Multiple Advanced Degrees

[ERR_Alpha]

We had a speaker yesterday who ever so casually said that we should consider getting a law degree after we get our PhD (we're all biochemists)...   It got me thinking about how common this is... does anyone on here have experience getting multiple degrees? What motivated you to do so? I'm only a first year PhD so going to MORE school after this seems insane. He also mentioned getting an MBA... although the only other degree I would ever possibly consider was an MPH.

[gliaful]

I think it might be becoming increasingly common, but I don't know either. I noticed that one of the programs I applied to (Vanderbilt) offers a JD/PhD program in "Law and Neuroscience". 

 

Going to law school after getting a PhD in biochemistry, to my ears, sounds like spending a lot of days either arguing about drug regulations or environmental laws. It almost seems like, at that point, you'd mostly be a lawyer who could back-up anything sciency you said with, "I have a PhD in biochemistry". So perhaps this new wave of law+science education represents our lack of scientifically informed lawyers and politicians, who currently make laws governing things that they don't know anything about.

[Vene]

I think it might be becoming increasingly common, but I don't know either. I noticed that one of the programs I applied to (Vanderbilt) offers a JD/PhD program in "Law and Neuroscience". 

 

Going to law school after getting a PhD in biochemistry, to my ears, sounds like spending a lot of days either arguing about drug regulations or environmental laws. It almost seems like, at that point, you'd mostly be a lawyer who could back-up anything sciency you said with, "I have a PhD in biochemistry". So perhaps this new wave of law+science education represents our lack of scientifically informed lawyers and politicians, who currently make laws governing things that they don't know anything about.

Patents, it means you'll be perfect for working in patent law.

 

Also, a MBA can be good if you want to lead a large team. I worked for a chemist with a PhD and a MBA.

[ERR_Alpha]

Patents, it means you'll be perfect for working in patent law.

Also, a MBA can be good if you want to lead a large team. I worked for a chemist with a PhD and a MBA.

The speaker worked on patent law, actually. Basically translated the science into lawyer speak. It must take a special kind of person to be able to get a research based science PhD and then get through a law degree. I also wonder how his work/life balance was... It seemed dismal.

[Vene]

The speaker worked on patent law, actually. Basically translated the science into lawyer speak. It must take a special kind of person to be able to get a research based science PhD and then get through a law degree. I also wonder how his work/life balance was... It seemed dismal.

Lawyers in general have to be workaholics. They put in some intense hours.

[WhatAmIDoingNow]

I believe Cornell has a PhD in Developmental Psych and JD program. I was momentarily intrigued until I snapped back to reality.  So much school! You really need to go into grad school with an end game in sight.  Need to start contributing to society at some point, not just taking classes.

[Vene]

I believe Cornell has a PhD in Developmental Psych and JD program. I was momentarily intrigued until I snapped back to reality.  So much school! You really need to go into grad school with an end game in sight.  Need to start contributing to society at some point, not just taking classes.

As a current PhD student I am so sick of classes. I want to be done with them so I can actually do some real work.

[ion_exchanger]

I agree with Vene. I just finished all of my coursework and am looking forward to never being required to take another course again. If I choose to take a course, different story. When I was an undergrad, quite a few of the biology majors interested in going to pharmacy school said that they wanted to become a pharmacist and then go to law school to practice pharmacy law.

[rising_star]

I've considered going back to school for a second master's, though in an entirely different area (my degrees are in the social sciences, but this would be in Higher Ed/Student Affairs). But, I haven't pulled the trigger yet for a number of reasons, many of which are financial.

[ritapita]

I have 2 Masters and a grad certificate.  Now heading into a PhD, and after 4 years already in grad coursework I am burnt.  I know I will be excited and renewed in a new program, but seriously so done with classes.  I am very specific about my research and end goal so I know I am doing the right thing, but sometimes I do wonder...

[eeee1923]

I mean I get that some people want to specialize or make career switches (which is understandable) but eventually you have to pick something and start applying the skills you gained. I went (and going) with the traditional BS -> MS -> PhD. I briefly considered MD/PhD, then realized that I'm already reaching the point where I'm more happy doing research full time with the occasional seminar and don't think I would survive more classes, especially where I'm just trying to shove a bunch of info into my brain and calling it "learning". 

[SymmetryOfImperfection]

fk that lol, gotta get my free time.

 

i've seen ppl get MBAs, MS Finance, etc. after a PHD in physic, atmospheric sciences, computational chemistry, etc. and I'm thinking - why would you torture yourself like that and spend even more money and time, just for the tiny extra chance of getting a finance job where you'd torture yourself some more for some scraps?

 

after my PHD, I'm gonna take a vacation with my life savings. Life is too short to spend slaving away in a classroom.

[Jagged]

There's a guy in my PhD program who already has a PhD. Seems like a total waste to me. I would never get a second PhD.

 

An MD, JD, or MBA in addition to a PhD on the other hand could be useful in some cases. Since there are so many MBA's and JD's running around, a PhD makes you stand out and gives you more credibility.

[WhatAmIDoingNow]

There's a guy in my PhD program who already has a PhD. Seems like a total waste to me. I would never get a second PhD.

 

An MD, JD, or MBA in addition to a PhD on the other hand could be useful in some cases. Since there are so many MBA's and JD's running around, a PhD makes you stand out and gives you more credibility.

I knew a man who had multiple PhDs, all in social sciences.  His last was in clinical psychology. Not interested in research, yet he completed several dissertations. 

[thr0waway]

I knew a man who had multiple PhDs, all in social sciences.  His last was in clinical psychology. Not interested in research, yet he completed several dissertations. 

 

What exactly was he hoping to do with his life?  I can understand doing multiple PhDs if you really liked research / the job of a grad student, but if he wasn't interested in research this is beyond me

Edited February 16, 2015 by thr0waway

[WhatAmIDoingNow]

What exactly was he hoping to do with his life?  I can understand doing multiple PhDs if you really liked research / the job of a grad student, but if he wasn't interested in research this is beyond 

 

Seriously, that was my question too. He never really answered my question on the subject of research. He did drop the fact about multiple phds often.  I think he must have had a trust or his wife made a really good income, because he was in his 50s going through the psychology program after completing other phds. Or he could have gone through school at a time where there was more funding and less applicants for those programs.  

[kateosee]

I will be graduating with my MPH this semester and then pursing my PhD in the fall in a different field. 

 

I know I'm weird but I actually like coursework. One of my first questions was how many classes I could take as a first year in the PhD program. 

 

I started as a MPH student right out of undergrad. I had intended on going into women's health (reproductive health/justice) and took a job as a research assistant on a historical reproductive justice project. Fell in love and realized that my heart was in academia and research, not day-to-day public health work (though I still do that as an HIV counselor and working on other projects related to modern-day repro justice issues). 

 

I wouldn't do a 2nd PhD but an additional degree like an MPH or MBA can be very useful depending on your post-grad goals. There are lots of public health jobs, for example, that you won't be considered for without an MPH. 

[Crucial BBQ]

Perhaps it is just a marine science thing, but many programs I have looked at do not accept students with a prior Ph.D. 

 

 

As to why the multiple degrees?  This is something that is most likely to make more sense as you get older.  I understand that the majority of Grad Cafe members are wanting a career in academia, but the reality with the way things are right now most members are going to end up in industry. Or stuck in the cycle of part-time teaching gigs year after year.   Unless you become an in-demand rockstar researcher working on the bleeding edge, you will most likely hit a ceiling in terms of raises (outside of the yearly COL) and promotions. For some this won't be an issue but for others the prospects of an MBA, JD, MS in something-or-another, or grad school certs will look appealing as they will be the only way to continue moving up ladder. 

 

Others are looking towards retirement, or early retirement.  Let's say you got a Ph.D. in what-ever by the age of 30.  Then at 40 you begin Law School, part time.  Maybe you take it nice and slow and earn your JD at 50.  Or 60.  When you retire, you could pick up small (or large) jobs here and there to supplement your fixed retirement income. 

 

I know a few people who have done this.  My grandfather being one (hit ceiling) and a former employer (where I pulled the Law-Degree-at-50 from).  A former roommate of mine has an advanced degree in Pharm from the E.U. and was in the States doing a Ph.D. in Botany; perhaps not quite what the OP is getting at.  A guy I worked with in my first lab tech job had both a BS and Ph.D. in Biology, and was about to enter into...the science equivalent of an MBA (it's escaping me...SBM (Science Business Management?).   My current GF is another who hit the ceiling.  There is no way she can advance in either pay or position, at her current employment or with another, without earning another degree or certs.   And in terms of age-in-career, she is still on the younger side of things. 

 

You may be surprised to learn just how many employments are dependent on the type or types of credentials you have and not the "prestige" of the degree. 

[juilletmercredi]

When I was in grad school I had a friend who was getting his PhD in epidemiology and planned to get an MD afterwards.  I also knew a woman in my program who had already gotten a JD from a top 10 law school and came to my program to get a PhD in history; she wanted to be a law professor, and apparently, that market is super competitive and it's better if you have both a JD and a PhD.

 

Two PhDs is less heard of - most universities won't accept you to do a second PhD if you already have a first one.  I think a PhD + some kind of master's isn't that uncommon; a lot of people add that on for a variety of reasons.  Like a lot of public health postdocs take people with PhDs in related fields, and the first year of the postdoc is spent earning the MPH so you can teach at a school of public health (although you could without one, too). In my field a lot of people get a master's in applied statistics, sometimes on the way to the PhD, sometimes after the PhD. It's also not unheard of for people to get an MPP and do policy stuff.

 

However, I'm of the opinion that you usually don't have to get another degree unless you want to do something very specific. Like let's say I want an industry job. If I want, specifically, to be a statistician - then yes, I will need to go get an MA in statistics. Or if I want to go into law, then I will need a JD. But if I just want a industry job in which I can use my skills and that I will enjoy - then I don't really need to get an additional degree. There are plenty of jobs that will take me with my PhD; there are lots of people with PhDs who have left academia and found productive employment in other fields despite not having an MBA or whatnot. Including in the humanities and social sciences.

 

I'm not fundamentally opposed to the idea of earning another degree if I needed to, but it would have to be something I could do part-time or in executive format.  I am simply uninterested in being a full-time student ever again. (I suppose I would consider the possibility of a 1-year accelerated full-time master's.)

[rising_star]

I will be graduating with my MPH this semester and then pursing my PhD in the fall in a different field. 

 

I know I'm weird but I actually like coursework. One of my first questions was how many classes I could take as a first year in the PhD program. 

I felt this way too when I finished my master's. The feeling passed during PhD coursework though.

[kateosee]

I felt this way too when I finished my master's. The feeling passed during PhD coursework though.

 

I mean, I've already taken about half of my courses for my PhD. Maybe it'll change, I don't know. 

[grad_wannabe]

I find the overall sentiment in this thread against the pursuit of multiple degrees to be a little odd.

 

I'd surmise that many of us value lifetime learning, personal growth, and exploration of unknown topics. Why can't someone who has gone through a biochemistry PhD, but come out the other side with an interest in how legislation shapes the landscape of scientific advancement, go for a JD afterwards? What's wrong with that? I have a deep respect for the aforementioned schools that combine two degrees into one program. I believe that the combination of disparate worldviews and disciplinary lenses make for richer and more expansive modes of thought. 

 

I know a woman with two PhDs - one in marketing and the other in neuroscience. She's now doing groundbreaking work at the intersection of those two disciplines. 

 

I'm saddened by the comments perpetuating the sentiment of "there's a time to stop learning and start contributing back to society" as though those were mutually exclusive endeavors ... especially among the users of GradCafe, people I had hoped would have a different outlook. 

Edited March 4, 2015 by grad_wannabe

[ERR_Alpha]

I find the overall sentiment in this thread against the pursuit of multiple degrees to be a little odd.

I'd surmise that many of us value lifetime learning, personal growth, and exploration of unknown topics. Why can't someone who has gone through a biochemistry PhD, but come out the other side with an interest in how legislation shapes the landscape of scientific advancement, go for a JD afterwards? What's wrong with that? I have a deep respect for the aforementioned schools that combine two degrees into one program. I believe that the combination of disparate worldviews and disciplinary lenses make for richer and more expansive modes of thought.

I know a woman with two PhDs - one in marketing and the other in neuroscience. She's now doing groundbreaking work at the intersection of those two disciplines.

I'm saddened by the comments perpetuating the sentiment of "there's a time to stop learning and start contributing back to society" as though those were mutually exclusive endeavors ... especially among the users of GradCafe, people I had hoped would have a different outlook.

That is not my sentiment at all. I was simply trying to understand the rationale behind why someone would choose to do that. I don't think anyone here was faulting anyone who chooses to do that in any way.

Edited March 4, 2015 by ERR_Alpha

[grad_wannabe]

That is not my sentiment at all. I was simply trying to understand the rationale behind why someone would choose to do that. I don't think anyone here was faulting anyone who chooses to do that in any way.

 

I totally understand and do not find any fault in the slightest with your initial question!

 

It was the following comments in the answers people gave to your question that led me to post what I did:

 

“As a current PhD student I am so sick of classes. I want to be done with them so I can actually do some real work. “

 

“I mean I get that some people want to specialize or make career switches (which is understandable) but eventually you have to pick something and start applying the skills you gained. … I don't think I would survive more classes, especially where I'm just trying to shove a bunch of info into my brain and calling it "learning". ”

 

“fk that lol, gotta get my free time. … why would you torture yourself like that and spend even more money and time, just for the tiny extra chance of getting a finance job where you'd torture yourself some more for some scraps? after my PHD, I'm gonna take a vacation with my life savings. Life is too short to spend slaving away in a classroom.”

 

“There's a guy in my PhD program who already has a PhD. Seems like a total waste to me. I would never get a second PhD.”

[Vene]

“As a current PhD student I am so sick of classes. I want to be done with them so I can actually do some real work. “

In defense of this, as I am the one who said it, I feel that classes are the absolute least productive use of time during a PhD (at least in my field). I learn so much more about my discipline by actually spending time in the lab or reading the published literature as opposed to listening to a professor go over a survey of the material.

 

If nothing else, I think it's telling that in a degree that is expected to take 5-6 years, only 2 of them are focused on coursework. Clearly, it's not the courses which make the PhD so rigorous.