Fall 2017 Applicants

[Yanaka]

Thanks. I wish I had known before I send out my application to Berkeley, but oh well!

[Yanaka]

Duke: application sent! Very excited about this one.

[Caien]

Anyone else experience the sudden certainty that their materials are simply mediocre and there's absolutely nothing you can think of to do about it?

I am the left guinea pig: 

 

Edited December 9, 2016 by Caien

[Yanaka]

I am too. Well it's justified on my part: it's my first round so I've made mistakes, and I am very tempted to try and update some of my documents I sent to Berkeley. 

But it's important that I let go, now. I have other applications to send out and I have finals coming...

[AnimeChic101!]

Don't let these applications eat you up. Submit your best stuff, but don't invest the entirety of your sanity on wether or not school X accepts you. There are so many factors that go into wether or not you'll be accepted. I would leave the application materials as they are @Yanaka  

Edited December 9, 2016 by BlackRosePhD

[RydraWong]

Anyone applying to the same school they did their undergrad at? I would definitely prefer to go to a different place for grad school, but my undergrad program is a good fit for what I want to do and I know the professors here are generally extremely welcoming and kind so I felt like it was worth it to apply. 

Just wondering if anyone was in the same boat of having to draft a SOP and list POIs who are professors they've already worked with/who are writing their letters. I'm starting to edit my SOP for my undergrad school and it feels a bit awkward haha. 

[Yanaka]

Thanks @BlackRosePhD for the encouragement, yes I'll leave them as they are. Plus, the reviews could have started and they might not be able to update my file, so... 

I dreamt Duke sent me an admissions offer and was so excited by my profile that they did so only a few days after I submitted my app. Was an awesome feeling, but I was really disappointed to wake up.  

[angel_kaye13]

On 12/9/2016 at 7:54 PM, RydraWong said:

Anyone applying to the same school they did their undergrad at? I would definitely prefer to go to a different place for grad school, but my undergrad program is a good fit for what I want to do and I know the professors here are generally extremely welcoming and kind so I felt like it was worth it to apply. 

Just wondering if anyone was in the same boat of having to draft a SOP and list POIs who are professors they've already worked with/who are writing their letters. I'm starting to edit my SOP for my undergrad school and it feels a bit awkward haha. 

I haven't done that for my undergrad, but that is the case for my graduate program. I don't think you need to feel awkward at all: if they're the best fit, that's great! Some schools (i.e. Stanford) caution that many undergrads don't get accepted in, due to wanting their students to have fresh ideas and have fresh ideas coming in (or so I seem to recall from their website a few years back, whether truth or not), so that would be the only reason why this might be a concern, in my own opinion. But many of my colleagues are applying for their PhDs at my graduate institution, and if my undergrad had a strong program in Medieval, I'd be there in a heartbeat! No shame at all! I suppose there's the awkwardness of mentioning them in your SOP, but it's mostly just a brief "this is why I'd do well, working with either one of these professors," and so not much to fear being strange. Just present yourself, be confident in your work and where you'd like to go! That's great you have such a strong institution to call home!

[biyutefulphlower]

@RydraWong - Like angle_kaye13 above, I'm going to be applying to a PhD in the same 'system' as my Master's.  (For context, only the CUNY: Graduate Center offers PhDs, so I couldn't go to Brooklyn again if I wanted too.)  My old advisor recommended that I throw his name in my SoP as someone I'd like to work with again, especially since he's writing me a LOR.  Personally, I don't think it's weird.  You'd have to like your advisor and the line of research they do to work with them in the first place, right?  

[AnimeChic101!]

Freaking out about LOR's again. 

[Yanaka]

19 hours ago, BlackRosePhD said:

Freaking out about LOR's again. 

What's up? Are you still waiting for them to submit their LOR's?

I'm taking Columbia off my list. I need to concentrate on my finals, and I just don't have the right feeling with what I'm finding on their websites! 

[AnimeChic101!]

47 minutes ago, Yanaka said:

What's up? Are you still waiting for them to submit their LOR's?

I'm taking Columbia off my list. I need to concentrate on my finals, and I just don't have the right feeling with what I'm finding on their websites! 

Yeah. I've actually had a few programs email to say that they're missing letters. I had another program give me a deadline for when LOR's should be submitted. Another program wanted all the LOR's in by the deadline and my LOR's didn't respond to numerous emails reminding them to pleeeaaassseee upload the letters because if they don't then my app would be thrown out. No response and no submission. I'm actually really upset. If i'm doing everything I need to do, why can't they upload the same letter a few times? 

[LouPlease]

1 hour ago, BlackRosePhD said:

Yeah. I've actually had a few programs email to say that they're missing letters. I had another program give me a deadline for when LOR's should be submitted. Another program wanted all the LOR's in by the deadline and my LOR's didn't respond to numerous emails reminding them to pleeeaaassseee upload the letters because if they don't then my app would be thrown out. No response and no submission. I'm actually really upset. If i'm doing everything I need to do, why can't they upload the same letter a few times? 

Ay yi yi.  I'm so sorry, that is stressful.  Can you maybe solicit a letter from someone else just in case?  Even if it's from an employer or coworker that would be better than nothing, right? They could speak to your character and work ethic. 

Edited December 14, 2016 by LouisePlease

[Dr. Old Bill]

1 hour ago, BlackRosePhD said:

Yeah. I've actually had a few programs email to say that they're missing letters. I had another program give me a deadline for when LOR's should be submitted. Another program wanted all the LOR's in by the deadline and my LOR's didn't respond to numerous emails reminding them to pleeeaaassseee upload the letters because if they don't then my app would be thrown out. No response and no submission. I'm actually really upset. If i'm doing everything I need to do, why can't they upload the same letter a few times? 

Good lord. I wish I could say or do something to help. Really, really sorry to hear about this. I think you have to get in their faces at this point. If they agreed to write for you, and they're not even giving you the common courtesy of responding to emails, maybe they have to see that you're a real, live human being, whose life is being drastically affected by their negligence. I know it's a busy time of year for everyone, but man, this stuff is life-contingent. They should be ashamed.

[AnimeChic101!]

1 hour ago, Wyatt's Terps said:

Good lord. I wish I could say or do something to help. Really, really sorry to hear about this. I think you have to get in their faces at this point. If they agreed to write for you, and they're not even giving you the common courtesy of responding to emails, maybe they have to see that you're a real, live human being, whose life is being drastically affected by their negligence. I know it's a busy time of year for everyone, but man, this stuff is life-contingent. They should be ashamed.

At this point, I'm going to ask for letters from other people. I don't want to burn bridges, because I will be taking courses with all of my recommenders this spring. I'm going to chat with the head of my department and see if he is willing to help me out. It will be super last minute, and I fear that it may make my other recommenders look bad. :/ 

 

I'll send another email tonight. :/

[Dr. Old Bill]

1 minute ago, BlackRosePhD said:

At this point, I'm going to ask for letters from other people. I don't want to burn bridges, because I will be taking courses with all of my recommenders this spring. I'm going to chat with the head of my department and see if he is willing to help me out. It will be super last minute, and I fear that it may make my other recommenders look bad. :/ 

 

I'll send another email tonight. :/

I definitely hear you there, but you also have to look out for yourself in this situation. Many of the deadlines have already passed, and I'm guessing many more for you are coming up in 50 hours. There is such a limited amount of time, that you simply have to get letters however you can. Politely and respectably, of course, but just remember that your recommenders have failed you, not the other way around (I'm assuming there's no more to the story here, obviously). As you know, I was worried about the same thing happening myself until eight days ago, but your writers have gone beyond any reasonable limit. Again, don't worry about your other recommenders looking bad, because in a way they probably should look a bit bad right now. That kind of thing isn't looked upon too kindly by other faculty...

[Yanaka]

Tough situation. I'm sure you'll be ok in the end, hang in there.

Recieved an email from Duke saying that the translations of my transcripts were missing (although they were there): freaked. Received one from Berkeley thanking everyone and congratulating us for our smarts: feaked. Said answers should be before December 1st.

[AnimeChic101!]

It's all good. Emailed can get lost or be confusing. I'll just try to go to their offices in person later on today. I have to TA today, so i'm bound to seem somebody haha.

I slept and i'm less worried now. Sometimes a lack of sleep (hey papers, i'm talking to you) leads to paranoia and and confusion. I'll just chug my coffee and pray it works out. 

[AnimeChic101!]

3 hours ago, BlackRosePhD said:

It's all good. Emailed can get lost or be confusing. I'll just try to go to their offices in person later on today. I have to TA today, so i'm bound to seem somebody haha.

I slept and i'm less worried now. Sometimes a lack of sleep (hey papers, i'm talking to you) leads to paranoia and and confusion. I'll just chug my coffee and pray it works out. 

Gosh, I was obviously half asleep when I wrote this. *Emails and *see

 

Anyways,

thanks for the emotional support!

Edited December 14, 2016 by BlackRosePhD

[Romanista]

14 hours ago, Wyatt's Terps said:

but just remember that your recommenders have failed you, not the other way around (I'm assuming there's no more to the story here, obviously). As you know, I was worried about the same thing happening myself until eight days ago, but your writers have gone beyond any reasonable limit. Again, don't worry about your other recommenders looking bad, because in a way they probably should look a bit bad right now. That kind of thing isn't looked upon too kindly by other faculty...

I had a similar situation last cycle, where a letter writer took about two weeks to respond to my emails, and because of this I missed the December deadlines for some programs I was interested in. The truth is, I could have planned everything earlier but I didn't. I depended on prompt responses, which was kind of unreasonable, and I paid for that by not applying to certain programs.

I'm not saying I don't have sympathy for BlackRosePHD's situation, but what you're saying about how faculty don't appreciate ignoring student emails, this is unprofessional to me, but I don't think that it's necessarily looked down upon. Faculty, at least those that teach graduate students, are assessed based on research, not helping mentor graduate students. Ideally faculty should do both, but if they can't, if they are too busy, well then research always takes priority. I'm not saying this is the best way but this is the way it actually happens. 

Let's just say for the sake of argument that the professors BlackRosePHD asked for LORs are each of them working on an upcoming deadline for a journal article in a prestigious publication. The correct way to deal with that situation would be to get the articles submitted, and then deal with the LORs, if there's time left. If there's no time to do both, it is unacceptable to put writing LORs over research. Because the graduate student could have always asked for a LOR at an earlier time, but the journal submission deadline is firm.

Part of the problem with the unprofessional argument is that it depends on BlackRosePHD complaining to someone about how her LOR writers weren't helpful. She's a graduate student and TA, which means she has less clout than other people in the department. But the complaint shows that there's a problem. I didn't complain about how one of my letter writers wasn't particularly helpful. If a graduate student doesn't complain about unprofessional LOR writers, does the department have a problem? Probably not, because I assume that faculty spend more time discussing and dwelling on research instead of service. Writing LORs is not completely formulaic, but it's certainly more formulaic than composing essays about one's scholarly interests.

Edited December 14, 2016 by Romanista

[Romanista]

I want to clarify that I'm not suggesting that BlackRosePHD was lazy like I was. I'm just saying that if her unprofessional LOR writers have research to do, then that will always take priority, and I'm not convinced that the department would chastise faculty for putting research in front of service, even if it harms a graduate student's professional development.

Edited December 14, 2016 by Romanista

[Bumblebea]

34 minutes ago, Romanista said:

I'm not saying I don't have sympathy for BlackRosePHD's situation, but what you're saying about how faculty don't appreciate ignoring student emails, this is unprofessional to me, but I don't think that it's necessarily looked down upon. Faculty, at least those that teach graduate students, are assessed based on research, not helping mentor graduate students. Ideally faculty should do both, but if they can't, if they are too busy, well then research always takes priority. I'm not saying this is the best way but this is the way it actually happens. 

Let's just say for the sake of argument that the professors BlackRosePHD asked for LORs are each of them working on an upcoming deadline for a journal article in a prestigious publication. The correct way to deal with that situation would be to get the articles submitted, and then deal with the LORs, if there's time left. If there's no time to do both, it is unacceptable to put writing LORs over research. Because the graduate student could have always asked for a LOR at an earlier time, but the journal submission deadline is firm.

I don't know the "backstory" here, but I do want to emphasize that writing recommendation letters is part of any professor's job. No, it's not something they get immediate credit for (much like serving on a dissertation committee--only the chair really gets credit for that), but it's something they're expected to do nonetheless. And many take pride in it. If you're a professor, you get a little bit of prestige by circulating letters to your colleagues at other programs. Failing to come through for your grad students isn't a career-limiting gesture, but it certainly won't win you any friends in your department (especially among other professors expected to pick up the slack), and it might even get you in trouble with the DGS (who wants to promote a solid program and place students in good places). 

Beyond that--yes, publishing is more important for a professor's career advancement. But that still does not give them the right to promise to write a letter of recommendation and then not come through for that student. If these professors promised to write letters and promised to have them in by these particular deadlines, then it's really not right for them to renege on this promise, regardless of when the student asked. 

I often write letters for students--not for graduate school but for on-campus activities and internships and what-not--and I would be horrified if I cost them an opportunity by missing a deadline, even if the student was somewhat late with their request. (If a professor feels a student has approached them too close to a deadline, then it is their job to say "I can't do this for you because of the last-minute nature of this request.") We all have articles to write and revisions to turn in. But that doesn't give us the right to promise things and then just flake out. It's not right. 

[Romanista]

1 hour ago, Bumblebea said:

But that still does not give them the right to promise to write a letter of recommendation and then not come through for that student. If these professors promised to write letters and promised to have them in by these particular deadlines, then it's really not right for them to renege on this promise, regardless of when the student asked. 

I often write letters for students--not for graduate school but for on-campus activities and internships and what-not--and I would be horrified if I cost them an opportunity by missing a deadline, even if the student was somewhat late with their request. (If a professor feels a student has approached them too close to a deadline, then it is their job to say "I can't do this for you because of the last-minute nature of this request.") We all have articles to write and revisions to turn in. But that doesn't give us the right to promise things and then just flake out. It's not right. 

I agree with this but my experience has been that it just doesn't work this way. As long as the system is in place in which a university grants tenure in exchange for excellent research and a token level of professionalism in teaching and mentoring, there will always be professors that shirk their mentoring and service responsibilities. And if they get tenure despite this, they actually get rewarded in a way. Once they get a reputation for not being helpful about LORs and stuff like that, graduate students spread the word and PhD applicants just avoid these faculty. And if a professor spends a year not writing a single LOR (regardless of whether they were asked or not), will they get in trouble? I doubt it. If they have tenure, they may not be the most popular person in the office, but that doesn't detract from their research because research in the humanities is usually an individual process. The system may not aim to protect unprofessional faculty who are good researchers, but it does precisely that.

Also, these shirking faculty can always reason away their unprofessionalism by saying something like, this is what the real world is like, if you want to be an academic you will have to deal with being micromanaged by your department chair and the administration. Being unfair to graduate students, these professors might argue, prepares them for for tenure track life. 

[Bumblebea]

6 minutes ago, Romanista said:

I agree with this but my experience has been that it just doesn't work this way. As long as the system is in place in which a university grants tenure in exchange for excellent research and a token level of professionalism in teaching and mentoring, there will always be professors that shirk their mentoring and service responsibilities. And if they get tenure despite this, they actually get rewarded in a way. Once they get a reputation for not being helpful about LORs and stuff like that, graduate students spread the word and PhD applicants just avoid these faculty. And if a professor spends a year not writing a single LOR (regardless of whether they were asked or not), will they get in trouble? I doubt it. If they have tenure, they may not be the most popular person in the office, but that doesn't detract from their research because research in the humanities is usually an individual process. The system may not aim to protect unprofessional faculty who are good researchers, but it does precisely that.

But P&T decisions, even at R1 schools, also depend on a professor's mentoring and teaching abilities. In fact, mentoring graduate students often comes up in promotion meetings. I know there are rock star professors out there who publish the It Book of the Decade and then get away with being the literal worst to grad students and colleagues, but I think that situation is pretty rare. When my faculty mentors went up for promotion, they had to put together dossiers that featured not only their many publications but also the number of dissertations they chaired and the success of those students. In fact, placing successful graduate students in TT jobs is hugely important to a lot of faculty. It cements their reputation in the department, and more importantly in the field. (Yes, professors do get a huge ego boost out of having mentored a rising star--at conferences, junior scholars are almost always referred to as so-and-so's advisee.) And you don't attract successful graduate students if you can't be counted on to turn in recommendation letters on time at the other end of the process.

17 minutes ago, Romanista said:

Also, these shirking faculty can always reason away their unprofessionalism by saying something like, this is what the real world is like, if you want to be an academic you will have to deal with being micromanaged by your department chair and the administration. Being unfair to graduate students, these professors might argue, prepares them for for tenure track life. 

I don't think that's really accurate. For the reasons I explained above, I've never seen a professor fail a student and then reason away their failure with "life's just unfair like that, oh well, you'll see." In fact, if anyone is currently experiencing this kind of behavior at a program, I would urge you to get out now. I mean, yes, I've had recommenders fail to come through for me, but it was never out of malice or spite or arrogance. It was always an oversight that they felt very bad about afterwards. 

[Romanista]

27 minutes ago, Bumblebea said:

But P&T decisions, even at R1 schools, also depend on a professor's mentoring and teaching abilities. In fact, mentoring graduate students often comes up in promotion meetings. I know there are rock star professors out there who publish the It Book of the Decade and then get away with being the literal worst to grad students and colleagues, but I think that situation is pretty rare. When my faculty mentors went up for promotion, they had to put together dossiers that featured not only their many publications but also the number of dissertations they chaired and the success of those students. In fact, placing successful graduate students in TT jobs is hugely important to a lot of faculty. It cements their reputation in the department, and more importantly in the field. (Yes, professors do get a huge ego boost out of having mentored a rising star--at conferences, junior scholars are almost always referred to as so-and-so's advisee.) And you don't attract successful graduate students if you can't be counted on to turn in recommendation letters on time at the other end of the process.

I don't think that's really accurate. For the reasons I explained above, I've never seen a professor fail a student and then reason away their failure with "life's just unfair like that, oh well, you'll see." In fact, if anyone is currently experiencing this kind of behavior at a program, I would urge you to get out now. I mean, yes, I've had recommenders fail to come through for me, but it was never out of malice or spite or arrogance. It was always an oversight that they felt very bad about afterwards. 

I haven't actually seen a professor defend unprofessional behavior in that way, I'm just saying that I could see a professor doing that for two reasons. First, the academic job market is difficult, so prospective tenure track applicants have to put up with things they don't like because there are so few TT offers in comparison to PhD holders. Second, the line between what a graduate student should accept and what a graduate student should complain about is thin. It's ambiguous, sort of like how graduate students aren't employees even though they do labor for the department.

But as an example of what I said in my previous post about how some professors are avoided because of their lack of interest in service work, our department had an assistant professor leave last spring. I don't know why she left exactly, because I never took any of her classes. She had a reputation for being an excellent, responsive mentor who was also a strong researcher and an interesting teacher.

Word got around that she was more helpful than the other professors and so a lot of students wanted her to serve on their committees. In her five years at my program, she was either a committee member or the chair of 26 masters theses and 2 doctoral dissertations.

I can't speculate about why she left, but when you have a system where professors can get away with doing the bare minimum about service work, particularly when they are tenured, what happens is that work is passed onto others that care more about service work.

If anything, this isolated example shows that academia should continue to reward service work, and I'm glad that you've seen this happen in a way that isn't minimal.

Edited December 14, 2016 by Romanista