Font, margins, and spacing tricks to overcome page limits

[Averroes MD]

So, how noticeable do you think using various tricks (size 11 font, smaller margins, and 1.5 spacing) is? This is in order to overcome a professor's page limit for an essay. I've gone way, way over the limit, but--and I may be thinking too much of myself here--I really think it's a really good essay, and I really don't want to cut it down.

I think I'll also use end notes instead of footnotes for references. That should also buy me another page, lol.

What about size 10 font? Pushing the limits?

Thoughts?

EDIT: The professor merely gave the page limit, without specific instructions about the formatting. However, it's obviously understood that the essay should be size 12, normal margins, and double spaced.

Edited May 7, 2016 by Averroes MD

[ExponentialDecay]

https://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/747/01/

If your paper isn't formatted as indicated, it's technically cheating. Also, yes, it's noticeable, and in my opinion a little embarrassing to still be using freshman year tricks in grad school.

A word count is used to guide you to the right amount of thoroughness/conciseness in your argument. If you are falling short of the page limit, you are either a very concise writer, or you didn't answer the question. If you are over, you either know/can argue more than the professor expects you to, or you're a waffler. If you honestly believe that your paper is not redundant or waffly and the extra length serves a purpose, just leave it. You won't normally get penalized for doing good work. 

Edited May 7, 2016 by ExponentialDecay

[Averroes MD]

6 hours ago, ExponentialDecay said:

https://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/747/01/

If your paper isn't formatted as indicated, it's technically cheating. Also, yes, it's noticeable, and in my opinion a little embarrassing to still be using freshman year tricks in grad school.

A word count is used to guide you to the right amount of thoroughness/conciseness in your argument. If you are falling short of the page limit, you are either a very concise writer, or you didn't answer the question. If you are over, you either know/can argue more than the professor expects you to, or you're a waffler. If you honestly believe that your paper is not redundant or waffly and the extra length serves a purpose, just leave it. You won't normally get penalized for doing good work. 

I think it's a stretch to call it "cheating," but thanks for your input. 

I also humbly disagree with this part:

If you are falling short of the page limit, you are either a very concise writer, or you didn't answer the question.

It doesn't have to be either of those two. Sometimes an argument has to be thorough, as you mention here:

 If you honestly believe that your paper is not redundant or waffly and the extra length serves a purpose, just leave it.

I may just do that. I'm debating.

Thanks!

[dr. t]

Writing concisely is, in and of itself, a discipline, and a discipline worthy of practice.

If you're within ca. 10%, i.e. 1 page per 10, whatever. Otherwise, you're not doing the assignment, and the great quality of your paper doesn't transform it into the assignment. 

[AP]

7 hours ago, Averroes MD said:

So, how noticeable do you think using various tricks (size 11 font, smaller margins, and 1.5 spacing) is? This is in order to overcome a professor's page limit for an essay. I've gone way, way over the limit, but--and I may be thinking too much of myself here--I really think it's a really good essay, and I really don't want to cut it down.

If you went "way, way over the limit", then it is not well written. It's probably not about cutting down but about saying things more concisely and straightforwardly. Avoid "tricks". Professors know all the tricks and it's simply lazy to use font 10 in order to have more space. 

[Averroes MD]

3 minutes ago, AP said:

If you went "way, way over the limit", then it is not well written. It's probably not about cutting down but about saying things more concisely and straightforwardly. Avoid "tricks". Professors know all the tricks and it's simply lazy to use font 10 in order to have more space. 

Alright, seems like there is a consensus here. But, just to clarify: there was no prompt or specific topic for this essay. It was left open-ended on any subject about the topic of the class. Therefore, there is no way to say that "it is not well written," since the topic is open-ended and the page limit was placed arbitrarily. Otherwise, it would be like saying that a thesis is "not well written" since it is 100 pages long. I know this generation loves concision, but sometimes you really do need to go in-depth to do justice to a topic.

Anyways, I get the idea... Don't do it. Roger that.

Edited May 7, 2016 by Averroes MD

[Calgacus]

I agree with telkanuru's 10% rule. That seems reasonable. Having taught undergrad for several years, I can say the "tricks" are incredibly obvious, because a professor is grading a whole stack of papers, so one with funky margins or fonts immediately sticks out. When I found those, I tended to find it a bit insulting, since it suggested the student thought it was clever and would be getting away with something without me realizing...which they obviously weren't. This is why I quickly switched to word counts, rather than page numbers. I realize teaching undergrad vs. grad classes is very different, but that's just my experience.

I would go with the 10% rule, but if you're really confident about your work that it's well done and there's nothing to cut, I'd probably just own it with the regular formatting. Otherwise, it's sending the message that you're trying to trick them and that you think you're doing something wrong. Also, if you feel like the prof didn't give a lot of guidelines, you could always just email them to ask how rigid the page limit is. Then at least you don't have to wonder whether it's a big deal or not.

[Averroes MD]

1 hour ago, Calgacus said:

I agree with telkanuru's 10% rule. That seems reasonable. Having taught undergrad for several years, I can say the "tricks" are incredibly obvious, because a professor is grading a whole stack of papers, so one with funky margins or fonts immediately sticks out. When I found those, I tended to find it a bit insulting, since it suggested the student thought it was clever and would be getting away with something without me realizing...which they obviously weren't. This is why I quickly switched to word counts, rather than page numbers. I realize teaching undergrad vs. grad classes is very different, but that's just my experience.

I would go with the 10% rule, but if you're really confident about your work that it's well done and there's nothing to cut, I'd probably just own it with the regular formatting. Otherwise, it's sending the message that you're trying to trick them and that you think you're doing something wrong. Also, if you feel like the prof didn't give a lot of guidelines, you could always just email them to ask how rigid the page limit is. Then at least you don't have to wonder whether it's a big deal or not.

Thanks for your input. I appreciate it. I've decided against the formatting plan. I thought people here would all chuckle and say it's very common for grad students to do that, but apparently I am mistaken.

Thank you again all for your input.

 

Edited May 7, 2016 by Averroes MD

[Eigen]

Maybe I wasn't clear, but is this a graduate class? 

If so, it's even less common. 

More common would have been to go to the faculty member early on, and say you had a topic you really wanted to write on that couldn't be adequately covered in 10 pages, with an explanation of why. 

They could then either let you turn in the longer paper, or advise you pick a new topic. 

Part of grad school is learning to write with short page limits- grants, journals, and many other venues for your professional writing will have them. 

Mid your topic is too complex to discuss in 10 pages (although this seems unlikely) then you need to think more carefully on topic selection in the future. 

[Danger_Zone]

I think this would be a great opportunity to really take the time to edit down your paper to the appropriate length. I've had papers I felt were the perfect length and I couldn't possibly take anything out, but I think one of my issues was I spent much more time picking out grammatical and spelling errors, rather than being really thoughtful about the significance of each sentence. So you could try to look through your paper and really ask questions like: what is this sentence saying, and is the sentence after saying something different or am I being redundant? Could I merge sentences together and would they still convey the same meaning? Are there any particularly "flowery" sentences that could be shortened? These are some things you could think about when writing/editing!

[hippyscientist]

Wow I don't think we ever were given this sort of leniency in terms of font, margins etc. It was all prescribed and you were penalised for changing any element. All work was given a word count (I'm talking undergraduate and masters here) and you were allowed to go 10% under but not a word over. The advice @Danger_Zone gives with things to consider is important, but also see if you repeat ideas (but have phrased them differently). To you, the author, it may seem like a good piece of work, but is there someone you could maybe discuss elements with? I have a good critical friend who crucifies all my work, and it's made me much more concise (though not on these forums). Remember, while depth is important, you don't need to cover EVERYTHING in one essay. Key information, key texts, key theories (I'm not sure exactly about history in general) are great, as are more minutiae but not every i needs to be dotted and every t crossed. Be harsh with yourself when you read back over the work. Instead of thinking "Yes this is a good essay" think like the person marking it, or a journal reviewer. Mark it like you might mark other students (in your head). Use other feedback as a reference. Find the flaws. 

[Concordia]

A lot of this will depend on the folkways of your classroom.  If the assignment was "write something good-- about 10 pages," the professor might see that as a minimum  to be sure that you weren't just repeating that morning's horoscope.  After all, 10 pp takes you well beyond the 5-paragraph thing, and forces you to develop some depth in your argument.

Other places, it's pretty brutal and will come down the other way.  Cambridge essays will usually have a MAXIMUM word limit, and there are warnings in the course handbooks that you will be punished for going over.  You then have to submit a declaration with paper guaranteeing that it isn't over the limit, and now that we have word count software, it's possible to fill in "3,996" with some confidence.  And they have the ability to check quickly.  Our last class before the dissertation deadline, there were many nervous questions about whether footnotes were included (i.e., would hurt you), what the protocol was for tables, etc.  Whether the real problem would be going over by 5 words or 10% may depend on the situation, but that's the lay of the land there.

Edited May 7, 2016 by Concordia

[Averroes MD]

Alright, I've dedicated a day to seeing what I can cut from the essay. Painful.

[rising_star]

11 hours ago, Averroes MD said:

Alright, seems like there is a consensus here. But, just to clarify: there was no prompt or specific topic for this essay. It was left open-ended on any subject about the topic of the class. Therefore, there is no way to say that "it is not well written," since the topic is open-ended and the page limit was placed arbitrarily. Otherwise, it would be like saying that a thesis is "not well written" since it is 100 pages long. I know this generation loves concision, but sometimes you really do need to go in-depth to do justice to a topic.

Anyways, I get the idea... Don't do it. Roger that.

I'm glad you've decided not to do this. But, just to be clear, page limits are typically NOT arbitrary even when the topic is open-ended. That's like saying that maximum word counts for journal articles are arbitrary because a journal covers a broad topic. And yes, there's a way to say that anything, whether it's 100 pages or 10 pages isn't well written because it is possible for anything to be poorly written. Follow the instructions you're given for the assignment. 

FWIW, I wouldn't even read a paper written by a student who either used all of those tricks or whose paper was blatantly longer than it should be. It'd be an automatic zero with a chance to rewrite for partial credit. 

[SunshineLolipops]

When it finally comes to the point that you have to start cutting whole paragraphs or sections of your paper, create a new document and cut and paste the removed sections into it.  It's useful if you realize that you cut something that you actually needed, but mostly it's just to ease the pain of getting rid of writing that you agonized over.  

[Calgacus]

1 hour ago, SunshineLolipops said:

When it finally comes to the point that you have to start cutting whole paragraphs or sections of your paper, create a new document and cut and paste the removed sections into it.  It's useful if you realize that you cut something that you actually needed, but mostly it's just to ease the pain of getting rid of writing that you agonized over.  

This is a great trick to ease yourself into cutting things. It sometimes even helps to first move semi-extraneous points down to the footnotes, because then in becomes easier to cut footnotes out in a second read-through. But as @SunshineLolipops says, create a new document called "scrap" or something and put the things you cut there. You could end up wanting a line back from it, or it could become useful later if this paper is relevant to your thesis/dissertation/broader project. Or, at the very least, it allows you to visually see just how much you're able to cut, which sometimes makes the more concise end product feel like more of an accomplishment. Good luck!

[Eigen]

I usually find it's easier to cut the text I like into a new document rather than cut things I'm not going to use out into a secondary one. 

[Quickmick]

Just a thought, but you might want to consider what a lengthy submission is telling your professor. It seems to suggest, "I know you said 10 pages, and there are 10 of us, but I've decided that of the many constraints placed on your time it is best spent reading 5 extra pages from me (or) this is absolutely the best thing you will read all term so I am worth it." Both of those cases seem like probable long shots. Last term I had a fellow who said 10ish--don't give me 5 unless you are incredible at being terse and don't give me 15 unless you are a savant with a break-though. My point is just that their time is important.
 This term I had a paper that I could tell was shaping up to run over, so I just sent an email over explaining that I know you wanted 10 but I am running long (to 18) and asking if is that OK or should I cut it. He said long is fine but try to get it to 14. So, I got to be long and practice separating the wheat from the chaff. Communicating seemed to be the most direct approach for me.

[Averroes MD]

Dear all, 

I must admit that I was a bit annoyed when I initially read responses in this thread. This was because I was hoping you'd all just say, "long is fine as long as it is good." 

Fortunately for me, you all did not let me proceed in my folly. You guys really saved my goose. Judging by the consensus on this forum, I think I would have been royally screwed if I had submitted what I had planned to submit.

Anyways, it took me two days--at least 7 hours on each day--to get the essay down to the page limit. And I really hate to admit it, but it's a much better piece now.

So, thank you.

P.S. Thank you also for the specific recommendation about copying and pasting into a new document. I actually did that three times. So, it took me three passes to get it down. But, the process allowed me tighten the argument and improve the flow. I'm REALLY pleased with the end result. Thank you!!

Yours, 
Contrite.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Averroes MD

[AP]

On 5/10/2016 at 0:01 AM, Averroes MD said:

Dear all, 

I must admit that I was a bit annoyed when I initially read responses in this thread. This was because I was hoping you'd all just say, "long is fine as long as it is good." 

Fortunately for me, you all did not let me proceed in my folly. You guys really saved my goose. Judging by the consensus on this forum, I think I would have been royally screwed if I had submitted what I had planned to submit.

Anyways, it took me two days--at least 7 hours on each day--to get the essay down to the page limit. And I really hate to admit it, but it's a much better piece now.

So, thank you.

P.S. Thank you also for the specific recommendation about copying and pasting into a new document. I actually did that three times. So, it took me three passes to get it down. But, the process allowed me tighten the argument and improve the flow. I'm REALLY pleased with the end result. Thank you!!

Yours, 
Contrite.

Great! 

BTW, most us (I think) gave this advice because either we also wrote endless papers at some point or we got this advice from someone early on and were able to avoid over-the-limit writing. In my case, I learned it the hard way, editing and editing, and now I am so used to write more concisely that I can focus more on scholarship and less on paragraph structure. It's a process, but a good one. Today it took you two days, tomorrow only one. 

Most importantly here, you listened to advice. You asked something hoping to get responses to reassure your view and, instead, you got the opposite. And you were humble enough to admit that view was erroneous and change it for your own good. That's, I think, a more important progress than editing. Asking and accepting advice from peers is what we do every day (think about tenure promotion, peer reviews, comments in conferences). You asked for help and you took it, despite your previous approach to writing. This is not easy to do because no one wants to admit they need help or guidance. But we are in grad school to learn. So, congratulations on making a better professional out of yourself. 

(I've just re-read this and it sounds very motivational, sorry!!! hahaha)

AP

[Averroes MD]

On 5/25/2016 at 1:18 PM, AP said:

Great! 

BTW, most us (I think) gave this advice because either we also wrote endless papers at some point or we got this advice from someone early on and were able to avoid over-the-limit writing. In my case, I learned it the hard way, editing and editing, and now I am so used to write more concisely that I can focus more on scholarship and less on paragraph structure. It's a process, but a good one. Today it took you two days, tomorrow only one. 

Most importantly here, you listened to advice. You asked something hoping to get responses to reassure your view and, instead, you got the opposite. And you were humble enough to admit that view was erroneous and change it for your own good. That's, I think, a more important progress than editing. Asking and accepting advice from peers is what we do every day (think about tenure promotion, peer reviews, comments in conferences). You asked for help and you took it, despite your previous approach to writing. This is not easy to do because no one wants to admit they need help or guidance. But we are in grad school to learn. So, congratulations on making a better professional out of yourself. 

(I've just re-read this and it sounds very motivational, sorry!!! hahaha)

AP

Thank you very much for your kind words.

And thank you again all for your forthright feedback and constructive criticism.

It is no doubt because of your help that I was fortunate enough to get an A on the paper. And the professor, who is a big shot in his field, told me that it was a very impressive article. Glad it worked out well.

[Chiqui74]

My professors have worked around this issue by specifying WORD limit rather than page limit.  Since everything is turned in electronically, they know how many words you wrote.

Keeping written work within the stipulated length is an exercise that will serve well later on when you have to submit articles, book reviews, etc for publication when length requirements are strictly enforced.  Rather than fudge the margins, give your work a thorough look and see where you can be more concise.  Just a thought.

I used to joke than in college I'd make the margins bigger so it looked like I wrote more, and in grad school I had to make them smaller so I could cram everything in the maximum number of pages allowed.  I never actually did that, but it was the sentiment that counted

[TMP]

At least -- if you submitted your paper electronically -- you didn't get the treatment that i gave my undergrads.  I simply turned on "Track Changes" and made appropriate adjustments if I see a "trick" with spacing/margins and then proceeded to grade the paper.

[Neist]

I'm commenting in here a bit late, but subtle changes in formatting is very noticeable, especially when grading printed papers.

Grade 30 papers and tell me you can't tell that a font size is slightly larger.  

[Concordia]

Earlier this year I submitted a master's thesis to Cambridge, and came up against a pretty ruthless style guide.  Size of paper was mandatory, and while there was room to maneuver on margins and fonts, they didn't give you much.  

But the main thing was that they were using word counts, with appropriate adjustments for tables and illustrations as necessary.  I think I was able to get mine in at three words under the maximum.