Welcome to the 2012-2013 cycle

[irfannooruddin]

I recall a post a while ago where somebody said something to the effect of schools like Chicago and NYU don't bother accepting people they think will be admitted to higher ranked programs, even if they are a good fit. Is that actually true? Would a department take that sort of risk given the stochastic nature of the process?

 

Not a chance that this is true, especially for those two departments. Do we assign weights to the probabilities a given admit will come (i.e., do we have models of the yield?)? Of course, we do. But top departments believe they can compete and do.

[dack]

 recall a post a while ago where somebody said something to the effect of schools like Chicago and NYU don't bother accepting people they think will be admitted to higher ranked programs, even if they are a good fit. Is that actually true? Would a department take that sort of risk given the stochastic nature of the process?

 

Not sure about PhD programs or any schools in particular. But I do know its definitely true for law schools because the percentage of offered admisions accepted by students plays a role in some rankings formulas. I was told that by admissions committee members at a couple of mid-tier schools.

[eponine997]

I recall a post a while ago where somebody said something to the effect of schools like Chicago and NYU don't bother accepting people they think will be admitted to higher ranked programs, even if they are a good fit. Is that actually true? Would a department take that sort of risk given the stochastic nature of the process?

 

I'd be interested to know the context, and also who was making that claim, and if it were "schools like Chicago and NYU" or those schools specifically.  I could see reason for this if somehow an applicant made it clear the school was a "safety," though it seems like that would be difficult to gage, particularly at still relatively high ranked program (which both of those are).  

 

I'll confess, I worried about that with applications that ask what other programs you're applying to.  If the program is clearly towards the bottom of the programs I list (in terms of rankngs), are they going to assume I only look at them as a safety or think I'm delusional for applying to the other (more highly ranked) places?  In my mind, this is none of their business unless they are looking for some underlying logic of how I chose programs to gage my level of seriousness, focus, or knowledge of the discipline - which I hope was made clear by the rest of my file :/

 

Do our resident DGSs/faculty have any comments on this?  

 

Edit: Thanks irfannooruddin, hadn't seen your reply when I typed this

Edited March 5, 2013 by eponine997

[dack]

I'll confess, I worried about that with applications that ask what other programs you're applying to.  If the program is clearly towards the bottom of the programs I list (in terms of rankngs), are they going to assume I only look at them as a safety or think I'm delusional for applying to the other (more highly ranked) places?  In my mind, this is none of their business unless they are looking for some underlying logic of how I chose programs to gage my level of seriousness, focus, or knowledge of the discipline

 

Also hated those questions for the same reasons.

 

(particularly frustrating to those of us with one glaring weakness that thus applied to a wide variety of schools not knowing where we might land)

Edited March 5, 2013 by dack

[eponine997]

Also hated those questions for the same reasons.

 

(particularly frustrating to those of us with one glaring weakness that thus applied to a wide variety of schools not knowing where we might land)

That is me as well.  Though I applied to a variety of programs (in terms of ranking) based on research interest/places where I could put together a committee.  I knew almost exactly where I would land, but more importantly knew that I would never wonder "what if..." (as I would if I'd only applied to schools my advisor said were "reasonable" for me).  

[runner12]

I'd be interested to know the context, and also who was making that claim, and if it were "schools like Chicago and NYU" or those schools specifically. 

 

I don't recall that exact post or who made that claim, but I was accepted to NYU as well as "higher ranked" programs (Harvard, Yale, Princeton).  I applied to NYU because it was a good research interest fit.

Edited March 5, 2013 by runner12

[irfannooruddin]

I'll confess, I worried about that with applications that ask what other programs you're applying to.  If the program is clearly towards the bottom of the programs I list (in terms of rankngs), are they going to assume I only look at them as a safety or think I'm delusional for applying to the other (more highly ranked) places?  In my mind, this is none of their business unless they are looking for some underlying logic of how I chose programs to gage my level of seriousness, focus, or knowledge of the discipline - which I hope was made clear by the rest of my file :/

 

Do our resident DGSs/faculty have any comments on this?  

 

Edit: Thanks irfannooruddin, hadn't seen your reply when I typed this

 

I honestly don't think I looked at that question even once. A lot of our applicants left it blank; others wrote in a set of top-5 departments; yet others wrote in a greater variety of departments. I don't care (though I accept the notion that some might).

 

AFAIK, that question exists so the bean-counters in the graduate school can use the answers to generate a set of "peer" institutions, i.e., where do people applying to us also apply? It is not a factor in admissions.

 

Here's how I read the files:

1) Get basic info: name, previous ed institutions, GPA, GRE scores (the latter two simply to ascertain if you're above the arbitrary thresholds established by our graduate school since that has implications for funding, as BFB has explained previously).

2) Read personal statement closely; skim writing sample if provided (OSU doesn't require one)

3) If statement is any good, and if "fit" is plausible, glance at letters to see if any flags pop up.

4) Next file.

 

In short, for me, it's all about the statement and/or writing sample if one was provided. Frankly I found letters of rec fairly uninformative for the obvious selection bias reasons.

 

As my list formed, I had pretty strong priors as to who I thought would get a lot of attention and whom I thought we'd have the inside track on. But that didn't bear on my decision at all, and an admit's "gettability" never came up at the admission committee meeting.

[Guest hopefulfool]

I'd be interested to know the context, and also who was making that claim, and if it were "schools like Chicago and NYU" or those schools specifically.  I could see reason for this if somehow an applicant made it clear the school was a "safety," though it seems like that would be difficult to gage, particularly at still relatively high ranked program (which both of those are).  

To be honest, I don't remember any such post being made and I've been on here far too long and far too much. Also, "...who was making that claim..." doesn't really matter as the whole point of this thread (minus a few awesome people here) is anonymity.

We all know that people can be accepted at Princeton, but then rejected at Harvard, so I don't think we should be wasting our time and asking ourselves why we are accepted at higher ranked places, but then rejected or waitlisted at lower ranked ones (or vice versa). No matter how awesome your application is/was if the committee doesn't think you are a good fit you are not getting in. Competition for admissions is tough and if there is anything a committee can find against you, I am sure they will find it and hold it against you. 

I think we all need to chill out about Chicago and move on/just wait for them to come out with their decisions. At most it will be another week (I've already received all of my decisions from US schools so I am not trying to pick any battles). 

[BFB]

Not a chance that this is true, especially for those two departments. Do we assign weights to the probabilities a given admit will come (i.e., do we have models of the yield?)? Of course, we do. But top departments believe they can compete and do.

 

Confirmed, in spades. Not pursuing top applicants is a great way to ensure that you won't get them.

 

I also believe, very seriously, in fit over rank, even for a pretty big gap in rank.

[GopherGrad]

Here's how I read the files:

1) Get basic info: name, previous ed institutions, GPA, GRE scores (the latter two simply to ascertain if you're above the arbitrary thresholds established by our graduate school since that has implications for funding, as BFB has explained previously).

2) Read personal statement closely; skim writing sample if provided (OSU doesn't require one)

3) If statement is any good, and if "fit" is plausible, glance at letters to see if any flags pop up.

4) Next file.

 

Unless "any good" is a higher standard than it sounds at first blush, it's hard to figure out how you don't end up with a pile of 150ish similarly qualified applicants.

 

It's nice to know that my B in freshman bio from 14 years ago didn't much prejudice my file, but it sounds like I coulda spent a little more time and the gym and the bar than I did the last couple years.

[eponine997]

To be honest, I don't remember any such post being made and I've been on here far too long and far too much. Also, "...who was making that claim..." doesn't really matter as the whole point of this thread (minus a few awesome people here) is anonymity.

 

Apologies, next time skepticism will more appropriately (and bluntly) be expressed with: "That's bullsh1t! no one on here ever said that!"

 

In my mind it raised the question of how/why applications ask where else we are applying, it seemed worth discussing.  

[GopherGrad]

We all know that people can be accepted at Princeton, but then rejected at Harvard, so I don't think we should be wasting our time and asking ourselves why we are accepted at higher ranked places, but then rejected or waitlisted at lower ranked ones (or vice versa).

 

I hear you, especially to the extent that the "asking" is done through gritted teeth, but good luck getting people to give up trying to understand such an abiding mystery that seems to have such an effect on our futures.

 

I know this is true for me. I'm likely to go 1/13 this cycle, but I got into a shoot-the-moon program that fell relatively low of my own estimation of fit. I'm elated, humbled and honored by that result, but how such a great, competitive school saw fit to scoop me up when none of the other twelve had any interest baffles me and I would go some distance to be de-baffled.

[lisasimpson]

couple more gtown admits.....orz

[Jeremyrgs]

Apologies, next time skepticism will more appropriately (and bluntly) be expressed with: "That's bullsh1t! no one on here ever said that!"

 

In my mind it raised the question of how/why applications ask where else we are applying, it seemed worth discussing.  

 

Eponine, someone definitely said that stuff about Chicago and NYU and so on and so forth. You didn't imagine it.

[Guest hopefulfool]

I hear you, especially to the extent that the "asking" is done through gritted teeth, but good luck getting people to give up trying to understand such an abiding mystery that seems to have such an effect on our futures.

 

I know this is true for me. I'm likely to go 1/13 this cycle, but I got into a shoot-the-moon program that fell relatively low of my own estimation of fit. I'm elated, humbled and honored by that result, but how such a great, competitive school saw fit to scoop me up when none of the other twelve had any interest baffles me and I would go some distance to be de-baffled.

I am guilty of asking the question myself. I got rejected from a program that was (I thought) the perfect fit, but then waitlisted at a higher ranked program that specializes in IPE. I've never studied IPE in my life. Of course, I have now fallen in love with the program, so if I don't get off the list I will probably be devastated. 

Edited March 5, 2013 by hopefulfool

[eponine997]

Eponine, someone definitely said that stuff about Chicago and NYU and so on and so forth. You didn't imagine it.

 

Thanks though I'm not even the one claiming to have seen it.  It didn't sound right, but because someone MIGHT have said it on here, I was willing to bet it might have been taken out of context.  At the very least I meant to suggest that the person who did remember seeing it and was concerned enough to bring it up should be skeptical.  

[Guest hopefulfool]

Eponine, someone definitely said that stuff about Chicago and NYU and so on and so forth. You didn't imagine it.

I say "nay" you say "yay" at the end I don't give a __________ (fill in the blank). I don't think it matters. Just listen to whatever the Ohio Professors said because they obviously know more than any prospective student.

[news2yous]

Can anyone claim a Georgetown admit with funding for IR? I only see American and Theory so far.

[Jeremyrgs]

Thanks though I'm not even the one claiming to have seen it.  It didn't sound right, but because someone MIGHT have said it on here, I was willing to bet it might have been taken out of context.  At the very least I meant to suggest that the person who did remember seeing it and was concerned enough to bring it up should be skeptical.  

Sorry I miss understood your position. 

Haha, I saw that post a long time ago and it has stayed at the back of my mind because I had such a hard time believing that that could be true. This person needs to get on here and defend themselves!

[Jeremyrgs]

I say "nay" you say "yay" at the end I don't give a __________ (fill in the blank). I don't think it matters. Just listen to whatever the Ohio Professors said because they obviously know more than any prospective student.

 

Sorry all! I didn't mean to upset anyone. I just remembered hearing it because I thought it was very peculiar. And yes, all we need to do in this situation is listen to our resident experts (which it is incredibly nice to have around).

[USCoregonian]

Got rejected from GWU today. Getting in would've been nice, as I basically live down the street and the Foggy Bottom Whole Foods is pretty awesome. At any rate, assuming Texas finally gets around to telling me they've rejected me, that ends my application season, except for a couple MA programs I applied to as fall-back options.

 

I'm pretty thrilled to have gotten in somewhere after striking out last year. Not having a choice between programs doesn't really bother me as I only applied to places I was excited about (and no, I am not claiming that this is an original strategy) and started this application cycle knowing that all I needed was one admit to come out successful. 

 

I hope everyone who is still waiting for their first acceptance or is on a wait-list hears good news soon. Similarly, to all of you fortunate enough to have choices, I wish y'all the best of luck making your decisions. 

 

I'm in the same position except GWU is my only admit. Not having to choose and being finished is actually a bit liberating after months of worry. 

[Guest hopefulfool]

Sorry all! I didn't mean to upset anyone. I just remembered hearing it because I thought it was very peculiar. And yes, all we need to do in this situation is listen to our resident experts (which it is incredibly nice to have around).

I wasn't upset! I just have a bad way of putting things sometimes (people either think it is funny or completely rude and if you fall into the latter category I am sorry). Also, I thought the conversation that was going on was kind of pointless and I just wanted it to end.....

[Jeremyrgs]

I wasn't upset! I just have a bad way of putting things sometimes (people either think it is funny or completely rude and if you fall into the latter category I am sorry). Also, I thought the conversation that was going on was kind of pointless and I just wanted it to end.....

 

Fair enough. After our OSU heros settled the issue of whether such a statement would be true (whether or not it was said) the conversation was moot.

[dnexon]

I honestly don't think I looked at that question even once. A lot of our applicants left it blank; others wrote in a set of top-5 departments; yet others wrote in a greater variety of departments. I don't care (though I accept the notion that some might).

 

AFAIK, that question exists so the bean-counters in the graduate school can use the answers to generate a set of "peer" institutions, i.e., where do people applying to us also apply? It is not a factor in admissions.

 

Here's how I read the files:

1) Get basic info: name, previous ed institutions, GPA, GRE scores (the latter two simply to ascertain if you're above the arbitrary thresholds established by our graduate school since that has implications for funding, as BFB has explained previously).

2) Read personal statement closely; skim writing sample if provided (OSU doesn't require one)

3) If statement is any good, and if "fit" is plausible, glance at letters to see if any flags pop up.

4) Next file.

 

In short, for me, it's all about the statement and/or writing sample if one was provided. Frankly I found letters of rec fairly uninformative for the obvious selection bias reasons.

 

As my list formed, I had pretty strong priors as to who I thought would get a lot of attention and whom I thought we'd have the inside track on. But that didn't bear on my decision at all, and an admit's "gettability" never came up at the admission committee meeting.

 

Interesting. We tend to place much more value on recommendations. For us, the statement of purpose is more a signal of "does this person have any idea what it means to do political science" -- as is the writing sample -- as the correlation between statement of purpose and PhD topic is, shall we say, loose.

[dnexon]

Quick note: Georgetown's remaining acceptances went out at COB yesterday. 

 

Again, email me if you have any questions.