Hopin'-n-Prayin'

Safferz et al., If you look at the broad spectrum of historical study, I think it is pretty clearly colored by the subjective perspective of particular historians and historical schools. Bias and subjectivity, even when not butressed by unseemly motives or outright prejudice, more or less always exist. The very nature of historical work suggest this has to be true. How can one set forth and support a theory of what has transpired amongst previous generations, or why, without being heavily influenced by their own experiences? Because subjectivity is so subconsciously intertwined into historical study, I believe that credibility requires us to be particularly careful not to purposefully interject contemporary motivations. This is especially true of political motivations, they tend cloud objectivity to a greater degree than other motivations. This is NOT to say that blatant injustices/discrepencies (such as the one Safferz referred to) should not be redressed. Rather, that the conscious use of politics dilutes the overall credibilty of historical study.

Having just finished my MA, I am teaching two sections of world civ while I wait it out...that helps a lot, but still the wait is TORTUOUS. There are just so many variables, from the rather icky zero admits to the wonderful world of mutliple admits. I got a wife and one-year old, so the lack of certaintly is alogether unsettling. Still, in a sick kind of way, it is kind of a delightfully tantalizing wait. For instance, as of now, I have not been rejected anywhere, so in my spare time I can indulge in the "what if I get into both Yale and Princeton?" fantasy or the game of "where would my family be happier living: Nowheresville, Illinois or Iceburg, NY?" The balance, and incessancy, of the optimism and the pessimism is striking...

The best math prep section, in my opinion, is Kaplan. Their 100 math concepts really 'compartmentalizes' the material, makes it more practical and less abstract and amorphous.

Chiqui, You have probably already heard this, but the 1st piece of advice is to NOT write about your passion for history and how you have been drawn to history documentaries since you were kid. Write about more concrete goals and intellectual pursuits. What do you want to study (for instance, my areas of interest are early American religion and the ante-bellum South). Do you have a specific research agenda? If so, how can you further it in the program you are presently applying to? Will your pursuits advance the field and how? If you do not know the answers to these questions, it may be a good idea to reflect on and research these issues in the next 2-3 weeks before writing the SoP. Having said all that, I just finished my MA in history at my local state university. Not knowing any better, in my SoP I wrote about my passion for history since I was a kid... One of my profs clued me in that this type of SoP works in programs that need all the students they have, but it probably is one of the first eliminators at more competitive programs. Hope this helps...

I have had more than one advisor at top programs tell me that the GRE is one of the first things they look at in order to whittle the stack of applications from several hundred to a few dozen which they will look at more thoroughly...

I would like to reiterate the point which others have made (which it seems like you understand) about the value of an M.A. in helping to prepare you for the PhD application process and for the rigors of a studying history at a top program. I would also say that, if you properly investigate all of the options, over time your best option will likely make itself apparent to you... Good luck

NMH, I feel bad...I wasn't in any way trying to assert that you or anyone else was being flippant or doing anything else that warranted an apology. I guess my point is two-fold: 1. I do believe that History, Classical studies and other humanities and social science adcomms consider the Math score relevant...and 2. I beleive that I feel this way because I did well on math. I suspect that how one does on the "other" section heavily influences how that person assesses its importance. Also, you are right about the GRE words in historical works, they are used alot... Anyway, I apologize for putting you on the defensive

I know a lot of people look at like this, and thus downplay the significance of the Math portion on the GRE, but the same logic could easily apply to the Verbal section. When are we going to need to know the GRE words? There are many suitable and easier synonyms for words like bellicose, ebullient and intransigent. The math section is a test of critical reasoning in the purest sense...if your brain can interpret the questions, identify the appropriate rule to apply, and correctly apply it, this is strong evidence of high-level problem-solving skills. I am not at all trying to suggest that those who do score well on the Math do not possess great problem-solving skills, I just believe that doing well on the Math section has some value to those applying to disciplines which appear to require verbal, and not math, prowess. Like I said, it is indicative of sound critical reasoning and application at a high level... Any one agree?? Disagree?? (I'm curious if people will agree or disagree on strict 'party' lines. In other words, will people who did well on the Math agree with me and will people who did not do well disagree...)

So close! I had a paper accepted and was planning on toting the wife and kid there, but then I graduated and my school pulled my funding b/c I am no longer a student- so I had to w/draw from the conference... (btw...on all my apps, I listed this as "conference paper accepted, unable to present"...lol...didn't want to lose a chance to add some width to the dossier...)

Thanks Nasteel, with any luck...uh, I mean with a lot of luck...OK, if God himself intervenes on my behalf!!!!...I'll see you in the fall

Math scores tend be considerably higher than verbal, so the 640 math, though seemingly impressive on its face, would not really be "pretty good" because of how many test takers would have scored higher (as opposed to a 640 raw verbal, which would typically be in the low to mid 90th percentile)... I hope that makes more sense of it

There are alot of pretty strong M.A. programs that offer funding and tuition reductions. I just finished an M.A. program at a cash-strapped state school that gave me an 80% waiver and 4k/ semester stipend...and the faculty is loaded with published scholars that went to top 25 programs. Bottom line, if you do not get into a Ph.D. program, do not summarily disregard the M.A. track- though it may take some effort to find the right one(s) to apply to, it could get defintely put you in a good position for the future.

I can only speculate as to your question, but I would not count on the adcomms considering GRE scores for a test that was not only submitted, but also taken, after the deadline. While you probably cannot hurt your application by submitting late scores (some may perceive doing this as an act of hubris, as though you feel you are above the rules), your time and money may be better served setting out a game plan for studying/re-taking the test early in next years application process if you strike out this year.

From the buzz that I have heard, each school has its own policy regrading multiple tests. Some look at the most recent, some look at highest, some look at improvement (I do not know if this infers they also look at un-improvement)...

Its tough to give advice on, but if I were in your position, I would probably spend the 23$ and send another official report. It may be for naught because many times, the department code is not even necessary, the graduate school automatically forwards the report to the appropriate department. Still, I would re-send it I were you...

Big Ups to all of the fellow applicants for being willing to share your hits and misses during the application process, it really helped me alot. Thanks also to Sig and other vets for offering the comfort and sometimes much needed corrective advice from those who have navigated these waters before...

Thanks...i think I can (and will) revise mine accordingly...

Undergrad Institution: Huge public research U, class of 1995. M.A. Program: Not as huge, or well known, public research U, Graduated last week. Honors Program: No B.A and M.A. Major(s): History B.A Minor(s): Economics GPA in B.A Major: 3.0 (my school won heismans and national champioships when I was there, and was rated #1 top party school by Playboy magazine when I was there- the 3.0 was a miracle) Overall undergrad GPA: 3.4 Position in Class: N/A M.A. GPA: 3.84 Type of Student: White male, returning/non-traditional (I'm in my late 30's). GRE Scores (revised/old version): Q: 720 (74th) and 600 (47th) V: 700 (97th) and 660 (94th) W: 4.5 (72th) and 5.0 (84th) Research Experience: M.A. Thesis Awards/Honors/Recognitions: 2 papers accepted at conferences, one published book review, won departments graduate research grant for 2011 Pertinent Activities or Jobs: Practicing attorney for a number of years. Any Other Info That Shows Up On Your App and Might Matter: Law Degree (1998) Applying to Where: Only top 25 programs with the right advisors in cities where I am willing to raise my family. Research Interests & Areas of Focus: U.S./ U.S. South/ Ante-bellum and colonial religion Languages: Spanish Letters of Recommendation: I waived, so I'll never what they say, but I expect they will be strong. My thesis advisor is a big name in his field, and he is a big fan of mine... Statement of Purpose: Tailored to each school, ID'd the POI I talked to and explained why I wanted to go there. Used my M.A. thesis to detail my ability and approach toward historical research. Writing Sample: I submitted a 25 page paper in a research seminar that later became my M.A. thesis- hope the archival sources in the bib. shine! Communication with POIs: In August, I contacted all of my POI's (20 in all, at 10-11 schools). Rec'd response from all but one. All except for 3-4 gave me reason for optimism re compatibility. Lessons Learned from Application Process: Don't know yet...I spent about 5-6 months on the actual, after laying the foundation for the previous year or so. I suppose I'll sort out the lessons I learned come February/March

I agree with Safferz...its so natural to read into the silence (most of us would react the same way), and yet so irrational (because our conclusions are not supported by any objective basis- just fears and doubts). I've already 'awfulized' half of my POI experiences, and applied to those schools anyway. As far as the issue of the tour is concerned, its safe to assume that the POI will reason that any prospective student who is saavy (sav vy?) enough to e-mail her, will know better than to angle for a personally guided tour...but it is great awfullization on your part

As many history applicants know, Michigan's history department actually suspended admissions for 2012 because an unusually high number of last year's admits actually enrolled this semester. They need a one-year moratorium to recoup the extra money they have committed to the 2011 cohort

I would suggest that even if you deny "guilt" that you accept responsibility (e.g., your friends in your car) and demonstrate how this episode is antithetical to who you are (no other run-ins with the law) and stress that you are dedicated to serious and focused study

Ok, all apps are done, submitted and paid for. I feel...absolutely sick! The application process was fun, exciting, invigorating. Now I just sit back for the next three months and think about how under-qualified I am for all these top programs I just applied to... Any company for this misery?

In other words, the 'estimate' was only given for the first two months of the revised test. At this point, precise scores on the new scale are shown immediately, like they were for the old test/old scale.

Interesting responses. This is not what I expected to hear, and Imy instincts tell me the opposite. That said, since three of you are already attending, it sounds like a good idea for me to defer to you all on this issue. So, no emails! Thanks alot for the advice!

7/8 signed, sealed, delivered and paid for- one book review to finish up to round out the batch. I had a ninth one, but think I'm cutting it off of the list for a few reasons. I think I would make a deal with the devil today: Gaurantee me admission and full funding into just one, any one, of the programs I applied to and I'll gladly take the rejections from all the rest. That said, I'd love to have to choose between Yale and Cornell...or UW-Madison and UNC-CH...