Significant Others / Post-Acceptance Upheaval

[Dr. Old Bill]

I recognize that we have a fairly small GC cohort this year, but in light of the impending acceptances / relocations etc., I'm curious about those of you with significant others and how you plan to navigate the necessary upheaval.

 

Personally, before I even started looking at grad schools, I had a long, frank discussion with my wife about the possibility of moving. In fact, there were many conversations before I started doing any serious research on programs. She currently has a good job and a stable career...though in something of a "niche" field (non-profit arts administration). She's also happy with the city in which she works. Because of the relative narrowness of her field and job prospects, there's a better than 50/50 chance that we'll have to spend at least some of the time I'm in grad school apart. And while this is certainly quite unfortunate, we're also largely "okay" with that. This won't be the first time we've had to spend a large chunk of our relationship living apart, and we know that we can do it. The ideal would be to live together, of course, but fortunately we have both taken the "best in the long run" perspective on the situation.

 

Having said all of that, assuming I get at least one acceptance, we'll immediately start looking for work in whatever area that particular grad school is in. If I wind up getting more than one, then we'll invariably do the same thing for each program. The quality of program I attend will be the biggest factor, of course, but finding places with good opportunities in her field will also be a consideration.

 

I know that not many of you are married, but the same sort of conversation is probably necessary with any significant other. I'd love to hear other perspectives / plans etc.

Edited January 9, 2015 by Wyatt's Torch

[gliaful]

My situation differs from yours in that my fiance is finishing up his last semester of his MS in mathematics (i.e., he has no compelling reason to stay behind) and we'll be set to move in the summer; however, similar to your situation, he'll need to find work. I don't know where I'll be in seven months, which puts a lot of undue pressure on him -- and even if I did know where we were headed, it's difficult to truly explore a city's opportunities from the view of the internet alone.

 

All of my potential programs provide a stipend, and we've agreed that I will support us both while he searches for employment (if he hasn't found employment by the time we move). This honestly makes me quite nervous, but we're both trying to save a lot of money right now to buffer the financial impact of moving.

 

In your wife's situation, I would tend to believe that most middle- to large-sized cities have public and private non-profit opportunities in the arts -- however, I don't know how specific or translatable her current skills are to other positions. Of course, it's difficult be uprooted from a position where one is established and comfortable. Perhaps she works with someone who has connections in the place you choose to move? 

Edited January 9, 2015 by pasteltomato

[jujubea]

Hey there - I'm in a different field, but the same relationship boat .. plus kids.

 

My partner and I had many, many discussions about this. When we met, I was looking at programs already. I delayed applying for a year so that after I moved in (from overseas) to be with him and his kids in the U.S., we would have more than a couple months of living together before also moving together. 

 

He has geographic limits, which are now my geographic limits. That was the first narrow-down. 

Within those limits I found all the programs I would like to apply to (there were about 7 or 8). From that list, he looked at the cities and states and decided which he would be OK with living in or not, and which ones actually had a relevant job market for him. 

 

If it were just us two, we'd live out of cardboard boxes nearly - we really don't care. But when you have little ones involved, the game gets a lot more stressful, and the stakes are a lot higher. 

 

From that list, we looked at which places have decent enough schools.

 

Now we're down to three. And even of those three, there's one he's very uncomfortable with, but he knows it's a dream program, so wants to support me if possible. I think he also feels indebted because I left my supremely posh overseas job to come be with him and help raise his kids. 

 

I had to come to the conclusion and agreement with myself, that if he chokes at the last minute, I will still move forward with my graduate career. I can't put my life on hold forever, and I know I would be resentful and unhealthy if I delayed this one more time. It has been a lifelong goal for me to attend graduate school, and is just about the only thing I am not willing to compromise on. I gave up a really sweet deal, a sweet life, job security and money, to come live in a crappy tiny town (I've never lived somewhere so small in my life), got rid of car because I can't afford it being a freelancer, and gritted my teeth at essentially being a stay-at-home stepparent (something I never, ever wanted... the stay-at-home part). So, I feel like I've given up a lot already. I wont' give up my PhD. I'd lose myself. And I think he knows that.

 

We are tremendously stressed out. I basically just finished moving in, and now we have to start packing up so that we can sell the house. We are also supposed to be getting married in the spring. One of our parents just landed in the ICU. We are under ungodly financial pressure for reasons I won't say here. He has a very well established private practice in town, owns his building and his home, and will have to give all of that up to move himself and his kids to ... we don't even know where yet.

 

With some kind of divine fortune, the kids have been kind of wanting to leave this town anyway, because it is so small and they know it. They are brilliant kids so we have to do right by them as far as schools, and keeping them here would be a really poor choice for them. That said, they are also hesitant and worry about going farther away from their other biological parent (even though they rarely see her as it is - once every two months or so), and are generally, normally, healthily worried about moving overall.

 

What my man and I have realized is that if we are able to endure this s*** all at once right at the beginning of our relationship.... then we are probably going to kick butt as a couple through basically anything that is thrown our way. And that gives us the confidence to go forward.

 

And that's how it is.

[Mattie Roh]

My husband keeps assuring me that he's fine with living in any of the cities I've listed, but he really, really hates the Penguins so I have my doubts about Pittsburgh.

 

Honestly, I tend to agonize over job prospects (I'm in arts administration as well, he's in college administration) so I've been trying not to think about it. The one comfort is that universities have so many resources to help one in moving to an area. Really, it's less scary than packing up and moving to a new town without a program to go to. I have a few friends that regularly move from city to city -- places they've never lived and don't have connections in  -- and I don't know how they can do it. It's so overwhelming.

 

As far as living apart, that isn't really on the table. 

Edited January 9, 2015 by Mattie Roh

[sillyrabbit]

Great question! I'm actually applying this year with my parter (from college for 3.5 years). He's applying for MD/PhD programs, so his process is equally (if not more) competitive than mine. We both are pretty young and ambitious (2 years out of undergrad) and have decided that we will try our best to make it work this next year. However, if we are both offered great programs in separate locations, we would both accept the offers and, most likely, not pursue a long distance relationship. It would be heartbreaking for sure, but I would definitely not want him to compromise anything for me (and vice versa)

 

His process is much earlier than mine, so he was already admitted into one program (X). He really likes it there and definitely would go (he's waiting to here back from interview results from two other programs, including his top choice). I recently did a Skype interview at X for their Am. Studies program, so fingers crossed that things will work out on that end.

 

On this note, I am curious if anyone else is in a similar situation. How have you and your partner talked about dealing with grad school offers in the same application cycle?

 

Oh I just thought of this...Even more specifically, have you communicated this situation tactfully in any way to your grad schools? For example, I was toying with the idea of telling the DGS at X that my partner is very likely going to be attending another grad program at X next year. I ended up not doing it, because I was unsure of how to phrase it. I was also unsure of the exact purpose of the interview (it was pretty brief, and I mostly asked the questions)...whether it was to gauge my interest or actually gauge my competency/knowledge. Should I send the DGS at X an email just stating this other factor in my own admissions process? Would they even care?

[echo449]

My partner (who is applying for a PhD in the sciences) and I have had this talk, and we attempted to apply if not to the same schools, then to schools in the same area. So if she's applying to CalTech, I found Irvine, etc. Long distance isn't fun, but being an hour away isn't the worst situation to be in, if it comes to that. This kind of solution at least allowed us both to find programs that we could see ourselves at while not sacrificing our respective goals. She is also going to make much more than me with her respective stipends, so that actually played a role in my decision to apply to New York schools, since that would make it workable if things cashed out that way. 

 

We'll have to have another discussion if the worst-case scenario comes to pass (i.e. we wind up on different coasts), but we'll see. 

[lyonessrampant]

I wouldn't recommend telling a program that your partner is/may be attending before you receive an offer.  If you are waitlisted or accepted, you might tell them at that point if your partner will be going to that school so they know you'll almost certainly accept an offer from them.  Maybe others will have different ideas, though.

[jhefflol]

Now that applications are done, this is probably the biggest stress-causing factor in my life.

On our first date, I was very frank about the fact that I would be applying to PhD programs and that I hoped to end up on the east coast. He had been very supportive during this whole process, even helped me run through the entire box of GRE flash cards before he left to work, but him coming along wasn't something that I wanted to discuss because I was afraid of his answer.

Well, we had a few drinks one night and I ended up crying about it. He said he would try to come along, unless something kept him from going, like his mom getting cancer. Duh. His mom is healthy though. He has anxiety and I think that was his way of agreeing without trapping himself. I'm not unreasonable though and I understand that life happens.

I did keep him in mind when applying to programs. For example, I didn't apply anywhere in Texas because that's where he is from and he does not want to go back. But luckily with his job, the manager of a restaurant, he has the flexibility and experience to pack up and move and be able to find employment almost anywhere. However, and I have been clear about this as well, if he doesn't go, I'm not doing long distance.

ETA: I'm sure if I get in to one of, like, 7 programs I applied to in the Boston area he would be more anxious to leave than I would. He's a huge Red Sox fan, lord knows why lol

Edited January 9, 2015 by jhefflol

[angel_kaye13]

I really appreciate this relevant topic, thank you for asking it, Wyatt's Torch!

I'm on a similar spectrum, but on the early edges of it: my husband and I have talked about what we'll do. We don't have a lot of freedom, like most couples, because his job has to take priority at this stage in our lives. So we're both very much aware that my pursuing my doctoral degree will mean separation for the next several years. For us, it helps us to think in terms of practicality: he is well-settled in a career that takes precedence, and, once I get my degree and am settled, he will be at a place where he can then follow my career around, like I've had to for his, until we can both end up doing what we love in the same location.

This WILL be our first big separation, though, in terms of very-lengthy separation. Thus, each of my schools chosen were picked for very specific reasons, one being that I could live with his family, albeit very, very far from our current home. But I'd have his family and that support network, and it would make holidays easier, care of our pets, and the separation in general. I know it won't be a cake-walk, but, in terms of planning for our future, it's a means to an end, and thus worth the risk. But I'm not veteran, and I'm a hopeless optimist. I'd definitely be interested in some more "veteran" people's perspectives of how they manage/matters to consider, when separation is the only recourse. :-)

[sillyrabbit]

I wouldn't recommend telling a program that your partner is/may be attending before you receive an offer.  If you are waitlisted or accepted, you might tell them at that point if your partner will be going to that school so they know you'll almost certainly accept an offer from them.  Maybe others will have different ideas, though.

 

Ok good. I was thinking along the same lines. I just know that for the MD application cycle (which is so cut-throat and competitive), many schools specifically ask if your partner is an MD candidate applying with you. I have a friend who got into his current MD program largely due to his partner (the program really wanted his partner, who was a stellar applicant...she actually ended up going elsewhere - so...a bunch of drama there). 

 

But, it makes sense that these programs don't work like that, especially if partners aren't even applying to the same program.

[1Q84]

I guess my partner and I went the immature route. I told him I was applying to some East coast schools and he was unsure about it but we both figured we would figure it out when the acceptance came in (because we both know that it might just not come in at all).

[smg]

I'm already doing the distance thing.  I'm hoping grad school will put me in the same time zone as my SO.  Damn the border.

[jhefflol]

I guess my partner and I went the immature route. I told him I was applying to some East coast schools and he was unsure about it but we both figured we would figure it out when the acceptance came in (because we both know that it might just not come in at all).

 

This is what I tried to do with my SO, but my nerves got the best of me. I just wanted to be sure he was willing to go with me if the situation presented itself. I hope everything works out for you two! No need to stress about something that might not happen, right?  

Edited January 10, 2015 by jhefflol

[bgt28]

It's always such a difficult compromise to make/discussion to have, but I suppose I'll give my two cents.

 

I recently broke up with my partner (for reasons I believe were related to my being older than him and ready to potentially move to new cities for grad school, which led to a galleria of bullshit [whether or not this is accurate is perhaps not up for discussion]). It's been rough, and it's been quite the experience, going through the application process having had and very suddenly lost a very particular kind of support system. It was heartbreaking, no doubt, but I've come to realize one very important thing while applying that has indeed been extremely restorative: I can and DID do this without him, and I'll get to great places whether or not there is a lover by my side.

 

I know it sounds shady in this context, and heaven knows I don't mean it to be, but perhaps it might be helpful to locate that same need/yearning within yourself, such that eventually you become able to locate the quenching power within yourself. If you're like me, you'll be like "All By Myself...so damn what? Let's go!" But if you have a partner, spouse, and/or children, I feel like this attitude is useful regardless, since any compromise you will end up making won't feel like a compromise at all, since you've gained surety within yourself. 

 

I totally get how incredibly naive I sound, but feel free to respond! xx

[Dr. Old Bill]

Not naive or shady at all, bgt! In fact, I'd say that's right on the money. On the surface of it, a Ph.D. is a 5-year commitment, minimum. But really, it's much longer than that, and much more than that. It can potentially mean a few individual years in different places around the country, and if the ever-elusive TT position becomes available, and you wind up being a leading candidate, then you're going to want to / have to take it...whether it's in Boston, Bakersfield, Bangor or Bismarck. That means it takes a heck of a lot of faith and support from a life partner to stick with you through all of that...and a lot of self-assurance on your own part to willingly emulate the Wandering Jew for years on end, with no definitive end in sight. It sounds bleak, but it's realistic, and if you don't have someone there who is dedicated to the ultimate end goal of your arduous journey, then you probably have to go it alone.

 

There are shades of support, of course, and each individual partnership will work things out in their own way...but if my wife wasn't on board with this (and I emphasize that she has been from day one, and effectively steered me down this path to begin with, a few years ago), I would probably be doing this anyway, regardless of the consequences. It can be an almost impossible tradeoff for some, but at this point in my life I realize that while my life experiences have had their fair share of rewards etc., this is my "calling" so to speak (and I normally dislike such cliched phrases, but there you have it).

[bgt28]

Not naive or shady at all, bgt! In fact, I'd say that's right on the money. On the surface of it, a Ph.D. is a 5-year commitment, minimum. But really, it's much longer than that, and much more than that. It can potentially mean a few individual years in different places around the country, and if the ever-elusive TT position becomes available, and you wind up being a leading candidate, then you're going to want to / have to take it...whether it's in Boston, Bakersfield, Bangor or Bismarck. That means it takes a heck of a lot of faith and support from a life partner to stick with you through all of that...and a lot of self-assurance on your own part to willingly emulate the Wandering Jew for years on end, with no definitive end in sight. It sounds bleak, but it's realistic, and if you don't have someone there who is dedicated to the ultimate end goal of your arduous journey, then you probably have to go it alone.

 

There are shades of support, of course, and each individual partnership will work things out in their own way...but if my wife wasn't on board with this (and I emphasize that she has been from day one, and effectively steered me down this path to begin with, a few years ago), I would probably be doing this anyway, regardless of the consequences. It can be an almost impossible tradeoff for some, but at this point in my life I realize that while my life experiences have had their fair share of rewards etc., this is my "calling" so to speak (and I normally dislike such cliched phrases, but there you have it).

Precisely: this is a calling, meandering included!

[TakeruK]

My application season was for Fall 2012 but I'll say what we did anyways.

 

My spouse and I had a really long discussion (over a span of several months) where we planned what we wanted to do with our careers and discussed/decided our life priorities. Over this time, we decided on a few things:

 

1. We do not want to do long distance.

2. My spouse thinks my career plan is more fruitful than opportunities currently available to her.

3. My spouse would prefer a career arrangement where she can be the stay-at-home parent (I actually think it would be easier for me to do so, given the more flexible schedule of academics but this was what we eventually agreed on).

4. We recognized that we are kind of falling in the traditional/stereotypical situation

5. We know that we want to live in our hometown, near both of our families, in the end, no matter what.

6. Therefore, it is worth trying to pursue an academic career "for me" but we are not willing to just move to any place or accept any position. If we don't get offers for grad schools / postdocs / permanent jobs in places we like (or our hometown), then we will leave the academic career path and hope my training is good enough for a non-academic job in our hometown.

7. In short, we felt that we were both mutually invested in where we move for my PhD program and (hopefully) jobs beyond that, therefore we should both have exactly equal say in where we go, and that we should both be equally excited about where we move.

 

So, the way we made this work was that we made sure the list of schools I applied to were in places that both of us were willing to give a chance. She suggested places based on where it would be fun to live and has good opportunities for jobs she's interested in , and I created a list of places where I thought it would be fun to live and good research fit. Then, we looked at each other's lists and vetoed the ones we did not like. 

 

After I applied to the schools, we visited schools together where possible. I made it clear to all schools that we are making this decision together and many schools planned visit day events for my spouse while I was talking to professors. Being Canadian made things a little more complicated because I needed a special foreign student status or my spouse would not be able to work. We worked with the schools to ensure they were willing to sponsor us on this different status (one school did not, so we did not consider their offer). 

 

After the visits, we both made lists considering both of our interests. Big cities are generally better for her job prospects so we definitely considered that. It turned out our top 3 choices were ranked in the same order so our decision was clear!

 

For the future, we will be doing the same for postdoc offers etc. We are probably going to have a family at that point so considerations like salary (to visit home and pay for children expenses) and location will be even more important. In addition, our eventual goal is to live in our hometown so we will be really selective in applying for postdocs (i.e. we are probably only going to go that route if I get some prestigious postdoc and/or a position that improves my ability to get a non-academic job in my hometown). Otherwise, it might be better to cut our losses and move back to our hometown now instead of taking a low paying postdoc position, suffer for a few more years, and end up moving back home anyways. Ultimately, we both know what we want, what we are willing to sacrifice in the short term, and that we are moving forward in this together. I feel that our commitment and support for each other really helps both of us, especially in bad times in the past 5 years (and yes, there has been a lot of bad times for both of us, but a lot of good times too). I do think that having one of us being a non-academic does make things a little easier, and although moving around for a decade of our young lives is also an adventure that is fun most of the times, it's also sucky some of the times!

 

Having a good partner makes the difference though. I started writing this as others responded, and I guess I would say that for us, I don't feel that science/my research is that much of a calling. If either of us wants out of this meandering/nomadic academic life, we are going to drop everything ASAP. Similarly, if our only postdoc/job options are places we don't want to live or salaries we don't want to live on, we are not going to continue. To me, science is work / a job that I am passionate about, but not the only passion I have, so I would rather have a different job that pays well enough for me to pursue other passion than to live a life that follows the all-consuming passion of academic research. Just my perspective!

[mikers86]

During last year's application season, I limited myself almost entirely to the Northeast, with only a handful of apps in Washington, CA, Texas, and NC. My s.o. is not particularly transportable due to work. Ultimately it was between 1 program near ideal location, and a program in NC. Career-wise, the latter program made the most sense and thus I find myself flying back and forth on a monthly basis. The trade off for me is essentially limiting job prospects in the future - not the smartest decision I can make, but after 7 years you may have to make some sacrifices.

 

It comes down to knowing yourself, your relationship, and what you are and are not willing to do, how much direct support will you or they need, all the while limiting the amount of potential resentment between the two of you.

[toasterazzi]

My husband and I had been together for almost 3.5 years when I started applying to PhD programs last fall. He's always been 100% supportive of my career path, and we'd moved for a job for me earlier in the relationship, so I knew it wouldn't be that much of an issue for us. I did consult him about the various locations I was considering, and for the most part, he was open to just about everywhere. Though he did have a clear favorite, which is funnily enough, exactly where we ended up .

 

When we were planning our move earlier this year, there was a lot to juggle, especially since we were getting married around the same time (I would NOT recommend doing this lol). We saved as much as we could, and I worked a part time job after the semester ended to get us some extra moving money. Finances were TIGHT for most of the summer, but by the end of July, my husband had landed a full time job in our new town. It wasn't the easiest, and I almost went nuts without having the Internet haha, but we made it work.

 

We've already discussed post-grad school life, and he's made it clear that he'd be willing to move wherever I get a job or a postdoc or whatever. We started our relationship doing the long distance thing, but neither of us is especially keen on going that route again. The only thing we're still really trying to sort out is the theoretical kids. We want to adopt, and we know how lengthy the process can be, so we're trying to sort out the best time to get that ball rolling. 

[echo449]

My partner is applying to programs in Chemistry, so she's already started to hear back. It's a strange position to be in--I'm nearly comically happy for her, but we also now have to both wait for baited breath to see if I will be anywhere close-by. Is anyone else jointly applying and experiencing this?

[VulpesZerda]

I've discussed this in a lot of other threads so this might sound familiar to some...

My SO is not an academic and in fact probably will not even pursue a bachelor's degree. He just graduated with his associate's degree and is sort of looking for a new job, but also sort of waiting to see if I hear admissions results. He doesn't really want to move away for a number of reasons so I applied to programs within 5 hours driving plus one that would mean flying. We talked about it for months on end, now all we have to do is wait and see if I even get in! We've been dating for almost 6 years so he really matters a lot to me and my future. Good luck to everyone here!

[merollam]

My fiance and I have been in a long distance situation for almost our entire relationship. I went out-of-state for undergrad (about 3 hours away, so not horrible) and then he joined the Marine Corps, which has put him on both coasts for the past year. Now that I am waiting for grad school decisions, it's pretty hard to decide where I should go (assuming I get accepted). I did apply to schools in two cities that he could be stationed in, but most of the programs are located elsewhere. He of course wants me to choose the best program fit for myself, as do I, but it's still a big decision with lots of things to consider. I am okay with staying long distance for now, as he agreed to move to wherever I end up once his contract with the Marines is up.

We will figure it out though, as will you, OP! Everyone's situation is different, and everyone has their own ideas of what is most important to them.

[snyegurachka]

My partner knew that this was my plan when we started dating, and I think he has wavered between feeling okay about the possibility of moving and dreading it. He was (secretly not so secretly) ecstatic that I didn't get into Emory due to the location. We are doing different things with our lives, so there isn't much of a "your career or mine" thing going on, at least not yet. He is not crazy about a lot of aspects of his job right now and wants to get an MSW (probably?) so that he can do more of the things he wants to do and fewer of the things that he doesn't. All that being said, the plan is for him to start looking for jobs in all the areas of programs I get into and hope he finds something, then apply for MSW programs in the fall in that area and get in-state tuitions.

 

Of course, I could not get in anywhere, or get in to the school I applied to that is in the city we live in now, but this seems to be the general plan. I think what it comes down to is that things will hopefully work out because we are both ready for a change.

[Dr. Old Bill]

Yeah, it's always tough when you and your spouse are in different phases of your career. Since this path is a career "reboot" for me, so to speak, I'm well behind my wife in that regard, who is firmly established in her field. Not so locally entrenched that she can't or won't move...but enough that it's not going to be an easy process either way.

 

It all comes down to (as with most "couple" things...) consistently open communication. I'm always running my thoughts on these matters by my wife...perhaps too often, really. But it's vital to have a good sense of what each other is thinking about matters as large as these.

[Put a cat on it]

My cats really hate moving, but they don't get a choice. Sorry, cats!

 

I am dating someone, who could become something more...but we'll cross that bridge (if it even comes) later.