applying during senior year of undergrad - bad idea?

[grace2137]

Hi guys! Have been passively reading through this forum for the past year or so, but finally decided to post something. I was curious about if anyone has advice from personal experience about applying to PhD programs during the application during the fall of their senior year of undergrad, as this is currently my plan. I've had grad school on my radar since sophomore year, and have tried to think early about everything (taking courses that will help narrow my research interests, trying to line up recommenders, just took the GRE subject test, etc.)

I've gotten conflicting advice from different professors at my undergrad school about it. The professors I trust the most who have gotten to know me more closely have been supportive, but most people's immediate reaction is "take a year off at least to work on your applications!" or "try to do fullbright/rhodes!" or "try working a normal job first!". But obviously, I think it's a really personal decision, and everyone generally bases their advice off of what they did.

For me personally, there are a lot of practical/logistical/financial reasons why going straight through and not having scramble to work a survival job to support myself in a year off between undergrad and PhD (or spending senior year on the job hunt lying to hiring managers about my longterm career aspirations, lol) is more ideal, and I think I'd rather go through the process while having my usual support system/the normalcy of life at school than while in a post-grad slump, which is why I think I should at least give it a shot (especially because it's not at all uncommon to have to apply a few times before getting a spot anyway!) but I guess... Did anyone in hindsight feel like it was just too much?  Does it ever work out for people who apply during senior year, or is it just too difficult to be a competitive candidate? 

Any thoughts/comments appreciated! 

[caliguy]

hey! i applied during my senior year (this cycle) for financial/personal reasons and while it is A Lot, i think it's worth it if you have profs who know you saying that you've got a shot and you're pretty sure it's what you want to do. you might be slightly less competitive because you're younger/didn't take a year off/whatever, but grad school is pretty much a crapshoot anyway, so what really matters is that your application materials are strong enough to speak to your abilities and your passion. i had to rush to finish my senior seminar paper early so that i could use it as a writing sample and, though it could be tighter, i got into two MA programs and am waitlisted for two phd. even if you don't get in anywhere, you still learn a ton just going through the process that would help you the next time around, hypothetically

basically, it seems like you've done your homework and applying is what you wanna do. idk you, obv, but i say go for it

[Musmatatus]

I met a decent number of people who were finishing up their senior year during visits. They had gotten into some two or more top 10 programs. I would say they seemed like the minority (with more people on a gap year, or having worked for a few years, or in MA programs), but I definitely don’t think it’s impossible. 

For me, taking a gap year to gain some work experience has been really great. I have enjoyed my experience being out of school for the first time(!) and how my life could be like with a normal office job—on the other hand, it’s been really dull at times, and reinforced how much I want to be back in school. I think there are pros and cons to both decisions, but if you are prepared (and you mentioned taking the subject test) then it sounds like it’s worth a shot

[writeshere]

Hi! I also applied during senior year (current undergrad senior) and will attend during the fall. In all honesty, I applied because I felt as if I was in the mental headspace for it --at least in terms of what I want to research, my guiding research questions, and writing sample. I started preparing my application well in advance during early 2018. Like you, I decided I wanted to go to graduate school relatively early in my undergraduate career, so I didn't think twice about it by the time I was eligible to apply. As someone who applied to nine schools this cycle while in undergrad, I can say it was incredibly difficult and emotionally taxing to manage alongside a full-time course load and a pretty time-consuming internship/research assistantship, so that's a serious downside. It's stressful. It takes a ridiculous amount of time and strategic planning. And I won't lie: it's a lot, so try to start the process as early as you can around the summer/fall (i.e., asking professors for rec letters, fee waiver requests, drafting/finalizing CV/resume, grants/fellowships, etc.).

That said, I think it can both ways. Do you have a set specialization? Do you have set research ideas/questions? Do you have a general outline of what line of inquiry you want to pursue as a graduate student? Obviously, your interests might change (even marginally by the time you apply in the fall like myself), but if you already have a strong idea of where you're going in terms of interests, then I would consider applying.  Even if my research interests were somewhat different over a year ago, enrolling in independent studies helped situate my research interests by the time fall came around. It sounds like you're definitely leaning on applying while in undergrad anyways, so personally, I would say: do it! But more importantly, you know yourself better, and if you think you would benefit most from a gap year, then this is a great option, too. Everyone's different. There are pros and cons either way you go. If you have the money, time, resources, support, and you're strongly leaning on applying, then it won't hurt to send out applications. 

As someone who attended multiple school visits, I soon realized students who apply straight out of undergrad are more uncommon than I initially thought. It seems like most people tend to take at least one year off before pursuing graduate study; at one institution, I think I was the only one accepted straight out of undergrad, too. Also, should you get into multiple schools, you'll have to juggle visits once you get to the spring semester if you're not graduating early (this isn't something I considered at all during the application process, so I thought I should mention it). And that can be quite hectic, though professors -- especially since they likely went through the same exact thing -- generally tend to be understanding! 

Good luck!

Edited April 7, 2019 by bwriteshere

[ArcaMajora]

Welcome to Grad Cafe! I did not apply during the senior year but our undergrad timelines/inclinations looked very similar. I too was in a similar boat (I contemplated graduate school, hell, even joined this forum as early as sophomore year of undergrad). This is definitely a personal choice, and it's one of those things where there isn't really a right universal answer. From what it looks like reading, the professors that know you the best also understand and are supportive of your plans to apply during the senior year. I concur with the other posters. It's definitely not a bad idea to go straight with it if you've thought about the pros and cons for everything. It sounds like you have and you've already got the ball rolling. I'd definitely give applying now a shot, and also definitely contemplate the excellent posts (especially bwriteshere's post) written here. They've all hit on the salient points about applying from undergrad.

Gap year or not, going through this process is going to be financially and emotionally expensive, stressful, and at times hair-tearing. However, you also learn a lot during this process. Personally speaking, I learned the granularities and trajectories of where my research was heading. I feel a lot more closer now to answering the question of 'what's at stake' for my research than back in mid-2018 where I was only just starting to piece together my SoP. Regardless of what the outcome would've been, I definitely feel that I've grown as a scholar by contemplating what schools fit with my research questions and my project and trying to articulate that into a research agenda via the SoP. The key word is fit. If you feel like you can demonstrate that fit with your chosen universities applying as a senior year, then I definitely concur with the professors who you trust the most.  

As far as a gap year, there are definitely pros and cons to it. The main pro for me was time away from school and time away from sustained academic writing. I was burnt out (I'm happy to share via PM why, external and personal circumstances happened) by the time I graduated, and I just didn't feel ready to head back so quickly. I needed time and space to block academia out to get my bearings together and to find balance again. With how things panned out this cycle, I feel far more refreshed and excited to head back, even if I am kinda frightened of the re-adjustment. One con is definitely what sugilite mentioned. Being in a gap year can get really dull at times, which does exacerbate that waiting period from January-April.

However, agreeing with what sidmeier has said, graduate school and especially graduate school admissions is a crapshoot for anybody who applies. There are people that have applied both during undergrad or have taken a few years off that have been widely successful just in this cycle alone. Regardless of when, the results are going to be a variable across all contexts (from a widely successful season to being shutout). If you feel you've got your chances maximized and know that you can produce the best SoP and WS with your current support system, go full steam ahead. Pretty sure a Fall 2020 thread should be popping up once us Fall 2019ers are fully done with this cycle. Good luck with planning your graduate school applications, you're definitely doing this at the right time.

Edited April 7, 2019 by ArcaMajora

[havemybloodchild]

I applied (the first time) in my last year of undergrad. I highly recommend you do the same. Firstly, there are some schools that have application fee waivers that you won’t qualify for if you’re no longer in school. Secondly-and I know this sucks- but you may very well not get in the first go round. So that gap year, should you take one, could then turn into two or even three.  For me, being out of school is agony, so I really didn’t want to wait. Since I didn’t get good offers last year, I still had to take a year, and it’s been, frankly, miserable. I’m so excited to not go through that limbo for an additional year! Being in school still, you have fresh writing assignments you can tweak, and connections with professors and what not for letters of req as well as, hopefully, lots of feedback on your application materials. I’d say if you want to apply, just do it!

All that being said, I’m an older student with a lot of working/living experience already, so for me a gap year was really just returning to the wretched working world I escaped in undergrad. Other folks with different experiences may get a lot out of that year, and I wouldn’t want to negate that.

Good luck!!!

[dilby]

It may depend where you'd be living during your gap year(s). I've had two delightful years off, but I'm also living in Austin, where it's really easy to find a job and where many of my friends, family and mentors are located. My time away from school has allowed me to read outside of my research area while clarifying why, exactly, I want to get my PhD. But, as everyone has been saying, one can only really base their advice on their own experience.

Edited April 8, 2019 by dilby
grammar

[brontebitch]

56 minutes ago, dilby said:

It may depend where you'd be living during your gap year(s). I've had two delightful years off, but I'm also living in Austin, where it's really easy to find a job and where many of my friends, family and mentors are located. My time away from school has allowed me to read outside of my research area while clarifying why, exactly, I want to get my PhD. But, as everyone has been saying, one can only really base their advice on their own experience.

Agree! I decided not to take a gap year and apply during my senior year of undergrad because I would have likely had to spend the year off in a very rural area where my family lives and there are few job opportunities. Moving somewhere to make the year worth my while certainly would have been too expensive, but if it had been possible, I probably would have considered it. 

[Bopie5]

I'm currently one month out from graduating from my undergrad, and I applied to 7 PhD programs and 1 MA this cycle. Personally, I would suggest waiting. Trying to balance apps with schoolwork, multiple jobs, social life, and extracurricular commitments was a lot to juggle all at once. And, I think that I probably got shut out from the PhD programs because I didn't have a defined enough idea of a potential project--I didn't have the time or course space to develop that in my undergrad. 

HOWEVER, this has been one of the best learning experiences of my life, both about myself as an academic and myself as a person more generally. I don't know if I would recommend doing what I did, but if I could do it over, I would do it again. If you feel like you have a strong sense of your potential project, and if you have academic, psychoemotional, financial, and interpersonal structures available to support you in the applying season, go for it! Admissions is SUCH a crapshoot. Like everyone else has named, there are pros and cons to waiting, and there are pros and cons to applying. You can't really make a "wrong" choice. If you wanna talk more about my specific experience, feel free to message me!

[trytostay]

For me, having that full year off was crucial. I didn't feel rushed in getting my materials together, and was able to dedicate much of the fall/early winter to nothing but my application. I don't think I would've had as strong of an application if I had attempted to rush it, or if my attention was hindered by school work. Also, it was an incredibly peaceful year of self reflection. Having time away from school allowed me to reflect on what it truly was that I wanted to study, and reaffirmed to me that going back to school was the right decision. 

[gloriagilbert]

I was encouraged to take a minimum of two years off in between undergrad and a Ph.D., and I settled on one, though I was VERY tempted to apply as a senior in college. I'm now incredibly grateful for the past year and secretly think that taking even more time off could've been a good move (despite the fact that my application cycle went pretty well, and I'm grad school-bound in the fall). My two cents, for what it's worth--but I'm now a huge proponent of gap year(s) and will encourage pretty much anyone to at least consider taking one.

[jusrain]

In addition to the comments from people above, I wanted to pass on what several DGSs have mentioned to me this cycle: a year off is definitely not a year lost. In my case, I’ve had nearly 3. And I thought I would be “rusty” going back into academia, but many of the DGS I’ve spoken to have said that having some work experience is an asset, too, because you’re able to do the less interesting “job-like” parts of the PhD that you might not have the skills for in undergrad. That of course depends on your previous work experience and how you approach tasks, but having a full time job might help folks learn how to balance their workload and be more efficient. At least that’s what some profs I’ve spoken to at visits said. It certainly did help me, I think, but of course this depends entirely on your working style. 

[NoodleKidoodle]

It's not just about the applying. It's also about the doing. Are you prepared for seven (or more) years of education after finishing this stressful senior year? When you land in grad school three months after finishing undergrad school, will you be ready for a marathon almost twice as long as your undergraduate career with a less clearly-defined social structure and fewer institutional supports? Do the schools you're applying to offer deferments in case you want to take the break?

I took a few years off and I think it's the best decision I ever made. I really highly recommend going out in the world and working a little... I don't know your life experience, but if you haven't held down a full-time job, I think it's an important thing to try before you commit to being a professional student. It really changed my perspective on time management, labor, problem-solving, teaching, basically everything. I think I'm a much better grad student for it.

Edited April 10, 2019 by NoodleKidoodle

[CatBowl]

Just here to echo what @NoodleKidoodle and others have said about the benefits of taking some time off. I graduated with my BA, took a year off, got my MA, took nearly 3 years off, and now here I am – I'll be starting my PhD in the fall. While I am not thrilled about the fact that I'll be 6+ years older when I'm on the job market, I think my time off was invaluable. Teaching full-time reaffirmed my desire to continue teaching. Also, I'm sorry if this has already been said in this thread, but I have been able to save money to prepare for taking a huge pay cut in grad school. This is also invaluable in my opinion. Hope this perspective is helpful! 

[KittyPlaut]

I ended up taking the gap year (I wasn't where I had to be academically during my senior year) and a lot of the worries you have about finding a job in the meantime ring true. I'm not sure how much you've done throughout undergrad that might make starting a career feasible, but it's pretty tough to search for jobs and work on applications, not to mention searching for jobs and, as you said, lying about a professional trajectory that you don't intend to follow-through on.

I would definitely speak with your advisors to see what they think about applying this Fall. It would likely involve a lot of work over the summer, but imo it's absolutely worth it if you know you want to go on to grad school and know what your areas of interest would be.

[BarrissOffee]

Hello! I'm finishing up my undergrad and ended up applying this semester. Unfortunately, my timeline was not planned out so well, so I ended up taking my general GREs in July and squeezed in my subject test in September. I wrote my personal statement over winter break in addition to working one of my jobs and doing another project - it was incredibly stressful. Despite the time crunch, I don't regret applying this year, and I was lucky enough to get into two of the programs I applied to. I would not have been able to take a gap year for a variety of reasons, but financial reasons were the most pressing. If I hadn't been accepted to programs this year, my plan was to switch gears and find a corporate job, with the possibility of revisiting the idea of grad school later on down the road.

Throughout my time as an undergrad, I have worked a variety of jobs, one of which was in the industry my English major has prepared me for. While the job was great experience, I learned pretty soon into it that the industry was not for me. That being said, over my three years there, I was able to pick up a lot about how the corporate world works, along with other essential skills for surviving in business. As a side note, I was home-schooled throughout high school, so I haven't really felt the "burn out" that I've heard many students talk about - but I could imagine that being in a traditional school for almost two decades would make one feel the need to take a break before jumping into another 6-8 years of study.

Overall, I definitely see the benefits of a gap year. I'm very happy that I applied during senior year, despite how incredibly stressful it has been. However, taking a gap year would probably help mitigate some of the stress you'll already be feeling during senior year. I would strongly suggest considering the stress and anxiety that's caused by applying while you're in undergrad, because it can take a major toll on your health.

I know that my experience is anecdotal, but I hope that hearing a variety of experiences helps you make the decision that's best for you.

[grace2137]

A bit late to the party, but giving my sincerest thanks for all of your thoughtful replies!! Reading your perspectives/paths was super helpful and informative for me. I've decided to press on with applying, despite some of the advantages of taking a year or so off. I'm not so naive to think that it won't be crazy, but I'm fortunate to have the support/resources I need at school, and the ability to minimize a lot of other commitments to make applying feasible. 

On 4/10/2019 at 11:20 AM, BarrissOffee said:

Throughout my time as an undergrad, I have worked a variety of jobs, one of which was in the industry my English major has prepared me for. While the job was great experience, I learned pretty soon into it that the industry was not for me. That being said, over my three years there, I was able to pick up a lot about how the corporate world works, along with other essential skills for surviving in business. As a side note, I was home-schooled throughout high school, so I haven't really felt the "burn out" that I've heard many students talk about - but I could imagine that being in a traditional school for almost two decades would make one feel the need to take a break before jumping into another 6-8 years of study.

 

On 4/10/2019 at 10:39 AM, NoodleKidoodle said:

I took a few years off and I think it's the best decision I ever made. I really highly recommend going out in the world and working a little... I don't know your life experience, but if you haven't held down a full-time job, I think it's an important thing to try before you commit to being a professional student. It really changed my perspective on time management, labor, problem-solving, teaching, basically everything. I think I'm a much better grad student for it.

 

On 4/10/2019 at 9:26 AM, swarthmawr said:

In addition to the comments from people above, I wanted to pass on what several DGSs have mentioned to me this cycle: a year off is definitely not a year lost. In my case, I’ve had nearly 3. And I thought I would be “rusty” going back into academia, but many of the DGS I’ve spoken to have said that having some work experience is an asset, too, because you’re able to do the less interesting “job-like” parts of the PhD that you might not have the skills for in undergrad. That of course depends on your previous work experience and how you approach tasks, but having a full time job might help folks learn how to balance their workload and be more efficient. At least that’s what some profs I’ve spoken to at visits said. It certainly did help me, I think, but of course this depends entirely on your working style. 

I especially appreciated these responses in re: work/ life experience... I hadn't really considered that I'm perhaps coming at this pretty differently than most my age! I left home at 18 to move to NYC for school, and there's a big pressure to be interning and getting corporate job experience at my undergrad institution. So, I've tried it, I've been doing it over the summers/all semesters to support myself as a low income student while in school, and it's really not for me! Some of my experiences have been okay, and I think the corporate working world does have its appeal in some ways (stability and money, mostly) and I know I wouldn't die if I had to return to it, but it's not ultimately where I want to be.

Having done the whole working full time hustling at corporate and survival jobs simultaneously to afford to pay rent and living expenses in New York City makes me a bit less green about "adulting" and what I want for my future than some others might be. And is good preparation for the responsibility and work the PhD entails. I actually do have the experience to trust myself in knowing what I want, and that's important to remember!

On 4/7/2019 at 8:41 PM, kendalldinniene said:

I applied (the first time) in my last year of undergrad. I highly recommend you do the same. Firstly, there are some schools that have application fee waivers that you won’t qualify for if you’re no longer in school. Secondly-and I know this sucks- but you may very well not get in the first go round. So that gap year, should you take one, could then turn into two or even three.  For me, being out of school is agony, so I really didn’t want to wait. Since I didn’t get good offers last year, I still had to take a year, and it’s been, frankly, miserable. I’m so excited to not go through that limbo for an additional year! Being in school still, you have fresh writing assignments you can tweak, and connections with professors and what not for letters of req as well as, hopefully, lots of feedback on your application materials. I’d say if you want to apply, just do it!

All that being said, I’m an older student with a lot of working/living experience already, so for me a gap year was really just returning to the wretched working world I escaped in undergrad. Other folks with different experiences may get a lot out of that year, and I wouldn’t want to negate that.

I related to so much of this! I think you're right about having so many easily accessible resources helping with materials while in school. Being able to just drop by a professor's office and ask a quick question is so valuable! I have so many great mentors in my corner, and I should take full advantage of that.

(Also, I hadn't thought about the fee waiver thing and not being able to qualify while out of school, but that's definitely an important thing to consider and I really appreciate you pointing it out. I'm a student pretty heavily dependent on financial aid for undergrad, so trying to get fee waivers for applications wherever I can is essential!)

[mansing]

I'm a graduating senior this year, and I applied in the fall, and I'm starting my phd next fall. I don't regret applying. It was a lot of work for sure. But I've worked 8-5 jobs already and I know that's not for me. I got a lot of conflicting advice too. One of my potential grad school advisors actually categorically rejected my application because she doesn't accept anyone straight out of undergrad to her lab. I also had professors recommend I work or pursue a Masters first (and I did apply to masters programs, and I got into one). But I think I did the right thing for me. I also kept up with the job search, just in case I didn't get in. So you kind of have to do both.

[booooom]

My take is that if you know this is what you want to do, do it!! I have known that I wanted to go for a phd in the humanities since my first year of college, and I spent my whole college career working towards that goal, so when senior year came, I did it. It was a lot, but grad school application is a lot regardless. I am glad that I did it, though.

I got into more than half of the schools that I applied for and have committed to one of my top choices. I don't think applying as a current undergrad hurt your chances, as long as you can demonstrate that you are passionate, prepared and committed (which i mean it's the case for everyone). 

[Sigaba]

Drifting out of my lane to share an experience that may be helpful.

After my junior year, I participated in a program that was run by graduate students for aspiring graduate students. In addition to getting experience working as a research assistant in my field, I was exposed to a lot of "chalk talk." 

One of the primary takeaways from a friendly but heated debate over when to apply to graduate school was that the sensibility quoted below could work against graduate students.

 

 

 

On 4/27/2019 at 12:59 PM, grace2137 said:

I actually do have the experience to trust myself in knowing what I want, and that's important to remember!

This is to say that the dynamics of the workplace can teach a type of self-reliance and self-confidence that are detrimental in the Ivory Tower. The graduate students who shared this information indicated that they had some re-adjustment issues to the hoop jumping of academia. Later, a classmate who had a law degree was repeatedly frustrated that he could not satisfy outside requirements with the course work he did to earn his sheepskin. 

I got to see the other side of the coin when another classmate with extensive work experience could not understand the difference between activity and achievement. He insisted on getting his doctorate in the shortest time possible. His confidence in his experience, his trust in himself did get him done, but he also got PNGed by the department. That is, no one would stand up for him when he was looking for a job or a publisher. 

Ultimately, one has to decide for oneself if the detriment is the product of the "politics and bullshit" of academics. (IMO, there's more to it than that. YMMV.)

The second takeaway was that a one year interlude can easily become a decade, a long term romantic relationship, and parenthood and the necessary trade-offs, compromises, and changed opportunities that follow.

The third takeaway was that making the adjustment back to student life could be a much more difficult challenge than one initially thought. It's one thing to eat PB&Js because one is on the go, and another because that's all one can afford until next month.

(An alternative is to have a "five year plan" that sees one extending one's time as an undergraduate, writing a second/honor's thesis, loading up on relevant upper division classes, maybe working on a language requirement, managing one's GPA, and working a job that will extend through the summer until a week or two before one leaves for graduate school. Or so I've heard.)