GPA woes & despondency

[onerepublic96]

Hi all, 

I have posted here before on other issues (thank you so much for all of your comments, by the way!) so some may remember me–I'm an undergrad junior in the middle of a leap from medicine to English literature. One of my chief concerns is my GPA... I'm majoring in the sciences, as it had been drilled into me by my parents–since middle school, if not earlier–that I must become a doctor. Now, however, I'm realizing all too late that medicine is not at all where my passions lie, and I would rather pursue a graduate degree in English lit. Here's the thing, though: I performed decently well in my first year, but in my second year of undergrad I got involved in a lot of extracurriculars, my science classes suddenly became much more challenging, and I suffered from my time management issues quite terribly (GPA was 2.62 in the first semester and 3.08 in the second). This was due entirely to my poor performance in courses like Calculus or Orgo or Neuroscience. Since that year, I've gotten over my time management failures and improved drastically (3.84 GPA last semester, looking to be similar this semester as well). 

I've spoken to some of my advisors but keep getting different input – some say since the low GPA is due to my science courses and thus won't be weighed as heavily by admission committees, others say it looks too bad nevertheless, and my chances at a top PhD program are slim. I had some hope in the beginning, for I have always done well in my English courses and rationalized the low GPA as, to some degree, irrelevant to these subjects... and I planned to also pursue an MA first, to give me more experience (since I wasn't an English major) and dilute my poor undergrad performance with my grad experience... but now after following several threads here and seeing the admission statistics, I'm losing hope completely... Students are applying with GPAs in the 3.90s and being rejected... 

I guess I'm just looking for some input. Would the MA really not be enough to give me a little push upward? To help counter that one awful year of undergrad? Should I just give up hope for any shot at one of the top PhD programs?

I can't even express how much I regret that one year... I know this sounds incredibly melodramatic, but it truly feels like it's beginning to ruin my life

 

(apologies for the extra long post)

Edited February 23, 2017 by onerepublic96

[Dr. Old Bill]

I could write a long post, but I think my basic suggestion is succinct: go for the M.A. first. Doing well in an M.A. program can go a long way toward eradicating deficiencies like a low GPA in an undergraduate institution. There aren't many funded M.A. programs (you'll be able to find several threads listing many of the funded options if you search), but depending on your circumstances, if you really want to go the Ph.D. route, you're probably not going to pass muster with a substandard GPA when applying with only a B.A. It's possible, but you'd be a definite outlier in a process where the odds are long to begin with.

Even if you go to a mediocre program for your M.A. and do good work, that should significantly boost your chances. Your chances will never be high, but that's only because no one's chances are ever particularly high.

Just one man's opinion / advice. Hope it helps.

 

[JessicaLange]

I agree with @Wyatt's Terps because I don't have the best GPA and I've done much better with MA programs than PhD this season. However, you can explain in your application that you switched majors and why your GPA isn't great. They'll take your major GPA into account so make sure you are doing well in all of your English classes. If I could go back, I would still apply to some PhD programs, but I would focus more upon MA programs.

[brontebitch]

It is really a crapshoot because, as you're seeing, even very good applicants get turned away. I am an applicant with a BA only and have been rejected from 3 PhD programs and recently accepted to one MA program, but my GPA and overall application is very competitive. From my experience, I think that having an MA can only help you, not only if you don't have a strong undergraduate record, but it also proves that you are a dedicated student and a worthy investment. PhD programs provide a lot of security and funding, so they want to know that you will be successful. My professors have told me that a likely reason for me getting shut out is because of my age, lack of experience, etc. There could be other factors OF COURSE but I think that this is for sure part of it. I would definitely recommend applying for MA programs to show you are dedicated and can excel in the field you want to pursue. Getting an MA would only help you if your ultimate goal is the PhD because it does make your application stronger in a lot of ways. 

[chellyfish_]

I'm another supporting the MA.  Coming out of an MA with a 4.0 or something close, if you also have a good English GPA in undergrad, will really help validate the fact that it was the medicine classes that brought your BA GPA down.  Also, they'll be putting much more weight on your writing sample/SoP and how you fit with their program than on GPA (though of course, it does still matter).  A slightly lower GPA with a strong fit seems more likely to get in than a 4.0 with a shaky fit.  Going that extra step to get the MA first may seem like you're dragging your time out, but it really does help.

[ProfessionalNerd]

1 hour ago, natalielouise said:

 My professors have told me that a likely reason for me getting shut out is because of my age, lack of experience, etc. There could be other factors OF COURSE but I think that this is for sure part of it. I would definitely recommend applying for MA programs to show you are dedicated and can excel in the field you want to pursue. Getting an MA would only help you if your ultimate goal is the PhD because it does make your application stronger in a lot of ways. 

I first applied to PhD programs when I was 20. I got into a MA and was waitlisted at a PhD program (which I have gotten into this time around). People told me that I probably didn't get in for two reasons: a weak research focus and my age. I've since aged (obviously haha) and have developed a really defined and interesting area of research. What i'm getting at is that MA programs can really help your mature and prepare for a PhD. It gives you the time to really articulate and pursue your interests. I would personally advise that you go for the MA. Certainly try for the PhD, but a MA is just as good a starting place as any 

Edited February 23, 2017 by ProfessionalNerd

[orphic_mel528]

Don't despair.

My very first post on GC was all about this very same thing. I started UG as a pre-veterinary medicine major, switched to psychology, had a major health crisis, and ended with what would likely be considered an abysmal GPA. The health crisis also prompted a complete withdrawal for an entire semester, so I have an entire semester of Ws on my undergrad transcripts. And all of this for another discipline, too. My undergraduate transcripts look like the Pismo Beach Disaster, for real.

I did an MA in English, not just because I needed to in order to change careers, but also because I knew that if I ever wanted to go for a PhD, I would need a stronger GPA than my undergraduate one.

My MA was not completed at what might be called a prestigious program: it's a small program at a large public university. Please don't think that this will hold you back: fellow graduates from my cohort are now attending schools like UC Berkeley, Columbia, and Purdue, among others. So if there's a school near you that offers an MA in English, don't hesitate to apply there because you think it will hold you back in the future. 

To be frank: You will likely have a much decreased chance at getting into a top 20 MA program, but as I hope I've made clear, you don't need to go to a prestigious MA program to get into a prestigious PhD program. You need to get ballin' grades, yes, but I really and truly feel this PhD game is about fit and resources as much as it is about numbers.

I hope she doesn't mind me saying this, but  @imogenshakes is a really great example of this. She's gunning for a clean sweep out of 8 very selective programs, and it's not that she doesn't have ballin' grades and test scores, but as you can see from the results board, there are people with higher scores getting rejected from programs that imogen got into. So we can surmise that it's not just a numbers game--it's about your CV, writing sample, and your SOP, too.  Doing an amazing job at demonstrating your writing ability and showing who you are and how you fit into a program is even more important than the numbers.  

[positivitize]

I'm coming to this late, and can only echo what other's have said.

I failed out of undergraduate after an existential crisis, a family crisis, the selling of my childhood home, and crippling depression all happened at the end of one semester. But, worse than that, I didn't realize I'd failed out until a semester after I should have just thrown in the towel. I have 30 credit hours of 0s (not Ws, not D's) on my transcript. It took 7 years, but I finally pulled myself up by my own bootstraps (with the love and support of an amazing partner) and got back into the same school I failed out of. It was a constant concern, but over the course of 2 years, I managed to pull my Cumulative GPA up to a 3.02. 

I know exactly where you are coming from. Having a crummy GPA that doesn't reflect your abilities and limits your choices really sucks. What sucks even more is that there are programs out there which will toss your application away immediately. In a rejection from last year, a DGS told me that although their English department wanted to admit me, there was a hang-up with the Graduate School due to my low GPA. They moved on to another candidate that didn't require additional paperwork/campaigning. She suggested that I earn (pay for) my Masters degree at a small state school with rolling admissions. 

This year, I'm having much better luck even though my GPA is the same. My writing sample is the same but more polished. My SoP is entirely revamped. The biggest change to my applications is the number of schools to which I've applied. Last year, I applied to less than 3 programs. This year, my original number was 16. I cast a much wider net even though I only applied to R1 schools that fund MA students. The large net worked. I've been offered acceptance to a strong MA program, and, to my surprise, I've been waitlisted at a top 20~ PhD program. It can be done. Writing Samples, CV's, Letters, SoPs, Good GRE scores, and Teaching Statements CAN overrule a bad GPA. But it's hell to do and the GPA still haunts me. That same DGS I mentioned earlier told me that often GPA is tied directly to funding opportunities, and, as I sit and wait for my funding options, I'm still kicking myself for my GPA.

I guess what I'm saying is that GPA matters but can be overcome. A 4.0 at a Masters program at a less prestigious university is one way to overcome it. Sometimes miracles do happen and you can get in at a good place with a bad GPA, but you will have to work hard and your GPA will shadow you for a while.

"Not only do some committee members rule out applicants with anything less than a 3.5, but the Graduate School also restricts our ability to admit students with low undergraduate GPAs. Most importantly, funding, in the form of TA-ships and research support, is often tied to a minimum GPA." - DGS 

TL;DR: Admission to a Masters or a PhD is possible with a low GPA, but your GPA will haunt you until you prove you can handle graduate work. You can do it!

[imogenshakes]

5 hours ago, orphic_mel528 said:

My MA was not completed at what might be called a prestigious program: it's a small program at a large public university. Please don't think that this will hold you back: fellow graduates from my cohort are now attending schools like UC Berkeley, Columbia, and Purdue, among others. So if there's a school near you that offers an MA in English, don't hesitate to apply there because you think it will hold you back in the future. 

To be frank: You will likely have a much decreased chance at getting into a top 20 MA program, but as I hope I've made clear, you don't need to go to a prestigious MA program to get into a prestigious PhD program. You need to get ballin' grades, yes, but I really and truly feel this PhD game is about fit and resources as much as it is about numbers.

I hope she doesn't mind me saying this, but  @imogenshakes is a really great example of this. She's gunning for a clean sweep out of 8 very selective programs, and it's not that she doesn't have ballin' grades and test scores, but as you can see from the results board, there are people with higher scores getting rejected from programs that imogen got into. So we can surmise that it's not just a numbers game--it's about your CV, writing sample, and your SOP, too.  Doing an amazing job at demonstrating your writing ability and showing who you are and how you fit into a program is even more important than the numbers.  

I don't mind at all, Mel. In fact, thanks for calling my attention to this thread. 

Everything you say is right; I've said this in other places, as well, but I REALLY truly believe that fit and a good overall application is what matters most with applications. I got my BA and my MA from the same university, in much the same situation as what Mel outlines (small program, large third-tier public uni). A friend from my cohort is now at a top-10 university, and I've been accepted to 7 out of the 8 programs I applied to (four of which are top-30 programs). The odds were stacked against me in particular (for various reasons), but something apparently worked. I don't for one second think that you should close yourself off to the idea that you could make it into a great PhD program. I do think it's a good idea to pursue an MA first; not just for the GPA boost, but also because it will give you time to craft an amazing writing sample and SOP, refine your research interests, work with faculty who can speak to your ability to do excellent graduate work in English, and to build your CV with conferences/talks/teaching (potentially)/etc. 

 

[ExponentialDecay]

So like what's your GPA tho?

idk, there's a lot of factors here, because there are a lot of factors to a graduate application. Outside of the substantive, SOP and WS, once your GPA is middling-to-poor, the other markers of your app will influence its outcome: major GPA, upward trend, undergrad prestige, letters, CV items, and so on. Some professors don't care about out-major classes, some professors think you need to be comatose to graduate undergrad with anything under a 3.5. Some professors will care about your math GRE. It's idiosyncratic. That one applicant got dinged by one program for having a 3.0 tells you more about the applicant and the program than about the process of admissions itself.

Your advisor/other mentors should be able to help you here, because they know your application and ideally where you stand with respect to your competition. They can put in a good word for you somewhere if they really want to. 

[Abyss21]

I'm also going to echo what many people have said so far - go for the MA. A friend of mine was in a similar position; they earned a science degree but got poor marks towards the end of it because of a health crisis and then did very well in their second degree, which was English. However, the low grades from the first (science) degree were a concern when my friend applied for an MA and later a PhD. In Canada, it's customary to get your MA before getting your PhD so that wasn't really a question. However, the key thing that my friend did to make sure that the grades from the first didn't negatively affect their chances of getting in to the programs is emailing the program directors of each program to which they applied to clarify the grade issue. There were mixed opinions on whether or not that was a good idea in the first place but it actually proved to be a very wise decision because contacting the program directors allowed my friend to explain themselves and gain empathy from the individual who is probably the most crucial in the decision-making process of the graduate committee. So, if there's any advice I can give you, it would be to email the grad program director of the programs you want to get into and introduce yourself as well as explain your situation. It will give them a valid explanation for those grades and will humanize you in their eyes, allowing them to vouch for you during the grad committee meetings.

[onerepublic96]

Thank you all so much for the replies! I've been in this funk all week and seeing your words of advice and encouragement has definitely lifted some of the weight off my chest. Ever since I even began thinking about making this change, I've considered an MA program a near-must, not merely for the GPA boost but, more importantly, for the experience it will offer. It's helpful to know that others think this is the best decision, as well. 

[acidtooth]

this wasn't even my thread but as someone who just got rejected from all the phd programs she applied to, and is holding out hope to be accepted to the one MA english program !!) this offers me a lot of comfort! such a supportive and kind community, gosh.