Not-Straight-From-Undergrads?

[NervousNellie]

I am applying for a masters program for the fall. I completed my undergrad program 8-10 years ago depending on the exact measure.

Every once-in-a-while in the process, I get twinges of mild regret about not having gone straight from undergrad to grad studies. I wouldn't trade the last decade for the world, of course. I've been raising my kids and also doing amazing work in my career. I've learned a TON! So it isn't real jealousy, but just these twinges I feel. In "real life" I am very focused on the positive, but I think I need to vent/whine for a second...and what I am really looking for is to know that I am not totally alone on this.

First, I am not as "sharp" as I was in the days of undergrad. I don't remember things as easily (complicated by a neurological issue that has developed, but I suspect also in part because of lack of academic study for some time and a little age thrown in the mix). I don't think or write as quickly.

My writing skills have gone way down despite doing work that involves a lot of writing. I certainly am not experienced anymore with academic writing. And now I also have many more typos, etc.

I already feel way behind the times in terms of technology. I know many folks my age have kept up, but I still don't have a cell phone (and I'm really not that old).

I had to go through heck to locate a professor, who did fortunately remember me well and agree to write me a strong letter of recommendation, but she seems to have disappeared off the face of the planet and deadlines have come and gone. Sure would make it nice to be seeing her daily and to nag her in person instead of trying to time emails just right and then wondering if she's received them...or if something has happened to her.

Due to turnover in my undergrad program, I could not locate the two professors required by two of the programs for letters of recommendation.

There is a lot I don't remember. While I can (but don't generally choose to) run circles around an undergrad actually trying to apply their learnings to the world, when the undergrads start quoting philosophers, despite doing work in which I read and reference philosophers, I still have to go look up names half the time before I can rejoin the conversation.

I have not kept up with reading the way I used to, not because I don't LOVE it (I do) but because my children especially have been all encompassing for a few years. (I know, I know...no excuse...lots of folks still keep up, but I didn't and boohoo on me.)

I don't have professors to read over my statement of purpose and give me tips (though I do appreciate my attorney friends who actually enjoyed lending a hand).

I studied for the GRE while balancing several major deadlines at work AND negotiating special needs services at the public school for my son AND going to therapy with my daughter AND breaking up fights between my children AND fitting in quality time with my kids AND surviving my marriage nearly falling apart at the seams while I tried to have it all AND AND AND...

I couldn't locate my fantastic undergrad research paper that I worked on pain-stakingly for a semester, edited weekly by one of my profs. I know I saved it. Don't know where it is.

Writing college papers on the fly to submit with my application just seemed to really put me at a disadvantage when I know that a lot of folks are submitting fresh stuff.

Okay, I promise this is it for whining. I have a LOT to be thankful for.

Edited February 1, 2010 by NervousNellie

[UnlikelyGrad]

Every once-in-a-while in the process, I get twinges of mild regret about not having gone straight from undergrad to grad studies... what I am really looking for is to know that I am not totally alone on this.

You aren't alone.

My thoughts when I started the process: http://unlikelygrad.wordpress.com/2009/01/13/go-back-to-school-girl/

Now, I'm glad I'm older:

http://unlikelygrad.wordpress.com/2009/11/23/the-difference-between-an-old-grad-student-and-a-young-one/

[joro]

I'm not as old as any of you and I'd probably be considered young, but I sure wish I did graduate studies right out of undergrad.

[kent shakespeare]

Time away from school can be an asset.

Yes, you haven't kept up on the books and spelling may have atrophied, but you bring skills and experience to the table that even the brightest 22-year-olds don't have. Life experience carries plenty of weight in ability to handle grad school, even if there are a wunderkind or three in your cohort. Everyone is coming in with different ranges of ability and experience; you are not alone in this (I'm 41).

Even if your app for fall has a few blemishes, hits some snags or just plain fails to impress (remember, I said "if", not "when"), don't be discouraged - take the extra time to get your feet wet again. Take a comm college class or two just for the experience (and to get a new prof recommendation); you'll see you get back in the driver's seat quickly enough. That'll also give you time to find that research paper - or even write a new one.

That you have gone to the efforts you have to get back to school says volumes. Don't fret the details; it'll happen, even if this app cycle seems a bit out of sorts.

[Lantern]

Everyone is entitled to a vent every now and then, and I certainly understand the notion of not wanting to be alone in a certain thought or situation. One thing you can't do is start over at 22, so put it behind you and do your best now. Maybe your mind isn't quite as sharp as it used to be, but think of the maturity that you have gained. Although you may have very serious responsibilities now (like a marriage and kids!), I'm guessing you have gained more focus and better time management skills.

I graduated from college 12 years ago. In that time I have traveled, volunteered, worked many, many, many jobs, and finally found what I want to do. I wouldn't change that. I can honestly say I'm glad I didn't go to grad school right out of college. I just wasn't ready, and it never crossed my mind. To wish that I would have gone then would be to wish I were a completely different person, which is useless.

Several professors that I spoke with in person during my grad school explorations told me they prefer older students due to their maturity and focus. I realize this may not be the same in all disciplines, so I'm not trying to speak for all, just offering a different point of view. And to those of you straight out of college, I am not trying to make you feel as though you are at a disadvantage. I'm just saying that everyone brings something different to grad school depending on who they are, and what kind of background they have.

I'm sure every age group, not to mention every individual, has their own challenges, so let's just hope that we all get accepted to our first choices, and get to work on those challenges!

Edited February 2, 2010 by Lantern

[UnlikelyGrad]

Nellie, you truly are not alone. I graduated in 03, which should have been 02. I'm a dinosaur.

You're a dinosaur? Really? I graduated in 1993 (should have been 1992).

[Katzenmusik]

I'm 26. After college I just wanted to get out of the institutional setting and live life according to my own directives! Which I have done! Traveling, music, writing, working bad jobs that paid a little, working bad jobs that paid a lot... the past five years have all been a crazy & interesting experience. Not academic, but educational.

It was important to me to go out into the world and prove to myself that I could survive and sustain myself in any circumstance. Now I'm ready to go back to academia for a little while, and in fact, I'll appreciate it more and derive more value from it. I would not have been ready or willing to commit to a standard academic program in 2005. Glad I waited.

[rogue]

I'm "old," too: 36. And I feel like now is exactly the right time for me to go back to school.

I knew in high school that I wanted to get a Ph.D., teach college and research (probably partly because my dad was a prof). I just didn't know what I wanted to focus on. Undergrad didn't really give me a much clearer picture of what interested me enough to devote my life to studying it.

I took a year off between undergrad (graduated in '96) and my MBA ('99). I really only went back to get the MBA because I hated working and my dad offered to pay for it--he thought it would be practical and help me get the more lucrative jobs my artsy-fartsy (aka awesome, in my book) liberal arts education wasn't. I think he missed the part where I wasn't applying for those jobs because they didn't appeal to me in the least. And I let him miss it, because, hey, he was offering a free ride for two more years.

My performance in that program left something to be desired, both because I wasn't fully committed to grad school and because I came into the program with hardly any real world experience, which is probably helpful in any grad program but is CRUCIAL for an MBA. I'm not sure why I got an MBA, other than that the opportunity presented itself. I hate the corporate world.

After that sobering experience, I decided I couldn't even think about going for a Ph.D. until I figured out what really lit my fire, intellectually speaking. It took another nine years or so of working soul-draining corporate jobs to figure that out (so at least my MBA came in handy then), and then another year after that to get my act together and apply. (I sat last year's application cycle out hoping the real estate market would improve and I could unload my house.)

Anyway, I now know what I want and I am committed to going for it. That's a far cry from where I was in those first post-undergrad years. Do I wish I had figured it all out sooner? Yeah, because then I could've spent more time doing stuff I liked instead of stuff I didn't. But I'm really glad I took the time to sort out what was right for me, and I think I'll be more successful as a result.

I agree with other forumites--we all bring something unique to the table, whether it's youthful energy or valuable experience. And somewhere, at least one program is going to be looking for exactly what you have to offer.

[qberta]

i've also had those twinges of regret for not applying straight out of undergrad. after all, who doesn't want to be a child prodigy? i think especially in the nervousness of waiting, it can be easy to second-guess every single life decision that impacts your profile as an applicant.

but most of the time, i think, thank god i've had these years to muddle around & hellraise & sharpen my interests & use completely different skill sets. especially in the age of increasing specialization & the cult of expertise, i think it's useful to be a generalist and have a wide range of experiences/knowledge bases/other fields to draw from. i think my scholarship benefits from it as well.

[hamster]

I'm glad I took time off. and glad I didn't go straight from undergrad but I sure do wish it had been 6 or 7 years max instead of 13.

[grammercie]

I graduated from undergrad in 1995 and just finished my M.Div. last year. The average age of my class was 23. I was 34. I am so glad I DIDN'T go to grad school right out of college! Life and work experience made a nice background to the large chunks of information I was suddenly inhaling. It took the first year to get back in the swing of it all, and then the next 2 were a pleasure.

If you don't get in this year, take a class or two at a nearby college to get your academic references. I didn't have a single professor who could have remembered me from my large, generic, undergrad classes from so many years before. So I took an extension class offered through a seminary, and the professor was delighted with my work and to write a reference. Also, taking that class helped me be confident that I could do grad school work.

And now I'm jonesing to do a PhD, which I swore I'd never do

[varekai1018]

I finished my undergrad in English Lit in 2001, and could not be happier that I took time off after finishing the degree. My first year out, I participated in a year-long volunteer program (similar to AmeriCorps), which was where I figured out who it was that I wanted to be when I grew up. I took a few more years to explore the public health field a bit more, and had the most amazing adventures while sorting out my life - worked on different public health-related issues (HIV/AIDS, malaria, violence) in a few countries on a few different continents. When I went back for my MA/MPH, I made sure to choose programs (and fields) that allowed me to have a foot in the practice world, just because I'm someone who needs that sort of balance. Now I'm 31 and applying for the DrPH after another couple of years away from school (though the DrPH does require significant public health work experience - so it's different from other degrees in that sense).

For me, the time away helped me develop the context to frame what I want to learn, and I wouldn't trade that for anything. From time to time I find myself just a wee bit jealous of the unwavering optimism displayed by younger cohort members - but then I remind myself that it's that optimism that got me into public health to begin with (I'm sure not in it for the money!), so it's refreshing in the end.

Edited February 12, 2010 by varekai1018

[fuzzylogician]

I'll probably be considered young here, but: on the one hand, I wish I could have started my degree at 22 and finished at 27, instead of only just starting at 27. On the other, I wouldn't give up the experiences I gained in those intervening years for anything. I'm so much more focused and driven now that I ever was at 22. So yeah, if I could do everything at the same time it would have been nice. But otherwise I'm happy with the choices I've made.

Edited February 12, 2010 by fuzzylogician

[peppermint.beatnik]

I'll probably be considered young here, but: on the one hand, I wish I could have started my degree at 22 and finished at 27, instead of only just starting at 27. On the other, I wouldn't give up the experiences I gained in those intervening years for anything. I'm so much more focused and driven now that I ever was at 22. So yeah, if I could do everything at the same time it would have been nice. But otherwise I'm happy with the choices I've made.

This is totally off-topic, but ever since you put up the cat avatar, I imagine this cat typing responses, imbued with esoteric knowledge, in an MIT lab. You know, like the magic cat Salem on a show I watched when I was younger, "Sabrina the Teenage Witch."

The username "fuzzylogician" adds to image.

[pea-jay]

I'm oddly halfway between the shoulda gone to school right away and finished vs wait the 14 odd years or so. I'm definitely ready and know what I want out of grad school, but there is this 4 year period of my life from 97 to 01 where I got sucked into the the technology sector which I had zero qualifications for or interest in. But they were hiring like crazy out here in Cali and the pay was too good to pass up until I became dependent on it. I worked until I got downsized out in 01 and got my real career going in 2002. It's those years I want back.

ah well

[fuzzylogician]

This is totally off-topic, but ever since you put up the cat avatar, I imagine this cat typing responses, imbued with esoteric knowledge, in an MIT lab. You know, like the magic cat Salem on a show I watched when I was younger, "Sabrina the Teenage Witch."

The username "fuzzylogician" adds to image.

That post just made my day!

Cats rule

(even clearly fake talking ones)

[Branwen daughter of Llyr]

I wasn't exactly a spring chicken when I graduated from college in 2001 (I was 29, I only started when I was 22, and my undergrad was a long, rambling story, including a major change, and two moves - one to NYC, and one back to Virginia).

Then I moved back to Israel because the job market crashed, and I found myself working at Starbucks with my honors degree in English lit. I probably should have stayed in the states and applied to grad school, but that's all water under the bridge now.

So I'm nearly 38 and applying to direct-track PhD's.

But I'm actually glad I have all that life experience under my belt. I've worked as a Tech writer, so my writing skills have actually improved, I've taught ESL, so I know I love teaching (just not ESL. I want to teach Lit), and I've worked in a lot of different fields. After eight and a half years, I came to one, single conclusion. What I love is academia. I get a buzz just being in this forum and having amazing discourse with other like minded people, whose greatest passion is learning, researching, and teaching the subject they love.

So, in a way, there are minor twinges of regret - but mostly... I'm glad I'm applying now. I have an odd feeling that I would have messed things up in my early thirties - I had to go through everything else before really daring to really commit to my dream, to what I love, rather than "being practical" (which didn't work out too well, anyway).

[Branwen daughter of Llyr]

That post just made my day!

Cats rule

(even clearly fake talking ones)

All cats rule, clearly fake talking ones, comic strip ones, or ancient egyptian ones with earrings. Mark Twain once said that he would "rent" cats to make any house he was staying in feel homely. One of mine is especially fond of joining me at the computer. When she sees that I'm sitting here, she immediately jumps on my lap. I think she likes to participate by proxy

[jacib]

This is totally off-topic, but ever since you put up the cat avatar, I imagine this cat typing responses, imbued with esoteric knowledge, in an MIT lab. You know, like the magic cat Salem on a show I watched when I was younger, "Sabrina the Teenage Witch."

The username "fuzzylogician" adds to image.

Best comment ever.

[hamster]

Best comment ever.

+1

[Medievalmaniac]

I'm "old," too: 36. And I feel like now is exactly the right time for me to go back to school.

I knew in high school that I wanted to get a Ph.D., teach college and research . I just didn't know what I wanted to focus on. Undergrad didn't really give me a much clearer picture of what interested me enough to devote my life to studying it.

I took a year off between undergrad (graduated in '96) and my MBA ('99).

My performance in that program left something to be desired, because I came into the program with hardly any real world experience, which is probably helpful in any grad program.

After that sobering experience, I decided I couldn't even think about going for a Ph.D. until I figured out what really lit my fire, intellectually speaking. It took another nine years or so of working s to figure that out , and then another year after that to get my act together and apply. (I sat last year's application cycle out hoping the real estate market would improve and I could unload my house.)

Anyway, I now know what I want and I am committed to going for it. That's a far cry from where I was in those first post-undergrad years. Do I wish I had figured it all out sooner? Yeah, because then I could've spent more time doing stuff I liked instead of stuff I didn't. But I'm really glad I took the time to sort out what was right for me, and I think I'll be more successful as a result.

I agree with other forumites--we all bring something unique to the table, whether it's youthful energy or valuable experience. And somewhere, at least one program is going to be looking for exactly what you have to offer.

yes, yes, yes. I agree with you on all counts, and could have written your post, except that I wasn't in an MBA program. When I was in my early 20s, I thought I was amazing and totally prepared for anything. Now I look back and I think "Oh, my God! What WAS I? What WAS I doing?" I sure wouldn't have wanted me in a doctoral program then - although I had been accepted, I just wasn't "there" yet. Now, I feel like I am so much better a candidate for what I want to do, and although I definitely, DEFINITELY feel twinges of "why didn't I figure things out sooner" and "gee, I wish my family were more portable..." - in the end, I'm so glad to be who I am and where I am now as a candidate and also just as a person.

Yes, there are "if only"s - but I think they're more a reaction to our culture's focus on youth than they are to my personal journey - it's been a great one, and I'm just getting warmed up.

[captiv8ed]

I AM going straight from undergrad to grad, but I took 15 years off between high school and undergrad!

In the interim, I worked in retail and then was a sahm.

I hate the years of earning potential that are now gone, and the idea of starting a career in my 40s. On the positive side, people routinely assume I am "college age" so maybe that will help me in the job market.

I feel like I missed out on the undergraduate experience that I see so many of my classmates indulging in. At the same time, it feels kind of weird to hang out with them sometimes, because I am so much older. I do have friends, but I don't go out drinking with them!

But, on the bright side, I can give you a bit of hope. I came to undergrad with barely any memory of what school looked like, and I have routinely been at the top of my class. Classmates look to me as the smart adn organized one who knows what is going on. I have been able to keep up with the information and coursework, with three kids and a husband in school, and all that life has dealt us, and I have thrived. I have enjoyed it so much that I opted to do a 5th year of undergrad and go on to grad school!

[NorthernStar]

I can't believe I only just discovered this thread.

Add me to the list of academic fossils.

Seriously now, if there is anything that I have learned (you know, age, wisdom ) it's that what seems sensible now, would not have occured to me 10 years. What the hell did I know back then, presh out of my undergrad? It's not just gaining more "life experience." It's more about knowing that I really really REALLY want to put myself through this not because of someone else's expectations or because it sounds so "cool" (someone mentioned the child prodigy). A decade ago I would not have chosen the field I am in, I would not have ended up where I am now, I would have known what I know now - and I don't mean just scholarly, but generally, the big picture, life plan stuff.

So for everyone on here (active or just lurking) - feel no regret. What's important is that you ARE here and you are SURe this is what you want to do.

Cheers!