Applications 2019

[Sigaba]

36 minutes ago, TsarandProphet said:

Excuse me for my ignorance - but I looked at some admissions forms. Besides the personalization of the SOP and filling the endless forms, what else would you need to do that differentiates between 5 and 12 applications?

Budget for twice as much Imodium.

[urbanhistorynerd]

1 hour ago, TsarandProphet said:

 

Excuse me for my ignorance - but I looked at some admissions forms. Besides the personalization of the SOP and filling the endless forms, what else would you need to do that differentiates between 5 and 12 applications?

It really depends on how much time you have to spare, how much money, etc.

For my field (American metropolitan history since 1970, urban/suburban history, African American experience in suburbs since 1970 onward), the schools I'm picking have the best of the best in the field. The personalization of each SOP is very important. There is, imo, a skeleton to them all, but every sentence and paragraph should be designed to best appeal to that specific school/department/professor. I'm a rising senior and I have courses, finishing an honors thesis, a part-time job. If I tried to apply to 12 schools, most likely they'll be far less competitive as opposed to 5-6 really good and thorough ones. 

I'm also in a 4+1 year BA/MA program, so if I do not get accepted into my top schools, I'll pursue a partially funded masters degree and apply afterwards.

[psstein]

3 hours ago, urbanhistorynerd said:

I started off with applying to 12 programs, and now I've shortened it to 5. 5 really good applications is a lot better than 12 subpar or moderate ones.

I completely agree. Of the 9 programs I applied to the first time around, I was a good fit for maybe 3 or 4.

Contingent on my getting high quality letters from my current advisor and faculty, I intend on applying to 3 programs this cycle.

2 hours ago, TsarandProphet said:

 

Excuse me for my ignorance - but I looked at some admissions forms. Besides the personalization of the SOP and filling the endless forms, what else would you need to do that differentiates between 5 and 12 applications?

One of the major factors is cost. It's $27 to send GRE scores, then it ranges between $50-$75 for the application fee. Also, depending upon your field, there may not be 12 programs worth attending, in terms of outcomes/funding/etc. For my own sub-discipline, history of science, there are a few top programs (e.g. Yale) and a lot of "also rans" (Indiana HPS, Oregon State, Minnesota, etc.). It's not that you won't get good training from a second-tier department, but the job outlook is likely bleaker and institutional support far less generous.

[historygeek]

Yeah, I think that my current list is fine. They have strengths in my field, decent placement records, and faculty I think I would fit well with. I'm kind of upset that Loyola Chicago's placement record and reputation isn't better- they have a specific program in transnational urban history. 

Oh well. Thanks for the input, everyone!

[AfricanusCrowther]

23 hours ago, TsarandProphet said:

 

Excuse me for my ignorance - but I looked at some admissions forms. Besides the personalization of the SOP and filling the endless forms, what else would you need to do that differentiates between 5 and 12 applications?

Also bear in mind that some programs ask for different formats for the SoP from the standard two-pager. It can be hard to adapt your SOP to those formats -- which I found out the hard way when I was rejected from all of those schools.

[dr. t]

I'm going to take a different tack, and say that if you can find more than ~5 programs you would want to attend - having taken into consideration fit, placements, and funding - you're either in an insanely popular field or aren't being nearly as critical as you should.

[historygeek]

3 hours ago, telkanuru said:

I'm going to take a different tack, and say that if you can find more than ~5 programs you would want to attend - having taken into consideration fit, placements, and funding - you're either in an insanely popular field or aren't being nearly as critical as you should.

Yeah, I decided on 6 based on availability of housing, fit/response from POIs, and funding packages. I definitely wasn't being critical enough.

Edited August 16, 2018 by historygeek

[psstein]

6 hours ago, AfricanusCrowther said:

Also bear in mind that some programs ask for different formats for the SoP from the standard two-pager. It can be hard to adapt your SOP to those formats -- which I found out the hard way when I was rejected from all of those schools.

This is definitely an important consideration. There's not much more irritating in an application process than paring down a three page SOP to 500 words (thank you, Indiana HPS).

[AfricanusCrowther]

4 hours ago, psstein said:

This is definitely an important consideration. There's not much more irritating in an application process than paring down a three page SOP to 500 words (thank you, Indiana HPS).

Writing samples are also very annoying to adapt if you are working from a BA thesis, another hard-earned lesson. It’s good practice for turning research papers into conference presentations, but of course the stakes here are much higher. 

[Balleu]

One of my faculty mentors said that 8-10 schools should be my minimum, because of the competitiveness of the admissions process. My other faculty mentor said to try to narrow it down to ~5, because applying just to get accepted somewhere is the wrong tactic. My anxiety initially pushed me toward the former approach, but the more I've done my research (and read through this forum), the more comfortable I've become with narrowing down the list. 

 It feels a little strange to cut schools from my list where I got an enthusiastic response from a variety of faculty/grad students, but I'm framing it to myself as part of the research. I'd be doing myself a disservice (and wasting $150ish dollars) applying somewhere that's a bad fit or blindly throwing out applications for the hell of it.

I know that I'll be applying to Wisconsin, Princeton, and NYU. Yale, Cornell, and Northwestern are maybes. 

[psstein]

3 hours ago, Balleu said:

One of my faculty mentors said that 8-10 schools should be my minimum, because of the competitiveness of the admissions process. My other faculty mentor said to try to narrow it down to ~5, because applying just to get accepted somewhere is the wrong tactic. My anxiety initially pushed me toward the former approach, but the more I've done my research (and read through this forum), the more comfortable I've become with narrowing down the list.

The latter is the correct approach.

As many here (most notably @telkanuru) would say, the objective is not to get into graduate school. The objective is to have a job after graduate school. Without a doubt, there are some talented students enrolled in a history program at Arizona State. Unfortunately, few, if any, will have tenured academic positions. 

 

[Balleu]

Absolutely. Which brings us back to the points raised in Is getting a PhD worth it?.  Looking only at numbers, the odds are not in anyone's favor. Hence the (entirely warranted) insistence on taking prestige and placement record seriously. 

[historygeek]

To those already accepted: would you recommend mentioning specific archives in your SOP?

[gsc]

16 minutes ago, historygeek said:

To those already accepted: would you recommend mentioning specific archives in your SOP?

If the school is located near an archive that you could see yourself using, or holds a specific collection that’s relevant (e.g., you work on gender and sexuality and Indiana holds the papers of Kinsey Institute) you could mention that resource as something that further draws you to the school/ helps explain why it’s a good fit for you.

But I don’t think you need to identify what archives you want to use in your dissertation (e.g., you work on gender and sexuality and you already know you’re going to use the Sophia Smith archives at Smith) - reads a little like putting the cart before the horse. They want to know you have interesting, exciting ideas and have thought through them/ will be able to execute them, but the SOP is not your dissertation proposal and doesn’t need that granular level of detail, IMO. 

Edited August 17, 2018 by gsc

[historygeek]

1 hour ago, gsc said:

If the school is located near an archive that you could see yourself using, or holds a specific collection that’s relevant (e.g., you work on gender and sexuality and Indiana holds the papers of Kinsey Institute) you could mention that resource as something that further draws you to the school/ helps explain why it’s a good fit for you.

But I don’t think you need to identify what archives you want to use in your dissertation (e.g., you work on gender and sexuality and you already know you’re going to use the Sophia Smith archives at Smith) - reads a little like putting the cart before the horse. They want to know you have interesting, exciting ideas and have thought through them/ will be able to execute them, but the SOP is not your dissertation proposal and doesn’t need that granular level of detail, IMO. 

Got it. My work is in ethnic history, so I mentioned some ethnic archives in New York, and since I have interest in fashion, I mentioned fashion archives. Now I’m wondering if I shouldn’t have.

[Sigaba]

3 hours ago, gsc said:

reads a little like putting the cart before the horse. 

On the other hand. if one is going to pick a graduate program with one long term objective in the forefront, why not two?

6 hours ago, psstein said:

The objective is to have a job after graduate school.

FWIW, my recommendation is to find a balance between  conveying a clear understanding of relevant primary resources, especially those close by, without necessarily committing to a dissertation topic. Qualifying words/phrases can achieve this objective efficiently. In my mind's eye, this task very similar to explaining how one's research interests align with parties of interest in a department without mentioning a single name.

YMMV.

[TMP]

15 hours ago, Sigaba said:

On the other hand. if one is going to pick a graduate program with one long term objective in the forefront, why not two?

FWIW, my recommendation is to find a balance between  conveying a clear understanding of relevant primary resources, especially those close by, without necessarily committing to a dissertation topic. Qualifying words/phrases can achieve this objective efficiently. In my mind's eye, this task very similar to explaining how one's research interests align with parties of interest in a department without mentioning a single name.

YMMV.

I've done that for NYU, Stanford and University of Maryland and still got rejected  Perhaps I should have devoted more space to my questions and ideas and the specifics of the school/department offerings... ?

[Sigaba]

2 minutes ago, TMP said:

Stanford ... rejected  

I am still #NOTBITTER about The Farm saying no.

FWIW, on a SOP that worked well for me, I laid out a road map of how I envisioned my career at the time (this is when I actually thought I'd ever get a job in the Ivory Tower--still #NOTBITTER about that too). Understanding that a history department had Americanists who'd produced important works on specific presidents, I indicated I wanted to produce works on different presidents of the same era (post World War II) from the same perspective (impact of domestic politics on foreign policy decisions).

[Balleu]

For those who have applied/will apply to Yale: did you write your book review on a book written by a Yale professor? 

 

[OHSP]

On 8/18/2018 at 2:53 PM, TMP said:

I've done that for NYU, Stanford and University of Maryland and still got rejected  Perhaps I should have devoted more space to my questions and ideas and the specifics of the school/department offerings... ?

I can only speak for nyu but it’s definitely the case that the admissions committee (and esp. the current dgs) is more concerned w quality of ideas and questions than with details about the archives you might go to etc etc. I wouldn’t waste a single moment explaining why it’ll be great for your research to be in nyc, that’s really a pretty minor detail about the department. If you’re interdisciplinary, stress it. Same goes for working across regions or diasporas. I know all adcoms deal with a bunch of applications some of which are immediately recognizable as a poor fit for the school, but just know and keep in mind that schools like CUNY, Columbia, and NYU receive quite a few applications from people who “would just find it interesting to live in nyc” [this is a complaint I have heard from a professor]. Show that you know the school and it’s strengths. **note that this is obviously not directed at TMP but following on from their suggestion

Edited August 19, 2018 by OHSP

[TMP]

@OHSP I agree with your take and would say the same for other "big city" schools, particularly that one can receive research/summer funds to conduct research later on.  It's quite challenging to conduct archival research during a very busy semester of coursework (and TAing if applicable).  When I applied to NYU, the only thing that did not excited me about the school was having to live in/near NYC!  (At the time, I wasn't fond of NYC but now I'm more warm to it after several months of living there for research.) 

[OHSP]

@TMP I almost didn't apply because I didn't want to live in NYC, and when I got in I wrote it off entirely--the visit weekend totally changed my mind but until then I was like NOPE. And living in the city can be hard, so, I wasn't totally wrong to be wary. 

[Tigla]

20 hours ago, Balleu said:

For those who have applied/will apply to Yale: did you write your book review on a book written by a Yale professor? 

 

Yes. I will be writing mine on one of the newest books in my desired field, which so happens to be written by a Yale professor and possible advisor.

[Sigaba]

20 hours ago, Balleu said:

For those who have applied/will apply to Yale: did you write your book review on a book written by a Yale professor? 

 

What ever you do, do not write a review on a work of "traditional," narrative, top down history. Or so I've heard. (#NOTBITTER)

1 minute ago, Tigla said:

Yes. I will be writing mine on one of the newest books in my desired field, which so happens to be written by a Yale professor and possible advisor.

I would strongly urge you to reconsider this choice. All things being equal, there's an opportunity for it to come across as being obsequious, and/or of getting it "wrong," and/or of antagonizing other members of the department who have their own objectives and preferences. Instead, please consider writing a review on the same topic (or same trajectory of historiography) so you can indicate that you know your stuff. 

$0.02 from someone who didn't get into Happyland University for "political" reasons. (I was told it was politics, my own thought is that my application and book review just weren't good enough.)

 

Edited August 20, 2018 by Sigaba

[Tigla]

9 minutes ago, Sigaba said:

I would strongly urge you to reconsider this choice. All things being equal, there's an opportunity for it to come across as being obsequious, and/or of getting it "wrong," and/or of antagonizing other members of the department who have their own objectives and preferences. Instead, please consider writing a review on the same topic (or same trajectory of historiography) so you can indicate that you know your stuff. 

$0.02 from someone who didn't get into Happyland University for "political" reasons. (I was told it was politics, my own thought is that my application and book review just weren't good enough.)

 

 

And this is why this forum is amazing! I hate this political mess we call academia with a passion.