PsyDuck90

FYI, programs are required to post their student admissions outcome data as part of maintaining APA-accreditation, so this data is publicly available on their websites. The following numbers are all for 2019, except for EPPP pass rates, as the latest data is for 2017 for some reason. Kean: incoming class size: 12, APA-accredited internship match rate: 80% (1 person went for a non-APA-accredited internship), EPPP pass rate: 100%, and cost: $24,674 per year out of state, $20,178 per year in state LIU Post: incoming class size: 22, APA-accredited internship match rate: 100%, EPPP pass rate: 83.87%, and cost: $52,964 per year (yikes!) St. John's, you didn't specify Clinical PhD or School PsyD, so here are both. PhD: incoming class size: 10, APA-accredited internship match rate: 100%, EPPP pass rate: 90%, and cost: $45,600 per year, but it appears all students get assistantship with full tuition waiver. School PsyD: incoming class: 17, APA-accredited internship match rate: 9% (very worrisome. School psychology does not require an APA-accredited internship, but these numbers are still very surprisingly low especially compared to EPPP pass rates, since that means these students were interested in pursuing clinical licensure as school psychology does not require it), EPPP pass rate: 85.19%, and cost: $33,480 per year If the St. John's offer was for the PhD, I would rank St. John's first and a toss up between Kean and LIU based on research fit. The match rate at LIU is better, but it is twice as expensive. The Kean EPPP pass rate is 100%, which makes me think that the 1 person who didn't go the APA-accredited internship route was not interested in clinical licensure at all. If St. John's is the PsyD, I would rank that program last.

You can totally pursue a non-licensable PhD. Just know that you can't ethically advertise yourself as a doctoral level provider and the degree will most likely not equate to a higher earning potential for clinical work. What are your goals in pursuing doctoral work? Depending on what it is, a PhD in Educational Psychology may or may not fit your goals.

Definitely La Salle. Adler's cohort is about twice the size (58 at Adler vs 22 at La Salle). The APA-accredited internship match rate is better at La Salle than Adler (96% vs 86% which is really a much bigger difference since more students applying at Adler). EPPP pass rates are also better (89% vs 66%). Overall, La Salle has a better reputation in the field as well. Tuition also seems to be cheaper (although the debt burden of both isn't really something to sneeze at).

Between those 2, I would go with Yeshiva. If you look at the outcomes data, it's a safer bet. Much smaller cohort sizes (William James had 103 incoming students last year compared to 20 in Yeshiva's combined program) and even with a captive APA-accredited internship (which is half time for 2 years, and also not great), William James still doesn't have a 100% APA-accredited internship match rate, and it looks like the match rates hovered at or below 50% prior to the start of the captive internship, meaning the bulk of these students were not nationally competitive for internship. Yeshiva reports a 100% APA-accredited match rate for students who applied to accredited sites last year, with a cumulative 72.2% matching to accredited sites of all students when factoring in those who did not go the APA-accredited match route (which makes sense if a portion of the students were interested in pursuing school psychology only, as that doesn't require an APA-accredited internship). Although, it is a little odd that the outcomes data for Yeshiva'a combined PsyD is not easily accessible on the website, since that is a requirement for APA accreditation. I eventually found it on the APA directory.

You may get better feedback in the economics forum, as I'm a little out of my depth here. However, I would maybe start by looking at job listing for positions you would like to apply for once you graduate. What kinds of degrees do people have in these positions? What is the average starting salary? Even if you are not footing the bill, the question of whether or not the tuition cost is commensurate with expected starting salaries is still very relevant. Quite honestly, a $10k pay bump after getting the degree doesn't seem worth it to me unless the total costs associated with getting the degree were only $10-20k, so I would definitely try to get a better ballpark figure for starting salary after the degree.

It really doesn't make a difference. What they keep on file is your official transcript. The important thing is you were awarded the degree prior to the start of your program if that was a requirement.

This is definitely not my field, but even if Sciences Po isn't well known in the US, you are also still getting a degree from LSE, which you said is well known. Also, how much debt would you be in after this degree? Is it more than you can expect to be making in your first job post-grad? That would be the biggest factor for me-what is the return on investment?

A degree in Educational Psychology is a research degree and will not make you eligible for licensure to be a practicing psychologist. If your goal is to get licensed and work with patients/clients, then you need to go to a Clinical, Counseling, or, in some states, a School Paychology PhD or PsyD program.

That doesn't matter. And while Baruch specifically does not, CUNY has a few PhDs, and CUNY has a MUCH better reputation than Yeshiva. The biggest factor for getting into a PhD/PsyD is really going to be research experience. Most of the good quality PsyDs still require some research. I'm in a PsyD, and mostly everyone came in with some pretty extensive research experience along with clinical experience. If your ultimate goal is a doctoral program, unless your undergrad was not in psych or your GPA wasn't great, a paid research coordinator position will be much more beneficial for you than a master's in mental health counseling. Check out all the different hospitals in the area and see if anyone is hiring. Right now is when the current cycle of students have gotten accepted to PhD and PsyD programs, so their jobs will be up for grabs. Columbia Presbyterian, NYU, etc. all do tons of research.

I'm guessing Baruch is the cheaper one? CUNYs pretty typically provide solid training for a fraction of the cost of comparable programs. LPCs don't make a whole ton of money, even in NYC, so the cheaper program will almost always be the best bet. Most training in MHC programs happens in clinical placements anyway.

Usually they have large cohorts, low APA-accredited internship match stats, low EPPP pass rates, and high tuition. I think tuition is a very big thing to look at, as some PsyDs cost more than $100K+ over the course of the program, and this level of debt is just not commensurate to what psychologists make. There are also some PsyDs that aren't necessarily predatory and will provide a good education, but they will put you so far into debt that the return on investment just isn't there. Keep in mind that full funding in Clinical Psychology is the norm and not the exception. For instance, in my university-based PsyD, past everyone gets some sort of funding, whether it is an RAship, adjunct teaching, or a graduate assistantship in an administrative role (like the psych department or elsewhere on campus). Pretty much everyone gets at least half funding, if not full funding in tuition remission and pay/stipend. Also, it isn't common for PsyDs or PhDs to be interviewing soon, so I would be wary just based off that-are they trying to grab people desperate to get in anywhere as the application season is ending? If you want more specific feedback, feel free to PM me if you don’t want to share the name of the school on here.

It's wayyyy cheaper. Those 3 are honestly on par, but cheaper cost bumps Kean up.

In my opinion,, Rutgers Clinical PsyD is the best out of all of them, probably followed by their School PsyD. I would probably then rank Kean, followed by Yeshiva and Pace as probably pretty even.

It's hard to give advice if we don't know the specific program. There are especially a lot of predatory PsyDs (and I say this as a PsyD student) that market themselves as competitive but actually have a horrible reputation in the field. If you aren't comfortable disclosing here, feel free to PM me.

Check out this thread for clinical psych applicants in Canada.

April 15th is the deadline that everyone has to decide by. Someone who is holding an offer and holding out for a better choice has to cut their losses and either choose the offer in hand or roll the dice that the waitlist will come through. If there wasn't a firm deadline, the process would go on forever because someone could be holding an offer from the program you're waitlisted on because they are also on a waitlist for somewhere else.

People can still get off waitlists after April 15th since schools are getting final answers from 1st round offers at that time. Someone who is holding an offer but on a waitlist for their top choice may be holding that offer until the deadline.

I'm sure most schools have probably not made that decision yet, as they haven't even finalized their current incoming class. Getting in is mostly about research fit, so you're far better off looking for faculty that fit with your research lists and narrowing your programs of choice that way rather than basing it off of who's still requiring the GRE.

Honestly, the whole field of clinical psychology is so competitive in general that the differences in subfields are so minute. I would say I've heard that neuro, child, and eating disorders research tends to be a bit more niche and exclusive. However, that's in the US. I'm not sure about Canada.

That's so great!

Honestly, the ivy league title really only applies to undergrad. Graduate school, especially in mental health, is a totally different thing, and rankings means less. Often times, these ivy league programs charge insane tuition just because of the ivy league brand, which just doesn't have the same pull at the grad level for some fields as it does for undergrad (business and law are two major exceptions--an MBA or JD for Penn, Columbia, etc. does open more doors than one from a state school, but mental health counseling....not really). If you're looking at strictly research, faculty fit is probably the biggest factor. You also have way more time to actually do good research in a PhD than an MS.

If your options are a fully funded PhD from a reputable state university vs an out-of-pocket expense master's program, I would take the PhD. A PhD in Clinical Psychology is a much more flexible degree than a masters in counseling. You typically get far more experience in the theory of therapy and clinical experience during your training, and you leave with more diversity in options: therapy, assessment, teaching, etc. Also, the lessened debt load can make a huge financial impact.

Yes. There may be some people who have biases and preferences, but from a state licensing perspective, the two degrees are the same.

It's the same exact license at the end of the day. There are some minor philosophical differences, with more of the multicultural counseling and diversity research coming out of counseling psychology, but there are for more similarities than differences and no distinction post graduation.

And unfortunately with further cuts to CMS and counselors' inability to bill Medicare, earnings are going to continue to get worse unfortunately. So definitely research where alumni are working and average income for LPCs in your target area are (with an expectation to be making on the lower end for the first few years of your career, especially before licensure and about 5-7 years post-licensure). I say this because I know so many people who spent so much money on a degree and are so far in debt and not making as much money as they thought they would, which is preventing them from buying houses, starting families, etc.