Dating non-graduate students

[Sigaba]

Thanks... yes, I have learned to accept people for who they are, and I do not want to become some man's "mother." So, it really bothered me that he was 40, had hit a plateau in his career, saw the way up, yet refused (for whatever reason) to pursue his dreams. Leaving my family and everything I had known behind to come to grad school on my own was daring--and I want to be with someone who is just as daring.

I don't think I would have time for a FWB with him (besides, I couldn't help comparing him to my ex, and he was measuring up... kind of short.) So, on to the next one, I suppose.

There's a significant tension in your post. If you accept people for who they are then why are you bothered by the guy's approach to his work and why are you comparing him to your ex?

[wildviolet]

There's a significant tension in your post. If you accept people for who they are then why are you bothered by the guy's approach to his work and why are you comparing him to your ex?

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with tension. In fact, by paying attention to the tensions in our lives and trying to work through them, we can transform our lives into something better (sorry, I can't help but use the same theoretical framework in my work in my real social life since what I study is real social life).

 

Second, I can't help but compare him to my ex. I found him better on many accounts. But it's not so black and white. While I really liked him, I had to listen to my inner voice that was yelling--"red flag!" Just like I don't want to change others, I don't want to necessarily change myself. I know what I like and what I want. I know my boundaries, and someone who has little ambition to better his own situation is not someone I can respect. So I guess it comes down to respect. I don't respect him.

[Sigaba]

By "tension" I meant inconsistency. Knowing what you want and holding to that standard is one thing. Ragging on this person is another.

[MathCat]

By "tension" I meant inconsistency. Knowing what you want and holding to that standard is one thing. Ragging on this person is another.

I don't think accepting who somebody is necessarily means approving. It just means not trying to change them. I don't see any inconsistency in the post.

[Cheshire_Cat]

Sitting for the CPA exam is no easy task. There are four tests, and only about 20% of people pass all four on the first try.  It took me 9 months to pass them all and I did it quickly. I talked to a Ph.D student who had sat for them and passed his comps, and he said that the comps were slightly harder, but not by much. It is ranked as the hardest professional exam to pass.  Harder than the bar exam.  But if you are serious about moving up in the world of accounting, it is the only way.  And if he hasn't at least tried by age 40 with no family or kids to keep him from it, that would be a huge red flag in my mind.  If he tried and failed for a couple years, then I would probably give him a break, but still not date him because I need someone smarter than me to feel secure.

[wildviolet]

Sitting for the CPA exam is no easy task. There are four tests, and only about 20% of people pass all four on the first try.  It took me 9 months to pass them all and I did it quickly. I talked to a Ph.D student who had sat for them and passed his comps, and he said that the comps were slightly harder, but not by much. It is ranked as the hardest professional exam to pass.  Harder than the bar exam.  But if you are serious about moving up in the world of accounting, it is the only way.  And if he hasn't at least tried by age 40 with no family or kids to keep him from it, that would be a huge red flag in my mind.  If he tried and failed for a couple years, then I would probably give him a break, but still not date him because I need someone smarter than me to feel secure.

 

Thanks for that information!

 

I agree with you, though. He expressed a desire to move up in the world of accounting but did not seem to be motivated to take actual steps towards it. I understand if there are other life factors, but... he doesn't seem to have anything stopping him from achieving it except his own will and determination. I cannot accept that in a potential life partner.

 

To be fair, the decision to stop seeing each other was mutual.

[Dr. Old Bill]

Just chiming in with a slightly different perspective...

 

I'm older and married, and will be starting a M.A. program in the fall, after completing my B.A. in May. I recognize that I am uncommonly old to just be finishing an undergraduate degree, but so it goes. In any event, my wife is a fairly successful professional in the non-profit arts sector, and we have a great relationship etc., but she doesn't talk much about her work, nor does she ask me about my studies. I'll often start to talk about a paper I've been writing, or a particularly enjoyable course etc., but the specifics don't really interest her too much beyond the fact that she knows that I am enjoying what I am doing. More importantly, however, she is 100% supportive of my future goals, just as I have been of hers...and that's really the key. It doesn't bother me much that she doesn't take an active interest in my studies, because I definitively know that she encourages me, supports me, and "has my back," so to speak. In other words, in all the ways that truly matter, she's there for me.

 

My advice is to examine whether or not your partner can fulfill that same role. Before I went down the path I'm on, I had a few menial (but decent-paying) jobs that I had ZERO desire to talk about with anyone, let alone my wife. Likewise, some people just see work as a necessary part of life, and no more worthy of comment than the eight hours spent sleeping. (I, for one, could care less about hearing about a dream someone had...) Ultimately, even though a large part of your life may be tied up in your academic work, remember that your partner is likely with you for broader reasons, and so long as he reciprocates in the "support and encouragement" aspect of things, you might be just fine.

[Rodomonte]

This makes me think that maybe for guys... it doesn't matter what the girl does as long as she's happy with it. Maybe more important things are... her looks, physical attraction to her, her smile, her laugh and sense of humor, the way she makes him feel. 

 

Way to pigeon-hole an entire gender (and you're working on PhD? And in education to boot???) Men often get flak for doing this to women.... like most fair-minded people, I'm all for parity of the sexes, but I don't think sexism is really what anyone has in mind. 

[fuzzylogician]

Way to pigeon-hole an entire gender (and you're working on PhD? And in education to boot???) Men often get flak for doing this to women.... like most fair-minded people, I'm all for parity of the sexes, but I don't think sexism is really what anyone has in mind. 

 

To be fair, though, it was a reply to a post that did sound exactly that way: 

 

Seems like alot of females here.

 

From the male perspective, I'm cool with dating anyone with any job, because I'm a good listener and can get interested in alot of things, and can hold a conversation about things. Grad school in physics doesn't feel too different from my internship at a pharmaceutical plant - there's still corporate boardroom style meetings where we're told to raise our productivity or take customer satisfaction into account.

 

(And I resisted before, but "females"? What am I, a cat or a dog? Also, this.)

[wildviolet]

Way to pigeon-hole an entire gender (and you're working on PhD? And in education to boot???) Men often get flak for doing this to women.... like most fair-minded people, I'm all for parity of the sexes, but I don't think sexism is really what anyone has in mind. 

 

Well, I did say "maybe," and I really don't think my ability to think about ideas and conduct quality research in education has anything to do with my inability to navigate the utterly confusing world of online dating.

Edited March 15, 2015 by wildviolet

[Crucial BBQ]

 

I wonder if this is a deal breaker, or if I'm being too picky/unrealistic or need to re-examine what I want/need in a relationship. 

Translation:  need to re-examine what I want/need in a relationship = how much do I need to change to fit this dude's ideals?  

 

​You already know what you want/need (even if you say you don't, you do) and whether this is something that can be overlooked or if it is going to be a deal breaker.  I've been in enough relationships to know that if something seems like a red flag in the beginning it usually turns into a real red flag later on down road.  

 

Go with your gut. 

 

Thanks... yes, I have learned to accept people for who they are, and I do not want to become some man's "mother." So, it really bothered me that he was 40, had hit a plateau in his career, saw the way up, yet refused (for whatever reason) to pursue his dreams. Leaving my family and everything I had known behind to come to grad school on my own was daring--and I want to be with someone who is just as daring.

 

I don't think I would have time for a FWB with him (besides, I couldn't help comparing him to my ex, and he was measuring up... kind of short.) So, on to the next one, I suppose.

Just to ask a question, isn't saying no to the corporate ladder in order to pursue a lifelong dream daring?  

[wildviolet]

Translation:  need to re-examine what I want/need in a relationship = how much do I need to change to fit this dude's ideals?  

 

​You already know what you want/need (even if you say you don't, you do) and whether this is something that can be overlooked or if it is going to be a deal breaker.  I've been in enough relationships to know that if something seems like a red flag in the beginning it usually turns into a real red flag later on down road.  

 

Go with your gut. 

 

Just to ask a question, isn't saying no to the corporate ladder in order to pursue a lifelong dream daring?  

 

Sorry, I wasn't very clear... he wasn't saying no to the corporate ladder. His dream is to advance in his field by either passing the CPA or getting a MBA (but he won't because his current company won't pay for it, and I guess he's unable or unwilling to pay for it himself). And so, he seems to think that passing the CPA should be his next goal... but says he is too lazy to pursue it.

 

Anyway, he's texting me again after a week of nothing... when I thought it was over? My friend told me guys would do this!

Edited March 18, 2015 by wildviolet

[Monochrome Spring]

I like having a partner who isn't in academia. He's a music education major (which is actually a lot more time intense than I previously thought), finishing his Bachelor's degree and teaching crednetials. He is curious about my research and genuinely thinks it's interesting and tries to understand it, but I don't have to deal with nitpicking the minutia with him. It keeps my work/school life very separate from my personal life, and I like it that way. I am not someone who can think about my research 24/7. I need to have specific times I work on my research, and then I ignore it when I have my relaxing time.

 

But, if he wasn't interested in my research at all, I think that would be very difficult. Research is 50% or more of our lives, so it's important to have someone who can support you through that and be interested in what you're doing outside of your personal life.

[TakeruK]

I like having a partner who isn't in academia. He's a music education major (which is actually a lot more time intense than I previously thought), finishing his Bachelor's degree and teaching crednetials. He is curious about my research and genuinely thinks it's interesting and tries to understand it, but I don't have to deal with nitpicking the minutia with him. It keeps my work/school life very separate from my personal life, and I like it that way. I am not someone who can think about my research 24/7. I need to have specific times I work on my research, and then I ignore it when I have my relaxing time.

 

But, if he wasn't interested in my research at all, I think that would be very difficult. Research is 50% or more of our lives, so it's important to have someone who can support you through that and be interested in what you're doing outside of your personal life.

 

I feel the same way! My partner took some introductory courses in astronomy for non-majors and that is definitely showing interest/curiosity in my work Also, I think astronomy is one of the more "friendly" academic fields where there's lots of easy ways to engage with the topic without having a lot of background!

 

I also agree that I like separating work and life and I try to basically shut off my "research brain" when I leave my desk. I used to read tons of popular science articles on astronomy (even subscribed to Astronomy magazine) but now that I work in the field, I no longer want to read about it when I'm "off work" lol. I haven't even seen any of the new "Cosmos" series yet and I feel a little weird when relatives tell me that it's a TV show I might be interested in. It's not like I don't enjoy my research -- I definitely do and I look forward to going into work each day to do it, but when I'm not working, I would rather do something completely different! 

 

I feel that my partner is interested in my career and my work but not necessarily interested in the details of what I do. And that's great for me! When we talk about our work day during dinner, I usually focus on the interactions I had with my colleagues (e.g. a funny joke, an awkward situation, a cool event that happened etc.) rather than my actual work.

[Crucial BBQ]

Sorry, I wasn't very clear... he wasn't saying no to the corporate ladder. His dream is to advance in his field by either passing the CPA or getting a MBA (but he won't because his current company won't pay for it, and I guess he's unable or unwilling to pay for it himself). And so, he seems to think that passing the CPA should be his next goal... but says he is too lazy to pursue it.

 

Anyway, he's texting me again after a week of nothing... when I thought it was over? My friend told me guys would do this!

Ah, okay.  Yes, guys will do that, but it is impossible to know why this is doing it.  He could just be really lazy or is trying hard not to appear desperate.  Or perhaps he is unsure if he wants a relationship or if so to what extant (casual, LT, FWB, and so on).    

 

Typically, though, if a guy is interested he will not go an entire week without contact of any sort.  Based on my experiences this would be a red flag:  he is either in a relationship and/or just wants the occasional booty call or is unsure of what he wants and will string you along.  Either way, if you respond to him after one full week of no contact you are signaling to him that this sort of thing is okay, that he can go a week or two, or an entire month, without contacting you and then when he finally does get around to doing so--at his own convenience--you will respond with wassup? no matter how miffed you may be.  Perhaps I am reading too much into it, but I would be weary that he is attempting to play you.  

 

 

As an aside, I was the "non academic" in a relationship with someone in grad school...on three separate occasions.  With two of them, they both had a full life already established outside of grad school so grad school was just something that they were doing at that point in their lives and was surely a part of that life at that moment but in no way defined their lives or who they were.  It was easy to not talk about grad school, academia, and so on, and it was easy to do so if it came up.  The third was all about grad school, from Sun up to Sun down, 24/7.  To be frank, that relationship was rather boring and I felt I was nothing more than "moral support".   

Edited March 18, 2015 by Crucial BBQ

[wildviolet]

I'm thankful for all the different perspectives that have been offered on here! I'm re-thinking my expectations for dating non-graduate students.

 

So, his text questions have been neutral so far, like how my day was and what my plans are for the night. BUT, he hasn't directly asked to see me for a date. In a way, I think he is being respectful of my busy schedule by trying to see me when I'm free (since his schedule is more open). I mean, he's told me this directly, but I also think he's now putting it into action. However, I told him that if he was serious about dating me, he'd need to schedule dates with me ahead of time, just like everyone else in my life!

 

And, he does actually listen to me, like he remembers when I say I have to read something by Sunday night in order to meet with my advisor on Monday morning. My impression now is that he does value education and is a little bit in awe of me doing a PhD (at first, he wasn't sure why I chose this university in the middle of nowhere, especially compared to where I was living before, but then I explained that it has top programs in my specialty). I'm thinking that maybe he's just not as academic as me and that's okay. His intellectual interests lie elsewhere--he'll read and watch stuff about politics, economics, and world news (especially about events back in his home country).

 

It's not easy finding someone you have really good chemistry with, so maybe I'll give it a second try since it seems like he's willing to give it another try.

[TenaciousBushLeaper]

Way to pigeon-hole an entire gender (and you're working on PhD? And in education to boot???) Men often get flak for doing this to women.... like most fair-minded people, I'm all for parity of the sexes, but I don't think sexism is really what anyone has in mind. 

 

This makes me think that maybe for guys... it doesn't matter what the girl does as long as she's happy with it. Maybe more important things are... her looks, physical attraction to her, her smile, her laugh and sense of humor, the way she makes him feel. These are all the things he's complimented me for... but since he's never asked about my work or any deep intellectual stuff, he hasn't said anything about me being smart... which is something that's very important to me.

As a male - human, here are my two cents on this. I don't necessarily care what my would be partner did, so long, as wildviolet pointed out she's happy, and really not necessarily "happy", but happy enough so that whatever the job is/would be didn't make her miserable. Other things I look for in women, let me quote or maybe paraphrase?  "her looks, physical attraction,smile,laugh,sense of humor,way she makes me feel". 

One other thing I'd want is, or rather this is more of a requirement, I wouldn't like/want to be with someone who I felt I was "intellectually superior" to. For whatever reason, that is the main  "thing" with me and it's what could make someone who I deem a 5 on a scale of 1 to 10 an 8 or 9. My would be partner would either have to be on the same level as or smarter than me. 

Edited March 19, 2015 by TenaciousBushLeaper

[wildviolet]

As a male - human, here are my two cents on this. I don't necessarily care what my would be partner did, so long, as wildviolet pointed out she's happy, and really not necessarily "happy", but happy enough so that whatever the job is/would be didn't make her miserable. Other things I look for in women, let me quote or maybe paraphrase?  "her looks, physical attraction,smile,laugh,sense of humor,way she makes me feel". 

One other thing I'd want is, or rather this is more of a requirement, I wouldn't like/want to be with someone who I felt I was "intellectually superior" to. For whatever reason, that is the main  "thing" with me and it's what could make someone who I deem a 5 on a scale of 1 to 10 an 8 or 9. My would be partner would either have to be on the same level as or smarter than me. 

 

Right. So both partners should be on the same level or one is smarter than the other. But maybe what I'm starting to be more comfortable with is that we could be smart in different ways.

 

It's just that my experience with relationships is so limited--I've only been with my ex-husband, who was also a nerdy, book smart, science and computer type of guy. We met in college, and we were both science majors (although he was much better at math than I was), so I think we would have considered ourselves on the same level intellectually.

 

With this guy, I do admire his ability to read, write, and speak fluently in two languages (I certainly can't). I don't know--we might be good for each other, and help each other grow--but I think we'd each have to reconsider our "ideal" partner that we had in mind when we were looking for dates online. For example, I'm pretty sure he wanted someone who had more free time and could spend nights over, etc. So he'd have to see if it's worth dating me on my limited availability. Maybe quality time, not quantity? On my side, I'd have to rethink this concept of "intellectual engagment." I mean, at least he's got a decent job! And he doesn't hate it!

 

Oh, and on our first coffee date, he said I was "classy." LOL, I don't know if men still use that word, but I took it as a huge compliment.

Edited March 19, 2015 by wildviolet

[maelia8]

I think classy is definitely a nice compliment. I'd like it if that word was used to describe me

[i.am.me]

Oh noes...i'm all LATEEEEEEEE and the saga has ended!

 

My grad school life is important RIGHT NOW...since we're grad students. But, frankly, I'd prefer someone who would fit into the other part of my lives (like my real one, the one I came from and will go back to). 

 

Hang in there, wildviolet! I l live through you as another transplant to the Midwest in Education. 

[Mwing]

My most recent dating experience is somewhat similar to yours! In my case I quickly figured out that I do not want to be with someone who isn't intellectually stimulating or motivated, so I kept things strictly physical until I decided not to lead him on. He's a sweet guy, good-looking and very caring, but that just wasn't enough for me. I know that I would rather date an average-looking guy who's incredibly smart and funny. I think that intelligence is one of those qualities that makes you sexier. 

[wildviolet]

Oh noes...i'm all LATEEEEEEEE and the saga has ended!

 

My grad school life is important RIGHT NOW...since we're grad students. But, frankly, I'd prefer someone who would fit into the other part of my lives (like my real one, the one I came from and will go back to). 

 

Hang in there, wildviolet! I l live through you as another transplant to the Midwest in Education. 

 

LOL, the saga isn't quite over... (when is it really?).

[wildviolet]

My most recent dating experience is somewhat similar to yours! In my case I quickly figured out that I do not want to be with someone who isn't intellectually stimulating or motivated, so I kept things strictly physical until I decided not to lead him on. He's a sweet guy, good-looking and very caring, but that just wasn't enough for me. I know that I would rather date an average-looking guy who's incredibly smart and funny. I think that intelligence is one of those qualities that makes you sexier. 

 

I'm having the same thoughts as you... this guy is very sweet and caring when we're together, but trying to schedule a date is crazy complicated! I mean, first he was out of town, then I was sick, then it's college basketball season (I don't watch, but he does), and then the next two weekends I'm out of town for conferences. I told this guy we should just call it quits because we can't seem to manage to get together even though we live close to each other. And I'm not up for "text relationships" (ugh, sometimes I really hate modern cell phones).

 

Besides the whole intellectual thing, I also think there are very different cultural differences between us that would not make things work in the long run. Like, I actually say "no" to him, and he's like, "well, that's not a very good way to start." He was half-joking, but I wasn't. Um, hello? Women in particular have to un-learn saying "yes" all the time to saying "no" when we need to in order to keep our sanity.

 

Anyway, one of my girlfriends says, you're going to be a Dr. and you deserve a Dr.! LOL, we'll see. I did fall in love with another PhD student two years ago, but he's graduated and moved half a world away. We still keep in touch through social media, though.

[music]

Anyway, one of my girlfriends says, you're going to be a Dr. and you deserve a Dr.! 

I find this to be sickeningly elitist and snobbish. 

[_kita]

I'm dating a non-grad student. We met back in undergraduate (he was an art education major), but didn't hit it off until several years down the road. He had issues with the education field and lack of jobs, so is now in IT and working to establish an art career.

 

It's actually amazing to have a partner who is as passionate about a career as I am (art to Psychology) but from a completely different background. We're both intensely competitive, driven people, so we are a non-competitive bouncing block for each other. Despite that we've dated over 1 1/2 years (known each other for about 9), grad school creates different communication problems. We really have to work on understanding the dynamics of each other's daily demands. I tend to downplay the emotional/stress levels of my jobs, and talk about my excitement towards a project. So my exhaustion causes some friction sometimes. But it's usually easily resolved, since we discuss it immediately.

 

Our relationship is working out really well. We compliment each other's personalities. 

Edited April 5, 2015 by psychkita