HKS Waitlist 2020

[keurimja]

5 hours ago, Mppirgradschool said:

I got it from an internal document shared by peer schools that highlighted the application number and offers given at each institution.

I suspect then that the 30% figure includes the Mid-Career MPA program, which has an individual acceptance rate of approximately 50%. 219 of the 569 members of the HKS class of 2019 were MC-MPA grads, which, when you crunch out the arithmetic, yields an approximate average 17.5% acceptance rate across the two-year masters programs (MPP, MPA, and MPA/ID). This would make sense in the context of the 20% HKS MPP acceptance rate reported 10 years ago, indicating incremental increases in selectivity over the past decade.

5 hours ago, Mppirgradschool said:

Agree with what you say about the MBA process being very holistic (outside of the 2+2 programs), but I should note that it is becoming less true for elite policy schools that are increasing their intake of students with 2> years of experience. WWS is the exception to this, though.

You seem to be very knowledgeable regarding trends in graduate policy/IR education. I wonder if the trend you're observing is indicative of a simultaneous increase in impressive resumes and accomplishments from recent grads, via increases in substantive research assistantships and prestigious internships undertaken by undergraduates. Just a thought. If so, then the trend exhibited may not simply indicate a decline in holistic admissions.

5 hours ago, Mppirgradschool said:

About 1/3 of HKS students are dual degrees so it would be interesting to know how much that informs the median private sector salary and how many non-dual degree MPPs end up at MBB.

Is the rate of dual-degree participation at other top policy schools like Harris significantly lower? I assumed they would be relatively consistent, especially at schools that also have top-ranked business and law schools like Harvard, UChicago, Yale, Columbia, Berkeley, etc.

[keurimja]

6 hours ago, GradSchoolGrad said:

2. Harris doesn't help its income since they have higher percentages of international students than HKS MPP

What percentage of Harris students are international? I wonder how much of the face-value differential in income this element offsets (~50k for the private sector) in addition to the other factors you listed. I'd like to see further breakdowns of the data by distinctions such as international/domestic, regions within the U.S., etc.

6 hours ago, GradSchoolGrad said:

From a pure career outcomes perspective, yes HKS MPP has a marginally greater range of options, but by in large, nearly none of those opportunities are closed off to Harris people. Harris also uniquely has MBB recruiting for an MPP program as a core school (HKS and Harris are the only ones I hear about that have it).

Agreed, definitely. None of the opportunities are closed off per se. However, having spoken to alumni at the various policy programs I've looked into, HKS has by far the best placement into MBB and the other big-name consulting firms in general. I wasn't aware that Harris had a recruiting pipeline for MBB (the one consulting-oriented Harris student I know didn't tell me about it), but that's cool to know!

I appreciate the insight and the discussion @Mppirgradschool and @GradSchoolGrad.

Edited May 4, 2020 by keurimja

[GradSchoolGrad]

3 hours ago, keurimja said:

What percentage of Harris students are international? I wonder how much of the face-value differential in income this element offsets (~50k for the private sector) in addition to the other factors you listed. I'd like to see further breakdowns of the data by distinctions such as international/domestic, regions within the U.S., etc.

Agreed, definitely. None of the opportunities are closed off per se. However, having spoken to alumni at the various policy programs I've looked into, HKS has by far the best placement into MBB and the other big-name consulting firms in general. I wasn't aware that Harris had a recruiting pipeline for MBB (the one consulting-oriented Harris student I know didn't tell me about it), but that's cool to know!

I appreciate the insight and the discussion @Mppirgradschool and @GradSchoolGrad.

1. My understanding (granted it changes here and there), Harris MPP has been as high as 50% international before. 

2. Again, I think the private sector bounce is due to the number of those from HKS that want to go to MBB. There is simply a large cohort of those who matriculate to MBB. I am not going to deny that. When you say best placement, if you are talking about in terms of raw numbers going to MBB --> you are very much correct. However, the funnel (AKA: those people who get an offer vs. those who are interested) is according to my understanding worse than at HBS. Having had a family member that went to HKS, I will also add that there also tends to be some exceptionally well connected students (children of world leaders , billionares, and etc.) that you will find present in HKS who go there to get a degree and move on to exceptional job opportunities that aren't normal. You will hardly get that at Harris.

Yes it would be great if a program opened the books and let us check out its data... but realistically no school will, and until that happens, we'll have to play Sherlock and put the pieces together. 

Extra Note* - I think the true value of HKS (besides the brand/alumni base) is the unique student experience. It is a very professionally cultured school and you are surrounded by professors, other grad students, and even undergrads (yes you do come in contact with them on occasion) that can be considered all types of interesting and ambitious. 

You do get that Harris, WWS, or any other top policy program... but not to the same scale (and I mean the whole University). I don't recommend anyone pay 60K extra for that experience, but it is something rather unique about HKS. 

P.S. When people bring up MPP alumnus, I get this tingle, because MPP marketplace has undergone rapid transformation over the past decade. People who graduated in the 2010 and I already have a hard time swapping stories, because the programming and competitive landscape has decently shifted. The job potential have also drastically shifted as well. I say this in general and not specifically applicable to HKS.

Edited May 4, 2020 by GradSchoolGrad

[Mppirgradschool]

6 hours ago, keurimja said:

I suspect then that the 30% figure includes the Mid-Career MPA program, which has an individual acceptance rate of approximately 50%. 219 of the 569 members of the HKS class of 2019 were MC-MPA grads, which, when you crunch out the arithmetic, yields an approximate average 17.5% acceptance rate across the two-year masters programs (MPP, MPA, and MPA/ID). This would make sense in the context of the 20% HKS MPP acceptance rate reported 10 years ago, indicating incremental increases in selectivity over the past decade.

The figures were explicitly for the MPP. Any year immediately after 2008 would see a decrease in acceptance rate due to the "Obama Effect", and the MPP classes were capped at around 200. This number has now increased to 240, not sure if this is to correct for demand or the fact they need $ due to rising operational costs.

6 hours ago, keurimja said:

You seem to be very knowledgeable regarding trends in graduate policy/IR education. I wonder if the trend you're observing is indicative of a simultaneous increase in impressive resumes and accomplishments from recent grads, via increases in substantive research assistantships and prestigious internships undertaken by undergraduates. Just a thought. If so, then the trend exhibited may not simply indicate a decline in holistic admissions.

I think brick and mortar + operational costs have increased substantially in the past few years. The new HKS building and the Keller Center at Harris are examples of it.

Guessing they need people paying full sticker to cover their expenses and folks with less experience check that box.

6 hours ago, keurimja said:

Is the rate of dual-degree participation at other top policy schools like Harris significantly lower? I assumed they would be relatively consistent, especially at schools that also have top-ranked business and law schools like Harvard, UChicago, Yale, Columbia, Berkeley, etc.

HKS partners with dozens of law, business and med schools from across the country when offering its concurrent degrees. Some them actually apply as 2L or after their first year of B-School. SIPA and Harris only offer dual degrees with the law and b-schools of their own institution, fewer chances to mix and match. Columbia Law School actually offers a concurrent degree with HKS, but SIPA doesn't offer with HLS.

[GradSchoolGrad]

40 minutes ago, Mppirgradschool said:

HKS partners with dozens of law, business and med schools from across the country when offering its concurrent degrees. Some them actually apply as 2L or after their first year of B-School. SIPA and Harris only offer dual degrees with the law and b-schools of their own institution, fewer chances to mix and match. Columbia Law School actually offers a concurrent degree with HKS, but SIPA doesn't offer with HLS.

So this is a very interesting factor about HKS (and it is not alone granted it is the most prolific) that is actually a mixed bag in my opinion.

The Pros:

1. For those who want to dual degree with HKS and don't want to depend on getting into a Harvard counterpart graduate program as to their dual degree status, want a program not in Harvard, or for personal reasons need to mix locations --> this is an option that gives people flexibility.

2. You do bring in some additional smart people with good backgrounds into HKS, likely boosting the student quality.

The Cons: 

I think it is important between identify the difference between mixing and matching + meaningful interaction as part of a greater community. Yes, there is more mix and match occasions. However, by in large, the dual degrees are just people who are known as dual degrees who will either:

A: Disappear after 1 year at HKS --> relationships get curtailed

B: Have to float to their other program later in the week / during the day for classes --> meaningful relationships are more difficult to come by

And altogether, dual degrees have a harder time being part of the HKS community as they straddle both worlds (my former boss had the same dual degree as me, but he did HBS/HKS and we talked about this at length). 

Bottom line:

You can say, it is better than the general HKS population gets something better than nothing. However, dual degrees are in some ways a disruptive population just by virtue of their regular movements back and forth. Also, for the dual degree themselves, its a lot of stress and pain to have to make priorities everyday between options from two (or sometimes more) places --> classes, friends, extracurricular, career, and etc. Basically, somebody is going to get less attention than you want. 

[Bdaly96]

I got accepted today after initially being declined and then put on the waitlist. Good luck to all

[philzcoffee]

i was accepted off the originally rejected waitlist as well. what a bizarre and surreal situation lol.. 

[CrystalDolphin]

Got accepted too!!!!

[justaname]

Congrats to y'all! Got accepted too. Early waiting for financial aid info because it says on the acceptance letter than we will "hear from financial aid counselor".

I really would like to know how big of a gap they need to fill, as they are admitting so many second batch of waitlisted applicants.

[PP2020]

Did you guys get an email saying your status had changed? 

Edited May 5, 2020 by PP2020

[justaname]

6 minutes ago, PP2020 said:

Did you guys get an email saying your status had changed? 

yes i received an email saying i've got a status change

[PP2020]

Just now, justaname said:

yes i received an email saying i've got a status change

Looks like it’s getting rejected 2x for me ?. I haven’t received any emails after being put on the waitlist

Edited May 5, 2020 by PP2020

[Bdaly96]

In my Email from the finance director, it said that all scholarship and fellowship money has been awarded already

[philzcoffee]

8 minutes ago, Bdaly96 said:

In my Email from the finance director, it said that all scholarship and fellowship money has been awarded already

mine as well.. bit of a bummer but not unexpected 

Edited May 5, 2020 by philzcoffee

[justaname]

38 minutes ago, PP2020 said:

Looks like it’s getting rejected 2x for me ?. I haven’t received any emails after being put on the waitlist

Don’t lose hope! I’m gonna withdraw since they didn’t offer me any aid money. Maybe that’ll open a spot for you.

[Mppirgradschool]

Kind of surprised they waited until after the deposit deadline at other programs to give you guys an answer, as it makes zero sense to break your deposit AND have to pay full sticker. Then again, it's as crazy as paying full tuition (this year especially), given the insane level of debt (minimum $220,000 when you compute interests), funded offers elsewhere, how uncertain the job market will be in 2022 and the real possibility of online courses in the fall.

[Boolakanaka]

I would say it’s telling from an institutional basis they are pulling in former applicants that were declined, and then placed into waitlist status, and then ultimately accepted, but with no FA. Sort of obvious, people are either declining and/or deferring for the upcoming academic year, and that the institution is trying to cover bills.

[CrystalDolphin]

Haven't received any updates from my financial counselor? But no funding for sure.

[Mppirgradschool]

1 hour ago, Boolakanaka said:

I would say it’s telling from an institutional basis they are pulling in former applicants that were declined, and then placed into waitlist status, and then ultimately accepted, but with no FA. Sort of obvious, people are either declining and/or deferring for the upcoming academic year, and that the institution is trying to cover bills.

The fact that classes will probably be online also diminishes enrollment in Executive Education courses. People pay around $12,000 to attend a 3-4 day course on campus, and is a huge income stream for HKS.

[Mppirgradschool]

31 minutes ago, CrystalDolphin said:

Haven't received any updates from my financial counselor? But no funding for sure.

HKS is a very stingy school and is probably running a considerable deficit. HBS is actually facing a $22 million shortfall this year. 

I'm guessing all these zero-funding offers are coupled with a very strict no-deferral policy. Unfortunately, many schools solely view admits as a revenue stream and are hoping that some of you bite and make the mistake of paying full tuition, to then be greeted by a terrible job economy in 2022, where many policy grads will be vying for entry level gigs.

Edited May 5, 2020 by Mppirgradschool

[Boolakanaka]

1 hour ago, Mppirgradschool said:

The fact that classes will probably be online also diminishes enrollment in Executive Education courses. People pay around $12,000 to attend a 3-4 day course on campus, and is a huge income stream for HKS.

Yup. I had two two folks that work for me that were going to do an executive training,  one at Stanford and the other at Yale, both were intensive 7-8 day course, at roughly 10k plus. Despite the pleas of the schools to still enroll my staff (albeit at a slight discount) I’m passing....

[iessat]

Hello everyone. Did you receive the email today from Matt, asking whether you wanted to remain on the waiting list? If so where are you from and what did you decide to do?

[Boolakanaka]

On 5/5/2020 at 1:55 PM, Mppirgradschool said:

The fact that classes will probably be online also diminishes enrollment in Executive Education courses. People pay around $12,000 to attend a 3-4 day course on campus, and is a huge income stream for HKS.

Sort of a revenue stream, but moreover it’s how many professors pad their salary. In fact, many have certain assurances that they will being instructors for executive education, with a fairly typical compensation of 5-10k, per day. I’ve seen arrangements where faculty were guaranteed 10-15 of these gigs annually.

[sal_ali]

Hey guys,

As an incoming MPP student at HKS, I got deferred to 2022. I am trying to start in 2021If anyone is interested in swapping places with me. 

[2711383]

Hey guys. Was anyone here admitted to the MPA/ID? If so, would you mind sharing your profile with me through a PM? I'm considering applying for next year.