2022 Creative Writing MFA Applicants Forum

[Ogilvie]

2 hours ago, fireflystasis said:

Possibly the most pathetic thing is how obsessed they've gotten with some of the regulars here, to the point of actually tracking their notification statuses. Who does this? Who admits to it? How embarrassing. If you want senpai to notice you, this is not the way. 

As much as I dislike Cindee/ Artel's personal attacks, your comment is even worse. Shame-y, patriarchal. Telling someone they're pathetic/ embarrassing (to cause shame/ embarrassment).

"Who does this?" is the sound a snob makes.

This forum is garbage. The people who cultivate "likes" and "upvotes" are no less toxic than the overt troll.

Gonna read some books now, instead of subjecting my brain to the comments in this forum.

[fireflystasis]

Love to cause shame. Love to inspire embarrassment. Some people are bullied too much as children; others, not bullied enough as adults. Especially people who make alts just to cultivate bizarre onanistic relationships with their other alts. Some activities are just indecent outside the bedroom and should be treated as such!

Edited February 23, 2022 by fireflystasis

[MDP]

Does anyone else ever have the perverse urge to write stupid CVS paperbacks under a penname to make money? Like, those harlequin romance ones that they sell for five bucks in the greeting card aisle

Edited February 23, 2022 by MDP
word

[CHRISTOPHER QUANG BUI]

12 minutes ago, MDP said:

Does anyone else ever have the perverse urge to write stupid CVS paperbacks under a penname to make money? Like, those harlequin romance ones that they sell for five bucks in the greeting card aisle

The urge is there all the time within me. Sometimes much too manifestly present. 

[MDP]

21 minutes ago, CHRISTOPHER QUANG BUI said:

The urge is there all the time within me. Sometimes much too manifestly present. 

Same lol. Need to write a trashy money-grab beach read just for shits...

[Ydrl]

I have the student discount on the romance writers of America but I haven't joined, considering it though. Sometimes I have the urge to do writing that makes money.

Update: I joined. Let's get this bread.

Edited February 23, 2022 by Ydrl

[MDP]

4 minutes ago, Ydrl said:

I have the student discount on the romance writers of America but I haven't joined, considering it though. Sometimes I have the urge to do writing that makes money.

Update: I joined. Let's get this bread.

Hell yeah! What is that -- a database? 

[Ydrl]

7 minutes ago, MDP said:

Hell yeah! What is that -- a database? 

It's an association that gives you access to a lot of resources for romance novel writing. I was debating for awhile but the universe (you guys) brought it up so that feels like a sign to write trashy romance novels.

[koechophe]

I'm probably the actual worst person to write smutty romance like... ever. 

One of the perks of being asexual, I guess *shrug. Guess I'll stick to my emotionally disturbing pieces about messed up relationships lol. 

[MDP]

Just now, Ydrl said:

It's an association that gives you access to a lot of resources for romance novel writing. I was debating for awhile but the universe (you guys) brought it up so that feels like a sign to write trashy romance novels.

Yesss! Glad something good has come out of the thread today, haha. I'm "out of reactions" for today (hate that feature on here) but I love to hear this.

[Ydrl]

3 minutes ago, koechophe said:

I'm probably the actual worst person to write smutty romance like... ever. 

One of the perks of being asexual, I guess *shrug. Guess I'll stick to my emotionally disturbing pieces about messed up relationships lol. 

To be fair, one of my friends is aromantic but not asexual and according to the class wrote "a beautiful romantic relationship between two gay characters". It wasn't a romantic relationship but people read it as that ~anyway~

[sassydragon]

I'm totally going to write some 'trashy' novels. I kind of like romance novels and sitcoms where things end nicely every time and I don't need to think too much.

Has anyone else not yet heard from FSU? Looks like they sent a lot of rejections yesterday. I still haven't heard from them and am wondering if I should contact them.

[koechophe]

34 minutes ago, Ydrl said:

To be fair, one of my friends is aromantic but not asexual and according to the class wrote "a beautiful romantic relationship between two gay characters". It wasn't a romantic relationship but people read it as that ~anyway~

Oh, I get it all the time where people are like, "These characters are so hot for each other!" in my writing. And I'm kind of like, "Really? Cool, I guess."
 

But, uh, smut is a whole different kind of monster to write lol. 

[maryak99]

hmm, could someone elaborate on exactly why we consider simple romance novels as 'trashy'? i mean, obviously, this isn't the first time i've heard this, but i was just wondering, what standards do we put in place that put romance or other genre novels in the trashy part of the spectrum and literary fiction on the other? is it the lack of complexity in the plot or characters? or the commercialism? bec i mean, making money isn't a bad thing. 

i've always been sort of confused on this end. isn't all literature just, literature? i've read things that make me very angry, very happy and very sad and i've disagreed with a lot of plotholes and twists and turns, but i don't know, i can't bring myself to ever say that something is bad? maybe it's just a me thing.

[Ydrl]

1 minute ago, maryak99 said:

hmm, could someone elaborate on exactly why we consider simple romance novels as 'trashy'? i mean, obviously, this isn't the first time i've heard this, but i was just wondering, what standards do we put in place that put romance or other genre novels in the trashy part of the spectrum and literary fiction on the other? is it the lack of complexity in the plot or characters? or the commercialism? bec i mean, making money isn't a bad thing. 

i've always been sort of confused on this end. isn't all literature just, literature? i've read things that make me very angry, very happy and very sad and i've disagreed with a lot of plotholes and twists and turns, but i don't know, i can't bring myself to ever say that something is bad? maybe it's just a me thing.

Trashy romance is another name for erotica

[maryak99]

1 minute ago, Ydrl said:

Trashy romance is another name for erotica

OH. I THOUGHT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT BOOKSHELF TYPE ROMANCE NOVELS "THIRTY WAYS TO EARN LOVE" TYPE BOOKS. oh god.

forgive me.

[Ydrl]

Just now, maryak99 said:

OH. I THOUGHT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT BOOKSHELF TYPE ROMANCE NOVELS "THIRTY WAYS TO EARN LOVE" TYPE BOOKS. oh god.

forgive me.

I'm not the kind of person to bad mouth  genres I don't typically find enjoyable. If it seriously entertains someone besides the author then that book is doing its job. I'm firmly in the camp of people can enjoy whatever books they want. Also along that vein, I write to entertain, so I respect authors who write in niches I could never write.

[maryak99]

1 minute ago, Ydrl said:

I'm not the kind of person to bad mouth  genres I don't typically find enjoyable. If it seriously entertains someone besides the author then that book is doing its job. I'm firmly in the camp of people can enjoy whatever books they want. Also along that vein, I write to entertain, so I respect authors who write in niches I could never write.

that's a good thing to have, i guess. i dont know if it's an older generation problem, but ive met a lot of established writers in my country who do go out of their way to badmouth genres and make students read 'something of substance'. and at some point, when that was the only narrative i heard, i started believing that maybe, this is what all literary fiction authors have to do or tend to at some point. and these were prize winners and scholarship holders, very accomplished in their fields.

i was just generally asking about that stereotype. i'm hopeful that us young writers hopefully won't be a part of that bunch.

[MDP]

28 minutes ago, maryak99 said:

hmm, could someone elaborate on exactly why we consider simple romance novels as 'trashy'?

For me, "trashy" is kind of a term of endearment for this genre, if that makes sense. If a book can make someone strongly feel an emotion of any kind, I count that as a successful piece of writing! This goes for things I've written that people have uniformly hated, lol. "Any publicity is good publicity" type of grindset. I'd rather my work be too cold or too hot than lukewarm, etc. -- personally like to provoke a strong reaction one way or the other  

[gagne]

Speaking of books we read, what do you all like to read?

I am a literary fiction person but also really big on memoirs, literary criticism, and queer stories. I read a lot of poetry last summer (20-30 books) so while I love it, I've been a little burned out, especially when I read a book of poetry and think "wow, so do you have no emotions??" just because it doesn't evoke anything for me.

For folks who do want at least one poetry recommendation though, go read Kat Tempest's "Hold Your Own" which is a retelling of the myth of Tiresias through poems and also about the author's own self-realization. (did my 1000 word Columbia essay on this book actually and got to re-read it for the essay)

Edited February 23, 2022 by gagne

[Rm714]

2 minutes ago, gagne said:

Speaking of books we read, what do you all like to read?

I love literary fiction and fantasy. Stories that leave me feeling hollow? Yes please!
I did my 1000 word essay on Susan Choi's Flashlight. Was the winner of the Times Short Story Award in 2020, I think. If anyone has 20-30 minutes and wants to feel many oddly unnameable emotions: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/09/07/flashlight

[MDP]

8 minutes ago, gagne said:

I've been a little burned out, especially when I read a book of poetry and think "wow, so do you have no emotions??" just because it doesn't evoke anything for me.

Haha, I totally get this. Some writing is so spare (my own included) that it ends up depressing me. The Dud Avocado by Elaine Dundy is a fun, light read from 1958 -- the protag is sort of a proto-Holly Golightly. Keeps you guessing, and it's just absurd and funny.

(unrelated) Re: genre stuff again -- I do read certain fiction sometimes and think that it just isn't quite "there" craft-wise. But imo not everything is meant to screen as finely-wrought, flowing prose. Popular fiction sometimes lacks the technical strengths that I admire in literary fiction, but that doesn't mean it's less successful in its aims. Just shooting for a different goal.

Plus, VERY rarely do I read literary fiction and think, "Wow, this plot is amazing and the world building is incredible!" But genre fiction, YA, and other types of writing that get (unfairly) shitted on usually excel in those areas, and tend to stick with me long after reading.

Time and place for each...no damn way do I want to read Flags In The Dust on vacation, you know. Give me some dumb mystery about a hot detective solving a cupcake murder or something

Edited February 23, 2022 by MDP
typo

[sassydragon]

(oops, it looks like a bunch of messages didn't load for me until I sent this message. this is regarding genre fiction / trashy novels)

A few of my classmates used to write erotica and romance like that. They get paid very little (USD 10 for 2k words? and they have to finish 2k words or more per day I think). They receive the storylines in advance and have to use 'western' character descriptions, names, and settings (this is in an Asian country btw). My friends don't like the writing they do, but they need the money and have very short deadlines so they just do the bare minimum. I guess that's also the kind of stories I was referring to.

Completely agree that romance novels and other genre texts have their own standards and should not be looked down on. I think some people look down on them because the books sometimes employ certain kinds of characters, plots, and tropes (and this is not all genre fiction of course). But, from my understanding, the way every book employs elements like these in a plausible but fresh way is what makes the books enjoyable to their audience.

Edited February 23, 2022 by sassydragon

[MDP]

18 minutes ago, sassydragon said:

Completely agree that romance novels and other genre texts have their own standards and should not be looked down on.

Perfect way to say this  

Also unrelated, but the silence from NYU/Cornell today re: Fiction is deafening. Put me out of my misery!

[Yellow62]

Another poetry acceptance from Iowa is up. Here we go.