Recruitment Event Advice

[Eudaimonia]

So, congrats to all who've gotten acceptances and get to go to recruitment events! I'm deeply excited for everyone, and I know I certainly can't wait

I was wondering if anyone has some general advice for these events -- what to wear (a suit? a nice sweater & long skirt? what kind of shoes?), what kinds of questions to ask POIs and current grad students, etc.

Thanks in advance and good luck to each of you reading this!

[grace246]

I also have a question about visits (and figured putting it in this thread was the most logical thing!).

I've been invited to visit a school I've been accepted to, but it's a small programme and there isn't an event but they've offered to arrange for me to visit. The professor who emailed me asked me to let me know who I'd like to meet with. How many people do you think I should be looking to ask to meet? And is there anything in particular I should ask to do or see whilst there?

[blaspheming]

Coordinator at Davis said "business casual, khakis or jeans, button up shirt, no tie or polo"

That's all I got

[PickMe!]

I asked my current mentor about this and she told me that most professors don't care about how you look or what you wear so comfortable is the best option. According to her, "some of the professors you'll meet will look like they haven't showered in 10 years so you'll be fine." She did say that this may not be the case at other institutions (i.e. Ivies) but even then it isn't necessary to be too formal. Based on that, I'm going with dark jeans and a button-down shirt.

My three basic goals for grad school are 1) do awesome research, 2) publish/present, and 3) not be completely broke, so as far as questions go, I'm interested in talking to current grad students about their experiences. Hopefully they'll be pretty honest and paint a more accurate picture of what to expect if I choose to go there. Other than that, I'm looking to get some more funding info (Is it paid over 9 or 12 months? What does conference funding look like? What are the expectations/duties of a TA? Etc.) and an idea of how faculty interact with students (Do they regularly co-author? How often do they like to meet? Etc.).

Then again I haven't been to one of these before soooooo yeah...

[dienekes]

Yeah, I'm confused by people who are intent on dressing up for visitations. I mean, you're already in! They couldn't and wouldn't revoke your admittance if you showed up in sweatpants and a ratty t-shirt, and professors dress pretty casually as a rule anyway. You'd almost certainly be outdressing them if you showed up in a tie or more formal business-y wear. Look respectable but not like you're trying too hard to impress anyone with how much of a sharp young professional you are. I'm planning on wearing jeans, a button-down shirt, a cardigan, and my nicer pair of Chuck Taylor high-tops. I.e. what I wear pretty much every day during the winter.

As for questions, I'm struggling to think of questions beyond PickMe! said...but then again I'm vaguely paranoid that I'm going to get to schools and not be able to ask any intelligent questions or say anything smart. I'd love to hear everyone else's ideas though!

[saltlakecity2012]

I would suggest that you pick 2-3 professors whose work is pertinent to your own and do the following:

1. ask for the contact information of some of their current advisees - if possible, in different stages of their studies - and get in touch with them either while you're there or via email. ASK THE STUDENTS if there's anything they would have wanted to know about the program that no one told them

2. ask them about their current projects, what phases they're at, and what (if anything) their students do to engage in their research

3. ask for some publications that were co-authored with students (probably just ask the point of contact for your subfield on that one)

4. ask about the department's success in bringing in research grants, and which projects are likely to bring students on board in the next year or so (obviously this won't be too relevant to you, as you won't have much of an opportunity to do things like that until after your first year or so, but it might give you an idea of how carefully the professors consider their students' research as well as their own)

5. ask about what the department prides itself on regarding the candidates it puts onto the market

I definitely share the goals PickMe! mentioned, but the livability of the environment is also really important to me. If you're choosing from a couple of or several similarly ranked schools, consider whether or not you'd be happy living in that environment for the next 5-7 years. Does the area offer the opportunity to engage in things (other than research ) that you love to do? I've definitely heard that happier grad students are more productive grad students. I think for me, personally, that's a big factor. Of course the questions to ask students that will give you an idea of whether or not you can be happy at that school will vary from person to person, but maybe just asking the current students to run you through what their lives look like holistically would be a good idea.

[wuerzburg]

I am wondering if it would be a mistake to ask faculty about their future plans? I know that when it comes to faculty moving university its not straight forward but what about retirement? Five years is a long time so would it be a valid question and how could you bring it up gently?

[RWBG]

but the livability of the environment is also really important to me. If you're choosing from a couple of or several similarly ranked schools, consider whether or not you'd be happy living in that environment for the next 5-7 years. Does the area offer the opportunity to engage in things (other than research ) that you love to do? I've definitely heard that happier grad students are more productive grad students.

This is all technically fine, but I worry about students using these as excuses instead of actual reasons (e.g. "well they're more or less similarly ranked" or "I definitely couldn't do good work living in New Jersey"). In general, I feel like most people don't have an issue valuing location enough, and should instead be cautioned to seriously consider the long-term implications of any decision (i.e. don't excessively discount the future!). Just remember to consider that you're optimizing over the course of your entire life, and living somewhere nice for the next five years is going to be cold comfort if you spend the following fifty in southern Utah.

[BigBastard63]

Clothing: Pants, shirt, vest/tie/both unless told otherwise. That's what I've seen and done as both a law student and Finance PhD student, though those tend to be more conservative (clothing-wise) professions. Bring a blazer or a sportscoat in case the standard trends more towards business than business casual.

I am wondering if it would be a mistake to ask faculty about their future plans? I know that when it comes to faculty moving university its not straight forward but what about retirement? Five years is a long time so would it be a valid question and how could you bring it up gently?

I had this concern when looking at law schools. I asked the professor. He said he had no plans to retire, but circumstances beyond his control altered those plans. You pays your money and you takes your chances, but he didn't seem offended. I'd suggest being open about it. If you meet with the professor and you have a really good rapport built, it's much easier to tell him (her) that their presence is a big reason for your decision. You then can ask if they are *currently actively considering* leaving the school. That will at least give them the chance to tell you if they're planning on taking the 30 year package in 2 years or flying off to teach at Arizona/Florida State. I'd view asking about the institution's tenure policy/rates if you're wanting to work with a junior scholar in a similar light. If you know a current grad student or faculty member, it might be more comfortable to ask them, but a professor's hardly going to get offended because you want him to influence your career and would like to know how likely it is he'll be doing that. .

[catchermiscount]

This is based on experience from six rushes. Any example or issue I raise is from an actual event.

(1) Don't be a jerk. I can tell you this because I am, in fact, a jerk.

(2) Business casual is fine. If you want to add a blazer to your shirt and slacks, that's cool, but don't be a jerk about it. No shiny Ed Hardy shirts.

(3) Ask if you can sit in a class or two. If you do, don't be a jerk in class. You're there to observe, not to interrupt. If the professor asks you a question or something, go ahead and participate, but don't be a jerk about it.

An example on (3). Last year, we had a guy sit in our (highly technical) dynamic modeling class. He happened to sit in the dryest, hardest lecture of the year. So the professor proves a theorem on the board that has us all panting and trembling, and he writes out "for all" on the board in doing so. During break, the prospective student rocks up to the professor and is alike "Hey, why did you write out 'for all' instead of using the upside-down A? That would have been more rigorous.'" Don't be like that. That's jerky.

(4) If you are a jerk when you are drunk, then do not drink too much. If you are fun when you are drunk (but not a fun jerk---there are fun jerks out there), wait until the faculty are gone and then rock the f**k out.

(5) You can ask professors if they're happy at Department X, but don't be a jerk about it. Don't ask if they have a mortgage or anything. That's jerky. If they're unhappy, they'll say so in code. Don't press.

(6) Don't be a jerk on academic grounds. Don't talk down to people. Don't tell people they *need* to read a paper or a book. Don't talk about your own research unless asked. Don't say you published unless it's a real journal. Like, a real journal.

(7) Ask the students the hard questions, but don't be a jerk about it. Ask about their research to get a sense of the training. Don't feign being impressed, but don't get too critical. Ask what they're happy about, what they're unhappy about. Be discriminating-seeming but not critical.

(8) Don't be a jerk about other schools you're considering. Not everything you see at Department X reminds you of something you might see on your pending visit at Department Y. You don't have to rattle off your list all the live-long day; that's jerky. You came to visit and learn more about Department X, so stick to that.

(9) Don't be a jerk about stipends just yet. If you want to ask for more, visit day isn't the day to do it. That's really jerky.

(10) Don't be a jerk with the other visitors. Don't probe them constantly. Don't seem indifferent. If you go to Department X, then these people will be your all-nighter buddies during problem sets; your comp stress empathizers; your idea-bouncers. Don't get that off on the wrong foot.

(11) Seem like somebody that faculty and grad students will want to work with. The best way to do that is to avoid being a jerk.

And no, your offer won't be revoked if you're a jerk. But impressions matter. They matter with potential advisors, with other grad cohortmates you might coauthor with, with older grad students that might offer well-timed advice. You may think you've made it (and you have, and your achievements should be celebrated), but you'll be a lowly first-year soon enough. It's going to be a lot of fun, and you might as well get the experience off on the right foot.

[catchermiscount]

One question that doesn't get asked a lot (and that I think should be asked) is: what classes are being taught next year? Often thoes are already set. Who's teaching the required classes? Are there methods requirements? Philosophy? Theory? Which substantive classes are going to be around?

Your development will be path-dependent, and the first year really establishes things. Believe it or not, for many people, the substantive interests so beautifully-articulated in the SoP and that seem so critical right now will be on the cutting-room floor in a few months' time. Openmindedness in the first year is critical.

The first-year requirements professors are often the ones you'll get closest with fastest (both my first-year methods and theory professors are on my committee, for example). Good to know who they'll be.

[anxiousmike]

I think jeans and a button down are what you should wear (i.e. don't go all out like a first year MBA student). I think most of us will run the risk of being overdressed as opposed to underdressed.

[RWBG]

This is based on experience from six rushes. Any example or issue I raise is from an actual event.

(1) Don't be a jerk. I can tell you this because I am, in fact, a jerk.

(2) Business casual is fine. If you want to add a blazer to your shirt and slacks, that's cool, but don't be a jerk about it. No shiny Ed Hardy shirts.

(3) Ask if you can sit in a class or two. If you do, don't be a jerk in class. You're there to observe, not to interrupt. If the professor asks you a question or something, go ahead and participate, but don't be a jerk about it.

An example on (3). Last year, we had a guy sit in our (highly technical) dynamic modeling class. He happened to sit in the dryest, hardest lecture of the year. So the professor proves a theorem on the board that has us all panting and trembling, and he writes out "for all" on the board in doing so. During break, the prospective student rocks up to the professor and is alike "Hey, why did you write out 'for all' instead of using the upside-down A? That would have been more rigorous.'" Don't be like that. That's jerky.

(4) If you are a jerk when you are drunk, then do not drink too much. If you are fun when you are drunk (but not a fun jerk---there are fun jerks out there), wait until the faculty are gone and then rock the f**k out.

(5) You can ask professors if they're happy at Department X, but don't be a jerk about it. Don't ask if they have a mortgage or anything. That's jerky. If they're unhappy, they'll say so in code. Don't press.

(6) Don't be a jerk on academic grounds. Don't talk down to people. Don't tell people they *need* to read a paper or a book. Don't talk about your own research unless asked. Don't say you published unless it's a real journal. Like, a real journal.

(7) Ask the students the hard questions, but don't be a jerk about it. Ask about their research to get a sense of the training. Don't feign being impressed, but don't get too critical. Ask what they're happy about, what they're unhappy about. Be discriminating-seeming but not critical.

(8) Don't be a jerk about other schools you're considering. Not everything you see at Department X reminds you of something you might see on your pending visit at Department Y. You don't have to rattle off your list all the live-long day; that's jerky. You came to visit and learn more about Department X, so stick to that.

(9) Don't be a jerk about stipends just yet. If you want to ask for more, visit day isn't the day to do it. That's really jerky.

(10) Don't be a jerk with the other visitors. Don't probe them constantly. Don't seem indifferent. If you go to Department X, then these people will be your all-nighter buddies during problem sets; your comp stress empathizers; your idea-bouncers. Don't get that off on the wrong foot.

(11) Seem like somebody that faculty and grad students will want to work with. The best way to do that is to avoid being a jerk.

And no, your offer won't be revoked if you're a jerk. But impressions matter. They matter with potential advisors, with other grad cohortmates you might coauthor with, with older grad students that might offer well-timed advice. You may think you've made it (and you have, and your achievements should be celebrated), but you'll be a lowly first-year soon enough. It's going to be a lot of fun, and you might as well get the experience off on the right foot.

I think there's a subtle unifying theme to your post here.

[anxiousmike]

Also - I would try to listen more than speak. I find it's the students who are trying to sound informed and knowledgable (even if it comes from a good place) who most often run into the 'jerk' issue that Coach mentioned above.

[Ironheel!!]

I only got two emails from my boss while reading this fine post! Seriously, great post. But I question why people are so uptight about what they will wear? I suggest out of work actor: A pair of skinny jeans, blue oxford, v-neck sweater, and a cord blazer.

[catchermiscount]

I think there's a subtle unifying theme to your post here.

Nope---I didn't have anything in mind, at least...

[AssocProf]

I am wondering if it would be a mistake to ask faculty about their future plans? I know that when it comes to faculty moving university its not straight forward but what about retirement? Five years is a long time so would it be a valid question and how could you bring it up gently?

Hi all! I'm an Associate Professor at a top-20 R1. The single best piece of advice I can give you about how to approach your visit day (and how to approach the decision-making process more generally) is to NOT choose a program based on one professor with whom you want to work. Keep in mind that you're choosing a program, not a person. At most, you'll be lucky to take two classes with your POI. Most of your interactions outside of research (in classes you take, as a TA, on your qualifying exam committee, etc) will be with other profs. Obviously you should choose a program that's a good fit for your interests. And if there aren't any faculty who are doing research even remotely related to your interest then you shouldn't go to that program. But the worst thing you can do is to choose a program based on one person. Even if your POI says s/he doesn't have plans to retire or leave the Univ anytime soon, circumstances change (btw, I'm not certain you can ask the "retire" question without implying that you think the person is old). Your POI may very well leave or retire. Or you and s/he may not get along. Your best bet is to choose a *program* that will provide you with the best training based on your interests and career aspirations, so you're insulated if your POI leaves for another U, retires, is a jerk, goes into administration, or drastically changes his/her research agenda).

What does this mean with regard to visit advice? You should meet with as many faculty members in your chosen field and related field(s) as possible during your visit. If you're asked who you'd like to meet with, provide a longish list. You can certainly rank them - people you'd most like to meet with, people you'd like to meet with, and people who it would be great to meet with if there's time. But don't just select your POI and one or two others. Make the most of the visit day to meet with many people. This goes for grad students as well - don't focus solely on your POIs advisees. You want to get a sense of the program as a whole, from a diverse cross-section of grad students.

[Megan]

I have a question related to this, maybe for somebody already in grad school. I am currently abroad. I am coming back the week AFTER my admit weekend at NYU, and have obligations here until then. Does anybody have any idea if schools are open to people scheduling more informal visits? I'd still really like to visit the campus, meet with POIs and talk to some students, but I just don't think I'm going to be able to swing being in NYC on the 23rd. I haven't asked yet, because I've been feeling kind of bad about it, but I wonder if anybody knows if this happens, or how frequently people do it?

[catchermiscount]

I have a question related to this, maybe for somebody already in grad school. I am currently abroad. I am coming back the week AFTER my admit weekend at NYU, and have obligations here until then. Does anybody have any idea if schools are open to people scheduling more informal visits? I'd still really like to visit the campus, meet with POIs and talk to some students, but I just don't think I'm going to be able to swing being in NYC on the 23rd. I haven't asked yet, because I've been feeling kind of bad about it, but I wonder if anybody knows if this happens, or how frequently people do it?

Yes, this is relatively common.

EDIT: If you do go on an informal visit to see a school due to scheduling issues, (1) don't be a jerk about it, and (2) don't be a jerk when you get there. This is not directed at you but at the set of potential jerks out there.

Edited February 16, 2012 by coachrjc

[whirlibird]

Yeah, I won't be back from abroad until June, so I'm really wondering how to make the most of remote contact since I won't be able to attend any visiting weekends. Do people do Skype? Is that weird? Should I send unsolicited emails to POIs and current grad students to ask questions, or go through the DGS/someone else to be put in contact with the right people? Bottom line, how can I get the best feel for departments without making ANY physical visit before decision time?

[hupr]

In my experience, schools were open to doing informal visits, which was in some ways better than the admit weekend, but in other ways not as good. I second the advice about not being a jerk and about meeting with more than just one or two people in the department. One thing I was surprised about, though, was that many of the campus tours didn't involve a tour of the library and carrels. I would ask to see where you'll be spending your study time. Do you get a carrel? Open or closed? When you're TA'ing, will you have an office? What are the places on campus where other students go to work? What does the computer lab look like, and do you have to pay to print and copy?

[RWBG]

An example on (3). Last year, we had a guy sit in our (highly technical) dynamic modeling class. He happened to sit in the dryest, hardest lecture of the year. So the professor proves a theorem on the board that has us all panting and trembling, and he writes out "for all" on the board in doing so. During break, the prospective student rocks up to the professor and is alike "Hey, why did you write out 'for all' instead of using the upside-down A? That would have been more rigorous.'" Don't be like that. That's jerky.

I forgot to mention; this is one of the funniest things I've read on gradcafe.

[rogerfed]

Hi, I am on a waitlist and am invited for the visitation weekend. I am pretty high on the waitilist according to the DGS and the school is my top choice. DO you guys have any advice for me on what to do during the visitation?

[Ironheel!!]

Hi, I am on a waitlist and am invited for the visitation weekend. I am pretty high on the waitilist according to the DGS and the school is my top choice. DO you guys have any advice for me on what to do during the visitation?

As Arlo Guthrie sings in Alice's Restaurant, "Kill, kill, kill!"

[puddle]

(3) Ask if you can sit in a class or two. If you do, don't be a jerk in class. You're there to observe, not to interrupt. If the professor asks you a question or something, go ahead and participate, but don't be a jerk about it.

An example on (3). Last year, we had a guy sit in our (highly technical) dynamic modeling class. He happened to sit in the dryest, hardest lecture of the year. So the professor proves a theorem on the board that has us all panting and trembling, and he writes out "for all" on the board in doing so. During break, the prospective student rocks up to the professor and is alike "Hey, why did you write out 'for all' instead of using the upside-down A? That would have been more rigorous.'" Don't be like that. That's jerky.

That was me! No, I kid. I didn't get into that university last year... I was the woman sobbing mournfully outside your classroom window.