My GRE is atrocious...a coincidence that my track record is also poor?

[Ilikekitties]

I have a combined GRE score of 293.5 (I literally filled in random bubbles for most of the quant section). I read on here that most grad programs don't accept people who have combined scores below 300. I also read that some schools don't even read an app if the score is below 300. I read for a lot of the schools that I applied to that they don't have GRE minimums, but how do I really know? If that's the case, I'm wasting my time and energy applying.

As you can see in my signature, I have a poor record of getting accepted at places. Last year I did find out that I was a top applicant at Notre Dame for a PhD program because of my research experience and research interests, which made me happy, but ultimately I was rejected (I only have a BA, which probably hasn't helped me either).

Is it a coincidence? Certainly the programs that I applied to in the past were really competitive and I was also competing with people with MA's.

Edited December 13, 2017 by GameofLoans16

[phyanth]

I would retake the GRE if I were you, or focus on getting into an MA program so you are more competitive for a PhD program. GRE scores aren't super important, but poor scores will inevitably hurt your application, as would any significant poor performance in other parts of your application. Having that low of a GRE score may indicate that you didn't bother putting in enough time and effort studying, though standardized testing may not be your forte! It's most likely a combination of having only a BA and low GRE scores.

Remember, schools sift through literally hundreds of applications to pick a few people for a PhD program. Often times, most of these people already have a master's and probably have a combined GRE of over 300.

Where all did you apply? That may be indicative of why you got rejected, especially if you applied to top 10 programs for your subfield. 

Edited December 13, 2017 by phyanth

[phyanth]

Oops, just saw on your signature that you are applying to MA programs this year. You should fare better

[Ilikekitties]

5 minutes ago, phyanth said:

I would retake the GRE if I were you, or focus on getting into an MA program so you are more competitive for a PhD program. GRE scores aren't super important, but poor scores will inevitably hurt your application, as would any significant poor performance in other parts of your application. Having that low of a GRE score may indicate that you didn't bother putting in enough time and effort studying, though standardized testing may not be your forte! It's most likely a combination of having only a BA and low GRE scores.

Remember, schools sift through literally hundreds of applications to pick a few people for a PhD program. Often times, most of these people already have a master's and probably have a combined GRE of over 300.

Where all did you apply? That may be indicative of why you got rejected, especially if you applied to top 10 programs for your subfield. 

In 2015 I applied to UIUC, Maryland, the New School, UC Davis, UC Santa Barbara, UC Santa Cruz, Columbia, Cornell, McGill, Toronto, and Notre Dame. In 2016 I applied to McGill, Toronto, Michigan State (sociology), Exeter,  Notre Dame (I was a top applicant here on my 2nd try, but alas), and Washington. This year I'm applying to Mississippi State, Oregon State, Maryland, and Southern Florida.

[phyanth]

36 minutes ago, GameofLoans16 said:

In 2015 I applied to UIUC, Maryland, the New School, UC Davis, UC Santa Barbara, UC Santa Cruz, Columbia, Cornell, McGill, Toronto, and Notre Dame. In 2016 I applied to McGill, Toronto, Michigan State (sociology), Exeter,  Notre Dame (I was a top applicant here on my 2nd try, but alas), and Washington. This year I'm applying to Mississippi State, Oregon State, Maryland, and Southern Florida.

If you were a top applicant at Notre Dame last year, I'm sure you're bound to get into one of your pick this year! But hey, I don't make the decisions, so who knows? I had a friend who was a merit scholar, 4 pointed college, full ride, near perfect GRE, extensive research, peer-review published by the time she finished undergrad and got rejected from every school she applied to. Granted, this was psychology, but life is crazy sometimes!

[Ilikekitties]

2 minutes ago, phyanth said:

If you were a top applicant at Notre Dame last year, I'm sure you're bound to get into one of your pick this year! But hey, I don't make the decisions, so who knows? I had a friend who was a merit scholar, 4 pointed college, full ride, near perfect GRE, extensive research, peer-review published by the time she finished undergrad and got rejected from every school she applied to. Granted, this was psychology, but life is crazy sometimes!

I've heard that psych is crazy competitive!

[phyanth]

1 minute ago, GameofLoans16 said:

I've heard that psych is crazy competitive!

Yeah, for real! But I feel like anthropology is just as competitive, if not more. In order to secure a decent job out of a PhD program in Anth, you either have to go to a great program and/or have excellent networking skills. At least with psychology, you are almost guaranteed a job when you finish the program!

[ltr317]

Some programs look at applicants holistically, while others focus on GPA and GRE as factors in deciding whether an applicant gets pass the first round.  I would check the websites of the four MA programs you're applying to determine which approach they take.  Based on your selections this time, I think several of the programs are not that competitive, especially at the MA level. 

How do you get a .5 on the GRE?  Verbal and Quant scores are in whole numbers.  Unless you included the AWA in the total (which you shouldn't) that's not possible.  Anyway, good luck this cycle. 

[Ilikekitties]

7 minutes ago, ltr317 said:

Some programs look at applicants holistically, while others focus on GPA and GRE as factors in deciding whether an applicant gets pass the first round.  I would check the websites of the four MA programs you're applying to determine which approach they take.  Based on your selections this time, I think several of the programs are not that competitive, especially at the MA level. 

How do you get a .5 on the GRE?  Verbal and Quant scores are in whole numbers.  Unless you included the AWA in the total (which you shouldn't) that's not possible.  Anyway, good luck this cycle. 

Yes, I included the writing section of course. Didn’t know that this wasn’t included.

And even if this round of schools is less competitive, I still need full funding at the MA level. Getting in is only part of the issue...

Edited December 13, 2017 by GameofLoans16

[GreenEyedTrombonist]

When programs discuss the combined score, they mean just Verbal and Quant sections as the AW section does not scale the same. If programs have a minimum GRE score, they will normally state it in their application faq section, so I'd worry less about that. When that is not mentioned as a cut-off, however, it is often used to choose between two otherwise equal applicants, so it would still be good to improve your score. Good news, the act of getting the MA should help improve your skills and score. My scores increased across all sections (without studying) after a year in my MA program.

[Ilikekitties]

2 minutes ago, GreenEyedTrombonist said:

When programs discuss the combined score, they mean just Verbal and Quant sections as the AW section does not scale the same. If programs have a minimum GRE score, they will normally state it in their application faq section, so I'd worry less about that. When that is not mentioned as a cut-off, however, it is often used to choose between two otherwise equal applicants, so it would still be good to improve your score. Good news, the act of getting the MA should help improve your skills and score. My scores increased across all sections (without studying) after a year in my MA program.

Good for you! I really don’t think that my scores would improve, however. 

[GreenEyedTrombonist]

Then I suggest investing in study materials or GRE prep courses. There are specific techniques you can learn to answer the quant questions quickly and correctly. 

[Ilikekitties]

6 hours ago, GreenEyedTrombonist said:

Then I suggest investing in study materials or GRE prep courses. There are specific techniques you can learn to answer the quant questions quickly and correctly. 

I used free materials when I took the test in 2015. I took one look at the quant formula list and I said “NOPE.” No memorizing formulas?

[Ilikekitties]

12 hours ago, phyanth said:

Yeah, for real! But I feel like anthropology is just as competitive, if not more. In order to secure a decent job out of a PhD program in Anth, you either have to go to a great program and/or have excellent networking skills. At least with psychology, you are almost guaranteed a job when you finish the program!

Trying not to think about that...

[bioarch_fan]

Honestly Mississippi State doesn't even really look at the GRE that much. They take it into account when awarding funding but even then it's not that big of a deal. I didn't have a 300 when I applied here and I got in with funding. It really does depend on your entire application. I would say talk to either David or Kate and see what they say about your GRE score. But when I talked to my advisor, she didn't really say anything about it. She said I could take it again if I wanted to but it's not really that important to do it again. So just email all of your POIs and ask them what they would suggest doing. Most anthropology departments don't really take much weight into the GRE because it's a horrible way to determine the success of an applicant.

Edited December 14, 2017 by bioarch_fan
Accidentally pressed submit and the post wasn't finished.

[LolJustAdmitMe]

If you’re going for MA, I wouldn’t stress it to much. I got into an MS program (Drexel) with a GRE score of 285 and an alright GPA(“alright” is prob subjective)....Yea. Just apply to less high ranked programs, tbh. The place where you’ll hit the biggest issues is applying for PhDs(also where I’ve finally hit my obstacles)...bc like everyone’s hinted at, there’s hundreds of spectacular apps being sent into ONE place. 

[Ilikekitties]

25 minutes ago, bioarch_fan said:

Honestly Mississippi State doesn't even really look at the GRE that much. They take it into account when awarding funding but even then it's not that big of a deal. I didn't have a 300 when I applied here and I got in with funding. It really does depend on your entire application. I would say talk to either David or Kate and see what they say about your GRE score. But when I talked to my advisor, she didn't really say anything about it. She said I could take it again if I wanted to but it's not really that important to do it again. So just email all of your POIs and ask them what they would suggest doing. Most anthropology departments don't really take much weight into the GRE because it's a horrible way to determine the success of an applicant.

I already submitted my app though...wouldn't it be too late to retake it?

I'd be a little ashamed to ask them about it, tbh. You don't think they'd feel weird about me asking?

[Ilikekitties]

2 minutes ago, LolJustAdmitMe said:

If you’re going for MA, I wouldn’t stress it to much. I got into an MS program (Drexel) with a GRE score of 285 and an alright GPA(“alright” is prob subjective)....Yea. Just apply to less high ranked programs, tbh. The place where you’ll hit the biggest issues is applying for PhDs(also where I’ve finally hit my obstacles)...bc like everyone’s hinted at, there’s hundreds of spectacular apps being sent into ONE place. 

Yeah I'm not applying to PhDs this year because I'm unsure if I want to go that route. I'd rather get my MA and then decide.

My GPA was high.

[LolJustAdmitMe]

2 hours ago, GameofLoans16 said:

Yeah I'm not applying to PhDs this year because I'm unsure if I want to go that route. I'd rather get my MA and then decide.

My GPA was high.

Then you’ll be fine! Apply to as many programs as you can afford to, surprise yourself and pick schools your semi interested in (that’s what I did and the school I ended up going with I didn’t even care much about in the application process) and hope for the best. 

[Ilikekitties]

19 minutes ago, LolJustAdmitMe said:

Then you’ll be fine! Apply to as many programs as you can afford to, surprise yourself and pick schools your semi interested in (that’s what I did and the school I ended up going with I didn’t even care much about in the application process) and hope for the best. 

After admission, the next (huge) thing I'm worried about is funding. I can't go unless the program is funded and I get a living stipend.

Edited December 14, 2017 by GameofLoans16

[DiscoTech]

20 hours ago, GameofLoans16 said:

Good for you! I really don’t think that my scores would improve, however. 

 

13 hours ago, GameofLoans16 said:

I used free materials when I took the test in 2015. I took one look at the quant formula list and I said “NOPE.” No memorizing formulas?

 

It is odd that you are certain your scores would not improve. Especially given that you do not appear to have given the GRE your best shot. At the end of this journey you will have sat through 3 application cycles. In all that time, you could have easily devoted 5-6 hours a week (over a 6-8 month span)  to work on the GRE.

It also seems possible that your application results have been influence by more than just your GRE scores. For example, you said - "I took one look at the quant formula list and I said “NOPE.” No memorizing formulas?" If this attitude bled into other aspects of your application like your SOP or your reference letters, it would be a good reason for a department to not want to take you on as a funded student. Also, at this point, I would not be surprised if your references are suffering from letter writing fatigue. Especially if you've put no effort to improve the one glaring red flag on your application.

Doing well in coursework is not a sufficiently good indicator of your potential success as a researcher. Moreover, your research will involve a lot of tasks that will make you feel the same way you did when you looked at a GRE quant forumla sheet. Without out the drive to power through some unpleasant tasks, graduate school is going to be a miserable experience.

Here's the good news. The GRE is learnable. You most certainly don't have to memorize every formula on a damn formula sheet. Like with any other field,  when you put in sufficient practice, you will remember the important formulae and be able to reason through problems where you don't remember the exact formula. We don't really know what your verbal and analytical scores are, but they are below 155 and 4.0, respectively, I would consider beefing those up too. Foreign engineering students with a limited command of English manage to work their way up to scores in this range. If they can, so can you.

 

Edited December 14, 2017 by DiscoTech

[Ilikekitties]

21 minutes ago, DiscoTech said:

It is odd that you are certain your scores would not improve. Especially given that you do not appear to have given the GRE your best shot. At the end of this journey you will have sat through 3 application cycles. In all that time, you could have easily devoted 5-6 hours a week (over a 6-8 month span)  to work on the GRE.

It also seems possible that your application results have been influence by more than just your GRE scores. For example, you said - "I took one look at the quant formula list and I said “NOPE.” No memorizing formulas?" If this attitude bled into other aspects of your application like your SOP or your reference letters, it would be a good reason for a department to not want to take you on as a funded student. Also, at this point, I would not be surprised if your references are suffering from letter writing fatigue. Especially if you've put no effort to improve the one glaring red flag on your application.

Doing well in coursework is not a sufficiently good indicator of your potential success as a researcher. Moreover, your research will involve a lot of tasks that will make you feel the same way you did when you looked at a GRE quant forumla sheet. Without out the drive to power through some unpleasant tasks, graduate school is going to be a miserable experience.

Here's the good news. The GRE is learnable. You most certainly don't have to memorize every formula on a damn formula sheet. Like with any other field,  when you put in sufficient practice, you will remember the important formulae and be able to reason through problems where you don't remember the exact formula. We don't really know what your verbal and analytical scores are, but they are below 155 and 4.0, respectively, I would consider beefing those up too. Foreign engineering students with a limited command of English manage to work their way up to scores in this range. If they can, so can you.

 

I don't want to study for the GRE. That's the thing. I would need to relearn all of the math that I learned in middle school and high school. I struggled with math in school and there's no way I could reteach it to myself. I can't even do basic algebra anymore. I did study for the verbal section. The GRE was never important to me and I can't involve myself with something that I want nothing to do with. The verbal section is mainly knowing words that I'm never gonna use. Even academia (at least anthro) shuns inaccessibility.

I'm passionate about my research topics, though. It's nothing like looking at a math formula sheet. Looking at math formulas makes my brain shut down. Not only is math unpleasant for me, it's impenetrable. I've never understood math all my life, and me studying for a few months on my own after I took math for 12 years in school is not gonna change that. Research might do that at times, but at least it's your passion. Going to grad school is a choice...the only good reason to be in grad school is because you want to be there.

My verbal was 150 and my writing was 4.5. My profs who wrote for me don't know these scores. My profs wouldn't write poor letters and my SOP's have been refined over the past 2 years and read by my recommenders.

Edited December 14, 2017 by GameofLoans16

[phyanth]

16 minutes ago, GameofLoans16 said:

I don't want to study for the GRE. That's the thing. I would need to relearn all of the math that I learned in middle school and high school. I struggled with math in school and there's no way I could reteach it to myself. I can't even do basic algebra anymore. I did study for the verbal section. The GRE was never important to me and I can't involve myself with something that I want nothing to do with. The verbal section is mainly knowing words that I'm never gonna use. Even academia (at least anthro) shuns inaccessibility.

I'm passionate about my research topics, though. It's nothing like looking at a math formula sheet. Looking at math formulas makes my brain shut down. Not only is math unpleasant for me, it's impenetrable. I've never understood math all my life, and me studying for a few months on my own after I took math for 12 years in school is not gonna change that. Research might do that at times, but at least it's your passion. Going to grad school is a choice...the only good reason to be in grad school is because you want to be there.

My verbal was 150 and my writing was 4.5. My profs who wrote for me don't know these scores. My profs wouldn't write poor letters and my SOP's have been refined over the past 2 years and read by my recommenders.

Even though you don't want to study for the quant, you're going to have to if you really do want to get into a PhD program in the future. Based on what you've given us, that means you got a 139 in quant. While quants probably don't matter for cultural anth, you still need to put in the effort to at least break 150. I would be concerned that schools wouldn't even look at your application because of the scores. For that reason alone, you should really put in the effort. The math isn't so much about rote memorization of formulas, so much as being more like logic puzzles. You identify patterns within the problem and I would say that about 35% of the time, you don't actually need to use some formula forgotten years ago. A lot of the problems that show up on quant only require you to use basic math (e.g. ratios, fractions, percentages). You could definitely pop that score up to 150 if you even put in a few hours a week!

But, you mentioned that you studied for the verbal. You will also have to raise those scores if you want to be competitive, even at the MA level, ESPECIALLY since you want complete funding. GRE scores are usually how they determine funding, since most candidates are on the same level in all other aspects. For that reason alone, you absolutely need to put in the effort to study for both of the sections. Magoosh has an awesome free app for learning verbal vocab. 

Trust me, nobody wants to relearn math or vocab, but we all do it to remain competitive! It's been five years since I've taken a standardized test. I have a pituitary adenoma that causes severe hyperthyroidism, which in turn leads to panic attacks daily, shortness of breath, heart malfunction, dizziness, nausea, etc. I took the time to study for about 8 hours a week for 2 weeks, through all of that miserable health stuff, and took the test under those conditions. I ended up doing pretty well, all things considered. If I can do it, YOU can definitely do it, as long as you truly want this!!

[Ilikekitties]

28 minutes ago, phyanth said:

Even though you don't want to study for the quant, you're going to have to if you really do want to get into a PhD program in the future. Based on what you've given us, that means you got a 139 in quant. While quants probably don't matter for cultural anth, you still need to put in the effort to at least break 150. I would be concerned that schools wouldn't even look at your application because of the scores. For that reason alone, you should really put in the effort. The math isn't so much about rote memorization of formulas, so much as being more like logic puzzles. You identify patterns within the problem and I would say that about 35% of the time, you don't actually need to use some formula forgotten years ago. A lot of the problems that show up on quant only require you to use basic math (e.g. ratios, fractions, percentages). You could definitely pop that score up to 150 if you even put in a few hours a week!

But, you mentioned that you studied for the verbal. You will also have to raise those scores if you want to be competitive, even at the MA level, ESPECIALLY since you want complete funding. GRE scores are usually how they determine funding, since most candidates are on the same level in all other aspects. For that reason alone, you absolutely need to put in the effort to study for both of the sections. Magoosh has an awesome free app for learning verbal vocab. 

Trust me, nobody wants to relearn math or vocab, but we all do it to remain competitive! It's been five years since I've taken a standardized test. I have a pituitary adenoma that causes severe hyperthyroidism, which in turn leads to panic attacks daily, shortness of breath, heart malfunction, dizziness, nausea, etc. I took the time to study for about 8 hours a week for 2 weeks, through all of that miserable health stuff, and took the test under those conditions. I ended up doing pretty well, all things considered. If I can do it, YOU can definitely do it, as long as you truly want this!!

I do know that PhD programs read my essays because I got waitlisted at one and another said I was a top applicant. Sure, maybe my scores could have been a contributing factor for why I wasn't admitted, but these programs are so competitive it'd be impossible to say it was any one thing. There are always more applicants for the number of available spots. Like you get 200 apps for 10 spots. What are the chances for even a super competitive applicant?

I suck at logic puzzles haha. Again, basic math...a skill I lack. 150 is still around the 50th percentile...like I really do think it's impossible, especially when you consider that people who actually studied math are taking this test. How can you go from a math level of zero to doing halfway decently on an exam that highly-educated, bright people are taking? Then again, I bubble-raced the math section and got 6th percentile, so there were other people who definitely guessed randomly too. I talked to an alum from my undergrad program who recently got her PhD from Princeton about it, and she said they weren't important, so I kinda pushed them aside. Even when I told her about a couple of current students at my undergrad program who had gotten perfect scores, she thought it was dumb that they had spent so much time studying for that/not doing more important things.

Magoosh was the app I used for vocab.

You believe in me more than I believe in myself, clearly...

Edited December 14, 2017 by GameofLoans16

[mfafiction2019]

For what it's worth, before I started studying for the GRE, I would score in the lower 140s on the quant part, and with around 3 months of studying with Magoosh (while holding down a full time job), I managed to pull my quant score up to 150 (I'm applying for sociology, but I come from an anthro background and want to focus on qualitative work, so it's on the low side, but average for sociology and anthropology applicants, based on what I've seen).