Stuck in dilemma (international student admitted to CIPA at $20k/year)

[Revolutionary]

Dear friends,

I am stuck in a MAJOR dilemma and my life has been majorly messed up because of it. I would appreciate some responses urgently, as I have to make a decision as soon as possible.

So I am a Pakistani student with a passion for policy and development, but still confused about what to specialize in. I completed my undergrad in June 2016 and have worked in an NGO in agriculture since (1 year). I applied to Cornell CIPA in Jan, 2017 and got in with a 40% tuition reduction. Because CIPA's base tuition is $34k, my per year tuition is $20k (which is very little compared to competing programs, I think). But I can also defer my offer (the 40% reduction will not be deferred and I will compete with next year's batch for it) and get 1 year of more work experience before coming.

The problem is that I am coming to USA exclusively to get a job there, and getting a job in Trump's America for a south asian with a very Muslim name is near impossible, I've heard. Especially considering all the paperwork employers have to do to sponsor my H1B. So I was advised by some people that I should get more work experience before coming, since I only get one shot at this, and employers value more work experience. But the risk is that I don't get this much financial aid from CIPA next year (no one knows how funding will change by next year due to the political situation in US), and some people advised me not to take the risk as I can't afford to come without aid. The upside is that I can get the chance apply to competing programs as well next year. But my GPA is pretty bad (I've given my profile at the end). Am I competitive for HKS with funding/WWS/UChicago with funding, if I improve my GRE score?? Basically I can't afford to come without funding and Cornell seems to be among the few in financial range (I heard Uchicago and WWS give good aid)

Also, I'm concerned about Ithaca's distance from major cities. Being in Boston, NYC and DC to me seems very important for a policy program. Is this a valid concern? What are your thoughts about CIPA? 

 

Can someone offer me some advise? Is CIPA's offer worth deferring and the award worth passing over for a more work experience and a chance at UChicago/HKS/Princeton next year? Or should I come to CIPA with my 1 year of work experience?

 

My profile:

GPA: 3.04, LUMS BSc Management Science (less emphasis on economics but more on business and quantitative skills, such as statistical modelling, R, data mining, BI, etc.)

GRE: v162, q156, w5

WE: 1 year full-time at an NGO as a research and strategy associate, where I interacted and worked with government, farmers, corporations, consultants.

        2 years part-time running and managing a small, subsidized school for poor children

Edited May 5, 2017 by Revolutionary

[Revolutionary]

Guys? Even some brief advice on whether or not I should choose CIPA this year would do.

The total 2-year cost is about $70-80k. Breakdown shown below:

1. Tuition per year: $20k (after reduction)

2. Living & misc. per year: $15k-$20k (I'll try to bring this down to $10k by working part-time)

PLEASE TELL ME IF IT'S A GOOD DEAL OR CAN I RISK THE AWARD AND APPLY ELSEWHERE NEXT YEAR.

I'll be investing all this money to try to get a career in North America or Europe. 

 

Edited May 5, 2017 by Revolutionary

[went_away]

No don't go. It won't get you a job in the US with a visa.

If you come to the US for school, get an MBA.

If you want to pursue development I would suggest working another 1-5 years to improve your professional profile and move up the career ladder before getting a master's degree in IR.

[Ella16]

Agree with Went away. Other options would be to apply for SAIS or the MDP at Berkeley. SAIS is expensive but can open the door for World Bank and those types of jobs relatively easily and that could help buy you time to get another job in the states. 

The MDP is STEM designated so you get almost 3 years post grad in the states to get a job. (Although with the whole H1B visa issue I don't know how easy that'll be...)

Edited May 5, 2017 by Ella16

[CPRMPA]

I agree with what's been said above - take the time to get more work experience. Most schools prefer candidates who have good work experience anyway. In a few years, your professional background plus an improved quant GRE score will increase your likelihood of getting strong funding offers from schools, and you'll also be in a better position to get a job after you graduate.  

I'm so sorry you've found yourself in this frustrating situation! But it will be OK.  I would just advise you against jumping the gun and taking this offer now.  If you get more work experience and prioritize strengthening your applications for future years, I have no doubt that you'll get lots of funding from schools. The further out you get from undergrad, the less your GPA matters and the more your work experience does. 

[Revolutionary]

Thanks for the suggestions guys. Every day is hard here though, in Pakistan. I am an outcast to this society. I was born here, but don't believe in the social thoughts, religion and the culture here. There is no life. There are no recreational activities, no girls, no relationships, no fun. Just conservative, religious folks and 8 to 6 dull office life amidst the traffic, dust, pollution and broken roads. I want to escape badly. It is why I want to work in a developed, more liberal country. I feel like I'm wasting my life here, putting it through the grinder unnecessarily when I can leave now. That is why I felt the urgency to apply right out of undergrad. But you are all right, it is more mature to wait and put in the effort.

But consider this; all the effort and time I'll be wasting in things like the GRE (improving my quant score will be tough for me while doing my job), SOPs, IELTS scores submissions, recommendation letters gathering, etc. - I could be putting that effort in USA at Cornell to get a high GPA, land good internships and eventually a job, if not in USA, then in Canada or in Europe. And if the job-hunt fails, perhaps I can look towards a phd? Will that help me in my goal of immigration?

I would love if more people can offer their perspectives on this.

Also, for suggestions that I do an MBA instead - MBA's from good schools are too competitive (my quant skills are not on par) and too expensive. Also, I feel that my undergrad covered everything that an MBA teaches (Statistics, business, maths, marketing, supply chain, management, strategic thinking, decision analysis, BI? Have done it all, don't want to chew on the same fodder again and again). An MBA is a shitty program imo that just helps you get careers. I want to learn stuff as well from my 2 years program, and enjoy every tiny course and internship that it offers, not just use it as springboard for a job, and I will honestly enjoy CIPA's program. Really, I couldn't express enough hate for MBA programs and their ideology.

But then it's also true that beggars can't be choosers and I can't have everything in life. I understand why you would recommend an MBA to me. 

Edited May 5, 2017 by Revolutionary

[datik]

20 minutes ago, Revolutionary said:

Thanks for the suggestions guys. Every day is hard here though, in Pakistan. I am an outcast to this society. I was born here, but don't believe in the social thoughts, religion and the culture here. There is no life. There are no recreational activities, no girls, no relationships, no fun. Just conservative, religious folks and 8 to 6 dull office life amidst the traffic, dust, pollution and broken roads. I want to escape badly. It is why I want to work in a developed, more liberal country. I feel like I'm wasting my life here, putting it through the grinder unnecessarily when I can leave now. That is why I felt the urgency to apply right out of undergrad. But you are all right, it is more mature to wait and put in the effort.

But consider this; all the effort and time I'll be wasting in things like the GRE (improving my quant score will be tough for me while doing my job), SOPs, IELTS scores submissions, recommendation letters gathering, etc. - I could be putting that effort in USA at Cornell to get a high GPA, land good internships and eventually a job, if not in USA, then in Canada or in Europe. And if the job-hunt fails, perhaps I can look towards a phd? Will that help me in my goal of immigration?

I would love if more people can offer their perspectives on this.

Also, for suggestions that I do an MBA instead - MBA's from good schools are too competitive (my quant skills are not on par) and too expensive. Also, I feel that my undergrad covered everything that an MBA teaches (Statistics, business, maths, marketing, supply chain, management, strategic thinking, decision analysis, BI? Have done it all, don't want to chew on the same fodder again and again). An MBA is a shitty program imo that just helps you get careers. I want to learn stuff as well from my 2 years program, and enjoy every tiny course and internship that it offers, not just use it as springboard for a job, and I will honestly enjoy CIPA's program. Really, I couldn't express enough hate for MBA programs and their ideology.

 

 

Just to chip in, I will say that it is great that you come here looking for advice. Take my advice as a grain of salt, considering that I haven't started my MPP yet (but I do have several year of work experience and I've spent well over a year researching this).

 

First of all, 1 year may seem like a lot to wait if your situation is shitty right now, but in the long run it will be nothing if it ultimately helps you make a better choice. You do not want to take your graduate studies lightly. I know that Pakistan can be a suffocating place, but I think you can have it in you to just lay low for twelve more months. 

Regarding GRE, the quant section is actually the easiest to improve, specially if you have several weeks. Just do Magoosh for 30 minutes every day and correct your wrong answers and you will see your score get much higher. (In contrast the verbal section is greatly limited if your english is not up to par or if you weren't an avid reader before-hand). However, also keep in mind that GRE is a very small part of the application, and the one extra year of work (if relevant and you stand out) can do much more difference).

Regarding MBAs, money and positions may not seem like a factor now, but in 2 years they will be, trust me on this. If you go to grad school your primary focus should be on what you want to project your career. That doesn't mean that MBA is the only correct answer here, but you should take into consideration what you want to do. For example, most big non-profits value MBAs more than MPPs. But an MPA may be more valuable for public sector work. Never forget the huge financial undertaking that this choice signifies! Personally, if I could start again and money wasn't an issue I would consider a joint MBA/MPP, but that's just me, given my own preferences and outlook.

Are you competitive for other schools in one more year? Depends. The GRE is not as relevant as you think, as I said above. You say you are passionate, but can you tell a coherent story through your work experiences and volunteer work? Can you get relevant work experience in an extra year?

Best of luck

 

[Revolutionary]

47 minutes ago, datik said:

 

 

Just to chip in, I will say that it is great that you come here looking for advice. Take my advice as a grain of salt, considering that I haven't started my MPP yet (but I do have several year of work experience and I've spent well over a year researching this).

 

First of all, 1 year may seem like a lot to wait if your situation is shitty right now, but in the long run it will be nothing if it ultimately helps you make a better choice. You do not want to take your graduate studies lightly. I know that Pakistan can be a suffocating place, but I think you can have it in you to just lay low for twelve more months. 

Regarding GRE, the quant section is actually the easiest to improve, specially if you have several weeks. Just do Magoosh for 30 minutes every day and correct your wrong answers and you will see your score get much higher. (In contrast the verbal section is greatly limited if your english is not up to par or if you weren't an avid reader before-hand). However, also keep in mind that GRE is a very small part of the application, and the one extra year of work (if relevant and you stand out) can do much more difference).

Regarding MBAs, money and positions may not seem like a factor now, but in 2 years they will be, trust me on this. If you go to grad school your primary focus should be on what you want to project your career. That doesn't mean that MBA is the only correct answer here, but you should take into consideration what you want to do. For example, most big non-profits value MBAs more than MPPs. But an MPA may be more valuable for public sector work. Never forget the huge financial undertaking that this choice signifies! Personally, if I could start again and money wasn't an issue I would consider a joint MBA/MPP, but that's just me, given my own preferences and outlook.

Are you competitive for other schools in one more year? Depends. The GRE is not as relevant as you think, as I said above. You say you are passionate, but can you tell a coherent story through your work experiences and volunteer work? Can you get relevant work experience in an extra year?

Best of luck

 

Thanks for the comprehensive and attentive answer; appreciate it, that's very helpful.

[zling]

If you're applying to the US only to get a job, I think you should take a careful look at the statistics. The H1B visa quota is about 80,000 per year, and in 2017 there were around 235,000 applicants - that means, only around 1 in 3 were able to work in the US. (https://redbus2us.com/h1b-visa-2017/) [This is something I am also considering as an international.]

Will you be happy spending $70-80k in total for a CIPA degree, with a 60% chance of being denied a visa and having to return home? If the answer is yes, then it may still be worthwhile for you. If the answer is no (as it seems from your posts above), then you shouldn't put yourself in debt for it.

Have you tried looking at Canada or European schools and/or jobs, since you said you don't mind working in those countries? I'm not familiar with their system, but at least there won't be the uncertainty about whether the H1B quotas will be tightened. Good luck!

[Ella16]

Yea, look into canadian or australian schools. Those countries have looser immigration rules especially after you complete a degree there.

[fuzzylogician]

Chiming in to agree with the other posters that studying in the US with the goal of getting a job here is a bad idea. Immigration is a hot topic and there is a lot of uncertainty surrounding the H1B. I wouldn't risk it, if I were you, there is unfortunately a high likelihood it won't work out like you hope. I'd agree with the others that at the moment, focusing on a country that isn't as hostile to foreigners is a better choice, especially one where it's easier to stay once you've studied there. 

[Revolutionary]

Thanks for the advice guys.

Actually, that was the original plan for me; I was going to study policy in Canada for cheap. But when Cornell's offer I came I was blinded by the greed of studying at an American Ivy League university. I applied to one other university; SFU in Vanc, Canada and I got admission there but I turned it down. It was hell cheap but the program wasn't on par with Cornell's. I figured that Cornell gives the chance to make connections with some of the world's best academics and it also gives the chance to work at the World Bank, FAO, and in jobs across the world etc. If I went to SFU now, I believed that I would loose this opportunity. I can always go to Canada/Europe/Australia later to study a funded phd/cheap masters in a related field after Cornell. With the Cornell stamp on my profile, I believed that at the very least, an academic career would be cemented since Cornell's brand name is known throughout the world (Am I right in thinking this?)

From what you guys are saying, it appears to me that I can have just one of my 2 wishes fulfilled as policy programs don't have the broad professional application as MBA programs have; either I can study want I'm passionate about (policy) but forgo my chance at a job in the US, or I can sacrifice my passion and study something that has more practical value for me in the states, like a data analytics/programming/MBA degree, and even then it's a gamble due to the H1B lottery. One other option could be to wait an year and try my chances at Fulbright, which means zero financial investment from my side, but binds me to return to my home country.

Also, while I found Canada to have developed programs in policy (Ryerson, UoT, SFU), honestly, related programs in Australia appear to me like a joke. In fact, after researching universities and programs in Australia, I get this vibe from the country that it's just not a good place to study academically, as compared to North America and Europe. I've heard that the Australian job market values work experience over higher education, and coupled to that Australian universities seem to be stingy with aid and look like cash-cows. Furthermore, for immigration purposes, Australia's govt. publishes this list every year called the SOL which mentions "skills in demand in Australia". I haven't seen policy-related fields on this list. Instead, they want programmers, accountants, carpenters and plumbers. They want technical craftsmen, not policy analysts/leaders/advocates. 

Lastly guys, can I have some perspective on the CIPA program itself, in comparison to other programs? CIPA's international opportunities appear not so bad actually, and the Cornell alumni base is all over the world.

Edited May 6, 2017 by Revolutionary

[MBR]

It seems like everyone on here is pushing you not to do this. I'll take the opposite position. Obviously, there are a lot of factors here, and it's not an easy choice. You wouldn't be here if it was. And if you're doing this JUST for a US visa, then I wouldn't do it. With Trump in the White House in charge, we're losing great talent. But, look, this is a good degree. It's not like it's in art history or something. It builds hard skills. And you're right that you would almost certainly have some good academic options afterwards, if you want to go the PhD route. CIPA even offers the chance to do a formal masters thesis (good prep for PhD). And I'm sure if you're flexible about where to go after you're done (academic or non-academic), you can find a position that is rewarding. I would argue that you SHOULD study your passion. This degree seems much closer to your passion than an MBA would be. If you're passionate about something, that will help carry you through a difficult program. So, I say go.

[ExponentialDecay]

@MBR given OP's goal is to stay in the States, this degree might as well be art history (which, insofar as "hard skills" go, is not that far removed from policy programs). It is difficult for someone who is not an immigrant to understand how many more problems and how many fewer safety nets F1 students have, to the extent that I think people who are not international students are being irresponsible when giving advice on this matter. The only scenario where OP should "just go" is if this decision wouldn't cause financial strain on his family (i.e. they are very wealthy). Otherwise, no, they shouldn't YOLO because someone who can get their loans forgiven and get a job at any gas station told them to just do it.

OP, I came here on an F1 from a similarly socially suffocating country which has strained relations with the US, studied a similar major to yours, and I now work in policy. I also know a lot of people who are working or are trying to find work in the US, UK, or EU on a visa. I can only speak from experience, which is colored by my individual perceptions, dis/privileges, and abilities, but I hope it helps.

The first thing to realize is that your job search will look nothing like citizens' or green card holders, as will your financial risks. So take any general statistic, from placement statistics to minimum GPA requirements, with a grain of salt - they are not representative of international students' experiences. When it comes to getting an H1B, you face two major hurdles. The first is finding an employer who is willing to sponsor you for an H1B following your 1-2 years of OPT (because any decent school will make it possible for you to use OCT for internships). These employers are mostly big companies with lots of money, lots of lawyers, and lots of experience with the H1B process (though small companies sponsoring because they really like you as an individual and want you specifically has happened once or twice among my acquaintances). They mostly want to hire people with technical skills or at least work experience. Economics is probably the least quantitative that you can afford to go if you want to be competitive, which is why I personally would think twice about an MPA; the mathier, the more opportunities you are eligible for (which is not the same as getting the job, of course). The second hurdle is getting the H1B, where, assuming your company wants to sponsor you (i.e. pay for all the paperwork and go through the long bureaucratic process), you are admitted into a true lottery. I know people who have had to go home after working in M&A at Goldman Sachs because they didn't win the lottery, and rebuild their career from scratch. This was before 2009, when Obama cut the H1B quota to a third. H1B is a bloodbath, no matter where you work or what qualifications you have. You have the same chance as anyone else in that barrel, and if you don't get it, some companies will transfer you to an office outside the US, and some will just let you go.

People who are telling you to consider routes to UN-type jobs are absolutely correct (though a degree from SIPA is by no means a guarantee), because that makes you eligible for a G-type visa, which has many perks beyond the chief perk that it is not capped and makes you eligible for a green card after a certain number of years.

With that in mind, let's discuss degrees. Policy degrees are pretty frou frou, and I disagree that the skills they impart are particularly hard (please, tell me what a ~~quantitative analyst you are when you don't even understand the functional form of the model you are estimating). The problem is that the master's offering in the US is pretty bare - there aren't (m)any quality academic masters in social sciences that are valued by employers, because the market is dominated by professional degrees and there is a tradition for talented undergrads to work in a research position out of undergrad for a couple years and then go straight into the PhD. Then there's the problem that everything is so damn expensive. This is a serious problem, because you can't (imo as a person with a very low risk appetite) justify taking out 6 figure debt unless you are absolutely certain you can pay it back, but you can't be absolutely certain due to the effectively random H1B lottery outcome, and I know of no country in the world besides America where you can pay off that kind of debt, no matter what job you get. In my country, if you emerge with 6 figure debt and no US job, your life is fiscally ruined. For that reason, I wouldn't consider an MBA in America unless an employer were covering it. 

As regards what you would learn in an MPA vs an MBA program, I think you have a slightly unrealistic idea of both as well as an unrealistic idea of the realities of the US academic/job environment. Firstly, whilst I'm sure you learned a lot in undergrad and that the curriculum at Cornell or wherever is fascinating, these are professional programs, the point of which is to get a job. The strength of the curriculum is negligible compared to how effective a program is at achieving the latter. These aren't programs you go into to ~~find yourself or learn about the field. A lot of your classmates will already know 90% of what you're being taught, in technical or content classes or even both, and will be using this time to build their professional networks and work on projects that they can show employers or PhD programs (so, not exactly student work). If you go in without at least knowing what policy field you want to pursue as well as something academic or practical about that field, you will be lost. Secondly, and this probably goes for everyone, but especially for international students who haven't studied/worked in an American environment, one of the things you need to achieve in these programs is learning how to exist in your professional cohort, which includes building a personal brand/niche/narrative. Don't believe anything to the contrary: the US work environment is incredibly insular, and if you do things not how people are used to them being done, people will think you're weird, which will negatively affect your career progression. Another factor is what my foreign family call Americans being duplicitous, which is their naive way of saying that how people express themselves in America and how people express themselves in my culture are different, so unless you've been immersed in this culture for a while, you won't know what your cohort thinks of you, which is bad bad bad in this relationship-based business. There is still a classist, xenophobic notion here for what constitutes educated, unfortunately. For instance, a precious few of my colleagues are sympathetic to people who don't speak/write good English. Few bother to investigate whether an ESL person can't construct an argument or just doesn't have enough facility with the language, and just assume it's the former. On that note, writing well is the #1 most important skill (right up there with presenting/interacting with people well), not Stata. You may think you write well, but policy writing in the US is its own register. This field has a culture, and you will lose out if you don't know what's up. Especially the big players that everyone here wants to work for are snake pits, where no one will give you more than one chance, no one expects less than perfection, and a few people will screw you over just because they can. Don't get me wrong: I have a fantastic work environment with people who are invested in my success, but among my entire acquaintance, I am the only one who is this lucky.

As for what you should do, the main red flags to me are that you aren't 100% sure what you want to study, and that you graduated college last year. imo you need to be about 2 years further along in your career than you are, both so you can get better offers and so you know yourself better and have a better idea of how to make the best of this opportunity. This is a lot of money to spend on something you're not totally sold on, man. My first year out of college, I was similarly discombobulated and unhappy, but I'm glad I rode it out. I learned about how much I didn't know I don't know, and simultaneously I got a much better handle on where I want to take my life and career. GL.

[Revolutionary]

@MBR Thanks for your perspective. You are right about CIPA's thesis flexibility, though phd is a fall-back option for me.

 

@ExponentialDecay Thank you very much for covering my query in such comprehensive detail. I really appreciate it man. Couple of points I wanted to touch on, and seek further advice;

2 hours ago, ExponentialDecay said:

 

As for what you should do, the main red flags to me are that you aren't 100% sure what you want to study, and that you graduated college last year. imo you need to be about 2 years further along in your career than you are, both so you can get better offers and so you know yourself better and have a better idea of how to make the best of this opportunity. This is a lot of money to spend on something you're not totally sold on, man. My first year out of college, I was similarly discombobulated and unhappy, but I'm glad I rode it out. I learned about how much I didn't know I don't know, and simultaneously I got a much better handle on where I want to take my life and career. GL.

I'm not sure what I want to concentrate in, but I'm dead sure I want to go into policy. What I want to do is, concentrate/specialize n the field that is the most in-demand job wise in USA and abroad. I can only fully discover this when I actually go there and start my program. But I get your point, these degrees need pre-planning and a clear focus in mind when one starts them.

I understand that 2 years or more might be more optimum, but 1 more year is the most that I can stay here in this godforsaken place. I am hovering near depression. I see no meaning to life here, no reason to function. Also, 1 year is the most that Cornell will allow me to defer.

Yeah man, it's a lot of money, and it is for this reason exactly that I've come here for help. Another option for me is to apply in the Fulbright program for next year and take my chances. It will let me do my MPA at Cornell/some other American university at zero financial cost but will bind me to return home (the US job market would be completely off the shelf for me - though I wanted to ask - can I work in Canada/Europe/elsewhere other than my home country before meeting Fulbright's 2 year-home-residency requirement?)

I have heard that there are H1B cap-exempt organizations in the US (the H1B cap does not apply to them). How do I find these and can't they offer a solution to my problem? Can't I find a job in one of these after CIPA?

You mentioned that you had a similar profile to mine but you work in policy now (in USA?) Can you briefly tell me how you were successful?

There's this idea that: "If I secure a good GPA at the MPA, and I don't get a job at the end, I can always do a funded PhD at a good place since I now have Cornell's brand name on my academic profile. And by doing a PhD, even if the professional job market is not open to me, the middle/lesser tier (if not the high tier) universities in US as well as Canada will value me and might even employ me if I can network successfully with professors. Therefore, the worst that can happen is that I'm setting on an academic career but at least I don't have to return to my home country where I know FOR SURE that a policy degree won't get me a job that could provide me adequate return on investment (or even a job in the first place)". How true is this idea?

Thanks man, I'm very grateful for your advice. 

Edited May 6, 2017 by Revolutionary

[fuzzylogician]

11 minutes ago, Revolutionary said:

There's this idea that: "If I secure a good GPA at the MPA, and I don't get a job at the end, I can always do a funded PhD at a good place since I now have Cornell's brand name on my academic profile. And by doing a PhD, even if the professional job market is not open to me, the middle/lesser tier (if not the high tier) universities in US as well as Canada will value me and might even employ me if I can network successfully with professors. Therefore, the worst that can happen is that I'm setting on an academic career but at least I don't have to return to my home country where I know FOR SURE that a policy degree won't get me a job that could provide me adequate return on investment (or even a job in the first place)". How true is this idea?

1. The idea that you can get into a PhD program simply because you did an MA at Cornell is misguided.

2. The idea that you should do a PhD as some kind of last resort is incredibly misguided. A PhD is a multi-year commitment that's hard to get through even if you come in with all the passion in the world. 

3. The idea that you would then get a job at a North American University with your PhD that you aren't really passionate about and in a field you didn't actually want to be at is just plain offensive. The academic job market is ridiculously competitive. Those "lesser tier" jobs you're describing will still be highly competitive. The idea that you can go into academia as some kind of backup is just so incredibly misguided. More likely, you'll be miserable and depressed doing something you don't want to do, leading to poor performance, and therefore to failure to get a job (or graduate). Sorry to be harsh, but you have no experience and no actual academic interests. You'll be competing against people who actually want to be where they are. It's tough enough even when you have everything going for you, and almost impossible otherwise. If this is your backup strategy, I highly recommend that you go back to the drawing board. 

[Ella16]

Revolutionary, I think you need to figure out what you prioritize, moving away from Pakistan no matter what you have to do or getting into policy even though it might take longer and mean you wont get a job abroad. As others have mentioned policy is not the type of career that will enable you to easily get job sponsorships abroad, especially not in the US at this point in time. 

IOs are really the best option for internationals because of how hard it is to get a visa, but again those jobs don't grow on trees and with only one year experiece you will be competing with all of your classmates and people from other top degrees who have more and better experience than you. Simply having a Cornell degree wont make you a shoe in. It's not even amongst the top top top policy degrees in the states... I think you might be overestimating it a bit cause it's an Ivy (not saying that it's bad, there are just bigger names out there for this). 

It seems like your heart is really set on Cornell and ultimately you're looking for people to justify your decision, as you hace noticed by now very few of us agree. However, there is no one path to success. Having 3-4 years of experience, great volunteering, 5 languages and whatever else people say you need to succeed won't guarantee you get a dream policy job in an amazing place and that you'll be happy. Although I agree that this degree right now is a big risk and seems financially irresponsible sometimes you gotta take the leap. If you do make the decision to go, make sure that you're going with your eyes wide open and that you are prepared for a scenario in which you don't get a visa in the US or elsewhere, don't get into a Phd of your choice (which i agree you should never do just for the heck of it) and will have to move back to Pakistan anyway. 

[DogsArePeopleToo]

On 5/5/2017 at 10:34 PM, Revolutionary said:

Every day is hard here though, in Pakistan. I am an outcast to this society. I was born here, but don't believe in the social thoughts, religion and the culture here.

If you can make a genuine case for being an outcast whose religious or political views put him at risk of persecution, you can apply for asylum once you're in the US. Compared to the EU and Australia, the US asylum regime (narrowly defined) is better for people of your background and so far largely untouched by Trump and Bannon. (But you'll need to have better reasons for your asylum application than "no girls, no relationships, just a boring job" - that's half the world's guys in every country, the US included.)

There are downsides to the US asylum regime because you won't have government-provided pro bono legal aid and won't have work authorization until a few weeks to months after your application is in, during which time the government offers you no support...you'd be lucky if you got NGO support for basic subsistence. But if you're at Cornell while you apply, you might convince CIPA to keep you as a student despite your change of status from F-1 or J-1.

By the time you finish CIPA, you will have become a permanent resident. Jobs will have become easier then.

But I digress.

As someone who lives in an Islamic Republic next door to yours - and who lived in your country for over a decade - I would advise you not to overthink the difficulty of your situation. Correct me if I am wrong, but you seem like someone who doesn't have major financial problems, doesn't have 7 sisters to feed and marry off like some young men in Pakistan do, etc. The dust, broken roads and noisy mullahs are irritants but 180 million Pakistanis put up with them. I would imagine you could as well, at least for another year. You're in Lahore, not North Waziristan. Unless you have crippling dust allergies, you can live with it.

The various degrees at the Kennedy School require up to 6 or 7 years of work experience. Your GPA can't be changed, but gaining more work experience will definitely help with HKS or any other school, especially if you can improve your scores by a few notches, which you can because you have a whole year ahead of you. Everyone does it with a 9-5 job or a full course-load. That's just the way it is.

The biggest life advice someone gave me right out of undergrad was not to rush it. Take your time. Go out in the 'real world.' Spend some time in the sun to fully ripen. Then go back to school.

One year out of undergrad, you strike me as someone who is still in his early 20s. If that's the case, I would take a year, maybe two. You're still early in your career. One to two years at a job is ideal at this stage. Change jobs. Gain multiple experiences because this will give you different policy vantage points. It will make you a better applicant and job candidate.

I am sorry if this is a bit preachy, but I was in your shoes several years ago when, after six years in the US, I dreaded returning home for the exact reasons you outlined in your post. Five years into the dust and grime of my country and a few close security encounters later, I'm grateful I returned. I will be going back to the US for grad school this fall, and I am secure in the knowledge that I have real-world experience in a tough country -- knowledge that will enrich any conversation in a policy program (I got into CIPA as well, but I will be going to another grad school).

I would imagine that the beer I'll drink and the girls I might fraternize with will be all the sweeter. And the air...ahhh, I can finally go out running again.

---

ADDENDUM: The challenge of the position you're in is to see beyond your current situation, to incorporate contingencies into your planning. Here's one contingency: If you choose to go to CIPA, chances are that your view of Pakistan might actually change. Two years is a long time - you might miss Pakistan, might develop new perspectives. If you get a job right out of CIPA, that'd be great; if not, you can always return to Pakistan to much improved job prospects with an Ivy League degree in hand...and apply for an H1B the following year. I know more than a few foreigners - Pakistanis included - who returned home after a stint in the US. Many of them are happily working there.

Edited May 7, 2017 by DogsArePeopleToo
Addendum added

[Revolutionary]

 

@fuzzylogician

11 hours ago, fuzzylogician said:

2. The idea that you should do a PhD as some kind of last resort is incredibly misguided. A PhD is a multi-year commitment that's hard to get through even if you come in with all the passion in the world. 

3. The idea that you would then get a job at a North American University with your PhD that you aren't really passionate about and in a field you didn't actually want to be at is just plain offensive. The academic job market is ridiculously competitive. Those "lesser tier" jobs you're describing will still be highly competitive. The idea that you can go into academia as some kind of backup is just so incredibly misguided. More likely, you'll be miserable and depressed doing something you don't want to do, leading to poor performance, and therefore to failure to get a job (or graduate). Sorry to be harsh, but you have no experience and no actual academic interests. You'll be competing against people who actually want to be where they are. It's tough enough even when you have everything going for you, and almost impossible otherwise. If this is your backup strategy, I highly recommend that you go back to the drawing board. 

Thanks for the message.

I didn't mean to be offensive and I agree that doing a PhD requires incredible focus, commitment, passion and planning. I agree with you, though I'd like to add that you shouldn't underestimate the will-power and tenacity of us Asians (including especially the Chinese and Indians) to just simply do anything and everything to climb out of the ditches that the cosmic lottery blessed us with. I'm showing a bit impatience and immaturity by wanting to come just 1 year out of grad school, but I'm sure that completing a PhD once I set my mind to it won't be the biggest challenge I'll have to face in the world, or that it's insurmountable. 

You may be right about the North American academic job market, but this bit; "Sorry to be harsh, but you have no experience and no actual academic interests"... that's not true. The problem is I have a lot of academic interests, I'm just confused about what to specialize in. For example, I'm passionate about socio-economic structures and policy instruments, inequality and welfare economics, but at the same time I'm also interested in natural resources and food policy. My very attraction towards an MPA/MPP degree is that I'm an inter-disciplinarian, as most people are in this field. 

 

Edited May 7, 2017 by Revolutionary

[Revolutionary]

3 hours ago, DogsArePeopleToo said:

As someone who lives in an Islamic Republic next door to yours - and who lived in your country for over a decade - I would advise you not to overthink the difficulty of your situation. Correct me if I am wrong, but you seem like someone who doesn't have major financial problems, doesn't have 7 sisters to feed and marry off like some young men in Pakistan do, etc. The dust, broken roads and noisy mullahs are irritants but 180 million Pakistanis put up with them. I would imagine you could as well, at least for another year. You're in Lahore, not North Waziristan. Unless you have crippling dust allergies, you can live with it.

The various degrees at the Kennedy School require up to 6 or 7 years of work experience. Your GPA can't be changed, but gaining more work experience will definitely help with HKS or any other school, especially if you can improve your scores by a few notches, which you can because you have a whole year ahead of you. Everyone does it with a 9-5 job or a full course-load. That's just the way it is.

The biggest life advice someone gave me right out of undergrad was not to rush it. Take your time. Go out in the 'real world.' Spend some time in the sun to fully ripen. Then go back to school.

One year out of undergrad, you strike me as someone who is still in his early 20s. If that's the case, I would take a year, maybe two. You're still early in your career. One to two years at a job is ideal at this stage. Change jobs. Gain multiple experiences because this will give you different policy vantage points. It will make you a better applicant and job candidate.

I am sorry if this is a bit preachy, but I was in your shoes several years ago when, after six years in the US, I dreaded returning home for the exact reasons you outlined in your post. Five years into the dust and grime of my country and a few close security encounters later, I'm grateful I returned. I will be going back to the US for grad school this fall, and I am secure in the knowledge that I have real-world experience in a tough country -- knowledge that will enrich any conversation in a policy program (I got into CIPA as well, but I will be going to another grad school).

I would imagine that the beer I'll drink and the girls I might fraternize with will be all the sweeter. And the air...ahhh, I can finally go out running again.

---

ADDENDUM: The challenge of the position you're in is to see beyond your current situation, to incorporate contingencies into your planning. Here's one contingency: If you choose to go to CIPA, chances are that your view of Pakistan might actually change. Two years is a long time - you might miss Pakistan, might develop new perspectives. If you get a job right out of CIPA, that'd be great; if not, you can always return to Pakistan to much improved job prospects with an Ivy League degree in hand...and apply for an H1B the following year. I know more than a few foreigners - Pakistanis included - who returned home after a stint in the US. Many of them are happily working there.

@DogsArePeopleToo Thank you very much for going over this so thoroughly. You are right in saying that I don't face the same problems as most young Pakistani men do, like having to provide for many dependents from a very early age (although sooner or later I might find myself in that position as well!) I fully agree that taking some more time is for the best. Thanks for the advice.

[rising_star]

If you really want to get out of Pakistan, why not apply for jobs in other countries (China, India, Europe, etc.)? That would solve your immediate problem and give you the work experience needed to get into a more prestigious program in the future. I wouldn't go to Cornell just for the name because the name isn't that well-known even within the US (there are the Ivy names everyone recognizes then the four that everyone forgets about and Cornell is in the latter group). 

[ExponentialDecay]

@Revolutionary

Policy is not a specialization. That's like saying you want to specialize in engineering. As regards interdisciplinarity, sure, most policy people have an interdisciplinary skillset - but that is not the same as having an interdisciplinary focus. Until you grow to the heights of Jim Kim or Noam Chomsky and can permit yourself to pontificate on whatever you damn well please, regardless of what they call you doctor for, you need to have a niche in order to get work. A narrow one. A niche in policy is something like innovation policy, or productivity analysis, or aquaculture in west africa. 

I know some people who went the MPA - PhD route to stay in the country (which is unfortunately a necessary reality when you graduate from a middling MPA program and have no work authorization), among a broader circle of people who do so with whatever degree. None of them are at good programs, and none of them are getting academic jobs. Barring a strong undergraduate record (at a known university) or extensive work experience, the MPA isn't really a good gateway to a PhD. It maybe qualifies you for average polisci programs, random interdisciplinary programs, and public policy PhDs (for which academic jobs statistically do not exist). If you go that route, you need to realize that all you're doing is buying yourself more time to find a job.

Quote

What I want to do is, concentrate/specialize n the field that is the most in-demand job wise in USA and abroad.

I can put you out of your misery: this field does not exist. Name any policy area, and you can spit and hit 10 specialists that have 3 citizenships, 5 languages, and star-studded resumes. If you want to work in an in-demand field, you're barking up the wrong tree. Try IT or finance. Nobody works here for the easy career progression or the piles of money; we do it either because we love it, or because we fell into it. What you can do to become an in-demand person is to 1) have a niche you are expert in (because you love it, because you're good at it, because you fell into it and stuck with it); 2) have a skill you do really well (statistics, writing, negotiation, etc); 3) be easy to work with (attitude, attention to detail, organization, good under pressure). 

That said, I agree with the other dude. If this is an itch you need to scratch, go for it. I'm more or less convinced that your discontent can be explained by a combination of growing pains and a lack of experience with having real problems, and I personally give you low odds for success, but then I'd give anyone in your position, broadly, low odds for success and yet some people make it. Just do a conservative cost-benefit analysis before you go.

I know nothing about Fulbright. Cap-exempt organizations are universities and NGOs associated with universities. As for your plan for getting a PhD and "settling" for an academic career, it makes you look completely clueless. The takeaway I want you to get from this post, if not this conversation overall, is that, if you are in the US on a visa, you ALWAYS have to plan for the possibility that you will be going home, because as long as you are on a visa, that possibility is always there. The second takeaway is that, so far, the ideas you have for keeping that eventuality at bay are either unrealistic or have very low odds of success.

Edited May 7, 2017 by ExponentialDecay

[Revolutionary]

@rising_star

18 hours ago, rising_star said:

If you really want to get out of Pakistan, why not apply for jobs in other countries (China, India, Europe, etc.)? That would solve your immediate problem and give you the work experience needed to get into a more prestigious program in the future. I wouldn't go to Cornell just for the name because the name isn't that well-known even within the US (there are the Ivy names everyone recognizes then the four that everyone forgets about and Cornell is in the latter group). 

That would be the ideal option, but most job vacancies at international orgs like UN, etc. that I've looked at require masters degrees and usually 3-5 years of work experience. Entry level jobs at these orgs (for example UN's YPP program) are not open to Pakistani nationality  And non-international orgs want nationals of the country that they are based in

If you are aware of any platform or organization where entry/min. experience level jobs are available for international job-seekers, esp in Europe, do let me know. But my own internet research tells me that it's a lost cause.

Edited May 8, 2017 by Revolutionary

[Revolutionary]

17 hours ago, ExponentialDecay said:

I know some people who went the MPA - PhD route to stay in the country (which is unfortunately a necessary reality when you graduate from a middling MPA program and have no work authorization), among a broader circle of people who do so with whatever degree. None of them are at good programs, and none of them are getting academic jobs. Barring a strong undergraduate record (at a known university) or extensive work experience, the MPA isn't really a good gateway to a PhD. It maybe qualifies you for average polisci programs, random interdisciplinary programs, and public policy PhDs (for which academic jobs statistically do not exist). If you go that route, you need to realize that all you're doing is buying yourself more time to find a job.

I can put you out of your misery: this field does not exist. Name any policy area, and you can spit and hit 10 specialists that have 3 citizenships, 5 languages, and star-studded resumes. If you want to work in an in-demand field, you're barking up the wrong tree. Try IT or finance. Nobody works here for the easy career progression or the piles of money; we do it either because we love it, or because we fell into it. What you can do to become an in-demand person is to 1) have a niche you are expert in (because you love it, because you're good at it, because you fell into it and stuck with it); 2) have a skill you do really well (statistics, writing, negotiation, etc); 3) be easy to work with (attitude, attention to detail, organization, good under pressure). 

@ExponentialDecay

Alright, alright, no need to be so bitter.

I'd appreciate some guidance on how I can reconcile my passion for public policy rather than "IT or finance" with my plans to eventually immigrate out of Pakistan. Sure, "growing pains" may have something to do with my desire to leave this country, but at the deeper level, the social-cultural-disillusionment, identity crises, and especially, my complete lack of and discomfort with religion in one of the world's biggest victim countries of Islamic extremism places me at a vulnerable, dangerous, socially and mentally depressing position. 

[kb6]

A lot of topics have been covered here, and I'll add one more to consider.

I think you're vastly overestimating the prestige of Cornell CIPA's program. Yes, Cornell is a well-known school generally speaking. But in US policy circles, CIPA is a decidedly second tier program in an oversaturated field. At the risk of causing offense, that's probably why they gave such a hefty scholarship to a candidate with one year of work experience, a below-average GPA, and an unspectacular GRE score. 

If you were just trying to get a US brand name school on you resume to go back to Pakistan, it might work out (lots of Chinese students do something similar at various non-elite programs). Or if you were already working in the US and needed a master's just to check a box for a very specific career goal, it could be worth it. But given your stated goals (finding a job that will allow you to stay in the US long-term) and your lack of practical experience, I think you should proceed very cautiously. 

There won't be that many US employers who are going to be thirsty enough for CIPA grads that they're willing to sponsor you for an H1b visa, unless you have a really unique skillset (usually something quanty). That leaves you with international multilaterals where you can get a diplomatic visa, but those organizations tend to recruit from schools like Harvard, SAIS, SIPA, etc. and/or are extremely hard to break into even for people with elite degrees and incredible work experience (I'm thinking of the UN here). 

And finally, it's a major uphill battle to get into any US doctorate program with policy or IR master's, as @ExponentialDecay suggests. This transition would only be made harder by coming from a lower-ranked program.