2015 Waitlist Thread

[Establishment]

One of my letter writers had told me that, sometimes, it's possible for a letter writer to contact a school about a student, thus bumping  the student ahead on the wait list. This is only possible if the letter writers know someone on the admission committee, though. I highly doubt the committee members would have time to read more work.

 

If this is actually true, that sounds pretty immoral.

[Duns Eith]

If this is actually true, that sounds pretty immoral.

I'm not sure it happens quite like that.

Can anyone remember where someone like schwitzsplintersunderblog or elsewhere something like this was said?

[Needle in the Hay]

If this is actually true, that sounds pretty immoral.

I suppose what I was thinking at first is that if the same opportunity is available to everyone- i.e. to have a recommender put in a word in his/ her favor to improve his/ her shot of being accepted off of the waiting list- then it would seem to be fine. I was taking it that the suggestion that the recommender in question would have to know someone on admissions didn't mean that this was some kind of credential but merely something that in fact would tend to help. 

 

On second thought I'm inclined to think that you are probably right. There seems to be good reason to have all of an applicant's admission credentials start and end with the application proper. For an applicant to be accepted on the basis of some credential that is not explicitly suggested or required for all applicants does seem unfair the more I think about it. Or otherwise, if this would not be an additional credential but rather a prompting for the admissions committee to further review the credentials I submitted with my application, it still seems somewhat unfair, because all of the applicants are not explicitly told that the same further review might be available to them and the presumption would seem to be to the contrary. 

 

Thanks for your suggestion. I think I will send my recommender a second email and retract my initial request and apologize. He hasn't responded yet anyway, which probably means he didn't like the idea given that he is an email wizard. 

 

 

Looks like I will just be sticking with the gracious email.  

[Needle in the Hay]

Actually, you know what? Never mind! I don't think this would be immoral. It is just smart to take advantage of every resource you have in situations like these. If others are not thinking outside the box then that is their problem. And if their recommenders don't know people on admissions then that is really just too bad for them. Fortune is not even- handed, but fortune and justice are not the same. 

 

I think your post just made me a bit OCD about this, Establishment. But note that personal connections come into play all the time in life. For instance, I know people who have connections to someone in med school admissions somewhere. They said some favorable things about an applicant to this person in admissions and next thing you know the applicant was admitted. Of course, he had to be qualified, but his dossier might have gotten extra review based on the suggestion. I don't really see any problems here.

 

As a note of personal disclosure, I was accepted to a PhD at UC Santa Cruz coming out of undergrad. I think this is in significant part due to a letter I sent the department in addition to all of my application materials. The letter voiced a strong interest in the program. It turns out they wanted to admit me but had thought it better not to since they couldn't offer me funding in the first year as an out of state student. I think my letter of interest suggested to them that I might be fine without the first year of funding, and they accepted me. I don't feel bad about this. I was just thinking outside of the box, and it helped.

 

Thanks again Turretin and DontFly. 

[DontFly]

I don't see how this is immoral. It's not like every time it'll work; it's not like every letter writer is willing to do this for you; it's not like luck doesn't play a role in applications. Admission committee members prefer you if you come from a prestigious school; if they know/respect your letter writers; if your writing sample agrees with their own view. I don't see how getting your letter writer to speak for you is any more "immoral" than this. Plus they're nor lying about you.

Edited March 18, 2015 by DontFly

[WhatIsGrounding]

Help me guys! I was waitlisted and University X and would very much like to go there... Would you wait for their decision (even if it is released soon before the deadline) or would you pursue another option?

 

Considerations to bear in mind:

 

1) University X is a perfect fit for me, although I have been accepted at other programs I am excited about.

2) University X didn't invite me to visit, so if they accept me close to the deadline I would have to make a decision without knowing whether I could work with the faculty.

 

Sorry I can't provide more information! PM if you would want more details.

 

Thank you!

[qualiafreak]

Help me guys! I was waitlisted and University X and would very much like to go there... Would you wait for their decision (even if it is released soon before the deadline) or would you pursue another option?

 

Considerations to bear in mind:

 

1) University X is a perfect fit for me, although I have been accepted at other programs I am excited about.

2) University X didn't invite me to visit, so if they accept me close to the deadline I would have to make a decision without knowing whether I could work with the faculty.

 

Sorry I can't provide more information! PM if you would want more details.

 

Thank you!

I would choose one of the programs you are excited about and plan as if you are going there but do not officially accept until on or near the deadline. You can also plan a "what-if" scenario for if you get into University X. That way, come April 15th, you are prepared either way. There's no benefit or reason on your end for accepting another offer early. Might as well wait until everything is on the table.

[DontFly]

I would choose one of the programs you are excited about and plan as if you are going there but do not officially accept until on or near the deadline. You can also plan a "what-if" scenario for if you get into University X. That way, come April 15th, you are prepared either way. There's no benefit or reason on your end for accepting another offer early. Might as well wait until everything is on the table.

I agree partly - The part I disagree is the part you say there's no reason to accept early. There is a courtesy reason - people might be waiting on that school also, and would really love to be able to plan ahead. Accepting/declining early is considerate to the wait listers.

I do agree that OP should think about what would happen if University X calls you on the last day, wanting to know if you'd go. If you won't accept it then, then I think a good idea might be: wait after X's visiting days, wait a couple more days, and remove yourself from there if you haven't heard anything still.

[qualiafreak]

Right, I know there is courtesy is involved but this is a major life decision - politeness shouldn't deter you from trying to know all your options before deciding. That's why I recommend choosing just one of the programs you're excited about, and declining the rest. I agree it's not courteous to sit on an acceptance if you know you won't take it, but at this point I think it's too early to accept an offer when there's a wait list you're more excited about.

[jo;yryts65edy]

Help me guys! I was waitlisted and University X and would very much like to go there... Would you wait for their decision (even if it is released soon before the deadline) or would you pursue another option?

 

Considerations to bear in mind:

 

1) University X is a perfect fit for me, although I have been accepted at other programs I am excited about.

2) University X didn't invite me to visit, so if they accept me close to the deadline I would have to make a decision without knowing whether I could work with the faculty.

 

Sorry I can't provide more information! PM if you would want more details.

 

Thank you!

 

I am sure there is some way you can still set up a visit, especially since you are seriously considering this University. That way if you do get accepted, you'll be more prepared to make the decision.

[DontFly]

Right, I know there is courtesy is involved but this is a major life decision - politeness shouldn't deter you from trying to know all your options before deciding. That's why I recommend choosing just one of the programs you're excited about, and declining the rest. I agree it's not courteous to sit on an acceptance if you know you won't take it, but at this point I think it's too early to accept an offer when there's a wait list you're more excited about.

Yep, I agree entirely -- both on now being too early anyway and on courtesy shouldn't stop people from exploring options.

 

To be honest, if OP says "yes I would accept X if they call me on the last day", I couldn't think of a better alternative than to hold off until last day. I guess that's where all the last day phone calls coming from. 

[Duns Eith]

Yep, I agree entirely -- both on now being too early anyway and on courtesy shouldn't stop people from exploring options.

 

To be honest, if OP says "yes I would accept X if they call me on the last day", I couldn't think of a better alternative than to hold off until last day. I guess that's where all the last day phone calls coming from. 

Is there any problem with provisionally accepting Program Y, and then, if accepted by X, asking Y to release you because of X? How might that work if someone from X calls you? I trust they would understand you need release from Y first.

Edited March 18, 2015 by Turretin

[qualiafreak]

Why though? Why not wait? Do you get some benefit from accepting early? It sounds like that's what you want to do, and it's your choice to make of course, I'm just not sure I see why you would accept something this early if you think you might rescind your acceptance..

[overoverover]

Is there any problem with provisionally accepting Program Y, and then, if accepted by X, asking Y to release you because of X? How might that work if someone from X calls you? I trust they would understand you need release from Y first.

That makes it hard for others who might be waitlisted at Y. If you take the spot at Y, then somebody else doesn't get the offer, and so when you turn down Y after the fact for X, Y can't give that to somebody else (for various reasons). Just waiting is the best option.

[Establishment]

Don't accept earlier than you need to.

 

The more interesting case is turning down a program you already accepted after the April 15th deadline. Although it's not ideal, no one would blame you for accepting say an admission to U Nebraska on April 15th, and then getting off the NYU waitlist on April 20th, and asking Nebraska for a release.

[WhatIsGrounding]

Thanks guys! This is all really helpful.

 

 

I am sure there is some way you can still set up a visit, especially since you are seriously considering this University. That way if you do get accepted, you'll be more prepared to make the decision.

 

You don't think that would be awkward given that they didn't invite me to begin with?

 

 

I agree partly - The part I disagree is the part you say there's no reason to accept early. There is a courtesy reason - people might be waiting on that school also, and would really love to be able to plan ahead. Accepting/declining early is considerate to the wait listers.

I do agree that OP should think about what would happen if University X calls you on the last day, wanting to know if you'd go. If you won't accept it then, then I think a good idea might be: wait after X's visiting days, wait a couple more days, and remove yourself from there if you haven't heard anything still.

 

Yeah, I agree. I will try to decline my offer from most schools by April 1st. I think I will wait for school X until some date close to April 15--say, April 13--and then, if I haven't heard from them by then, accept school Y's offer (where Y is my second choice, yet to be determined).

[jo;yryts65edy]

Personally, I don't see it as being awkward, but maybe someone else would be willing to weigh in on this? Would it be acceptable as a waitlisted applicant to try to set up a visit?

[qualiafreak]

I don't think it's awkward as long as you word it properly, I'd do it. It would be awkward to just show up to visitation days non invited, but not to simply ask if it would be okay for you to come visit the campus since it's one of your top choices. Don't expect them to pay for it or anything, though.

[Duns Eith]

That makes it hard for others who might be waitlisted at Y. If you take the spot at Y, then somebody else doesn't get the offer, and so when you turn down Y after the fact for X, Y can't give that to somebody else (for various reasons). Just waiting is the best option.

Y can't give it to someone else? This is something I didn't know. Why is this the case?

[overoverover]

Y can't give it to someone else? This is something I didn't know. Why is this the case?

It isn't always, but it could be due to institutional factors. Basically, my point is that by accepting an offer you know you might eventually turn down before April 15 makes things complicated for lots of other people.

Suppose A is in at X and waitlisted at Y. She knows she prefers Y, but accepts X early. X emails B, who is waitlisted at X and accepted at Z, that she won't be admitted. B then takes the offer from Z.

When A rescinds the acceptance at X to attend Y, this puts B in a weird place when X makes an April 15 phone call to her. Perhaps she already signed a lease, or has begun corresponding with Z's faculty. That's just one example; I take it there are more.

Basically, if you're on a waitlist for a school you'd prefer, don't accept early. It might make things complicated for others. Plus, it's unprofessional.

[DontFly]

Don't accept earlier than you need to.

The more interesting case is turning down a program you already accepted after the April 15th deadline. Although it's not ideal, no one would blame you for accepting say an admission to U Nebraska on April 15th, and then getting off the NYU waitlist on April 20th, and asking Nebraska for a release.

A lot of people will blame you. You just can't hear them.

[Duns Eith]

 

It isn't always, but it could be due to institutional factors. Basically, my point is that by accepting an offer you know you might eventually turn down before April 15 makes things complicated for lots of other people.

Suppose A is in at X and waitlisted at Y. She knows she prefers Y, but accepts X early. X emails B, who is waitlisted at X and accepted at Z, that she won't be admitted. B then takes the offer from Z.

When A rescinds the acceptance at X to attend Y, this puts B in a weird place when X makes an April 15 phone call to her. Perhaps she already signed a lease, or has begun corresponding with Z's faculty. That's just one example; I take it there are more.

Basically, if you're on a waitlist for a school you'd prefer, don't accept early. It might make things complicated for others. Plus, it's unprofessional.

Thanks for explaining it. This is relevant for me, since I am waitlisted at Purdue (low likelihood), but I need to reply to my MA I've been accepted at by April 15 (especially in the event that I am not accepted to Purdue). If I get the call on April 15th that I am accepted off the waitlist, I don't quite know how to tell Purdue except "let me get a release first" ... but what you're describing still would impact the MA I said yes to.

Edited March 19, 2015 by Turretin

[WhatIsGrounding]

A lot of people will blame you. You just can't hear them.

Personally, I think I wouldn't ask for a release: that would be burning some bridges that I am unwilling to burn.

That is, even if school X is my top choice, I wouldn't accept their offer after I had accepted an offer from my second choice (especially since it is also a great school). It would be rude and counterproductive in that it would be awkward (to say the least) to ask anyone at my second choice for any kind of help in the future.

For that reason, I think the smartest thing to do after you have accepted an offer is to decline all others and take yourself off every waitlist.

[Duns Eith]

Personally, I think I wouldn't ask for a release: that would be burning some bridges that I am unwilling to burn.

That is, even if school X is my top choice, I wouldn't accept their offer after I had accepted an offer from my second choice (especially since it is also a great school). It would be rude and counterproductive in that it would be awkward (to say the least) to ask anyone at my second choice for any kind of help in the future.

I don't think AdComs would fail to understand; I don't know how it would be burning bridges. They know the climate, the prospects, what it is like to not hear from your dream school... In every acceptance letter I have been mailed, they include information on the acceptance is binding and they outline the release process. Remembering that they are not obligated to release you, and that it is a formal contract with a process for getting it rescinded, there should be no shame in trying to invoke the process in light of better prospects -- it's your future, and they understand.

 

For that reason, I think the smartest thing to do after you have accepted an offer is to decline all others and take yourself off every waitlist.

 

As soon as you can make that determination, I think any offer you intend to turn down in light of the best offer on the table, yes, you should decline or remove yourself from the waitlist.

Edited March 19, 2015 by Turretin

[PreciselyTerrified]

Declined Penn. It was difficult. The people are fantastic. Good luck to the waitlisted!