Has your advisor ever told you to "quit" grad school?

[Francophile1]

Wondering if any of you came across this?

In early stage of graduate degree, advisor's harsh words...anyone came across this?

[bsharpe269]

no that sounds horrible... under what circumstances did that happen?

[threading_the_neidl]

One of my current labmates had a particularly rough rotation where the PI told her he didn't think she would graduate, wasn't fit for a PhD, etc. She vented, we all supported her and now she's doing really great work in our lab. The other PI is polite to her now, but I think he must have realized how inappropriate it was and that he could have gotten in some hot water had she mentioned it to certain other faculty.

It happens, sometimes people are incredibly closed minded and rude. Let it go and take the path you want.

[St Andrews Lynx]

I bet that some PIs think that kind of talk is "motivational" for the students. 

There is a difference between a PI venting their own anger - staying stuff they don't completely believe - and a PI who really wants you out of their lab. In the latter I would take the hint and exit, because it isn't going to be good for either of us if I stay. 

[juilletmercredi]

Er, no.

 

These could be harsh words uttered in anger, for sure.  It could be a PI who doesn't like you for weird reasons, a PI who doesn't know how to motivate graduate students, or just a generally terrible PI who likes to annoy and terrorize his students.

 

But...depending on how it's said, it could also be decent advice that was worded awkwardly.

[Kamisha]

That advisor sounds like a real douchebag. 

[rising_star]

This hasn't happened to me but it has happened to someone I know. I think that PI is a sadistic person though.

[i.am.me]

Those words would shatter my self-confidence and overall worth as a human being.   And then I'd get over it. 

 

Actually, when I was applying to grad school, I had an advisor that told me that I'm not "academically rigorous" enough to apply to the program that I am currently in...and funded. 

 

Now, I have only heard of PIs that push their students on to other professors after having accepted them into the program (irresponsible). 

[lifealive]

Not me, personally, but someone with whom I'm very close. She got a different adviser.

 

Mine never said that to me specifically, but they did tell me that I did an awful job on my exam. It did wonders for my confidence! But I recovered.

[danieleWrites]

Never happened to me. I did know someone in an MA program that had this advice from an adviser. It went down like this: the adviser scheduled an appointment with my friend-quaintance after mid-terms and before advising, on a Friday afternoon, and during this meeting suggested that he might not be suited to the graduate program and had he considered what he could do with his current degree, or what he might do with a bachelor's in an information science field in addition to his current BA. According to him, the adviser was an evil biscuit who got off on harassing the men in the program because she was a rabid feminazi man-hater. After he fail!bombed the next semester, she helped him get into a BS program in another university. He makes apps now. And a lot more money than the feminazi does.

I bring this up because of the devil's advocate thing. Not everyone is suited to a graduate program, or the work people who actually graduate do, or the field they've chosen, or whatever.

Just because an adviser is mean, sadistic, and jerkish doesn't mean they're wrong any more than an adviser being supportive, compassionate, and helpful means they're right. I don't know if my sorta-buddy would have failed if he didn't have the adviser's "you can't do this" stuck in his head. I don't know if he would have succeeded. By bringing it up to him, we'll never know, really. There are tons of people who fail/quit grad school without faculty intervention. There are tons of people who wish they had quit, or that their adviser had spoken up years ago, before they'd invested that much time and money.

Considering my app-making pal's situation, I would likely advise the grad student to visit the campus counseling center to get their emotional equilibrium back, inasmuch as possible. Nothing can take your feet out from under you quite like an adviser or mentor turning on you. Once there's some emotional stability, I'd likely turn to a faculty member familiar with my work and solicit some criticism (what are my weaknesses? strengths?). Then I'd make a rational decision about my future based on evidence. Ah, who am I kidding. I'd laugh in my adviser's doubting face and likely critique their work. What can I say? I'm old and I over-value my own opinion.

[Francophile1]

Interesting to hear this happened. And although i would rather not disclose too many details here. I feel like I agree with most of you. It is a tactic to maybe get you to improve but at the same time i find it too harsh.

[Queen of Kale]

I feel like it happens a lot in my program but usually in a half joking & trying to motivate the student via getting their back against the wall. This technique really seems to work for very few students so I don't know why its popular other than perhaps it's been passed down through the academic generations where those who responded well were more likely to stay in academia and later employ the technique themselves. It's very silly. Also, it reminds me of the movie "Wild hearts can't be broken" but really just sliding that movie to struggling students would be a thousand times more inspirational than berating them.

[Pretty_Penny]

I'm sorry that this has happened to you. This did happen to me, and not in a joking way. My ex-advisor seemed to think that I was intellectually capable of completing a graduate program, but not emotionally capable. She told me I needed to get over my "fear of ambiguity" and that some people can't. "That's the reason why not everyone has a PhD." I was and still am, to be honest, kind of an emotional, neurotic mess. However, I became that way after dealing with this bullying from my advisor for months (you can see my other threads for a summary of that). It's hard not to let harsh words like that affect you. I, for one, have decided to take a leave of absence to reconsider if I want to be part of a culture that allows behavior like this from people in positions of power, but I admire the people who can use this as motivation. To me it is incredibly demotivating.

[danieleWrites]

I admire your intelligent and rational approach to problem solving, Penny. I sincerely hope that your leave brings you the best result for you. Though I doubt it, hopefully the program you're critiquing will reconsider their Full Metal Jacket approach to pedagogy.

[valerie_h]

Yes and he did it in the second semester of my 3rd year of studies. The original reason for the meeting was that a student complained about being told he had exceeded the number of absences and his attendance was no longer required since he would automatically fail the course. I had used this policy at two other schools with no problems from administrators and the number of absences is generous. Plus, I told this student in the beginning, after he missed the first exam, that perhaps this was not the right time for him to take my course. So, I was asking for an official attendance policy for our department and he said there wasn't one. But, of course, my policy was not student-centered, retention based enough. I explained to him that the students were old enough to suffer the consequences of their actions and we should treat them like adults and prepare them for the workplace and 8 absences without explanation would not fly in the word place. Also, I told him that I did not believe in coddling students who disappear for weeks and then want private sessions to catch up. Then he turned all of this around on me and finally asked me, "I don't understand what you are doing here?" Now, I need to mention that I am a seriously visually impaired student. I have had professors tell me not to take their courses. Anyway, since he is African American, I felt like responding, "They could of asked you the same question fifty years ago". I just told him I had to catch my handicapped bus to catch the train back into the city. He made me so mad that he made more determined to finish. I just passed my oral exams this past December and, because I bombed the third list (I have terrible chronic pain and none of the books on that list was available on professional audio)., I have to write a small paper on gaze theory. And of course I'm procrastinating. As my dad puts it so eloquently, I put it off and then compose in my head and then vomit all over the page.

[wildviolet]

I haven't had this happen to me, but I have a colleague who did not pass one of our first-year milestones. She has to retake it this year. If she does not pass, then she will be given a third and final chance. But... her advisor told her something like, "and if you don't pass on the third try then you would have wasted three years." I take that to be a roundabout way of saying... "you should rethink whether grad school is for you" or "you should quit now rather than waste another year (of your time and of our time and money)."

 

As a high school student, I had similar harsh words from my counselor. I was an excellent student, Advanced Placement classes and all that, and I wanted to apply early admission to a top private university. She told me (and I remember it to this day) that I "shouldn't get my hopes up."

 

I understood that the acceptance rate was 15%. However, I thought I had a good application. I applied anyway (I'm not sure what she wrote on my application), and I got in, and I received a need-based scholarship that basically paid for tuition.

 

Anyway, what I want to say is that you should re-assess these harsh words after some time reflecting on your situation. Is there some truth to it? Are you struggling in your program? Is this person just being mean? Or is there something else going on with this person, and they're lashing out at you? I think it is sometimes helpful to take a step back from the situation to assess it from multiple perspectives.

[Francophile1]

Glad to hear the discussion is still going! Yes it is definitely discouraging and it should not be like this, but I decided to keep going..for now!

[threading_the_neidl]

Good for you. Brush it off! You know yourself better than they do.