bureaucat

I would argue that there is no "best" Canadian MPP or MPA program (a distinction mostly without a difference in Canada). It really depends on what your career goals are upon graduation. Some programs are better suited to for federal government careers, some for provincial, some for municipal, others for research/PhD-track, etc. Ian Clark (UofT) and Leslie Pal (Carleton) put this helpful website together, which provides a helpful tool for comparing public policy/administration programs across countries, with a focus on Canadian programs: http://www.atlas101.ca/pm/. It's not perfect and some information is outdated, but it helps categorize the different programs according to policy/management focus and high/low quantitative focus. It also gives an idea of course offerings, program design, and how many "core competencies" each program provides. It's a good place to start your research, but beyond that your best source will be alumni from the programs that interest you. In my opinion and based on my experience, location is a key factor. A general rule of thumb would be to find a program in the seat of government for the level of govt that interests you. E.g. if you want to work for the feds, Carleton and uOttawa are your best choices; for Ontario govt, UofT/Ryerson/York; for BC govt, UVic, etc. Municipal is a bit different since only Western has a local govt-focused MPA program. As a final piece of advice, and against the conventional wisdom of gradcafe, school prestige doesn't matter for MPP/MPA programs in Canada (assuming you're going to be working in Canada). Most programs cover the same material (with some exceptions as you'll see on Atlas101) and govt employers regard all Canadian MPP/MPA programs fairly equally. In my view, the program that is a) closest to the seat of government that you want to work in, that b) offers you the most funding, c) has a paid internship/co-op, and d) has courses in areas of interest to you, will be the best program for you. Happy researching and best of luck!

From the perspective of government employers, I don't think the length of the program makes a difference -- a master's is a master's as far as they're concerned. For someone who doesn't already have a graduate degree or much work experience, a two-year program is a good way to build a deeper inventory of skills and experiences that will give an edge when competing for a first govt job. Putting myself in your position for a moment based on the info you provided, you already have a master's and plenty of work experience, so I would assume that the purpose of doing an MPA/MPP is to add a few specialized skills and gain access to the program's government networks, in which case, a one year program may suit you better. I just want to re-iterate, however, that I don't know all the specifics of your work experience and I did not attend either of the 2 programs you're considering. If you want to make a more informed decision, you could reach out to a few recent alumni (especially mid-career folks like you) from each program to get credible insight.

Neither program will "assign" you to working for the nearest levels of government to that school, but it will certainly give you an advantage when it comes to finding your first public service job. Generally, as you pointed out, if you want to start your public service career with the feds, then without a doubt Carleton is the better choice. If you want to start your career with OPS or the City, then go to Ryerson. In each case, there will simply be more co-op/internship opportunities for local students at the nearest levels of government, which in turn will allow you to get relevant experience and make connections with managers who can help you land your first policy job after you graduate. With the value of location in mind and considering your interests in social, education, and health policy -- mostly provincial domains -- I would say that Ryerson may be the better program for you. I wouldn't worry too much about each program's areas of specialty -- most Canadian MPA/MPP programs have the same basic slate of courses, and while electives vary, it's the policy work experience that will give you mobility between levels of government later on. In most cases, the point of a "professional" MPA/MPP program is to find a government job, so my advice is to take the program that will be most likely to land you a job at the level of government where you want to start your public service career.

This is a copy-paste of my post from another thread buried in the Psychology sub-forum (for some reason there was a Canadian MPA/MPP thread in there), but I just want to share this here to help folks make an informed decision, especially if they applied to Dalhousie's MPA program: I'd like to give a recent perspective (graduated in June 2016) on Dalhousie's MPA program for anyone who is weighing their options or considering applying (since you can apply until June). I'm going to get into some detail here, as I hope this post will help applicants make an informed decision about their MPA education for years to come, in the absence of other students/alumni speaking up. I made this post extremely detailed because I don't want anyone to spend the ~$18k for a program that you don't know enough about and end up regretting. This post provides some general advice for MPA applications as well. Overall experience: Would I recommend Dal's MPA? Maybe. It depends on what your goal is and what your other options are. If you want to work in the federal public service, go to Carleton or Ottawa. By virtue of their location, these are feeder schools for the feds. You will have plentiful co-op opportunities across departments, you can work throughout the school year through FSWEP, and this makes it infinitely easier to get into the federal government when you graduated through "student bridging" (i.e. a hiring manager can appoint you to a position without running a months-long selection process with tests, interviews, etc.). If you want to work for a provincial government, do an MPA program in that province. Although there is no bridging mechanism for the Ontario government, UofT and Queen's seem to successfully push their grads in that direction. If you want to work for a municipal government, generally you should go to the closest-located MPA program, except in Ontario, where you should consider Western's MPA that focuses on local government. If you want to do a PhD or pursue public policy research, Dal is not for you. Dal's MPA is course-based only, there are very limited research opportunities, and hardly any leading scholars left (shout out to Jeffrey Roy). If you only applied/got accepted to Dal, it's still worth going instead of waiting a year. By the time you graduate you will have taken all the courses that government employers want you to have (and many more). You will have government work experience (Dal's internship has had a 100% placement rate since it started 15+ years ago). Dal's program is more professional than academic, which governments appreciate. They recently added a professional development certificate program, which students hate but employers like. The bottom line is that you will not be that knowledgeable in any area of public policy (most courses are focused on public administration/management), but you will know how government works, and you will be very employable. Employment prospects: Pretty good. The Dal MPA is still a valued and well-regarded degree among government organizations (side note: don't get an MPA if you want to start your career in the non-profit or private sectors). Although your chances of being bridged into the federal government are lower than Ottawa-based programs, this program will equip you with the laundry list of qualifications that most government jobs require: econ, stats, policy analysis, research methods, government work experience, etc. When you're applying for a government job, it really doesn't matter where you went to school (unless you're a Rhodes/Marshall scholar or something). It's on you to demonstrate you have the qualifications -- your degree will not speak for you. Some anecdotal data: although I haven't kept in touch with everyone in my graduating class (~25), many of them got government jobs (ON, NS, Feds) within 6 months of graduation (including me) -- keeping in mind that application processes can take several months. Value for money: Okay. All in, the Dal MPA will cost you about $18,000. There are no entrance scholarships greater than $1000. There are a few little cash scholarships throughout the program ($800, $500, $1000), but nothing substantial. There are more expensive programs, but they usually offer more financial support. Fortunately, it's easy to get TA positions every semester ($1500-3000/semester). You are also near-guaranteed a summer internship that pays ~$10-12k for the summer. So, you can earn about a year's tuition through TAing and the internship, but you do have to work for it. Teaching quality: Poor. Honestly, this is my main complaint about Dal. Most of the curent group of core MPA instructors are terrible teachers -- disorganized, disinterested, or sometimes even disrespectful. It's very apparent that the School of Public Admin is in a state of flux; the golden age of the Dal MPA (which has been around since 1968) has passed, which is really too bad. The school used to be much better, with the likes of Aucoin, Pross, Brown, Lindquist, Bakvis (all have since died, retired, or moved), whose work you will read in any MPA/MPP program. The permanent faculty has continued to shrink, replacing PhDs with adjunct instructors who recently retired from government, shifting the balance too much in my view. If you're looking to be inspired by your professors, look elsewhere. Courses: Okay. The program is very course-heavy: 17 courses over 4 semesters, plus the summer internship. The first year of the program is all mandatory courses: these are the courses that governments want you to have under your belt. They are a mix of quantitative and qualitative courses, and unfortunately the quantitative courses are terrible, but you suffer through them to get the credits. In second year, you have mostly elective courses, which is somewhat misleading because the course offerings are quite limited, so you will have to take certain courses just to fill your schedule. There are virtually zero "<insert topic> policy" courses; Dal focuses heavily on public administration/management. Fortunately, you can take up to 3 courses in other departments, which you will do to find better instructors. Halifax: Love/hate. I loved Halifax. Many people (mostly from Toronto) did not. For a smaller city, it has many of the amenities of a large city (being not only the provincial capital, but the de facto regional capital). In my opinion, it was a great place to spend 2 years. I enjoyed making weekend trips to see the rest of Atlantic Canada, and I appreciated the laid back atmosphere of the city. The weather is not great -- lots of precipitation year-round, damp, windy (lots of snow days!). But the temperate (but short) summer weather was great. TL;DR: Dal should not be your first choice, unless it is your only choice. Frankly, there are better MPA programs for every career goal (feds, province, municipal, PhD/research), unless you want to live and work in Atlantic Canada. But you will have all the qualifications public sector employers want you to have, you will have government experience, and you will be employable.

Happy to help! The Dal website is frankly misleading -- some of the elective courses listed have not been offered for years, and about half of the faculty members listed do not teach or even have offices in the School. I think Dal and UVic are similar in that they are regionally located schools with a national focus, i.e. they focus on federal government and have strong connections throughout the federal public service. I should have stated that for the most part, in Canada an MPA/MPP is basically the same no matter where you go. No particular program will put you at a disadvantage, except I would argue that a program without a co-op/internship is not worth it. All programs have the same slate of mandatory courses, which often mirror the qualifications for most policy analyst jobs. Best of luck with your applications!

Long time lurker, first time poster -- I remember coming across a thread like this back when I was applying to MPA programs and unfortunately there was sparse information on the Dal MPA from actual students/alumni. So, I'm here to give a recent perspective (graduated in June 2016) on the program for anyone who is weighing their options or considering applying (since you can apply until June). I'm going to get into some detail here, as I hope this post will help applicants make an informed decision about their MPA education for years to come, in the absence of other students/alumni speaking up. I made this post extremely detailed because I don't want anyone to spend the ~$18k for a program that you don't know enough about and end up regretting. This post provides some general advice for MPA applications as well. Overall experience: Would I recommend Dal's MPA? Maybe. It depends on what your goal is and what your other options are. If you want to work in the federal public service, go to Carleton or Ottawa. By virtue of their location, these are feeder schools for the feds. You will have plentiful co-op opportunities across departments, you can work throughout the school year through FSWEP, and this makes it infinitely easier to get into the federal government when you graduated through "student bridging" (i.e. a hiring manager can appoint you to a position without running a months-long selection process with tests, interviews, etc.). If you want to work for a provincial government, do an MPA program in that province. Although there is no bridging mechanism for the Ontario government, UofT and Queen's seem to successfully push their grads in that direction. If you want to work for a municipal government, generally you should go to the closest-located MPA program, except in Ontario, where you should consider Western's MPA that focuses on local government. If you want to do a PhD or pursue public policy research, Dal is not for you. Dal's MPA is course-based only, there are very limited research opportunities, and hardly any leading scholars left (shout out to Jeffrey Roy). If you only applied/got accepted to Dal, it's still worth going instead of waiting a year. By the time you graduate you will have taken all the courses that government employers want you to have (and many more). You will have government work experience (Dal's internship has had a 100% placement rate since it started 15+ years ago). Dal's program is more professional than academic, which governments appreciate. They recently added a professional development certificate program, which students hate but employers like. The bottom line is that you will not be that knowledgeable in any area of public policy (most courses are focused on public administration/management), but you will know how government works, and you will be very employable. Employment prospects: Pretty good. The Dal MPA is still a valued and well-regarded degree among government organizations (side note: don't get an MPA if you want to start your career in the non-profit or private sectors). Although your chances of being bridged into the federal government are lower than Ottawa-based programs, this program will equip you with the laundry list of qualifications that most government jobs require: econ, stats, policy analysis, research methods, government work experience, etc. When you're applying for a government job, it really doesn't matter where you went to school (unless you're a Rhodes/Marshall scholar or something). It's on you to demonstrate you have the qualifications -- your degree will not speak for you. Some anecdotal data: although I haven't kept in touch with everyone in my graduating class (~25), many of them got government jobs (ON, NS, Feds) within 6 months of graduation (including me) -- keeping in mind that application processes can take several months. Value for money: Okay. All in, the Dal MPA will cost you about $18,000. There are no entrance scholarships greater than $1000. There are a few little cash scholarships throughout the program ($800, $500, $1000), but nothing substantial. There are more expensive programs, but they usually offer more financial support. Fortunately, it's easy to get TA positions every semester ($1500-3000/semester). You are also near-guaranteed a summer internship that pays ~$10-12k for the summer. So, you can earn about a year's tuition through TAing and the internship, but you do have to work for it. Teaching quality: Poor. Honestly, this is my main complaint about Dal. Most of the curent group of core MPA instructors are terrible teachers -- disorganized, disinterested, or sometimes even disrespectful. It's very apparent that the School of Public Admin is in a state of flux; the golden age of the Dal MPA (which has been around since 1968) has passed, which is really too bad. The school used to be much better, with the likes of Aucoin, Pross, Brown, Lindquist, Bakvis (all have since died, retired, or moved), whose work you will read in any MPA/MPP program. The permanent faculty has continued to shrink, replacing PhDs with adjunct instructors who recently retired from government, shifting the balance too much in my view. If you're looking to be inspired by your professors, look elsewhere. Courses: Okay. The program is very course-heavy: 17 courses over 4 semesters, plus the summer internship. The first year of the program is all mandatory courses: these are the courses that governments want you to have under your belt. They are a mix of quantitative and qualitative courses, and unfortunately the quantitative courses are terrible, but you suffer through them to get the credits. In second year, you have mostly elective courses, which is somewhat misleading because the course offerings are quite limited, so you will have to take certain courses just to fill your schedule. There are virtually zero "<insert topic> policy" courses; Dal focuses heavily on public administration/management. Fortunately, you can take up to 3 courses in other departments, which you will do to find better instructors. Halifax: Love/hate. I loved Halifax. Many people (mostly from Toronto) did not. For a smaller city, it has many of the amenities of a large city (being not only the provincial capital, but the de facto regional capital). In my opinion, it was a great place to spend 2 years. I enjoyed making weekend trips to see the rest of Atlantic Canada, and I appreciated the laid back atmosphere of the city. The weather is not great -- lots of precipitation year-round, damp, windy (lots of snow days!). But the temperate (but short) summer weather was great. TL;DR: Dal should not be your first choice, unless it is your only choice. Frankly, there are better MPA programs for every career goal (feds, province, municipal, PhD/research), unless you want to live and work in Atlantic Canada. But you will have all the qualifications public sector employers want you to have, you will have government experience, and you will be employable.