2016 Rejection/Plan B Thread

[502845824]

37 minutes ago, Establishment said:

Damn, this sounds rad. I want to apply even though I already have an MA in philosophy.

I wish I had applied! 

[lisamadura]

22 hours ago, majorshake said:

I (almost) have an MA.. still didn't do me any good

When I decided to get a terminal MA I was told (by both faculty and grad students) that it was not a good idea if I hoped for a Ph.D. someday. They told me that Ph.D. programs prefer to admit students who have not already been "molded" by a graduate program, or something like that. Getting a terminal MA (especially from the same school I attended for my BA) would hurt my chances of getting into a Ph.D. program. I don't know how much truth there is to that. Although I do fear that admissions committees will judge my writing sample more harshly because I have an MA. Although, I had zero vision as an undergrad. I could do expository work but I couldn't have produced a writing sample worth anything at that point so the extra couple years of academic training certainly worked for my (personal) benefit--even if it makes me undesirable to some institutions. 

[psm1580b]

4 minutes ago, lisamadura said:

When I decided to get a terminal MA I was told (by both faculty and grad students) that it was not a good idea if I hoped for a Ph.D. someday. They told me that Ph.D. programs prefer to admit students who have not already been "molded" by a graduate program, or something like that. Getting a terminal MA (especially from the same school I attended for my BA) would hurt my chances of getting into a Ph.D. program. I don't know how much truth there is to that. Although I do fear that admissions committees will judge my writing sample more harshly because I have an MA. Although, I had zero vision as an undergrad. I could do expository work but I couldn't have produced a writing sample worth anything at that point so the extra couple years of academic training certainly worked for my (personal) benefit--even if it makes me undesirable to some institutions. 

Funny, I heard that as well when I went to pursue my terminal M.A. I didn't hear it from my own faculty, but other people and various online resources. However, based on the acceptances from my program that I've seen over the last couple of years... that's just blatant b.s. Maybe it depends on whether the MA program is rated highly? 

[majorshake]

6 hours ago, lisamadura said:

When I decided to get a terminal MA I was told (by both faculty and grad students) that it was not a good idea if I hoped for a Ph.D. someday. They told me that Ph.D. programs prefer to admit students who have not already been "molded" by a graduate program, or something like that. Getting a terminal MA (especially from the same school I attended for my BA) would hurt my chances of getting into a Ph.D. program. I don't know how much truth there is to that. Although I do fear that admissions committees will judge my writing sample more harshly because I have an MA. Although, I had zero vision as an undergrad. I could do expository work but I couldn't have produced a writing sample worth anything at that point so the extra couple years of academic training certainly worked for my (personal) benefit--even if it makes me undesirable to some institutions. 

 

I heard the precise opposite from the faculty at my undergrad school - they all recommended I get an MA, then with some more experience and a much better CV try to apply for a more prestigious PhD. 

And I'm exactly the same - at the end of my undergrad I could barely write, had no idea what I'd like to work on, and if I had pursued a phd then, I feel I would have struggled to keep up.

[dgswaim]

Feelin' like UC Davis is a borderline presumed rejection at this point.

[majorshake]

29 minutes ago, dgswaim said:

Feelin' like UC Davis is a borderline presumed rejection at this point.

Don't give up, friend! You can still get it!

Edited February 8, 2016 by majorshake

[Establishment]

A number of faculty at high ranking PGR departments have noted that an increasing amount of students are coming in with an M.A.

There might be an old stereotype (from the days back when simply holding a PhD meant you could get a tenure-track position anywhere) that M.A.'s are for students who weren't just naturally brilliant at philosophy. That M.A.'s were for those who didn't study philosophy at undergrad. But it's becoming more and more of a requirement now a days to be competitive.

[smwinterfeldt]

8 hours ago, majorshake said:

 

I heard the precise opposite from the faculty at my undergrad school - they all recommended I get an MA, then with some more experience and a much better CV try to apply for a more prestigious PhD. 

And I'm exactly the same - at the end of my undergrad I could barely write, had no idea what I'd like to work on, and if I had pursued a phd then, I feel I would have struggled to keep up.

 

2 hours ago, Establishment said:

A number of faculty at high ranking PGR departments have noted that an increasing amount of students are coming in with an M.A.

There might be an old stereotype (from the days back when simply holding a PhD meant you could get a tenure-track position anywhere) that M.A.'s are for students who weren't just naturally brilliant at philosophy. That M.A.'s were for those who didn't study philosophy at undergrad. But it's becoming more and more of a requirement now a days to be competitive.

My experience has fallen in line with y'alls. I got my bachelor's from an unknown school in Tennesee. I did well in the program, but I was advised to apply for an MA as a bridge into a strong PhD program.

[502845824]

9 hours ago, majorshake said:

 

I heard the precise opposite from the faculty at my undergrad school - they all recommended I get an MA, then with some more experience and a much better CV try to apply for a more prestigious PhD. 

And I'm exactly the same - at the end of my undergrad I could barely write, had no idea what I'd like to work on, and if I had pursued a phd then, I feel I would have struggled to keep up.

I got roughly the same advice, except one professor said that I should just apply to low-ranked PhD programs instead of MAs, with the goal of transferring out after a couple years. The rest of my advisers unanimously agreed that that was terrible advice, and I should apply for MAs instead. If it helps, the one who said otherwise is very old (>80).

[MentalEngineer]

17 hours ago, lisamadura said:

Although I do fear that admissions committees will judge my writing sample more harshly because I have an MA.

Even if they do, your WS is almost certainly good enough to make up the difference. I have no idea what AdComms think or don't think about having a terminal MA as an indication of "potential" - whatever that even means. But I have a pile of anecdata, both from my own development and seeing how other people at my program have grown, that says doing an MA makes your work so, so much better. A couple of us, maybe, could have written the writing samples we're using without the extra training. I'm just going to straight up quite my SoP because it makes the point better:

My time spent at UWM has been invaluable. Working with excellent faculty on topics that would have flown over my head a few years ago, talking philosophy into the night with other passionate graduate students, standing alone in a strange and frightening place – the front of a classroom – and emerging energized and confident: all these opportunities confirmed to me that academic philosophy is where I belong.

That stuff shows in your work. Does it ever. And I think (although I suppose I'm yet to find out for sure) that development is worth more when you start your PhD than getting to skip some coursework.

Also, if you want to be teaching, an MA might be enough to at least get started down that road. This obviously depends a lot on location and dumb chance, but still.

 

[Hadeel]

I feel more at home on this thread. The acceptance thread is becoming very difficult now so I am going to lurk here now. 

[currentphilgrad]

 I had kind of a weird experience regarding getting an MA. I went to a Leiter-ranked undergrad that's very highly ranked in my area of interest. I was told by multiple professors that our reputation wasn't good enough so I had to get an MA to be competitive in a PhD program. After hearing the stories of people in MA programs and meeting many people in MA programs, I'm not sure I got the best advice. Having said all that, I LOVED my MA program. I'm not sure I needed to do it, but I'm VERY glad I did.

[metaphysician]

I presume I have been rejected from Arizona. If I am shut out, I will pursue the CELTA (Certificate in English Language Teaching to Adults), move somewhere hot, and reapply in a year or two. 

[awdrgy]

A: Pursue the lifestyle of Karl Marx, writing immense treatises and researching from my apartment while neglecting any semblance of a professional career.

B: Move to another country to learn language (French, Spanish, etc.) and teach English there.

C: Apply again. This was first on my plan B list before I applied, but now I'm sort of wanting to do some real soul searching before moving forward. It was my goal after graduation to take some time to myself, and I don't feel I did enough of that. If I do muster the courage to go for another round, I will first work to murder the GRE, as it is the bane of my existence, probably write an entirely new writing sample, and try to narrow down my list of programs...learning another language wouldn't hurt, but maybe I'd have to take an entire year for that or find some way to intermix plan B and C.

D: Get another Bachelor's degree in either French, Economics, History, Sociology, Mathematics, or Physics...Indecisiveness is the general theme of my life. I think I need to read Sartre or something.

E: Work on creative writing like fiction.

F: Become a librarian.

 

In any case, I'll keep studying, but it is very depressing to feel like there is nowhere to belong. I'm having a tough time finding a job atm or really even finding the enthusiasm to find a category of job to pursue with more interest.

 

It's nice to read others with a more positive outlook and a sense of humor; I wish I could conjure up some humor to deal with this wait. Maybe I'll work on some comedy writing too.

Edited February 9, 2016 by nilfunks

[Glasperlenspieler]

45 minutes ago, nilfunks said:

B: Move to another country to learn language (French, Spanish, etc.) and teach English there.

I'm currently doing this after having been shut out, and I can't recommend it highly enough. I'm actually planning on doing a second year if all goes well and hopefully I can get in somewhere next time around. The only downfall is that for programs in most countries that speak a major language (French, Spanish, German, etc.), you will already need an intermediate level knowledge of the language to be accepted.

[awdrgy]

Just now, DerPhilosoph said:

I'm currently doing this after having been shut out, and I can't recommend it highly enough. I'm actually planning on doing a second year if all goes well and hopefully I can get in somewhere next time around. The only downfall is that for programs in most countries that speak a major language (French, Spanish, German, etc.), you will already need an intermediate level knowledge of the language to be accepted.

I will have to look more into this if my shut out continues throughout the month. I suppose I could try to reach intermediate level before applying. My plan was to switch the time I spent on applications over to studying language and philosophy here soon.

What are some of the better programs in your experience? What are the most preferred languages in these programs?

I appreciate the response!

[Glasperlenspieler]

16 hours ago, nilfunks said:

I will have to look more into this if my shut out continues throughout the month. I suppose I could try to reach intermediate level before applying. My plan was to switch the time I spent on applications over to studying language and philosophy here soon.

What are some of the better programs in your experience? What are the most preferred languages in these programs?

I appreciate the response!

The most prestigious program is of course the Fulbright ETA, but it's also the most competitive. I believe that for countries where Spanish, French, German, Russian, or Chinese is the primary language at least an intermediate degree of proficiency is required, and possibly for a couple other as well. That being said, I think because it is so competitive, that may not always be enough (I was rejected for the Germany ETA twice, although I made it as a finalist the second time around). For other countries, no language proficiency is required, although it would definitely help your application.

There are two programs that I am aware of that are very similar, although not quite as prestigious. A friend of mine is doing TAPIF in France and there's also the USTA Program in Austria, which is what I'm doing right now. I think the TAPIF asks for B1 proficiency and the USTA program asks for an Intermediate-Mid (which is probably slightly higher that a B1 but on a different scale.) As far as I can tell, the main reason for this requirement is that it's quite likely that you will end up in a small town where not much English is spoken. So they want to know that you'll be OK getting around and dealing with administrative stuff. I minored in German and would say that my German proficiency is probably in the top half of my cohort (although I had a very strong program and did lots of extracurricular reading). If you were to start an intensive course right away I'd say it would be plausible to reach B1 by the time you had to apply assuming you work at it and are good with languages. If you were to do this and demonstrate a commitment to continuing your language studies and the rest of your application was strong, then I'd say you'd have a decent chance.

There are probably other programs like these two, but I'm not aware of them.

I also know someone starting a program in the Czech Republic, and as far as I know, she didn't speak any Czech before starting. So it's worth looking for programs like that.

I know a lot of people also go to the far East to teach English (Japan, South Korea, China, Taiwan). I think these jobs tend to pay better than in Europe but many also require a TESOL certificate or the equivalent. I didn't look into this option though.

I'd just say that while I was very disappointed and frustrated after being shut out, especially after two very attractive wait-lists failed to materialize, in hindsight, I'm sort of glad it happened. I think what I've gained being here far outweighs any benefit there is in going straight from undergrad to a graduate program. I also think I'll come back as a much more focused and well qualified applicant. 

Finally, you seem to be leaning towards French. I don't know your reasons for that, but I'd argue that German is more useful for philosophical study (and depending on your interests literature as well). The only possible exception is 20th century continental philosophy, but even then it's probably a coin toss. But learning a language is tough, so in truth you should really pick the one your most interested in. You'll be more motivated this way and that makes a huge difference.

If you have any more questions, especially on specifics, feel free to PM me.

[jacbarcan]

I'm going to write an official blog post soon and post this also in the acceptance and blog threads, but I've asked a fellow applicant to collaborate with me on the blog. This person's role would be to call universities at appropriate times and check on the status of decisions. We hope that by doing this we can alleviate some stress on the applicant side as well as on the side of professors, grad students, or administrators in philosophy departments, the latter by reducing the amount of applicants calling and emailing. 

We never before have done this and it is possible it won't work. If it seems to cause too much trouble, my collaborator may withdraw from the role. 

Please let us know how you feel about this and whether or not you think we should continue with this option.

Best,

Jac

Edited February 10, 2016 by jacbarcan

[Chrysippus'Doge]

22 minutes ago, jacbarcan said:

I'm going to write an official blog post soon and post this also in the acceptance and blog threads, but I've asked a fellow applicant to collaborate with me on the blog. This person's role would be to call universities at appropriate times and check on the status of decisions. We hope that by doing this we can alleviate some stress on the applicant side as well as on the side of professors, grad students, or administrators in philosophy departments, the latter by reducing the amount of applicants calling and emailing. 

We never before have done this and it is possible it won't work. If it seems to cause too much trouble, my collaborator may withdraw from the role. 

Please let us know how you feel about this and whether or not you think we should continue with this option.

Best,

Jac

That would be tremendous. You are a rockstar.

[gughok]

3 hours ago, jacbarcan said:

I'm going to write an official blog post soon and post this also in the acceptance and blog threads, but I've asked a fellow applicant to collaborate with me on the blog. This person's role would be to call universities at appropriate times and check on the status of decisions. We hope that by doing this we can alleviate some stress on the applicant side as well as on the side of professors, grad students, or administrators in philosophy departments, the latter by reducing the amount of applicants calling and emailing. 

We never before have done this and it is possible it won't work. If it seems to cause too much trouble, my collaborator may withdraw from the role. 

Please let us know how you feel about this and whether or not you think we should continue with this option.

Best,

Jac

I would be incredibly surprised but equally grateful if this succeeded. My impression is that admissions committees are not eager to make particularly unambiguous statements concerning where they are in the process, so I would predict that your calls might not get useful answers (and, if multiple calls are made, committee members might grow irritated). But I would appreciate someone at least trying, and if it works that would be all the better.

[jacbarcan]

41 minutes ago, gughok said:

I would be incredibly surprised but equally grateful if this succeeded. My impression is that admissions committees are not eager to make particularly unambiguous statements concerning where they are in the process, so I would predict that your calls might not get useful answers (and, if multiple calls are made, committee members might grow irritated). But I would appreciate someone at least trying, and if it works that would be all the better.

Yeah. Those are my worries too. If they stay ambiguous for a while, we'll just call it off. We definitely wouldn't want to call too many times and wouldn't want to end up making more contact than there already is with applicants. 

[spirograph]

So with some Boulder acceptances having come out today, I'm wondering if anyone has advice for when (how long after the first acceptances) one can usually safely assume one has been rejected by a program? The possibility of not getting an outright notice of rejection is a little unnerving, and not something I'd anticipated when I was applying...

[Archaic_Smile]

Hey all, I have an MA in Classical Archaeology but have only been waitlisted and rejected by schools up to this point. Waiting on 3 more schools, but you know, starting to think about Plan B. Part of me wonders if my languages weren't strong enough in my application. I only took one greek class last year in favor of more archaeology and history classes. I'm wondering if I should get a post bacc or half of a post bacc. Does that sound like a bad plan? Or a ludicrously expensive one?

[FoxAndChicken]

7 minutes ago, Archaic_Smile said:

Hey all, I have an MA in Classical Archaeology but have only been waitlisted and rejected by schools up to this point. Waiting on 3 more schools, but you know, starting to think about Plan B. Part of me wonders if my languages weren't strong enough in my application. I only took one greek class last year in favor of more archaeology and history classes. I'm wondering if I should get a post bacc or half of a post bacc. Does that sound like a bad plan? Or a ludicrously expensive one?

Hi! Are you applying to philosophy? I don't think that's a huge issue in this discipline. Regardless, one of the professors I spoke to recently said that when she applied to graduate school she was rejected from everywhere, took two years at a local community college to learn a couple languages, and then reapplied and got accepted everywhere! She was a history professor, though. Graduate applications can be super random.

[ABrown]

Just got my rejection from U Chicago for the PhD program.  They did think that my application was strong enough to be recommend to their Master of Arts Program in the Humanities; however, I don't think that this program has a lot of funding or fellowships available.