dogeared

Yup exactly! Every department is different. You can get more of a feel for the style of the program by looking at alumni work.

I understand completely tbh! Like I said, this was just what my program was like. No advice is universal. I don't think it is "punishment." Professors simply want to admit people who can actually benefit from the program. If you have already po9lished your style completely, an MFA might not be the next best step for your career. There is nothing wrong with this. Every path is different. All of this is subjective, like it or not. It just depends on the committee.

I will say that I didn't get to read every single application myself. I'm finishing my thesis right now so that would have been too much to put on me anyway. Fiction gets a lot of applications compared to poetry and nonfiction. I got to read about 35 that they picked out of the whole bunch as a sort of longlist for the 4 slots we have open. We all read every single page of every 30-page sample in that longlist and discussed them. I asked them how they narrow it down, and they said they look for something in the sample that sticks out, even if its just a really magical paragraph. I'm assuming this means they read more than just the first two pages. If they do cut it down, I'm assuming they would at least read the first five pages lol? I know it sounds harsh, but someone could pick up your book at the bookstore and tell within the first few pages if it works for them or not. I will add this to the list of things I ask in an email I'll send to them tonight. If you have any more, please let me know! I will be sure to get a direct answer from them, but I am pretty doubtful that they can read the entire 30 pages of every single application. I could be wrong though! These professors have lots of experience and can definitely spot things quickly, but they are also human and might miss out on something amazing just due to the sheer amount of applications. That is a heartbreaking possibility I definitely thought about. One of the professors said a particular story "grew on them" as it went on, so they weren't in love with it within the first few pages but something made them want to keep reading. This is the reality of being a writer. When you send stories out for publication, they don't read every single page of every single submission. If they aren't interested by a certain page, then they might assume a reader of the journal wouldn't be either. It's rough to think about lolol. This is why I always put my most interesting stories at the beginning of my samples.

Hi Cristie! I'm not comfortable talking about my program specifically until after April 15. I don't know who is here or lurking that may have applied and I don't want any weird conflict of interest or anything lolol. I may be being too cautious but oh well. I'll definitely talk to you about it after April 15! Regarding rejection letters, I didn't ask about this. I can definitely ask and get back to you, but I'm pretty sure this differs depending on the head of the program. They have a bunch of people to reject, and are reviewing applications while teaching and writing their own novels and participating in committees -- personalized rejections must be impossible to do for hundreds of applicants. They probably just need to get straight to the point. It sucks, but I tried not to take them personally when I received them. I will definitely ask, though!

Hi! Yes, great question I can definitely elaborate on. Definitely followed traditional themes, styles, and plot devices. Sometimes we could predict what was going to happen or what choice the author was going to make. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it wasn't exciting? I had trouble picturing these people in workshop. Or sometimes the plot/concept was interesting, but it was executed in ways that weren't testing the writer's limits?? If that makes sense. It seemed like these writers had already found and polished a style and tone that wouldn't really benefit from going to graduate school -- they could definitely start their writing career successfully while grad school would be life-changing for other applicants. This also reflects the personal taste of the committee, which differs everywhere! These were just my specific observations in my institution. Different programs work better for specific styles and aesthetics, which is definitely something that everyone can benefit from considering when creating their list.

Maybe I'll make a Google Doc haha! Congrats on not needing to apply again. And yeah, a PhD in Creative Writing definitely isn't necessary at all. If you want to teach creative writing, an MFA and a published book are usually enough. I decided to do a PhD because I wanted more formal education in literature rather than just creative writing. My MFA did have lit classes for sure, but not enough for me to get experience teaching literature. I did get to teach undergrad creative writing, but I also want to publish academically and teach literature. I applied for a mix of English Lit and Creative Writing PhDs. The one I'm going to is kind of a mix of both, which is perfect for me. Besides, getting funded to write a novel isn't a bad choice to me considering the current landscape of things -- getting hired to teach at universities is always a bit rough, but especially now. A PhD will give me more time to write, some sort of income, and more teaching experience.

Hi friends! LONG POST INCOMING. I hope it is helpful. Some weeks back I mentioned that my institution has one final-year student in each genre join the admissions committee and review incoming apps. I got to review incoming fiction applications. I'm very grateful for the behind-the-scenes view I got of the admissions process. This week we finally had our meeting to finalize our list of offers (it was a 3-hour meeting). I wanted to offer some advice and share some observations for anyone applying again next cycle. As a note, of course no advice will be universal. Every department and every writer is different. There is no surefire way to guarantee admission to a program. These are just things I've realized as an MFA student/adcom member and wished I knew before applying. Your writing sample is the most important thing. I think people have been told this already, but I want to emphasis this point. Your CV is not as important. Of course, it might not hurt to have a flourishing CV, but having more publications and experience in literature/writing won't mean much if your writing sample doesn't stand out from the bunch. The CV was the last thing we looked at in applications. Perfect and polished work isn't always the best. It sounds a bit weird -- I know. Of course, you should send what you are confident in. But ultimately, you are meant to grow stronger as a writer in an MFA program. If your writing sample doesn't show that you would benefit from graduate school, then some profs in admissions question what they would even be able to teach you. Think about whether you would benefit from workshop and formal education. The most excited manuscripts to read (which we all agreed on unanimously) were the ones that did something interesting and were kind of rough around the edges. This might not be the case for institutions that value something different than ours, but it is important to us that writers can really grow and get something out of our program. We weren't as excited about people who sent by-the-books "perfect" stories. The writing was great, but it was hard to picture these applicants in a workshop. This is difficult because we always want to submit the best work possible to programs. But to the admissions committees, this sample is all they can use to determine if you would benefit from graduate school. This is something I didn't think about until I was behind the scenes. I noticed myself much less interested in pieces that were perfect. Everyone on the committee was excited about the possibilities for growth they saw in a manuscript and for the successful risk takers that tried something interesting that surprised them. (Again, though, every program and committee will be different) The mindset behind reviewing MFA apps is very different from the mindset behind reviewing litmag submissions. Luckily, I have years of experience reading for litmags. In that scenario, you want to find the polished, well-written, balanced stories that don't need as much work. The ones that are ready for publication. The mindset is different when reviewing writing samples for MFA apps. We generally were interested in innovative forms/perspectives/styles that would greatly benefit from years of workshop and formal education. You do not need an MFA from a highly-ranked program. You do not need the shortest program possible. Look at funding and program fit before anything else! Really think about why you want an MFA. Hopefully you want it because you want to become a stronger writer and work with a community of other writers. Maybe there is a faculty member at the institution you're applying to that you really admire and want to work with. Maybe you want it to pursue a teaching career in creative writing. These are all great reasons to me. But if you just want the MFA to have the MFA, chances are you will make the wrong choices when it comes to which programs to apply to. You might get accepted to these places and not feel fulfilled. When I was first applying to MFAs in 2017, I was really interested in the big-name schools that would make me feel accomplished and important on paper. And I was really interested in the shortest programs possible. I think big-name schools are still worth applying to, of course, if you genuinely believe you could thrive and grow in that school's environment then I definitely think you should apply. And I always encourage "aiming high" because why not? But make sure the faculty and culture of that place fit with your goals. And I genuinely can say that most people I know who have MFAs agree on longer, fully-funded programs being the better choice over 1-year ones. After all, you are there to learn and work on a manuscript. If you can get paid for years to really dig into your work, I would take that. 1-year programs might be stressful and overbearing, and you might finish feeling like you were able to grow or absorb any actual information. Having the time and space to experiment and question everything is really valuable. But everyone is different! Maybe you thrive under pressure or you have other commitments and life situations that make shorter programs more ideal. That totally makes sense. No matter what though, please please please look for FUNDING. If you only aim for the most popular programs, your chances for funding are lower. There is a larger applicant pool. That is a fact. Try adding some lesser-known schools with great faculties. They often have a bunch of funding for you and a smaller applicant pool. After all, if your reasoning for getting an MFA is to learn and grow as a writer, then the name of the school shouldn't be what is most important to you. I stand by this fully. And again, I still think its great to try for more famous programs...don't say no for them. AGAIN: This advice may vary by writer, by program, by admissions committee. Nothing is black-and-white. I just found these things to be really important to consider. This is a lot of writing lol. I'm sorry for the wall of text. I'm happy to DM anyone who wants to talk more. I am graduating with my MFA (fiction) in May, and I've been accepted into a PhD program for English Lit and Creative Writing for the Fall. I am happy to answer any questions! Good luck!

Yeah...the school I got into told me there were 3 times more applicants than usual this year. This cycle is just really rough....

Omg! Congrats..that is so exciting hahah what a cute reaction from her awwww

Sorry to hear about this! I remember seeing a post from you because we are both also interested in creative writing. I agree with @kirbs005... the "why" part seems to be really important. Like, what is the bigger picture with your research, why do you think it is an important contribution to the field(s), why did you gravitate toward it in the first place? I feel like putting your research into perspective like this is a cool way of packaging your research up as something you're trying to "sell" (which I guess that's what we are trying to do with these SOPs....as ugly as it sounds lol). You might have already done all of this, if so then disregard all of this haha! In terms of what to do for the next year: just do what you can. I don't think volunteering as a reader at a journal is a bad idea at all. I do think that showing you are doing personal research in your own time would definitely benefit you on an app whether it is through online classes are starting a blog or something. I don't think it has to be anything extravagant. It would just send the message that this research is something you *need* to do. You can definitely get creative with it, I think. But of course, don't break your back for it and overload yourself. Depending on the kind of program and environment you want to be in, I think that you can kind of get a feel for the type of stuff they would find impressive. I know someone whose successful YouTube channel helped them in applications because of the nature of their research -- so doing something that shows you are serious about the research and willing to approach it in your unique way could be something that some places value above publications... (I'm personally more into that sort of education and not so much in to "professional experience" and CVs being the sole representation of a human). So definitely make sure you apply to places that fit your style, whatever you choose to do. There are programs with professors who are really just wanting to see something different, from what I've been told. I think you could get super creative with your research interests. They sound so so so cool, honestly. I really want to hear more about them. And the obvious would be strengthening writing samples. I just looked at what I submitted a few months ago and I'm already cringing at it hahaha. If you can talk to someone who is currently a PhD student, they might be able to give you direct feedback if they have time. Maybe in the summer? If you have any way of contacting someone you trust, that would be great. Even a past professor from your MA perhaps? I know that people are busy and stuff but if you ask far enough in advance, people seem really eager to help.

Omgggg I'm sending you any positive energy I can today! I mostly lurk but I see how much you support everyone in this lil virtual community. I'm really hoping for the best for you. ❤️ I understand the anxiety that comes with not being able to plan anything...I feel like this entire last year has done that to a lot of us re: the pandemic. We either can't make plans or we do and then the universe laughs in our faces haha. Grad apps are another added layer on top of everything else. You're doing amazing, though, and we all really appreciate your presence. I really feel like any school would benefit from having you around. I'm hoping you hear good news back from the waitlists soon!

Sending you all some positive energy this Monday. You are talented regardless of rejections/acceptances. And you are pretty amazing for working so hard for something you care about. I am hoping for the best for you all! I haven't posted in this thread yet, as I applied to both Creative Writing PhDs and Literature PhDs this round.. I've mostly been in the other thread. But I am currently in the final semester of my fiction MFA program. This year my MFA program decided to pick one student from each genre who is in their final year and add them to a sort of admissions review committee. Since I was chosen as the fiction representative, I get to look at incoming fiction applications and give my feedback to the department. I won't say which program I'm in (confidentiality and all that), and I wanted to stay away from this thread because I didn't want to accidentally stumble upon someone applying to my program. But I wanted to say that there are so many talented people applying. Rejection doesn't mean you aren't talented...from what I've seen it just means that the people in the department at the time just aren't a good fit for your that year. And of course...funding is limited. I've worked with literary journals and have similar things to say with that...there are amazing stories that we reject because they just aren't a fit for the journal, or because the Editor just isn't feeling it (it sucks lol). Saying all this doesn't change the fact that rejection doesn't feel good. I got rejected from every MFA program I applied to except the one I'm in now (and even then I barely made it off the waitlist). I have no publications in any literary journals. Rejection doesn't feel good at all and it is okay to feel disappointed. You're allowed to have feelings. You aren't wrong for your feelings. I just wanted to send you some encouragement from someone on the other side who is very familiar with rejection. I am sincerely hoping for the best for everyone. And I hope you get into the programs that would nurture your talents the best. ❤️ If anyone has questions about MFA programs, feel free to message me. I won't talk about my current experience with admissions review because it is confidential and I would never talk about someone else's submissions, but I'm happy to talk about anything else!

Congratulations! ❤️

congrats omg thats amazing!!! what a nice thing to hear today!

Great change imo. Down with standardized testing.