Fall 2014 Applicants

[A Finicky Bean]

Due to some unexpected developments, I may be moving around quite a bit over the next several months, and my current address may not reflect what it will be come February/March/April. How often do graduate programs send actual mail? I am under the impression that most letters relating to admissions and funding made online, but would like to know if anybody has had experience/knowledge to the contrary.

 

Is there someone whose address you can use as a permanent address in the meantime, in case something comes via mail? (parent, friend, other relative) I also think that most announcements first come via email and then via mail. But I could be wrong.

[thedig13]

Is there someone whose address you can use as a permanent address in the meantime, in case something comes via mail? (parent, friend, other relative) I also think that most announcements first come via email and then via mail. But I could be wrong.

I have used my brother's address as my "temporary" contact address, and although I trust him, I am also aware that many letters of admission need a response within a certain amount of time, and because he lives 400 miles away, there may be an issue with getting me the letters.

 

Long story short, I feel like it would be best if I received letters personally and/or via e-mail. At this point, I don't mind if the answers come via snail mail, I'd just like to know that I'll also be notified online so that I can have my based covered.

[jamc8383]

Most schools provide you with a system for tracking the status of your application which likewise provides an opportunity for you to update contact information. I don't know if this is the case for all programs. If not, you can always email graduate admissions departments when you know your new address and request that they update their records. I'm sure this sort of thing is not unprecedented.

You will be notified by email of admissions decisions and then, typically, more info--usually regarding funding or admitted students visits--will be sent out via snail mail. Others can chime in here is their experiences were different.

[New England Nat]

The guidelines that cover American graduate programs prevent nearly all of them from demanding a answer from admitted students before April 1st.  By two weeks into March you should have most of your decisions outside of wait lists.  It will be easier to manage.

[czesc]

Aaaaaaaah I had combed through my SOP a hundred times and I just realized a missed "your" in three SOPs I sent out! So it says "acceptance into doctoral program" instead of "acceptance into your doctoral program". AAAAAaaaaaah and one of those was to my first-choice school.

 

I thought I had caught everything. Nooooooo.

 

 

Yes, I am being dramatic but I feel like an asshole and there just is nothing I can do about it now. Over one damn word.

 

We're in the thick of it, my friends. Right in the thick of it.

 

I misspelled a potential advisor's name in one of my SOPs.

 

It was part of the application for the one school I did get accepted to.

 

If they like everything else about the application, it won't even be remotely dispositive. Breathe easy. 

Edited December 4, 2013 by czesc

[kdavid]

This is why I sent all applications at once and burnt the files afterwards.

 

I didn't want to look at anything after it had been sent out. I rather be completely ignorant to any mistakes I may have made.

 

Will make the next three months much easier to get through.

[A Finicky Bean]

I am coming down off of my freak-out fest. I have a more apps to put in (deadlines aren't here yet) but I am trying to just move forward. There are some applications due mid-January but I can't spread out this season that long, so I am going to get everything in by Dec. 15th. Ahhh, then I can just enjoy the holidays and early 2014, right?

 

Thanks, all, for the kinds words!!

Hang in there!

[New England Nat]

I put in all my applications by my first deadline.  It helped me have a good holiday season but by late January the waiting comes back. 

 

I'm going to re-iterate for folks that Princeton will send out decisions in the first ten days in Feb, and that a Princeton waitlist should be read as a rejection.  They take far more people than their minimum yield.  A tenured professor told me once that they view the waitlist as a way of telling a student that they believe their project is interesting. 

[lafayette]

I misspelled a potential advisor's name in one of my SOPs.

 

It was part of the application for the one school I did get accepted to.

 

If they like everything else about the application, it won't even be remotely dispositive. Breathe easy. 

 

I accidentally had extracurriculars as 'extracurriculurs' on my CV -- with the extracurricular being that I was a copy editor for an undergrad journal, ha! Went out to all but one of my schools, or the last, when I caught it. Didn't get into this last school, but got into several others that did see the mistake.

 

Also got into one school where I BUTCHERED (I still have no idea how I did it without catching it) a potential faculty member's name. I inverted his name AND gave him part of my intended advisor's name. I tried not to re-read my materials for this very reason, but I had an interview for this school so I was reviewing beforehand and nearly died. But I figured, they're interviewing me, I've got this far, so I didn't bring it up. And I got in. 

 

So, yes, breathe. I'm assuming most people have some mistake in their application somewhere or other. Some worse than others, true, but it doesn't mean you're automatically out ... 

 

Anyway, I remember this time of year last year, when I was applying, and it was so incredibly stressful. Best of luck to all of you; once you're in, it's a lot of work, but it's *so* much better. Just hang in there! You'll be casually looking back a year from now from some program too, I bet

Edited December 5, 2013 by lafayette

[Glo Fish]

Finished all my applications last week and I'm glad that process is all over. (Sigh of relief) All the letters have been sent, hopefully the GRE scores made it. Currently I'm an MA student in history at a Big Ten school. I applied to six schools. Hopefully, one lets me in.

[CageFree]

All it takes is one! Good luck!

[CageFree]

This is why I sent all applications at once and burnt the files afterwards.

 

I didn't want to look at anything after it had been sent out. I rather be completely ignorant to any mistakes I may have made.

 

Will make the next three months much easier to get through.

 

 

See, I didn't do that, and it's a good thing. I kept fixing up my applications as I was sending them. I'm actually kind of embarrassed by what I sent to the first two schools I applied to. The last application I sent was the on for the program I am in now... which was due over a month after the first ones. Had I sent them all at once, I probably would have struck out altogether.

 

As for mistakes... I made a big one when I contacted my adviser... had the wrong school name in the email. Her response was, "we all make mistakes."

[Henry Hudson]

Finished up my third today, Rutgers. I have intended to apply to one more, but might just call it quits. 

[levoyous]

I'm still communicating with POIs as I finish up statements, and have been surprised how many - almost all, actually - have said something to the effect of "the writing sample doesn't matter" or "no one cares about the writing sample." Now I wish I could have back those countless hours I spent worrying about using a philosophy sample for history programs! Just thought I'd share in case there's anyone else worried about theirs.

Edited December 9, 2013 by levoyous

[New England Nat]

I'm shocked that anyone would say the writing sample doesn't matter and that doesn't jive with what I've been told.

[dr. t]

I'm shocked that anyone would say the writing sample doesn't matter and that doesn't jive with what I've been told.

 

This wouldn't make sense to me either, unless they're talking about the GRE portion.

[ReallyNiceGuy]

NewEnglandNat and telkanuru matter more than me by virtue of the fact that both of them are in outstanding programs.

 

That said, I've probably talked to around 30 professors (including 4 from universities on your (levoyous) list) about this process at this point. While they've all had different things to say about this or that, there has been one constant in all of their remarks: the writing sample is what students should worry about and what they should spend their time on.

[thedig13]

I'm still communicating with POIs as I finish up statements, and have been surprised how many - almost all, actually - have said something to the effect of "the writing sample doesn't matter" or "no one cares about the writing sample." Now I wish I could have back those countless hours I spent worrying about using a philosophy sample for history programs! Just thought I'd share in case there's anyone else worried about theirs.

 

Yeah. I'm pretty sure you may have misheard that. Various professors have explicitly told me that the statement of purpose and writing sample are thoroughly scrutinized and that a single error on either one can make or break an application.

 

I think, when your professors say that the "writing sample doesn't matter," they may have been referring to the writing portion of the GRE. I have heard some professors tell me that they only really look at GRE writing/verbal scores if the statement of purpose or writing sample fails to impress and the committee needs some other way to determine the applicant's writing abilities. Of course, at the most respected programs, if your writing sample or statement of purpose fails to impress immediately, that would probably kill your application right there anyway, so in that sense, I suppose the GRE writing section doesn't matter.

 

All of this, of course, is speculation. I am aware that different programs place varying levels of importance on the GRE, and use/interpret the GRE differently in the admissions process. I do, however, stand by my statement that the writing sample and the statement of purpose are critical to the application, because they're the only components of the application that offers firsthand evidence of your writing abilities (or lack thereof), and because every professor I've talked to has told me that a bad writing sample or statement of purpose will kill an application.

[levoyous]

I'm not disputing you, just reporting what I've heard, and these are all from people in Ivy League history departments. Several described their process of reviewing applications, and it was all some version of: they focus most intensely on the LORs and the statement, and then potentially read the first couple of pages of the sample if the applicant seems strong. When I asked for advice about which out of several samples to use, the only responses I got were "that barely matters," or "you don't need to worry about it."

 

It's possible this is because I'm already an accomplished graduate student, and they assume from my communication (or in some cases my writing they have already read) that it won't matter for me, personally? I could see it being much more urgent that an undergraduate have a stellar sample. But I don't mean to suggest this is universal advice; everyone should certainly go by what advice their POIs gave them, not what they read on here.

 

PS. Just saw thedig13's comment above, and they were definitely not referring to the GRE. I would say in general my advisers and a couple of POIs have been dismissive of the "shibboleths" of application advice, ie, the idea that GRE scores are super important or that a single typo is going to get you rejected (a faux pas like cutting and pasting the wrong school name, or mentioning a professor who's left, is of course a different story).

Edited December 9, 2013 by levoyous

[Sigaba]

I'm not disputing you, just reporting what I've heard, and these are all from people in Ivy League history departments. Several described their process of reviewing applications, and it was all some version of: they focus most intensely on the LORs and the statement, and then potentially read the first couple of pages of the sample if the applicant seems strong. When I asked for advice about which out of several samples to use, the only responses I got were "that barely matters," or "you don't need to worry about it."

 

It's possible this is because I'm already an accomplished graduate student, and they assume from my communication (or in some cases my writing they have already read) that it won't matter for me, personally? I could see it being much more urgent that an undergraduate have a stellar sample. But I don't mean to suggest this is universal advice; everyone should certainly go by what advice their POIs gave them, not what they read on here.

 

 

IMO, leyvous's comments make sense if one takes into account how busy professors can be with their own work ("publish or perish"). It would be very ... pragmatic ... to reason that one could gauge an aspiring graduate student's potential from the LORs and the SOP and ... inconvenient ... to plunge into a lengthy writing assignment that might require a level of intellectual engagement that, from a professor's stand point, might be better devoted to more immediate tasks. (IME, a professor who was one of The Powers That Be in my department did not read my primary writing sample--I sent in two--until my second year in the program.)

[TMP]

levoyous, I just about almost hit my head on the keyboard reading your last message.  Like most people on this board, you need to learn some humility. Ivy League, schvy-League.  Everyone is accomplished here.  If everyone wasn't so accomplished here, then competition for PhD programs would be different, wouldn't it?  I know I sound a bit snarky, but you ain't going to get respect if you enter in a PhD program with that attitude and professor pick up on that.

 

NEN and I have applied to PhD programs with MAs under our belts.  Indeed, our writing sample matter because it could potentially serve as a springboard for the dissertation project that the POIs might have to supervise.  (Many times, MA students use their thesis as samples and they often spin into a dissertation.)

 

At the same time, professors expect graduate students to be stronger researchers and writers than undergrads so they may not read as much, especially if the first few pages are solid.  Undergrads don't have the same level of skills and it may take a bit more for professors to figure out if they have the chops.  I know from my own experiences of reading my peers' research seminar papers- both at pre-ABD and ABD levels.

 

But they will read them at some point.  Everyone should take care of their writing samples and treat them seriously. My current adviser and other readers of my application in my program definitely did.

 

However, I do get the point of those professors you speak of, levoyous.  As my adviser said to me once early in my first  year, "I'm really glad that you know how to read at graduate level.  If you didn't, we'd have a big problem here.  Your writing isn't great but that's something that will always be worked on and I'm fine with it."

 

Still, the stronger you are as a writer, the better.

[Sigaba]

levoyous, I just about almost hit my head on the keyboard reading your last message.  Like most people on this board, you need to learn some humility. Ivy League, schvy-League.  Everyone is accomplished here.  If everyone wasn't so accomplished here, then competition for PhD programs would be different, wouldn't it?  I know I sound a bit snarky, but you ain't going to get respect if you enter in a PhD program with that attitude and professor pick up on that.

 

 

FWIW, I don't find levoyous's controversial IRT humility.

 

I read them as attempts to share information. By my reading, the reference to "Ivy League history departments" was intended to demonstrate that the information is coming from departments that take the process as seriously as any other.

 

Moreover, I read the comment about being an "accomplished graduate student" as a qualifier indicating that applicants coming from a graduate program may be held to a different standard than ones applying right out of college.

 

My $0.02./YMMV.

[levoyous]

Sigaba's interpretation of my comments is exactly right; I may have sounded arrogant, but I am not overconfident (or confident at all). In fact, I've been (and remain, despite these profs' comments), concerned about my sample. I'm applying to a number of non-history programs precisely because of that concern. I simply wanted to report what my experience had been, and only mention their credentials and my own to indicate that these are serious people, and that their advice to me might have been out of the ordinary. 

 

I also think Sigaba's earlier comment is a plausible interpretation of my situation; it has gradually dawned on me that some of the advice I have gotten has been motivated by stressed, overworked professors wanting to do less work. Of course people place very different emphasis on what's important, so I wanted to remind people that you never know. This process just made me skeptical of relying on formulaic advice, or trying to use formulas to guess on one's chances. You just never know.

Edited December 9, 2013 by levoyous

[New England Nat]

I can't speak for the entire Ivy League but I know first hand about how my department operates and reasonably well about three others.  The writing sample and statement of purpose are what matters.  If the writing sample is not good you are in deep trouble no matter how interesting your project is to the faculty.

 

As one faculty member explicitly described it to me, she started reading an application with the writing sample.  If she couldn't make it all the way through the writing sample she didn't read either the SOP or the Letters of Rec.  That she read them in order Writing Sample, SOP, and Letters of Rec.  All Princeton faculty are expected to read all their applications, I've never seen them discuss them but believe me the weeks they're doing it are slightly fascinating as they each move to each other's offices to talk about this or that application. 

 

The process may be as was described to you at other places, but not at mine and not at the other ivy departments I know well.  And I think it would be impossible to know ahead of time if the department is a "writing sample is everything" department.  If Professor Plum is still around I'm curious what he/she would say.

 

Undergraduates and MA applicants are held to the same standard, which explains why the Princeton cohorts of my generation are very heavy with existing masters degrees.  My terminal masters, unlike TMP's to be honest, is from a forgettable department in a place you do not think great scholarship when you hear the city name.  So the pedigree wasn't what got me in.

 

In the strongest possible terms I would urge people to devote as much effort as possible to crafting your SOP and polishing your writing sample.

[levoyous]

I can't speak for the entire Ivy League but I know first hand about how my department operates and reasonably well about three others.  The writing sample and statement of purpose are what matters.  If the writing sample is not good you are in deep trouble no matter how interesting your project is to the faculty.

 

Obviously you're correct - the sample should be as good as humanly possible. Another thing I should have specified in my case is that the sample question for me wasn't bad sample vs. good sample, it was strong non-history sample vs. rushed-probably-not-quite-there history sample. Due to various academic/life circumstances, I had to choose between spending my time on rushing (possibly hopelessly) to complete a new sample, or devoting it to deep research on departments and strong SOPs. Every one of my advisers and POIs recommended the latter. So the impetus for my comments was that, in my specific circumstances, I wish I'd worried less about doing a new sample and gotten an earlier start on the other elements.

 

It's possible, even likely, that using a non-history sample will hurt me, but I won't be sunk because my sample is bad. That's something different departments feel differently about, so it's hard to know; I look forward to reporting back on the results.

Edited December 10, 2013 by levoyous