sure to inform my future children not to fall prey like I did. That is, if I can ever afford children...

[rising_star]

If the bitterness and "know-it-all"-ness you express here is in your job application materials, then I can't say I'm surprised you're having trouble finding a job. While it's okay to rant against the system, you should be careful because employers may not want to hire someone that is so negative. 

[GCool]

"Our graduates enjoy a mean income of $65,000 a year after graduating!"  Instead of breaking it up by major, they just put up meaningless numbers to get people's money. This is deception.

 

Hindsight's 20/20, bro. A master's doesn't mean an instant job. I had to make resumes for FOUR DIFFERENT STATES and apply to a few hundred companies to get my latest position. I drove all over interviewing for small lab technician jobs. I could blame it on my low GPA or my limited industrial experience to that point or something, but the bottom line is employers went with someone else every time (save one, which is where I've been working for 6 months now). Education is one thing; actually working is quite another. Working isn't just DOING shit, either--you have to have the right attitude and seem like a good fit in the current team dynamic.

 

It's fine to be discouraged, but take some days off from being down in the dumps. Employers can smell it on you like alcohol. Once you get a job, I hope you look at these posts and laugh your ass off.

[wonderbread]

Sorry to hear about your situation.  I also graduated from U of I (2002).  When I graduated I also felt that the school did not provided much help in opening any doors to employment.  The only advice I would have has sort of already been mentioned.  If you didn't have a degree in your area, what would you want to do?  Once you figure that out, it's time to start networking in that area.  By networking, I mean reaching out to people in that job position/company even if they are not hiring.  Once you establish a few relationships doors are typically opened in one area or another. As to being "over-qualified", once a relationship is established it becomes much easier to explain why your not pursuing your degree path and why you would be happy doing "X".

 

Good Luck! 

[jim1986]

Double Shot, 

 

I appreciate the advice. 

"Education is one thing; actually working is quite another. Working isn't just DOING shit, either--you have to have the right attitude and seem like a good fit in the current team dynamic"

This is precisely why I, and many other thinkers are so upset with the system. Two authors of books I have read, Jeffrey J. Selingo and Anya Kamenetz point out the failure of higher education forcing a "One-Size-Fits-All" pathway onto students in terms of telling them that their particular education is the authoritative end all be all, without looking in the mirror and evaluating how well their curriculum keeps up with the demands of society. 

Additionally, the ASA posted a couple of articles that showed survey data which indicated that Sociology departments need to start addressing the issue of providing training and teaching of non-academic jobs to students. This may require some snobbery reduction and efforts to get people to realize their full potential by embracing ways to translate their academic disciplines into skills that may attract employers. For instance, someone with knowledge of how underlying statistics shape buying behavior in certain demographics could be quite valuable to people in market research. Instead of turning into bleeding heart liberals who want to change the world, let's enable people to help themselves FIRST, by earning good incomes. Now I'm rambling again. But the gist of my point is that this is why I think we need to attempt to have conversations about the future of higher education, and we need to do it with a higher sense of urgency than some of the professors at my Universities have had.

[AnnaTheActivist]

I'd recommend that you begin writing an article a week and work hard to get published. Continue with a self-documented Independent Study Practicum and stay informed in your field. Attend public meetings, business summits, and lectures. In all ways, act as though you're already the professional you desire to be.

 

I've devoted my PhD research to this very problem, that the talent of highly qualified American citizens is being underutilized, squandered, and effectively wasted. As a matter of policy to new grads, a system is needed so that the investment is not idled, financially subverted. A college student pays into the system BEFORE having financial security, actually a rude expectation on the young, so the investment must be respected by the free market that profits thereof so handsomely. But it won't be unless grads INSIST on it.

 

I have theorized that graduates need to create new enterprise, methodologies (business missions), and capitalize on new realities. I read that research is as much about what is missing as it is about the quality and quantity of solid realities. I do wonder what we are all supposed to do as more and more work becomes automated, outsourced, exported, or discontinued. The decline is systemic, bound to continue, and must become the reason to create the next focus for prosperity.

 

Things have changed in unfortunate ways since I began my college classes in 1981. I wasn't aware until recently exactly how and why finding gainful employment has become ever more difficult. I've worked in so many capacities which have little to do with my undergraduate degrees. Funny thing is that IT actually started the decline that very year, bathed in policy proclivities I made no effort to understand. I regret my earlier years of ignoring politics every day.

 

IT is described as an incremental process, making changes to national policy, undermining the safety measures placed in law for the convenience to business. I see as many useful changes that were made in business policy as I do horrible mistakes in the last 30 years.

 

Anyhoo. Check this book out and you'll very likely find everything you need to create a place for yourself and a great many topics for research articles!

 

Myth America: Democracy VS. Capitalism  by William H. Boyer

 

I also invite you to join the United Steelworkers as an Associate Member. www.usw.org

Please take a look at www.aflcio.org jobs and www.unionjobs.com.

 

PEACE and LOVE,

 

AnnaTheActivist 

 

 

 

[AnnaTheActivist]

And about the 'bleeding heart liberal" remark, the economic pain of not finding a job is something all sectors of partisanship are experiencing. As a matter of fact, seldom do employers ask about your party affiliation. Please don't use it as a way to argue around the ugly facts. If I care enough to spend the rest of my career trying to address the job problem, does it matter how I vote really? I'm liberal enough to care about everyone and that's a good thing.

[Sigaba]

Few ideas here:

 

1. It's not that you aren't qualified to be an administrative assistant, it's that you're overqualified. People do not want to hire clearly overqualified candidates because they know that person is just waiting around for something better. They'd rather invest in someone long-term.

 

 

This statement does not reflect the way the hiring process has changed in many industries since the dot com bubble burst in 2000. These changes, which became entrenched during the Great Recession, reflect employeers' understanding that they're in the driver's seat when it comes to hiring.

 

Today, companies can, and do, define the requirements and responsibilities of entry level positions (e.g. administrative assistant) in such a way that only those with years of experience and extensive expertise can make the first cut.

 

Additionally, more and more companies are outsourcing various states of the hiring process to third parties and web portals. These surrogates are tasked to look for pegs that fit as exactly as possible into round holes, that will require minimal training time, and have a track record for success.

 

What all of this means is that if you are looking for an entry level job, you are competing against applicants with managerial experience and your resume is being glanced at by people and/or software algorithms that are looking for specific qualifications and experiences and ignoring everything else.

 

Here's a true story. . Last summer, the consultancy for which I work re-started its summer intern program. Successful applicants to the program often had master's degrees in hand or were in the process of getting such a degree. Before the recession, successful applicants to the program were generally undergraduates between their third and fourth years of study.

 

So when someone like Jim1986 despairs one should not be too surprised. (That being said, Jim1986, you might benefit from doing a better job at staying focused on what you want to accomplish and fine tuning your situational awareness. Because of your tirades in this thread, there is no way I can recommend the aforementioned internship program to you.)