Figuring SO into decision

[reterik]

Hi, all! I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this, so please bear with me if it's not--I'm sorry!

To my question--I've been accepted a few places with no notification of funding yet (but pretty sure I'll be funded at one of the schools), and four schools in limbo. None of the schools are "safety" schools for me, and I'd be excited to attend any of them, as long as I receive funding.

The problem: my SO of 3 years intends to apply to graduate school next season after not getting his ducks in a row this season. However, he majored in philosophy in UG, and hopes to get his doctorate in that. Considering the employment stats in philosophy, he'd need to go to a really well ranked school to ever hope of getting a tenured position. However, the schools I'm accepted to right now aren't great in philosophy, and he'd either have to deal with a lesser-ranked school or switch programs (English was his other major in UG). I know I haven't heard back from all of my schools yet, especially the ones he'd be excited to attend in philosophy, but how do I deal with this? I feel like long distance for 6-8 years would never work, but a long-standing bitterness for not being able to "follow his dreams" won't be great, either.

Ok--so this is hardly a question. I'm sorry. Thoughs? Anyone go through anything similar? Solutions I'm not thinking of?

Thanks!

[tauren]

Hi, all! I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this, so please bear with me if it's not--I'm sorry!

To my question--I've been accepted a few places with no notification of funding yet (but pretty sure I'll be funded at one of the schools), and four schools in limbo. None of the schools are "safety" schools for me, and I'd be excited to attend any of them, as long as I receive funding.

The problem: my SO of 3 years intends to apply to graduate school next season after not getting his ducks in a row this season. However, he majored in philosophy in UG, and hopes to get his doctorate in that. Considering the employment stats in philosophy, he'd need to go to a really well ranked school to ever hope of getting a tenured position. However, the schools I'm accepted to right now aren't great in philosophy, and he'd either have to deal with a lesser-ranked school or switch programs (English was his other major in UG). I know I haven't heard back from all of my schools yet, especially the ones he'd be excited to attend in philosophy, but how do I deal with this? I feel like long distance for 6-8 years would never work, but a long-standing bitterness for not being able to "follow his dreams" won't be great, either.

Ok--so this is hardly a question. I'm sorry. Thoughs? Anyone go through anything similar? Solutions I'm not thinking of?

Thanks!

I have no answer but I can sympathize. Me and my SO of 7 years are uncertain about living arrangements because he currently works the majority of the week out of state (since about Nov), but we aren't sure if he will still have the job in the Fall. If he gets a job in our current town, he plans on staying, if he keeps his current job then he'll move his stuff with mine and stay on weekends with me like now. But we haven't discussed if he ends up jobless (besides him being in real estate) in our current town, though. I'm guessing we would do a LDR, but we haven't actually discussed this in depth. =\

[reterik]

I have no answer but I can sympathize. Me and my SO of 7 years are uncertain about living arrangements because he currently works the majority of the week out of state (since about Nov), but we aren't sure if he will still have the job in the Fall. If he gets a job in our current town, he plans on staying, if he keeps his current job then he'll move his stuff with mine and stay on weekends with me like now. But we haven't discussed if he ends up jobless (besides him being in real estate) in our current town, though. I'm guessing we would do a LDR, but we haven't actually discussed this in depth. =\

Yikes. That doesn't sound great. Being in limbo about these things...sucks, and academia, from what I've seen, loves to force LDRs. It's so hard to sign leases and figure out what to do when everything is so up in the air!

Edited February 17, 2012 by reterik

[burgundykitten]

I've had this problem, but with someone completely uncompromising on even a basic level - I applied places with her program/in a geographic area with her program (last year) that had excellent reputations, and she wouldn't even consider applying there. It was extremely frustrating and often hurtful.

[reterik]

I've had this problem, but with someone completely uncompromising on even a basic level - I applied places with her program/in a geographic area with her program (last year) that had excellent reputations, and she wouldn't even consider applying there. It was extremely frustrating and often hurtful.

And I'm afraid that's what this is going to turn into; I've mostly applied in the region we already live in, but one of the two schools I've been accepted to, he's outright said "No" to. I'm a little frustrated at the lack of compromise, but who should compromise in this scenario? I feel like if either party compromises too much, it'll lead to hurt feelings in the long run. Uffda.

Might I ask what happened last year?

[contiguous]

Same situation here - I am starting to hear back from grad programs, my SO didn't get organized in time to apply to grad school so he'll be trying to get a lab/research job in the city where we currently live. My schools are a mix of northeast (where we are now) and midwest. If I end up going to a midwest school, it would hurt both our wallets to continually fly out to see each other. I'm only going for a masters, he intends to apply for PhDs next year....

[ktel]

My SO specifically did a Master's at my undergrad school so that we could stay together during my last year of my undergrad. That was a huge compromise on his part. When he got the job he had always wanted in another city, I only applied to 2 schools in that city. I will mention that probably the best school in the country with one of the best programs in my field is in this city so I didn't have to compromise on quality, but I did compromise by moving away. However I have a feeling if I had really really needed to go to a different school he would have come with me. And if he really really needed to work somewhere else I would go with him.

[Eigen]

My wife was a year behind me in applications, so I do understand.

We both came up with a set of schools we would both be potentially interested in applying to, and then we each visited all of the schools together. We ended up making a joint decision, and we're both pretty happy with where we ended up.

So when it comes to "who has to compromise", I'd say both people do. Don't stress about it too much before you hear back from everywhere, and then you can sit down with him and pick which of the schools will work best for both of you.

To Contiguous: Since you're only going for a Masters, it's a lot more doable if he moves with you until he applies/gets accepted, and then at most there would be about a year-18 mos of separation until you were done. Kind of a leapfrog thing- he moves with you, then you move with him. I've had a couple of friends that have done this, and it's a nice compromise. Each person gets a lot more choice in their school, and the time apart is minimized.

[reterik]

My wife was a year behind me in applications, so I do understand.

We both came up with a set of schools we would both be potentially interested in applying to, and then we each visited all of the schools together. We ended up making a joint decision, and we're both pretty happy with where we ended up.

So when it comes to "who has to compromise", I'd say both people do. Don't stress about it too much before you hear back from everywhere, and then you can sit down with him and pick which of the schools will work best for both of you.

To Contiguous: Since you're only going for a Masters, it's a lot more doable if he moves with you until he applies/gets accepted, and then at most there would be about a year-18 mos of separation until you were done. Kind of a leapfrog thing- he moves with you, then you move with him. I've had a couple of friends that have done this, and it's a nice compromise. Each person gets a lot more choice in their school, and the time apart is minimized.

Your whole outlook looks wonderful. Not stressing is I think the biggest issue at the moment. I'm a little frustrated that he decided late to do philosophy; it's a lot more restrictive than English, and we had planned on composing a list of schools we both could do, but he never got around to his version of the list.

It'd be nice if I were only going for a masters; right now I'm accepted to 2 straight doctorate programs and I'd rather not move more than I need to. Maybe that's just stubbornness on my part that's going to need to change if this is going to work out...

[burgundykitten]

And I'm afraid that's what this is going to turn into; I've mostly applied in the region we already live in, but one of the two schools I've been accepted to, he's outright said "No" to. I'm a little frustrated at the lack of compromise, but who should compromise in this scenario? I feel like if either party compromises too much, it'll lead to hurt feelings in the long run. Uffda.

Might I ask what happened last year?

Last year, I got in to my first choice school, but she wouldn't even consider moving to the state (which had multiple renowned programs), so I opted for my second choice because it was local to our undergrad and we could live together for another year (she was still in undergrad), then only have one year apart (it was just a Masters program) if she left. I ended up just taking a year off altogether due to lack of funding from the second choice and we still live together.

This year, we were both applying to grad schools. I changed my program of study, giving me significantly more options to apply to, but I only applied to one school because it met all my needs, is in-state and is significantly cheaper than the other places I was looking at (UMich, Case Western, etc). She applied to the same school and one out of state, but I blatantly stated from the start I wasn't moving with her OOS - the OOS she applied to is in a city I absolutely hate, her program was $50k+ per year, and I could not fathom just blowing through the cost of living in this city and going to a private school when I have low expectations of making enough to support that kind of lifestyle when I'm done. She got rejected at the OOS for a silly reason (she didn't read the program's FAQ before applying & missed a huge detail about how they reject certain undergrad majors), got accepted at our IS (which is actually one of her dream schools / where she regrets not going for undergrad), & we're just moving together. Our roommate also got in, so really we're just packing up the whole apartment & leaving for a new city.

[reterik]

Well, hey, good for you that it worked out. With some luck, maybe everything will work out for me. I'd hate to think I'm going to spend my life with this guy for nothing.

[burgundykitten]

I'd hate to think I'm going to spend my life with this guy for nothing.

I often felt the same way. I feel better about it now that there's a theoretical happy ending, at least for another two years. I feel like I'm more capable of adapting to moving AFTER grad school if/when that becomes a necessity, just trying to "settle" or compromise on programs sucked.

[reterik]

I often felt the same way. I feel better about it now that there's a theoretical happy ending, at least for another two years. I feel like I'm more capable of adapting to moving AFTER grad school if/when that becomes a necessity, just trying to "settle" or compromise on programs sucked.

Yeah, that's...what I'm worried about. Settling, that is. I'm sure getting jobs will be a huge treat </sarcasm>, but that's another bridge to cross when we come to it. Silly academia. And what happens if we break up for an unrelated reason after making so many arrangements to stay together? Theoretical happy ending, indeed. Uffda. Too much to think about.

[MashaMashaMasha]

Yeah, that's...what I'm worried about. Settling, that is. I'm sure getting jobs will be a huge treat </sarcasm>, but that's another bridge to cross when we come to it. Silly academia. And what happens if we break up for an unrelated reason after making so many arrangements to stay together? Theoretical happy ending, indeed. Uffda. Too much to think about.

Soo, not to be *that* person on a forum, but is your frustration limited to this situation? It sounds like he really dropped the ball on this life-changing decision. He never got around to making his list, he didn't get his ducks in a row to apply... From this extremely limited and biased info, it sounds to me like there's some toxicity here that you two need to address before making *any* long-term plans. Is it possible that he does not want to go? Is it possible that making a commitment for the next decade or so is too much for him?

Anyway, these are my two cents after about a year of therapy that started wayyyyy after my husband and I began to have similar issues. :-/

[reterik]

Soo, not to be *that* person on a forum, but is your frustration limited to this situation? It sounds like he really dropped the ball on this life-changing decision. He never got around to making his list, he didn't get his ducks in a row to apply... From this extremely limited and biased info, it sounds to me like there's some toxicity here that you two need to address before making *any* long-term plans. Is it possible that he does not want to go? Is it possible that making a commitment for the next decade or so is too much for him?

Anyway, these are my two cents after about a year of therapy that started wayyyyy after my husband and I began to have similar issues. :-/

Mmm, you have good points, and it's not as if I haven't tried to communicate these concerns already--he just refuses to make decisions until I've been accepted/rejected everywhere. This sounds stupid, but I doubt he did these things deliberately--he's generally a huge space cadet and just let time get away from him. But that's another thing: I expressed the importance of the issue, and he did nothing. Eh, if all else fails, we'll do the leap frog technique--things just might get dicey between then and now.

[juilletmercredi]

I feel like on some level you have to put yourself first, and your career first. It also depends on the level of seriousness you have with the SO, but you have to decide what you're willing to sacrifice for your SO. It may even help to make a list on paper - the things you hold sacred and absolutely won't compromise on; things you won't now but might later if things take a more serious turn, and things you are willing to compromise on but really want.

For me, I wasn't willing to compromise on my PhD program. I figured that we'd work it out somehow, but I figured that my training was most important. I wasn't planning an academic career anyway, so the positions I'd want to look for would've been more flexible either way as far as city and living situation goes, and I have a good idea of places SO would and wouldn't be willing to live. I figured if I wanted that later flexibility in being able to get a good job in a variety of places (mostly desirable ones, since we're both urban kinds of people), then it was important for me to go to a top-ranked program. I figured it was better to tough it out for 5 years than it would be to not know when we were going to be together afterwards due to job placements. (Besides, I didn't have much choice - SO joined the military the same day I left for grad school, and I knew he was joining, so trying to stay together intentionally was fruitless.)

It ended up working out in that he got stationed in a city about 80 miles away from my city, so I see him every weekend or so. Not ideal, but next year we'll be closer as he's planning to finish his BS closer to me.

[EdaxFlamma]

I feel like on some level you have to put yourself first, and your career first.

I can't agree with this more. I am in a similar situation myself or will be in the near future. This may come across as being rather cold and I am aware of that but then again it is only my (though shared) opinion. If you look at this problem as an opportunity to invest in your future there are two options, A. take the path of your preferred academic institution and try to work it out with the SO or B. take your path with your SO and work it out with your secondary choice of academic institution. In my opinion, one option presents the greatest chance of payoff with the least overall risk. I can't be the one to tell you which one that is for you though.

For my SO and myself we are both painful realists often bordering on the cynical at times. When we sat down and talked about this, we decided that it was best for each of us to take our own preferred academic paths and go the -albeit long- distance. Our reasoning was that A. it is doable, B. none of us feels cheated in the sense that we had to "sacrifice our dreams" C. deity forbid one of us gets killed in freak buffalo stampede, a car crash etc or there is a falling out between us, we both have invested in ourselves and will still be able to pursue our other passion in life, and D. we are secure enough with each other than it isn't as much of an emotional tax as it could be.

This may be a bit biased but again it works for us. I think the biggest thing is that YOU need to be happy with what's going on. These decisions although involving other people, in the end dictate your happiness.

[sacklunch]

Put yourself first. At least that's what I did. My SO and I were together two years, but recently split because of these same reasons. In the end I just KNEW I couldn't hack a long distance thing for the next 5-7 years. It's just too damned hard.

good luck.

[somanytictoc]

I think the great philosopher Beyonce said it best..."If you like it, then you shoulda put a ring on it."

I'm married, and my wife is willing to move ANYWHERE that accepts me. I've been with too many crazies in my life before I found her, and I can say this: if your SO isn't willing to listen to your concerns now, how will they react when you get your PhD and have to be willing to move anywhere in the country for a job? Boyfriends and girlfriends are temporary; your career is FOREVER (especially in academia). I would be scared stiff if my SO didn't provide 110% support for my career decision, especially if we weren't already married. This decision is too important to allow someone else to dramatically alter your choices, particularly if there's no promise of permanency in the relationship.

[Chande]

My fiance is willing to move wherever I decide to attend. He's not sure if he ever wants to go to grad school so he's going to start working and as far as we're both concerned, the most important thing is that we stay together. I feel very fortunate.

[CageFree]

My fiance was thinking of getting a Ph.D. but realized he's going to need a M.A. first. He told me to pursue my dream and he'd move and adjust to wherever we go. He'll work and start an evening M.A. in a couple of years... we should be done around the same time.

Meanwhile, my decision between two programs will depend on his ability to find work as a teacher in each area. Even if I'd gotten into Princeton I would have sacrificed that should he have been unable to find work out there. Our futures are tied, and that is perfectly OK with me.

If I didn't have such a supportive fiance, I doubt I would have applied at all... he really pushed me to think positively and pursue what I wanted.

[Hillary Emick]

I'm married, and my husband and I discussed each school/location at each step in the process from sending out exploratory emails to POI's to which schools to apply to, and he came with me to check out the area while I interviewed with my top choice. All of the places I applied were places he was happy to relocate to, and we'd already had solid plans of what he was going to be doing professionally for the next several years in the area of each school I applied at. It doesn't sound like your and your SO had those kinds of discussions or that level of commitment to the relationship.

You have to really have a heart-to-heart with your SO about your mutual commitment to your relationship and how to you are going to negotiate making these kinds of life decisions together if you both decide that you are in this for the long haul. I would personally be hesitant to put off pursuing my own dreams and what is in my own long term interests based on a romantic relationship without long term commitment.

[fanon_fanatic]

I am married, and understand the viewpoint of those putting their careers first. I think though that only you can really answer these questions for yourself, with your SO. My SO and I spent considerable time apart early in our relationship, so we know how to do the long distance thing. My spouse has never stood in the way of my dreams, however, I likewise have always been sensitive to the extenuating circumstances in our relationship. My SO has children from a previous marriage, so when I first started looking at programs I looked primarily within a certain driving distance of the kids, because I would never want my SO to be far from their kids. On the flip side, my SO felt it wasn't fair to ask me to stay within a certain distance of the kids if there were programs better suited to me, so that changed over time as well. One of the understandings we have is that wherever we go for school, my SO gets to make the next move/decision. My only request of course is that we move to a place that has colleges so I can apply for jobs.

I think part of this is about age too. I spent 7 years in the professional world prior to going back to get my MA, and now I'm applying for my Ph.D. I think time teaches you what is important to you in your life. For some people it's their career, and coming out of undergrad that's really all I cared about as well. As I've gotten older, the little things matter so much more, like having a partner that I can build a meaningful life with. This means that I make sacrifices in other places, but I can't tell you how beautiful it is to go home after a long day at the library and have a person to come home to who will give me a pep talk, a foot rub, or listen to the very boring (to them)/exciting (to me) research discoveries I made that day. For some people the research and their jobs are what truly make them happy, and if that's you, then you have to follow that value.

I think at the end of the day, it's important to realize that no situation is perfect, and at some point there will be some sacrifice or giving if you're in a relationship. It's impossible to be in a healthy relationship without compromise, but healthy relationships are also supportive ones, where each partner supports the others dreams. Sometimes that means living in different places for a time, or agreeing to go to a school that's less prestigious, or working in a job you hate for 5-7 years while the other finishes school.

Also, I encourage you to ask around at your programs (if doing Ph.D) to find out if you have to do your dissertation in residence. I have friends who have done their coursework and comps (in record time, like 2.5 years!) and then moved to finish their dissertation. This is probably more practical in the humanities, and is frowned upon in some programs. But if you're determined to finish your work, and you need that locational flexibility to keep peace at home, it's something else to think about. As many have already said, 2-3 years is much more palatable than 7 for any of us pondering a less-than-ideal location for graduate school.

Good luck! And don't stress about it. Just write about it in a journal and do some deep thinking/pondering about it. The answers will come if you give yourself the space to really think/feel on it.

[CarlieE]

Wow, I am so glad I found this thread... Thank you, OP and everyone else for sharing.

I suppose these these discussions all depend on our individual situations. I was in a LTR with someone for 9 years and never realized that he wasn't supportive of my PhD ambitions - we broke up last year when I finally realized he wasn't going to support me and wasn't going to move with me, or even try to make it work.

I'm now dating someone else, and we have a much more solid relationship. My current boyf graduated a year ahead of me, but took a year off and now we're both applying to grad schools. His GPA isn't great and he kind of messed up his last year of UG but he's taking grad classes now as a student-at-large...

I just got accepted into a PhD program with excellent funding and I told him when we began dating that I was going to apply to grad school and that I was NOT going to compromise if I got into said school. I did get into said school and I've accepted. My boyf is now applying to schools in that city and we're hoping for the best situation where we can both go to school, however, he has said that in the event he doesn't get in, he'll move with me and attend classes as a SAL to bump up his GPA and then try again in the Fall...

[Blurry]

Hi, all! I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this, so please bear with me if it's not--I'm sorry!

To my question--I've been accepted a few places with no notification of funding yet (but pretty sure I'll be funded at one of the schools), and four schools in limbo. None of the schools are "safety" schools for me, and I'd be excited to attend any of them, as long as I receive funding.

The problem: my SO of 3 years intends to apply to graduate school next season after not getting his ducks in a row this season. However, he majored in philosophy in UG, and hopes to get his doctorate in that. Considering the employment stats in philosophy, he'd need to go to a really well ranked school to ever hope of getting a tenured position. However, the schools I'm accepted to right now aren't great in philosophy, and he'd either have to deal with a lesser-ranked school or switch programs (English was his other major in UG). I know I haven't heard back from all of my schools yet, especially the ones he'd be excited to attend in philosophy, but how do I deal with this? I feel like long distance for 6-8 years would never work, but a long-standing bitterness for not being able to "follow his dreams" won't be great, either.

Ok--so this is hardly a question. I'm sorry. Thoughs? Anyone go through anything similar? Solutions I'm not thinking of?

Thanks!

I'm in philosophy as well. Is the placement of this school really bad?

Moreover, is your SO more interested in studying philosophy than in pursuing an academic career? I know of many people who did a PhD in philosophy and went on to have VERY fruitful careers in government and business.