2022 Application Thread

[AP]

I'm not sure at what point the discussion broke out. But no, under no circumstances will I ever stop honoring prospective students with the truth about the reality of our profession.

Let me clear on something. No one, absolutely no one is saying do not get a PhD in History (well, actually that other thread discusses that). Here, I believe the discussion is please know what you are getting yourself into. 

I understand that many people want to get a PhD to do research and teach, not to go into tech or law or alt-ac. That's OK. Nobody is saying that your goals are misplaced or unrealistic. In fact, they are realistic because yes, you need a PhD to do research and teach at the college level. 

In this thread people like to theorize on things they have absolutely no clue ("this email probably means you are in!" "It means you are still on the run!" "They decide based on fit") to which I do not respond because yeah, that's partly of the purpose of this thread, theorizing together and not harming anyone. More than once I have been tempted to interject but did not because, honestly, those wonderments mean nothing and help ease anxiety about admissions. So I stay in my lane.

But I will never stop warning anyone who wants to pursue a PhD in History of the situation in the profession and the job market. It is my professional responsibility as a participant of this forum. I agree with @psstein @TMP @dr. telkanuru that you should think it through. If you have received this advice before, great. If you are tired of hearing it, well, it tells you how serious the situation is. If you haven't heard this advice before and are upset, I am really sorry, but this advice is not out of lack of support or gatekeeping; quite the opposite. Unfortunately, this is not a "make me happy" forum. Don't want the advice? Don't take it. You can decide to dismiss or ignore me, which is fine of course (this is why I didn't quote any of the comments that protested that the thread weren't cuddling enough). 

But let me tell you that if you land good advisors (as many of you are on track to do, congratulations admits!), just bear in mind you will receive advice that you will not like, as sometimes happens with good advice. The fact that you don't like it does not mean (as someone implied) that your decision is wrong. It means, as someone else said, that you are being honest with yourself about the risks and the benefits, and that you are ready for this. 

Good luck!

[flowersandcoffee]

Have Yale acceptances already come out? If so, do you mind sharing your sub-field?

[charmsprof]

1 hour ago, AP said:

(this is why I didn't quote any of the comments that protested that the thread weren't cuddling enough)

It's this. Why are you being underhanded and snide? 

That's my issue. I don't care if y'all are coddling, nice, whatever. I had a great conversation today in DMs (with someone you tagged) where they genuinely challenged and forced me to think through my commitment to getting a PhD, and have multiple plans if things go south. That is what being a resource is. That's what is useful and productive.

These statements interspersed through these posts are what I have a problem with. If you care, why are you being condescending, belittling and making it seem like people's concerns aren't valid? People are saying that they just want a space to talk to each other about notifications/acceptances/etc. I don't think that's asking people to be "cuddling." There are two other pages on here where people have had these convos in depth, one starting in 2015 that has had recent activity, and one in 2020. Someone even suggested, to which a few people agreed that there should be two topics on this. 

At this point, some of y'all are just being assholes and masking it as "helpful advice." You want to be helpful? Stop making blanket statements, and actually provide help. There have been multiple requests from one person asking how do we make it if the job market is shitty, and only a handful of people provided useful solutions (paralegals, real estate, etc). You nor your friend worried about finances have offered any solution, but you are claiming to be the authority. Stop making blanket statements about how bad shit is, and not actually help people when they are begging for it. If you want people to take the advice, make it constructive. Tell us how bad it is, tell us what YOU are doing in this hellscape, tell us what your friends are doing. Guide people to resources. 

People don't get to be mad when they are giving unsolicited, hateful advice and pretending that It's "help." You're being a bully. 

Edited February 9, 2022 by charmsprof

[Sigaba]

There's a certain irony to people saying "We're all adults here" and then attempting to dictate what others should not discuss in this thread so they can get their own emotional needs fulfilled.

Change of topic. The "opportunity costs" of graduate school are not just about the money you don't make from having a full time salaried gig with health benefits and PTO. It's about the compound interest you don't earn on retirement accounts and other investments. It's about having fewer opportunities for owning a home. It's about still being in school while your friends and classmates are going onwards and upwards in their careers and personal lives. It's about understanding the declining marketability of your skillset in a society that undervalues a historian's skillset and sensibilities. (If I knew then what I know now, would I have taken that left turn to North Gate and into a computer science class rather than strolling on to Dwinelle for a class on Jacksonian America? I have no idea.) 

Congratulations to those who have received offers of admission. Believe it or not, in a year or two you'll be longing for the relatively certainty and stress free days of your application season.

To those of you who are hitting "refresh" thirty times a second and/or are frantically reading the tea leaves of others' "I got in" posts to figure out your chances, hang in there. Please consider other (less self destructive) ways of passing the time. You could contribute to the "Lessons learned" thread. You could do your best on focusing on your current academic projects. You could assume that you're going to be in a graduate program this fall or next and start preparing for your next set of challenges.

To those who have had an unsuccessful application season, consider the benefits of getting some rest before deciding your next step.

[Sigaba]

11 minutes ago, charmsprof said:

It's this. Why are you being underhanded and snide? 

That's my issue. I don't care if y'all are coddling, nice, whatever. I had a great conversation today in DMs (with someone you tagged) where they genuinely challenged and forced me to think through my commitment to getting a PhD, and have multiple plans if things go south. That is what being a resource is. That's what is useful and productive.

These statements interspersed through these posts are what I have a problem with. If you care, why are you being condescending, belittling and making it seem like people's concerns aren't valid? People are saying that they just want a space to talk to each other about notifications/acceptances/etc. I don't think that's asking people to be "cuddling." There are two other pages on here where people have had these convos in depth, one starting in 2015 that has had recent activity, and one in 2020. Someone even suggested, to which a few people agreed that there should be two topics on this. 

At this point, some of y'all are just being assholes and masking it as "helpful advice." You want to be helpful? Stop making blanket statements, and actually provide help. There have been multiple requests from one person asking how do we make it if the job market is shitty, and only a handful of people provided useful solutions (paralegals, real estate, etc). You nor your friend worried about finances have offered any solution, but you are claiming to be the authority. Stop making blanket statements about how bad shit is, and not actually help people when they are begging for it. If you want people to take the advice, make it constructive. Tell us how bad it is, tell us what YOU are doing in this hellscape, tell us what your friends are doing. Guide people to resources. 

People don't get to be mad when they are giving unsolicited, hateful advice and pretending that It's "help." You're being a bully. 

What is stopping you from starting the kind of a thread that you want?

If you find a certain person's post not to your liking, why are you continuing to read them?

Edited February 9, 2022 by Sigaba

[charmsprof]

3 minutes ago, Sigaba said:

What is stopping you from starting the kind of a thread that you want?

If you find a certain person's post not to your liking, why are you continuing to read them?

I mean, I guess I'm mistaken, but I thought that this was the thread that people wanted to post about admissions stuff? At least that's what various people have expressed that's what they're wanting/thought they were getting/what they had prior to yesterday from the thread? 

I'm genuinely not trying to police people or force them to communicate be a certain way. However, if someone is saying that their intent is x, yet their impact is y, then we'd be pretty crappy historians/teachers/educators if we let them continue on x path, oui? If someone is saying that they want to help, guide, teach, and multiple people are saying it's coming off as bullying, condescending, cynicism, arrogance, then... In a course, if a professor isn't teaching to meet their students, and a couple of students say something, the professor would be in the wrong to berate the class, right? 

Like I'm not getting what the issue here is. It's not about "being to my liking." Some people are saying they're trying to help, others are saying its not helpful (and are asking them to redirect the energy). There are people on here saying they feel like they are being bullied when all they want is to know if they got into a program, and have the continued support of others in this space if they didn't. I'm not getting why we're not trying to fix that.

[emeraldsapphire]

If any current applicants would like to participate in an alternative platform for discussing applications/notifications/decisions, PM me. 

Edited February 9, 2022 by emeraldsapphire

[Sigaba]

12 minutes ago, charmsprof said:

I mean, I guess I'm mistaken, but I thought that this was the thread that people wanted to post about admissions stuff? At least that's what various people have expressed that's what they're wanting/thought they were getting/what they had prior to yesterday from the thread? 

I'm genuinely not trying to police people or force them to communicate be a certain way. However, if someone is saying that their intent is x, yet their impact is y, then we'd be pretty crappy historians/teachers/educators if we let them continue on x path, oui? If someone is saying that they want to help, guide, teach, and multiple people are saying it's coming off as bullying, condescending, cynicism, arrogance, then... In a course, if a professor isn't teaching to meet their students, and a couple of students say something, the professor would be in the wrong to berate the class, right? 

Like I'm not getting what the issue here is. It's not about "being to my liking." Some people are saying they're trying to help, others are saying its not helpful (and are asking them to redirect the energy). There are people on here saying they feel like they are being bullied when all they want is to know if they got into a program, and have the continued support of others in this space if they didn't. I'm not getting why we're not trying to fix that.

Unless you're using an alt account, it seems that you've been here a short while. I think that if you were to take a deep dive into @AP's post, you'd quickly find that this individual is the exact opposite of the person you're describing.

To me, the issue you are having has something to do with you. I think that you're sending a clear message that if you don't get what you want when you want it and how you want it, you're going to go into attack mode. 

FWIW, here's something I learned. History professors (like @AP) give very subtle guidance. Why? I don't know. Maybe they don't want to blowback that can follow if the recipient doesn't like the message. I do know that sometime students mistake coaching for criticism. I also know that it sometimes takes a while (or in my case, years) to figure out the wisdom, care, and respect that goes into such guidance.

[charmsprof]

15 minutes ago, Sigaba said:

To me, the issue you are having has something to do with you. I think that you're sending a clear message that if you don't get what you want when you want it and how you want it, you're going to go into attack mode. 

 

edit -- just found out that you can ignore people after trying to find it all today. Don't worry about replying.

Edited February 9, 2022 by charmsprof

[psstein]

1 hour ago, Sigaba said:

There's a certain irony to people saying "We're all adults here" and then attempting to dictate what others should not discuss in this thread so they can get their own emotional needs fulfilled.

Change of topic. The "opportunity costs" of graduate school are not just about the money you don't make from having a full time salaried gig with health benefits and PTO. It's about the compound interest you don't earn on retirement accounts and other investments. It's about having fewer opportunities for owning a home. It's about still being in school while your friends and classmates are going onwards and upwards in their careers and personal lives. It's about understanding the declining marketability of your skillset in a society that undervalues a historian's skillset and sensibilities. (If I knew then what I know now, would I have taken that left turn to North Gate and into a computer science class rather than strolling on to Dwinelle for a class on Jacksonian America? I have no idea.)

Agreed with all of your comments. The opportunity costs are not only financial, though those are certainly the easiest to quantify.

1 hour ago, charmsprof said:

It's this. Why are you being underhanded and snide? 

That's my issue. I don't care if y'all are coddling, nice, whatever. I had a great conversation today in DMs (with someone you tagged) where they genuinely challenged and forced me to think through my commitment to getting a PhD, and have multiple plans if things go south. That is what being a resource is. That's what is useful and productive.

These statements interspersed through these posts are what I have a problem with. If you care, why are you being condescending, belittling and making it seem like people's concerns aren't valid? People are saying that they just want a space to talk to each other about notifications/acceptances/etc. I don't think that's asking people to be "cuddling." There are two other pages on here where people have had these convos in depth, one starting in 2015 that has had recent activity, and one in 2020. Someone even suggested, to which a few people agreed that there should be two topics on this. 

You nor your friend worried about finances have offered any solution, but you are claiming to be the authority. Stop making blanket statements about how bad shit is, and not actually help people when they are begging for it. If you want people to take the advice, make it constructive. Tell us how bad it is, tell us what YOU are doing in this hellscape, tell us what your friends are doing. Guide people to resources. 

People don't get to be mad when they are giving unsolicited, hateful advice and pretending that It's "help." You're being a bully. 

I assume you're referring to me when you say "your friend worried about finances" to @AP. The financial elements are the easiest to point to, but far from the only ones.

As for solutions, there've been more than 2 or 3 proposed in the thread.

I said that I work as a consultant for a professional services firm. Think about the skills that I use on a daily basis: clear, cogent writing with strong supporting evidence, presenting what we do to clients and other stakeholders, and breaking down multifaceted, complex problems and helping clients understand them in ways that make them easier to address and understand. These are all extremely valuable skills you learn with a history degree. There are 10-15 firms that I know of who love people with these skills (and hire history majors-- yes, I'm happy to discuss in DMs). 

Besides the corporate route I've outlined, there's non-profit/NGO work, which again, requires people who communicate well and can quickly build up expertise on areas of need. Both of these routes also require strong organizational and project management skills.

Finally, there's government work and education. I know the least about this area, so I'll leave it to others to discuss.

Edited February 9, 2022 by psstein

[wynntir]

12 minutes ago, psstein said:

Finally, there's government work and education. I know the least about this area, so I'll leave it to others to discuss.

In an effort to share resources and hopefully contribute to the solution and not the problem, I'm a public school history teacher and former public history museum educator. Should also add that I only have a Bachelors. Happy to discuss those career paths for anyone interested!

[AP]

32 minutes ago, Sigaba said:

Why? I don't know. 

Neither do I! ?

[GradSchoolAndSuch]

If the Penn JD and Masters admit is here, could you please PM me?

[teaANDanxiety]

9 hours ago, metfan26 said:

Any South Asianists here get in anywhere? Interested to see how things went for people in our small field, seeing as I've done poorly myself.

South Asianist here. International applicant. Got waitlisted in two places and rejected in several. Good luck to you. 

[TheGradCocaCola]

I'm not mad at decisions, but I have an honest curiosity: what is the mechanics behind universities sending acceptations and waitlistings notices first, and then, days later, sending rejections?

Is it a way to see if any of the choosen ones will say "Thank You for your interest in having me as a PhD student. Despite being impressed with your institution and the stipend offered, I regret to inform that I can't take favorable action on your behalf", and then pass the opportunity to someone? (I don't think that makes sense, since there are the waitlisted).

[dr. t]

2 hours ago, TheGradCocaCola said:

I'm not mad at decisions, but I have an honest curiosity: what is the mechanics behind universities sending acceptations and waitlistings notices first, and then, days later, sending rejections?

It's usually how the close-out process works. No one noticed in the era before the internet. FYI it's how job searches work, too.

Or it's to enculturate you to expect the dispassionate disdain with which university administrations view graduate students. 

[TheGradCocaCola]

If you applied to Columbia and received no news, check the portal. They updated.

[dr. t]

14 hours ago, charmsprof said:

thread that people wanted to post about admissions stuff? At least that's what various people have expressed that's what they're wanting/thought they were getting/what they had prior to yesterday from the thread? 

Ok, putting on the mod hat.

First: people will talk about what they want to talk about, and threads will drift over time. I'm not enforcing subject discipline or splitting threads. I don't get paid for that. Heck, after the recent sale of this site, I don't even get an amazon gift card and a thank you at Christmas anymore. If you find people talking about stuff you're not interested in, I encourage you not to read it.

Second: Application threads have never been a place just for results and vibes. They have always been a place where new members could post questions and old members could offer what advice and wisdom they had. And that includes this thread, even before this past weekend.

Third: Bullying and negativity. I let these comments, some of which were aimed at me, slide, because my initial response—if this is bullying, I'm interested to see what you make of seminar—was uncharitable, counter-productive, and one of those snide remarks that @charmsprof rightly objects to above. But I'm also not going to let this thread descend into the weaponization of safe space and inclusivity language to silence those speaking uncomfortable ideas; I'm already having to pull apart that mess in the MFA application thread. At least the post-reporting wars haven't started here, I guess?

Anyway, this is all to say: this thread is not simply a place for comfort, congratulations, and commiseration. I suppose that makes it not a "safe space", though spaces are never in a binary of safe and unsafe. That's not to say that such spaces can't or shouldn't exist on this forum, but that one should not expect the general thread to be one.

[earlymodernist123]

16 hours ago, Sigaba said:

There's a certain irony to people saying "We're all adults here" and then attempting to dictate what others should not discuss in this thread so they can get their own emotional needs fulfilled.

Longtime lurker here and I'm wishing I would've spoken up sooner. The "adults" who really use this thread to "get their own emotional needs fulfilled" are PhDs and more senior grads who constantly use a website for graduate admissions so they can punch down and stroke their egos. I'm not sure why else they'd feel the need to be so condescending, pompous and self righteous. Since everyone is focused on the job market, this is a good reminder that your field is always a mucchhh smaller world than you think. The criticisms of this forum aren't the brand new ideas of whiney applicants who want a safe space. Those who act badly on places like this GC forum and academic Twitter get widespread reputations amongst graduate cohorts and faculty alike. The longer you stay in academia the more you'll see the the academy's demands and exploitation weaponized as an excuse to be an ass to "inferiors." This is, sadly, not uncommon but most people see it for what it is -- bullying. A lot of newbies tried, especially initially, to be reasonable and genuine and were met with snarky, patronizing, and often unfair and mischaracterizing responses. 

No one in this recent discussion has rejected or dismissed the realities of the job market, suggested that they're expecting a tenure track position at the end of all this, seemed to take this decision lightly, said we should never discuss how bad the job market or whatever. No matter how many people explain that they're already aware of what they're signing up for because any complaint about behavior is written off as secret denial about the job market or wanting to be coddled and shielded from any sad news or something. There hasn't been so much disfavor with the forum in the past day or so because we've been exposed to shocking new truths about academia from valiant truth tellers trying to save us and we're just too mentally weak to accept it. Rather, there's been a group of users preferring GC to be mostly about our current applications as that's what CG and this particular thread are supposedly predominately for. There are threads for the job market and its been discussed here and in other application threads to give very needed context. As a few others have pointed out, most of us already did our research before we applied. Right now, we're overwhelmed by the step right in front of us and figuring out what's best for our research. Some just wanted a place mostly dedicated for applications for practically's sake if nothing else and I get that. Wayyy more importantly, people done with the smugness and belittling that are falsely categorized as altruism. 

Everyone has a right to be discontent with the hellscape that is the job market to say the least. But the victim complexes of those now worried about being "silenced" and "safe spaces" is ironic. I'm amazed at the recent discussions of privilege and how truly blind some people still are

There's a ton of truly solid advice on this forum, but its great advice can be found elsewhere and those giving it would tell you that. The application and job market wisdom will always be here to revisit. To me, it's worthwhile to carve out a new space as others did yesterday. I'm sure those who are okay with how the forum has been run and are "staying" would like this all to end anyways. My two cents: use the results page for updates, take note of what is/was useful from the forum, but save your breadth for the new platform that was posted about yesterday. That's what I'm doing at least. Okay, logging out of GC and going to touch grass now. To those moving to the new platform, see you on the flip side. Good luck with apps, everyone

 

 

Edited February 9, 2022 by earlymodernist123

[sonnybunny]

Any University of New Mexico or University of Vermont applicants here?

[Onthesamegalaxy]

12 hours ago, teaANDanxiety said:

South Asianist here. International applicant. Got waitlisted in two places and rejected in several. Good luck to you. 

South Asianist here. I applied to 6 schools and so far got rejected in two. No acceptance or waiting. Did you apply to Michigan? Do they ask for interviews?

[libralatte]

1 hour ago, sonnybunny said:

Any University of New Mexico or University of Vermont applicants here?

Hi! I applied to UNM  

[dr. t]

1 hour ago, earlymodernist123 said:

Longtime lurker here and I'm wishing I would've spoken up sooner. 

Are you really? 'Cause you have two accounts registered on this site, @anxiouslurker. Hope you don't get a bad rap on twitter.

Enough. That's one easy ban, and I'm in a grumpy mood. I'll turn this car around if I have to.

 

[thatlastmoment]

Has anyone heard from the CUNY Graduate Center?

[censoredbybigtech]

37 minutes ago, dr. telkanuru said:

Are you really? 'Cause you have two accounts registered on this site, @anxiouslurker. Hope you don't get a bad rap on twitter.

Enough. That's one easy ban, and I'm in a grumpy mood. I'll turn this car around if I have to.

 

“Anxious Lurker” here: Yep, my other account had limited action warnings and I assumed it was likely a glitch or restriction by mod. I made a new one and it the merge option during login wouldn’t work. After several attempts my old account was locked (probably because I hadn’t used the same email/passwords like I thought I had? boomer moments on my end). I had a warning on my account and now I’m banned for “abusive behavior.” Feel free to merge them for clarity if that’s in your capability as a mod. As I said, I’ve lurked for a long time and wish I spoke up sooner. I stand by everything I said including that I’m moving to a new platform so this can be banned too if you’d like. I’m using this to give context, not to further engage and won’t be logging back into it. Thanks