TimB

I got a lot of automated invites to webinars, that was it. I checked my email inbox and it looks like I got my acceptance letter on 3/8/13, with the financial aid info coming three days later. Just an FYI, they want a $1,000 deposit to hold your spot within a month or so of the date admissions offers go out. I assume that might be negotiable if you're tight on funds however.

I am also an Americorps allum! Foster3693, one thing I'd suggest you look into is the matching awards many grad programs offer for Americorps grads. NYU offered to match my award when I was speaking with their office during my term of service. While paying off $5,000 in student loans right now is great, if you end up attending a school with a grant matching program you might be able to get $10,000 deducted off future loans if you save your award now. Also, grad school loans from the Fed's come at higher interest rates than undergrad loans, so you're better off paying down the principal on those first. I left my Americorps program a little less than 3 months early for another job offer so I ended up losing 100% of my award. It's too bad they don't pro-rate it for how long you've worked with them, but I can understand that they want to control costs. In the long run I think the savings from my work will balance out losing the award. On the main question: I don't think it matters much unless you can get into a top tier brand name school. Most of the people I've met who work in government or non-profit hiring positions are not going to know what the 15th or 21st best ranked MPA programs in the nation are, however names like Harvard, or Princeton will stand out. Plus, rankings change a lot over time, my undergrad institution has fallen from top 30 to out of the top 60 in the 5 years since I left. Brand names have staying power. That said, I think it is very wise to pick based on how much the program seems to fit your needs, and I think job placement stats are another big thing to look at.

I actually like my job; it's a good resume builder, pays well, and I do get to actually help people, but it doesn't stop me from spending way more time than I should thinking about my application. My wife and I aren't ready to move so I applied for only one program. My bad habits: Checking out every topic the forum has on acceptance into the program I applied for: if someone had a lower GPA/GRE, or less work experience than me and got in, my heart instantly soars, I am sure I'm getting in. Then I'll see someone with a better quant score, or more relevant major who got rejected and the despair hits, there is no way I'll make it. Reading my SOP over and over and thinking about how I could improve it even though it's too late. I deleted a comma from a sentence right before submitting, now I realize it reads better with the comma in it. Thank God there is no actual typos and only style things I want to change. It's funny because I applied for 4 schools last year, submitted my application to one of them late, had one LOR never turn their letter in, and didn't worry about it at all. I eventually got admitted too. It'll be very ironic if I don't this year with how much more time I've sunk into it. Luckily my state school's program's deadline in May, so I'll know if I'm in and have a chance to apply to another program.

I'm don't know about this organization (which looks pretty cool btw) or IR programs specifically so much, but I have had conversations with a few admissions offices about MOOCs and free online courses. Some schools will allow you to submit transcripts from places like Coursera, others won't. You should contact the schools you plan to apply to and see if they will let you submit courses from this source, or similar sources (Coursera has a lot of IR courses to choose from to BTW). Note: I've yet to find a school that will take MOOCs for credit towards your GPA, but some will accept them for program prerequisites. Having a bunch of relevant MOOCs completed with good grades will show that you are interested in the field, and I would imagine it would make you stand out better than a similar candidate who hasn't taken any courses in IR. Plus, even if some schools won't even look at these courses, you can still include a sentence on your studies in your SOP, and having a more in depth knowledge of the field will help you when you write your SOP anyhow, so it's not wasted time. One thing I did was take MOOCs at the school I most wanted to get into. I took two MOOCs with Duke Sanford professors (although I didn't have time to complete one of them), and while I didn't have room to submit my grades on the Duke application, it did let me know what the classes would be like if I got in, and it helped me craft my SOP for the program. I imagine that if you went all out and won "best project," in a big MOOC from a school you were applying for it could really help your chances a lot! Some MOOCs even feature videos of in class discussions (Duke's did) and so it's also a great way to get to know a program, or make sure a program isn't over your head. Columbia also does a lot on Coursera if you are looking at SIPA. That being said, I think community college, if you can swing the few hundred dollars and make time for it, is a better investment simply because every school will take it for credit. CC classes in IR are pretty limited, but most will have macro and microeconomics, intro to international business, and some intro polisci courses. Obviously a language is a good use of time as well.

I'm taking it at Durham Technical Community College in Durham, NC. But they do make you come in for an orientation to register, so it won't work if you actually live out of the area. I got them to waive the math test because I already had a bachelor's degree, you could try a similar argument. I went to a CC up in MA too where you didn't need to go in to register. It was a bit more pricey, but it not much. I didn't have the math reqs for the chemistry classes I was in but they didn't care. Either way, orientation at CC in my experience has been pretty painless, you just need to cut 1-2 hours out of a day, and you can work it in on a Saturday if you need to. Duke told me they'd except a Coursera microclass, however I know many won't and given the amount of time you need to dedicate your better just paying the cash for a for-credit course. Also and A will boost your GPA if your sub 4.0 and CC classes are generally graded easier (depends hugely on the professor though).

Current unemployment rates for recent grads =/= long term outlook for various majors. Psych, for example, is overproduced at the undergrad level and social services are still being underfunded as the post-2007 recession depression drags on, however the long term outlook for mental health professionals is good. Political science is set to grow slower than average according the the BLS and lots of Boomers and Gen Xer's have taken the high level spots in the field and will likely go longer than previous generations before retiring, so in that sense, at the top, it's a tough field. Still, there are plenty of jobs for MPPs outside analyst positions.

Is there any reason CC isn't an option? Most of them do online courses for basic classes like micro, macro and calc. Out of state tuition for the online macro class I'm taking was less that $250.

If it makes you feel any better, one of my two recommendations for NYU Wagner didn't ever submit theirs and I was still accepted. Still, I know some schools, like UNC, explicitly state that they will refuse to even look at your application without everything there. I would write admissions. I am in the same boat, one of mine came in the day late (I don't get why they make the deadlines when during the holidays/weekends), and one is now 3 days late.

Also, how many federal agencies are headquartered in California Still, it's a valid point. DC schools are not a prerequisite to federal work. I assume people here favor DC so much in part because we have a lot of foreign policy and international development folks. For that line of work the northeastern corridor, with DC as the political capital of the nation, and NYC as the financial capital, is probably the best place to be location wise.

Ditto on the work experience part; it'd be great to get work if you can find it, and since you have 6 months to do so, you should try the route first. Some people will tell you that you 100% need work experience before you apply, but I disagree. If your options are school or doing something completely unrelated to what you want to work in, I'd take school provided you don't end up in major debt. Don't worry too much about rankings, decide where you want to work/live first. Connections are huge in federal, and most state hirings I've seen, even despite all the things they put in place to make it less of a factor. Being able intern where you want to work is a leg in the door, and you'll want to have knowledge specific to the state laws in the state you want to work if you're trying to land a job with no work experience.

Conventional wisdom I've seen from those with experience in IR here is that you need job experience to be competitive for getting into IR programs, and to be competitive once you graduate. If you're American Peace Corps is an excellent option. You'll learn another language and gain 27 months of international experience. Lots of big name policy and IR schools also have scholarships for PC volunteers. If that's too much of a commitment you should look at Americorps, which is domestic development work. VISTA programs pay very low wages, but if you're on the upper end of the upper middle class and can get help with a car and moving expenses it shouldn't be too painful. Finally there is post-graduation internships in IR; this blog has a bunch posted regularly which are relevant to aspiring policy and IR folks: if you can borrow money from family these can be great stepping stones. Obviously employment in the industry you want to study > anything else as it shows that employers think you are worth paying, but it's also the most competitive option.

My mom is a law professor, and my brother went through law school a few years ago, so I've been privy to a lot of their discussions: the take away point I've heard is "don't go to law school unless you want to become a lawyer!" Law school is, in general, much more expensive than getting an MPA. But even with financial aid, there are still lots of problems with the field. Lawyers have been massively over produced and supply far outweighs demand. Unless you can get into a top school, don't assume you'll have a job practicing law when you get out. And there in lies the problem, you're then stuck competing with a law degree, and no specific policy work experience, for policy jobs AND you have no law experience either. The flip side is: fewer people applied to law school in 2012 than were turned away in 2011. Seriously, it's crazy how far enrollment as plunged. So if you want to get into a top school, now is the time to apply because better schools are taking applicants with lower scores due to a dearth of talent entering the field.The other thing to consider is how well you do on the LSAT: law schools take the LSAT far more seriously than policy schools take the GRE. Plus lawyers have a very high median age. While the market is terrible now, by 2020 it should turn around provided the US hasn't had another financial meltdown by that point (rental backed subprimesque securities created by Blackstone have just been stamped AAA). Final thoughts: an MPA is great if you want to work in government or for a non-profit. Policy jobs will be harder to get. Political scientist positions are set to grow significantly slower than average according to the DOL.

Looks like we have some people with a lot of experience here. Admissions offices are pretty tight lipped about what it takes to get into a given program and it seems like a lot of the data that gets out to the internet isn't necessarily reliable so I'd love to see what you think? Programs: Duke Sanford MPP, North Carolina State MPA, University of North Carolina Chapel Hill MPA Undergraduate institution: Syracuse University Undergraduate Degree: Psychology Undergraduate GPA: 3.81 (heavy course load, graduated in 3 years) Major: 3.83 I also have some additional chem/bio courses from community college when I was trying to do prereqs for a neuroscience PhD (decided that was not for me) Study Abroad experience: Semester abroad in southern Chile with NOLS (mountaineering, sea kayaking, and emergency medicine curriculum) GRE: Verbal: 169 (99th percentile); Quant: 154 (57th percentile); AW 5.0 (93rd percentile) Years Out of Undergrad: 4 years Years of Work Experience: 2 years of relevant work Describe Relevant Work Experience: - currently work for a health policy/advocacy focused non-profit. I am head editor of our quarterly journal, sit on the states Governor's Advisory Council on our health issue of focus, and run our legislative advocacy initiative. I also staff a call line for resource referral. Been to national policy conferences, haven't presented though. - 1 year grants work focused on funding infrastructure rebuilding efforts working for FEMA. Communications work as well, answering state and congressional inquires into operations and policy. - Americorps program, basically civicly minded volunteering Other work after undergrad: - 1 year as a database admin for a large hospital. - 6 months a dog walker in Brooklyn (unfortunately in the middle of the winter of "snowmegeddon,") - 6 months as an ophthalmological technician/medical admin staff in a glaucoma clinic/research center - 1 summer as a rock climbing/backpacking guide and leader of a "leaders in training" program. - 1 summer as a real estate agent -- none of this is on my resume anymore except the hospital gig, but I do a cursory overview in my SOP. Languages: English (pathetic I know) Quantitative: Intro Stats, Statistics for the Social Sciences (A's in courses) - currently enrolled to take microeconomics and macroeconomics at community college this coming semester. SOP: I was living in New York City right as Occupy Wall St. got going, and I was there for all the more iconic moments (people arrested on the Brooklyn bridge, etc). I became disenchanted after everything fell apart pretty quickly, but it's an exciting way to get interested in public policy. I was already working with FEMA when Hurricane Sandy hit so I was there from the day after the storm hit. I got to act as secretary on high level meetings right as the response unfolded. Two exciting stories to tie into an interest in policy I guess. I also grew up in a pretty terrible city and went to a school with a graduation rate of about 25%, so I can say I've seen what failed policy looks like from a first hand perspective. I'm sure I could write a better essay as a health policy applicant given my 18+ months of hospital work, but it seems disingenuous since I'm more interested in social policy/global issues. Video: I only briefly touch on Hurricane Sandy in my SOP so I'm going to try to expand a bit on my intro video. I have a lot of powerful pictures from that time period. LOR: 1 professor, 2 former supervisors. (I think they should be good. I don't know if either of my supervisors have ever written a grad school recommendation before but I'm not sure if that matters. Questions: - No economics courses (I am allowed to show that I am enrolled to take them), is this a big liability? -OWS seemed like a good attention grabber to open on, but I'm worried that it's a contentious subject; Duke and UNC are quite liberal however. - Majored in an only tangentially related field, my course selection leaned towards neuroscience and biology - Less than stellar quant score. - Stated focus of global/social issues, but my work experience is mostly in the health sector. Do I have a decent chance? I know admissions is kind of a crap shoot. I feel pretty good about NC State because it admits a lot of people. I'm applying part time to the MPA programs and would most likely cast a wider net for good policy schools in the future with some some A's in graduate coursework under my belt. My wife and I are also considering the Peace Corps but that's a whole different discussion. Let me also ask, for what kind of positions are Ivy Tier names so important? I liked working with the Feds before, and I'd love to work in another federal position. A foreign service job sounds great but realistically I don't know how it'd mesh with family life and my wife's goals. Everything is done for now; I guess I just hold my breath for 4 months. Thanks for any input!

I work down the street. It's 77 and sunny today in December, a nice change in climate for anyone from up north. I might be attending their MPA program part time in the Fall 2014 as well. I'm weighing other options and waiting to get in-state tuition.

Well, I'll defer to those with more experience specific to ID, which I am not familiar with. I don't know to what extent ID/PP programs are able to manipulate their employment stats, but it does seem like top programs are placing almost every graduate in a position within 12 months. Given the 51% unemployment or underemployment rate for recent bachelor's graduates (25 and under) reported by as recently as 2012, I can see the appeal of those odds. Plus, I'd rather be in school now, in a down labor market, than right as things finally take off again; of course it's anyone's guess when that will be. If you're abroad two years, and in school for another two you might be getting out just as the economy stops being anemic. I'm wondering, since you say there is a surplus of ID masters graduates, do you know if the market is similar to law, where the vast majority of professionals are Boomers nearing retirement, or is it simply too many younger people trying to get into too small a field? I feel bad for recent law grads, but I figure they at least have a clock to wait out before lots of jobs begin to open up. But getting back to the original question: I would imagine an MPP, with it's more broad focus, would better prepare you for domestic work, no idea if it would make a difference in getting employment though.

Harvard's newspaper has pegged it at around 20% http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2010/4/15/kennedy-percent-school-number/

Applied 1,753 Accepted 369 Acceptance Rate 21% Enrolled 252 http://www.petersons.com/graduate-schools/harvard-university-john-f-kennedy-school-of-government-000_10022545.aspx I don't know if those are accurate though. Peterson's put Duke's public policy acceptance rate at 9%, which freaked me out as it's the only school I'm applying to this year. I think it might be that they only published the numbers for their PhD program however, whilst for HKS they've published numbers specific to the MPP program. TBH, this thread is making me feel like I've sold myself short, and should have tried to get into HKS, but it's a bit late now.

Good luck getting a quality job in ID with just a BA, especially if you didn't a lot of networking in undergrad or have a degree in anything other than policy/ID. I'm sure those jobs do exist, but the path into them is almost always unpaid internships which most can't afford. Anyhow, economic data suggests that those who load up on credentials earlier in life gain more from their investment than those who do so later, both in terms of their financial gains, and career attainment. I'd much rather be 26 and already be one year into a master's level job than be 26 and looking at 2 years of school. If you know for sure what you want to do, and you have the cash for school, you should get it done early. Plus, as you get older things like marriage, kids, aging parents, owning a home, etc. all make it harder to pack up everything and leave for a new city to go to the best school possible. That's way easier at 23 or 24. Having terminal credentials has added value as well, because without a big expenditure question mark hanging over your future you're better able to invest. You also have a definite idea what your post-graduation earnings look like. If you can pay equity into a mortgage rather than rent, or make an extra $15k a year from your degree, even the most expensive schools pay for themselves quite quickly provided you get halfway decent aid.

I didn't do the video essay for my NYU application and I still got in to Wagner, so I don't know how mandatory it is. For Duke I plan on doing one; I'm going to focus on my experience as a leader with my mountaineering experience in the Andes and my experience in the States as a climbing/backpacking guide. I figure it's a unique skill set and an example of fortitude and perseverance right? IDK if that's a good idea, not being an admissions expert, but I figured that I'd want to show them something to set me apart. I do fire poi, that thing where you dance around swinging balls of fire on chains, and it's a pretty unique cool looking talent so I might try to fit that in at the end. I hope they don't think I'm crazy

American University's School of International Service has a major in international conflict resolution and one in international peace and ethics. You might be interested in checking those out. Plus it's in DC, so like NYC, it has a lot of stuff in it's backyard.

I imagine a big hurdle would be clearances. Non-US Citizens are not allowed to have security clearances and security clearances are a huge deal in doing security work. You need a top secret clearance to work in the foreign service in any capacity for example. Foreign nationals can be granted Limited Access Authorizations if they have unique skills the government requires, but these are harder to get and will not be as comprehensive as a Top Secret clearance. Obviously not all jobs in a think tank will require clearances, but the kind of entry level hands on work that I would expect most security folks do early in their careers does seem to require clearances. It should be noted that these clearances are important even for third party employers who contract with the government. You can find out more here: http://www.dss.mil/isp/international/laa.html In the wake of the Snowden/Manning era I imagine that clearances will be harder to get as well. I think there is also a degree to which it's better to hold conservative political views as opposed to liberal ones if you want to avoid scrutiny, although that's just from reading a lot about the DOS and DOD, not personal experience.

I don't know how much I agree with that. At the very highest level, yes, it might initially get your resume a second glance if you come from a program with tremendous name recognition like Harvard of Princeton, but after that top echelon I think the value of a name decreases dramatically. Is anyone really going to have their eyes bug out seeing that you went to Duke as opposed to Syracuse, or NYU as opposed to the New School? I just don't think it will make a difference to most employers. Connections however, make a huge difference. It's not only how you land a job, it's how you find out about them in the first place. To that end, higher ranked programs that might not have the name recognition of an Ivy (Chicago, Duke, NYU, American) will still have great alumni networks, good internships, and prominent professors. Obviously significantly lower ranked programs might not offer as good opportunities. Harvard might have great name recognition, but if you're a shy person whose not great at networking with your professors, then being in a class of a few hundred might not be as good for you as a smaller program where you're one of thirty or forty students.

It depends on what you want to do. If you want to do IR focused work, I'd say IR is a better bet, if you want to work in management but in an international context, the MPA might be better suited for you. Finding employment with graduate level skills has a lot to do with networking, so I would investigate their alumni network and where they place students. How good the school is for networking probably has more to do with placement than how "practical," the program is. Personally, I'm not well suited for HR work or budgeting. It interest me only as a means to an end; I've always been focused on the theory and the big picture. If you're the same way, I say go for the IR degree even if it seems less practical. One of the best nuggets of advice I've ever gotten was "don't get good at a shitty job," or pretty much, don't try to specialize in what you don't want to do. However, if you like the more practical stuff because that's what you like to do (and I know some people do love the management and HR aspect of operations), than go with that. Any organization needs both big picture/theory people and practical operations focused folks.

I was accepted for Fall 2013; however, the thought of my wife and I paying to live in Manhattan for two years while also paying for most of a $40,000 a year school (I missed the priority aid deadline since I was working on Hurricane Sandy, as was my key recommendation) was enough to drive me away. A former professor of mine's daughter went there for their environmental program and she said that she loved it and couldn't be more happy. She's in the Peace Corps doing environmental work in eastern Europe now. It's a very good program, I think their urban planning program is ranked #2 nationally. It's especially good if you want to stay in the city. I think their Washington ties aren't quite as good as other schools like HKS, Duke, or American, although they do have a program that analyzes Congressional policies and assures internships in DC that accepts master's students. They have a really cool microfinance initiative there too. Their staff seemed really helpful when I met with them. I spoke to some current students when I was making up my mind and they said it's like a big family there, which will help if you're new to NYC. Are you going to be new to the city? I went to Pace University in lower Manhattan my freshman year, and returned to live in Brooklyn after graduating from Syracuse so I'm pretty familiar with NYC and the kind of unique housing market there. I briefly lived in Washington Heights in upper Manhattan, in terms of rent I'd recommend it more than the areas of Queens and Brooklyn right across the river as they are becoming as expensive as Manhattan. Unless you're independently wealthy I'd abandon any hopes of living near NYU, Washington Square area condos start at like $1.5 million

Also, you both seem to have liked your experiences. Where did you serve? I think our number one factor in accepting any given offer, aside from maybe the category of work, will be the strength of a country's individual program and the volunteer stories out of that program. Its too bad they haven't published survey data since 2008.