Fat-Friendly Campuses?

[Guest Gnome Chomsky]

Some great posts here from future researchers in the life sciences that not only ignore research in body weight and obesity, but show an astounding lack of empathy. I am so excited for the future of medicine and related fields.

I'll buy you a Dr. Phil shirt to sport with your fancy mangina.

[LittleDarlings]

Well, my reputation is almost 300. At least it was about a week ago. I could care less about it. I just find it funny when the same person down votes everything I say and I've never had the pleasure of conversing with them. I've been seeing your down votes for a while. And you didn't just make it 10 right now. It was almost 10 before you went on your little craze. And I hardly mention my voting. In fact, I can't remember the last time I have. I've mentioned people unfairly down voting Loric when he has given some great advice, and Pinkster/CorruptedInnocence/LittleDarlings up voting all her own posts after she received a near -400 rating after some of her ignorant posts in her husband/abortion threads. I hardly mention my own down votes. I mention when people like Sigaba stalk me, and a few other people.

I love that I'm mentioned in a post I haven't even looked at. You have some nerve talking about people stalking you. You literally find all of the posts I make to down vote them. Do you see me complaining? No, because I say what I want on this forum. I don't care if people like it or dislike it or whatever. You seem to be the only one who is overly concerned with votes. I actually think it would hs kind of funny to get to 1000 dislikes, oh maybe a million!! That would be hilarious.

Btw I never made an abortion thread so maybe you need to go back and check. I mentioned abortion in a post not belonging to me. Lets not talk shit when we don't know what we are talking about.

Edited March 21, 2014 by LittleDarlings

[LittleDarlings]

Think she'll ever settle on a pseudonym?

I actually won't but thanks for the concern

Hey maybe I will change it again! Yay me

Edited March 21, 2014 by LittleDarlings

[LittleDarlings]

That's a really upbeat view of how disability is approached in schools. I have a friend transferring from a CC to a 4 yr college and she frequently needs to use a wheelchair. She texted me yesterday that the college she was looking at had little to nothing in the way of a DRC for physical disabilities and that the tour group left behind her and her father while they were trying to navigate with her chair. 

 

For those whom walking is not easy, you can't simply just say, "I'm sure they'll be accommodating!" because they may, in fact, be the opposite of that.

I can actually relate to that having a disability, some school or just less handicap friendly. My undergrad school was a commuter friendly school so I was always able to park and walk a few feet to my classes. The grad schools I have applied to don't have that and it is hard for me to walk far distances, I can do it but it might take longer. I wish more campuses were handicap friendly

[Mordekaiser]

Believe it or not--- and I know this is going to come as a shock to some--- not every fat person is fat through fault of their own.  I know, right?

 

There is this med they call the "dreaded pred":

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2193172/Prescription-drugs-Lupus-make-Napa-California-Jena-Graves-obese.html

 

This happened to my wife, who has taken massive doses of prednisone for her Crohn's disease.  It irritates me to no end that people will assume she's fat because she's just lazy or makes bad choices.  Never assume.  You don't know what's going on with the other person.

 

ETA: Now me, I'm fat through fault of my own.

Dude that is like a small percentage of people.

The number of people who are fat because of them selves is much higher. Fat people can't blame anyone else - they need to take responsibility. When they become so big they can't fit in a seat or walk a couple miles, they need to re-evaluate their life. I dont even understand how people get so fat without feeling ashamed or looking at their health.

 

People like your wife makeup a small portion, and I bet her being fat can still be controlled. There is something called Thermodynamics. She won't be randomly becoming fat if she isn't eating anything.

[LittleDarlings]

Dude that is like a small percentage of people.

The number of people who are fat because of them selves is much higher. Fat people can't blame anyone else - they need to take responsibility. When they become so big they can't fit in a seat or walk a couple miles, they need to re-evaluate their life. I dont even understand how people get so fat without feeling ashamed or looking at their health.

 

People like your wife makeup a small portion, and I bet her being fat can still be controlled. There is something called Thermodynamics. She won't be randomly becoming fat if she isn't eating anything.

I feel like you're being kind of harsh. I mean I agree people should try to be healthier but it is kind of mean to make someone feel like shit for something I'm sure they wish they could change. It is easy to say work out and eat healthy but healthy food is more expensive than unhealthy. I'm not trying to jump down your throat I just feel bad that someone might feel like crap about something they can't help. Been there, done that, it breaks you down a little.

[Mordekaiser]

I feel like you're being kind of harsh. I mean I agree people should try to be healthier but it is kind of mean to make someone feel like shit for something I'm sure they wish they could change. It is easy to say work out and eat healthy but healthy food is more expensive than unhealthy. I'm not trying to jump down your throat I just feel bad that someone might feel like crap about something they can't help. Been there, done that, it breaks you down a little.

What? Why would I feel bad?

Do you feel bad for people who smoke cigarettes and get cancer? Do you feel bad for people who are alcoholics and get liver failure? Do you feel bad for people who have no self control and eat? Do you feel bad for people too lazy to exercise atleast a few hours per week? 

 

Its their fault for getting fat. And don't kid me about healthy food being expensive. People just refuse to eat healthy food since it "tastes bad", not because they can't afford it. Things liked canned beans, chicken breast, large bags of frozen vegetables, etc. are really cheap if you buy in bulk. I am not being harsh - just realistic. If you feel bad for people who are fat because they are too lazy to change, might as well feel bad for people who are smoking and have health problems.

[unbrokenthread]

Mordekaiser, I'm interpreting this as you saying that since you think most people are fat because of their own actions, it's a) a character flaw, b ) okay to judge them for it and c) it's OK to cast blanket judgments on the whole group, even though some of them have little to no control over their weight even with medical supervision? So therefore it's okay to stigmatize people who are fat through no fault of their own just because other people might be at "fault"?

Just checking, am I understanding you correctly?

Edited March 21, 2014 by fuzzylogician
Fixed numbering turnng into smiley!

[TakeruK]

What? Why would I feel bad?

Do you feel bad for people who smoke cigarettes and get cancer? Do you feel bad for people who are alcoholics and get liver failure? Do you feel bad for people who have no self control and eat? Do you feel bad for people too lazy to exercise atleast a few hours per week? 

 

Its their fault for getting fat. And don't kid me about healthy food being expensive. People just refuse to eat healthy food since it "tastes bad", not because they can't afford it. Things liked canned beans, chicken breast, large bags of frozen vegetables, etc. are really cheap if you buy in bulk. I am not being harsh - just realistic. If you feel bad for people who are fat because they are too lazy to change, might as well feel bad for people who are smoking and have health problems.

 

I think your viewpoint here is a little naive. I don't actually know you but I feel like your statements are showing that you don't understand the nature of addiction. A person can be completely aware of their bad choices, and hate themselves for making them, but at the same time, cannot control their compulsion to do so. A lot of poor nutrition choices can also be linked to poor education and bad habits forming during childhood. 

 

You are right that people with these problems can seek help and do something about it. But the way you are saying it is unnecessarily harsh and would not actually help a person with these issues. And it's totally possible to feel bad for someone who is making bad life choices even if it is their "fault". I have relatives who smoke and it's hurting their health. Do I think "Hah! You deserve to get lung cancer and die because you are an idiot!!!!"? No! Even if they have made bad choices, I still care for them as a fellow human being and (in this case) as part of my family. I wouldn't enable their bad choices and I would still encourage them to think about their health in the future and help them quit if they want to. Having the attitude you express in the posts above would not help them get healthier and really would not do any good at all.

Edited March 21, 2014 by TakeruK

[ExponentialDecay]

I'll buy you a Dr. Phil shirt to sport with your fancy mangina.

 

bro, you're not even in the life sciences. i'm not sure you have talking privileges in sexual organ categorization.

[ExponentialDecay]

 Fat people can't blame anyone else - they need to take responsibility. 

 

Wow wow wow. Put down the sacrificial knife and step away from the scapegoat. The poor girl didn't murder someone. She didn't sell out your best mammoth scout-out to a rival tribe. She's just fat. In my country, people are constitutionally entitled to being whatever body size they are without fearing criminal prosecution. Or are you one of those gross liberals that want to control what brand of twinkie we feed our kids???

[geographyrocks]

People like your wife makeup a small portion, and I bet her being fat can still be controlled. There is something called Thermodynamics. She won't be randomly becoming fat if she isn't eating anything.

Well, there you go.  Someone has FINALLY stepped up and CURED the obesity problem in the US.  You can just STOP EATING!

 

Seriously though, the misinformation from people on this thread is appalling.  Yes, there is a large percentage of the population who would lose quite a bit of weight if they walked more or ate less.  Unfortunately, there are also those who have absolutely no control due to thyroid issues, stress, genetics, etc.  Obesity is a hot topic so there is A LOT of research out there.  It turns out that weight loss and gain isn't just a matter of eat or don't eat.  So if you wanna yell at the 350 lb guy who's driving down the road with no hands on the wheel because they're both stuffed into a KFC bucket of chicken (true story), feel free.  I have!  But making a blanket statement like that shows your ignorance. 

[EmperorRyker]

Well, there you go.  Someone has FINALLY stepped up and CURED the obesity problem in the US.  You can just STOP EATING!

 

Seriously though, the misinformation from people on this thread is appalling.  Yes, there is a large percentage of the population who would lose quite a bit of weight if they walked more or ate less.  Unfortunately, there are also those who have absolutely no control due to thyroid issues, stress, genetics, etc.  Obesity is a hot topic so there is A LOT of research out there.  It turns out that weight loss and gain isn't just a matter of eat or don't eat.  So if you wanna yell at the 350 lb guy who's driving down the road with no hands on the wheel because they're both stuffed into a KFC bucket of chicken (true story), feel free.  I have!  But making a blanket statement like that shows your ignorance. 

 

It actually is. The motivation behind why someone overindulges and the reasons why certain people have a more thrifty metabolism can of course differ, so there is a component that will affect just how much you can eat to stay at a healthy weight. But it does boil down to thermodynamics in the end. And a lot of those issues impacting the metabolism can a) be treated or mitigated, or only "decrease" the metabolism by, say, 20 - 30%, which I think is still alright as far as being able to eat reasonably normally. In any case, it's clear that Mordekaiser was exaggerating and that people can still eat and lose weight. Brains and other organs still require a certain minimum amount of energy to keep working. So saying people have no control is an excuse. I understand psychological factors might make it hard to do so, but ultimately they can control their weight.

[TakeruK]

EmperorRyker, I understand what you are getting at in the earlier part of your post (obviously if a person does not eat, they would gain less weight than if they did eat, no matter what other circumstances are at play). But let's move beyond that because I think this sentence:

 

I understand psychological factors might make it hard to do so, but ultimately they can control their weight.

 

is actually incorrect. Psychological factors don't simply "make it harder" for someone to do (or not do) something. I feel that statements like this imply that people suffering from mental health issues are "weak" because they are not able to overcome the "extra difficulty" that the psychological factors add. I think this is both incorrect and insensitive. It also implies that if you are facing psychological issues and you cannot overcome it, then it is your fault. That is not true. I think saying something like that would be equivalent to saying that it is my fault that my arm bones were not strong enough to not break when I fell off my bike!

[EmperorRyker]

EmperorRyker, I understand what you are getting at in the earlier part of your post (obviously if a person does not eat, they would gain less weight than if they did eat, no matter what other circumstances are at play). But let's move beyond that because I think this sentence:

 

 

is actually incorrect. Psychological factors don't simply "make it harder" for someone to do (or not do) something. I feel that statements like this imply that people suffering from mental health issues are "weak" because they are not able to overcome the "extra difficulty" that the psychological factors add. I think this is both incorrect and insensitive. It also implies that if you are facing psychological issues and you cannot overcome it, then it is your fault. That is not true. I think saying something like that would be equivalent to saying that it is my fault that my arm bones were not strong enough to not break when I fell off my bike!

 

Yeah, ultimately it's all fuzzy anyway. You can't tell whether a person is just not trying hard enough or actually can't do it. But then what does "actually can't do it" mean, right? In a way you're right, but on the other hand, due to there not being a clear dividing line in matters like these, we can explain away any (and I mean any) behavior with saying it was the psychological factors that caused it (because ultimately, that's true). I just drew an arbitrary line, and you can choose to draw it elsewhere. That's fine with me.

 

I'm not sure what you're saying here, though: "obviously if a person does not eat, they would gain less weight than if they did eat, no matter what other circumstances are at play". They wouldn't gain less weight. They would lose weight.

 

What's your opinion on stuff like crime, though? Only focusing on the choice and not the consequences, can a murderer prevented himself from not killing a person? Or perhaps a slightly different question, was it his fault he didn't?

[gr8pumpkin]

Dude that is like a small percentage of people.

The number of people who are fat because of them selves is much higher. Fat people can't blame anyone else - they need to take responsibility. When they become so big they can't fit in a seat or walk a couple miles, they need to re-evaluate their life. I dont even understand how people get so fat without feeling ashamed or looking at their health.

 

People like your wife makeup a small portion, and I bet her being fat can still be controlled. There is something called Thermodynamics. She won't be randomly becoming fat if she isn't eating anything.

 

You ignorant putz, prednisone *increases your appetite*.  If you haven't been there, then STFU.  Of course people on pred are a smaller percentage.  The point is, you can't assume.  

 

Yeah, I've been living with my wife and her chronic condition for twenty years.  But you're the expert, because there's something called thermodynamics.  What a schmuck.  Downvote me twenty times.  I don't care.

Edited March 21, 2014 by gr8pumpkin

[m-ttl]

This forum has a terrifying lack of empathy, and understanding of BASIC concepts regarding food politics, body politics, disabilities and general human decency. 

 

Seriously I'm beginning to think they should require a basic sociology class, something that covers poverty, disability, race -- certainly maybe some of you can try looking up "food deserts". 

 

Or....basic economics: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128621057

 

It doesn't even matter if the OP is serious or not, and what the cause of their weight is. Personally I'd rather be around someone who "chose" to be fat than a bunch of people who choose to be assholes. 

Edited March 21, 2014 by m-ttl

[ExponentialDecay]

It seems to me that the distinguishing characteristic of a good scholar is professional integrity. Professional integrity would not allow the good scholar to make unsubstantiated claims, ignore or misuse evidence, engage in excessive sophistry, avoid answering the question at hand. Y'all are fucking graduate students. Why are you making up arbitrary percentages and throwing around concepts you haven't seen since 9th grade physics? Metabolism research is not your subfield. I suspect it is not even your discipline. Why are you opening your traps (without a single cue from the OP), when what you say can neither prove nor illuminate the subject at hand or the subject that you so eagerly try to foist upon this topic? You have done 0 research on the topic of obesity, body weight, and metabolism. You have read 0 peer-reviewed articles. You vehemently refuse, above all, to listen to anybody who does not agree with your viewpoint. Your knowledge of this topic is equivalent to that which is expected of a first-semester freshman. I am sure that you, like the freshman, have many bright ideas and exhibit potential. But right now, you have nothing of substance to say. 

 

So shut the fuck up and sit the fuck down.

[EmperorRyker]

This forum has a terrifying lack of empathy, and understanding of BASIC concepts regarding food politics, body politics, disabilities and general human decency. 

 

Seriously I'm beginning to think they should require a basic sociology class, something that covers poverty, disability, race -- certainly maybe some of you can try looking up "food deserts". 

 

Or....basic economics: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128621057

 

It doesn't even matter if the OP is serious or not, and what the cause of their weight is. Personally I'd rather be around someone who "chose" to be fat than a bunch of people who choose to be assholes. 

 

I find it funny and ironic you start insulting people who have not done thrown a single insult, and then call them assholes.

[EmperorRyker]

It seems to me that the distinguishing characteristic of a good scholar is professional integrity. Professional integrity would not allow the good scholar to make unsubstantiated claims, ignore or misuse evidence, engage in excessive sophistry, avoid answering the question at hand. Y'all are fucking graduate students. Why are you making up arbitrary percentages and throwing around concepts you haven't seen since 9th grade physics? Metabolism research is not your subfield. I suspect it is not even your discipline. Why are you opening your traps (without a single cue from the OP), when what you say can neither prove nor illuminate the subject at hand or the subject that you so eagerly try to foist upon this topic? You have done 0 research on the topic of obesity, body weight, and metabolism. You have read 0 peer-reviewed articles. You vehemently refuse, above all, to listen to anybody who does not agree with your viewpoint. Your knowledge of this topic is equivalent to that which is expected of a first-semester freshman. I am sure that you, like the freshman, have many bright ideas and exhibit potential. But right now, you have nothing of substance to say. 

 

So shut the fuck up and sit the fuck down.

 

Personally, I've read at least a hundred, but I don't know about the others. I also threw around concepts that I did see since 9th grade physics? I learned that they apply in this case.

 

So how does that one go again? Let he who is without sin cast the first stone?

 

In any case, we should stop this debate, because no matter what our opinion on the topic of fat people being fat by choice or not, this is not what the OP was looking for.

Edited March 22, 2014 by EmperorRyker

[ExponentialDecay]

Oh, do you model biochemical reactions in the human body? My Harvard interviewer did that. He also did some evolution modeling. However, he was a physicist, so I suppose he was taught that bodies are not closed systems.

 

Surprising, how different methodologies, terminologies, and contents are in different disciplines. But I bet you think that Lagrangians are the same thing in math, physics, and economics, too

[Guest Gnome Chomsky]

Oh, do you model biochemical reactions in the human body? My Harvard interviewer did that. He also did some evolution modeling. However, he was a physicist, so I suppose he was taught that bodies are not closed systems.

 

Surprising, how different methodologies, terminologies, and contents are in different disciplines. But I bet you think that Lagrangians are the same thing in math, physics, and economics, too

I hope you don't talk like that when you're out in public. 

 

You remind me of the pony-tailed guy in Good Will Hunting. 

[DropTheBase]

You remind me of the pony-tailed guy in Good Will Hunting. 

 

I was thinking the same thing!!! hahaha

[EmperorRyker]

Oh, do you model biochemical reactions in the human body? My Harvard interviewer did that. He also did some evolution modeling. However, he was a physicist, so I suppose he was taught that bodies are not closed systems.

 

Oh, I see. Your point is that fat people somehow accrue mass out of thin air. Got ya' But it seems to me that was the whole point of the argument. That since bodies aren't closed systems, people are fat because they ingest and make out of thin air (or ether, probably not air) more mass than they excrete or waste in other forms of "energy out".

[ExponentialDecay]

Since bodies aren't closed systems, there is no a priori argument that all energy that goes in must go out. Friction, bro.