BA to MA or PhD?

[ashley623]

I am graduating from my undergrad this week, and strictly applying to terminal MA programs. My reasons for this are:
-I feel like I could be a more competitive PhD candidate if I earn my MA first
-The prospect of committing to five/six more years of school immediately is daunting
-I'm only applying to out-of-state programs, and I'm not sure I would want to live in a new place for that long in case I don't like it
-I want to more narrowly define my research interests while earning my MA before committing to a PhD
-(perhaps most obviously) some of the PhD programs I'm interested require a separate MA degree first 

However, I've had a few people think I should just be going straight for my PhD. What did everyone else do, and why? 

Edited December 11, 2017 by katie64

[sarahchristine]

I have a lot of the same concerns and am applying to terminal MA programs. 

[WildeThing]

I will have done 2 MAs before going into PhD (hopefully) next year. I do think it makes you more ready, but I can't comment on how that reflects with selection committees. That said, many PhD programs will make you do the MA on the way to the PhD either way, so even if you get an MA somewhere else first you might have to commit to a place for 5-6 years anyway.

[Dogfish Head]

I am applying to a mix of MA and PhD programs out of my undergrad so I feel you. I am mostly applying to MA programs, though. From my understanding, most programs look at a MA favorable and there are only a few programs (like PSU) that look down on applicants who already have an MA.

[RydraWong]

I am currently a first-year in a PhD program and came straight through from undergrad. During my application season, I applied to a mix of MA/PhD programs and had a lot of the same reservations you named — not feeling like I wanted to commit right away to five/six years of graduate work, not thinking I was really ready for graduate coursework, etc. I ended up getting into all the MA programs I applied to and four PhD programs and still considered just doing the MA because I still wasn't sure I was ready. However, most of the PhD programs I was accepted to allow you to leave with a MA in hand after two years and that really helped my decision making process. It's hard to know right out of undergrad if you are right for/ready for six years of intense graduate work but I don't think that's just for people that go straight through — I've seen a lot of people question whether they want to do grad school/whether academia is for them and these are people who have taken time off too! I decided to do the PhD because that was six guaranteed years and honestly if it ended up not being for me, I'd leave with a funded masters and figure something else to do. People leave programs all the time for all sorts of reasons. 

So I guess my advice would be if you're on the fence about whether you want to apply to PhD programs also and if you have the funds, apply and see what happens! 

Edited December 12, 2017 by RydraWong

[Concordia]

Options have value.

Time (before making a final decision) is an option.

Things that have value usually have a cost.

Your call.

 

Edited December 12, 2017 by Concordia

[mk-8]

On 12/11/2017 at 11:58 AM, katie64 said:

I am graduating from my undergrad this week, and strictly applying to terminal MA programs. My reasons for this are:
-I feel like I could be a more competitive PhD candidate if I earn my MA first
-The prospect of committing to five/six more years of school immediately is daunting
-I'm only applying to out-of-state programs, and I'm not sure I would want to live in a new place for that long in case I don't like it
-I want to more narrowly define my research interests while earning my MA before committing to a PhD
-(perhaps most obviously) some of the PhD programs I'm interested require a separate MA degree first 

However, I've had a few people think I should just be going straight for my PhD. What did everyone else do, and why? 

I think your reasoning is sound. 

Almost all of the PhD programs I was interested in applying to as an undegrad required an MA. Some were MA/PhD, but not many. I ended up only applying to MA programs. I definitely advocate for a lot of the reasons you mentioned.

Personally, I really can't begin to describe how much my research interests have changed since starting my MA. I mostly applied to schools that had PhD programs that I was also interested in; that helped me get a feel for the area and help decide if I wanted to dedicate much more time in the same place. 

[ashley623]

Thank you, everyone. @mk-8, that's pretty much exactly how I feel. Purdue in particular has a PhD program I'm interested in that's 30 hours of coursework, and they require an MA first. I'm going with my gut on this one and just going to stick to the MA programs. Whew.

[punctilious]

My husband has a BA and is only applying to PhDs. However, he knows he wants a PhD and has had a couple years of ‘real life experience’ outside of school to think about this. We’ll see what happens!

[xolo]

Just a thought to keep your options open. I didn't have any degree in Spanish and was accepted into a few MA programs and one MA/PhD program. I took the MA/PhD program and am really glad I did. I am super non-traditional and can't imagine going through an entire application cycle just two years out at the same time as finishing my MA (which was extremely stressful in itself and I certainly didn't have any time to prepare applications again). So most of the programs were funded but I'm glad I took the one that covers at least six years.

Edited December 13, 2017 by xolo

[JustPoesieAlong]

On 12/11/2017 at 10:58 AM, katie64 said:

-The prospect of committing to five/six more years of school immediately is daunting
-I'm only applying to out-of-state programs, and I'm not sure I would want to live in a new place for that long in case I don't like it

These were my two big reasons for choosing an MA program over an MA/PhD opportunity. I had never been away from my family and wasn't sure how I would manage. I also wasn't entirely sure I was ready to commit to six years of training. 

In the end, I am very glad that I chose this route, especially because I still wasn't ready to commit to a doctoral degree at the end of my master's program. I enjoyed my work immensely and think I did well in my program, but just wondered if there were other opportunities that would bring me similar satisfaction. After two years out, though, I am ready to return. I've been working as an editor and writer for a research institution and, as much as I like my job, it doesn't excite me the way my academic pursuits do. 

I don't know if having an MA makes me more competitive, but I have gotten a sense from POIs and other knowledgeable folks I've talked with that the certainty and maturity I've gained both from my master's degree and my time out of school makes me at the very least a more interesting candidate--if not more attractive. 

The one caveat I would add is that I attended an MA program that was fully funded with a very nice stipend. I may feel differently if I had been facing the prospect of significant debt for the MA. 

 

Edited December 20, 2017 by JustPoesieAlong

[JustPoesieAlong]

On 12/13/2017 at 9:18 AM, xolo said:

I am super non-traditional and can't imagine going through an entire application cycle just two years out at the same time as finishing my MA (which was extremely stressful in itself and I certainly didn't have any time to prepare applications again).

Oh boy, me neither. I am really glad I took the time to just finish my thesis without fretting over grad school apps. Of course, that meant I had to scurry in order to find a job right after, but it wasn't too terrible since my husband was working as well and could cover the rent. Like I mention above, I took a couple of years off before deciding to try for PhD programs, and I'm very glad I did. Not only did it give me a chance to make some money and gain additional experience but it also gave me a good amount of time to mull over my materials--especially my writing sample--and read more about the line of interest I'd like to pursue. 

[ashley623]

Yes, I've only applied to programs with good funding. 

I'm feeling confident again about applying to programs that are only MA. Also, even though this is ironic because I recently broke up with my boyfriend so that I wouldn't have any baggage when moving away, I would really like to find a partner and have children in the next 5+/- years; it's a huge desire of mine, much bigger than a PhD right now, so I'm happy with my decision to only pursue the MA at this stage in my life.

[Warelin]

On 12/20/2017 at 8:08 PM, katie64 said:

Yes, I've only applied to programs with good funding. 

I'm feeling confident again about applying to programs that are only MA.

Are you applying to English or Rhetoric programs?
What are some of your potential interests?

[Indecisive Poet]

On 12/11/2017 at 3:58 PM, Dogfish Head said:

I am applying to a mix of MA and PhD programs out of my undergrad so I feel you. I am mostly applying to MA programs, though. From my understanding, most programs look at a MA favorable and there are only a few programs (like PSU) that look down on applicants who already have an MA.

I know this post is a little old, but this raised a flag for me -- I will be applying to PhDs for 2020 entry with an M.A. and had PSU on my (very large and ready to be narrowed-down) list. Wasn't aware of this. Can you elaborate?

[Dogfish Head]

1 hour ago, indecisivepoet said:

I know this post is a little old, but this raised a flag for me -- I will be applying to PhDs for 2020 entry with an M.A. and had PSU on my (very large and ready to be narrowed-down) list. Wasn't aware of this. Can you elaborate?

Yeah, of course. When I was talking on the phone with the assistant director of their English graduate program she said that they prefer to take students directly from undergrad, and she also said to me that there are other programs like that. PSU and these other schools will still take students who have MAs from other institutions (and I think that this mentality of undergad straight to PhD is going away), but it is simply not what they prefer. When emailing directors just ask if there program looks favorably on applicants with MAs. Let me know if you have any other questions, I will also be applying for 2020 entry with an MA.

[Indecisive Poet]

23 hours ago, Dogfish Head said:

Yeah, of course. When I was talking on the phone with the assistant director of their English graduate program she said that they prefer to take students directly from undergrad, and she also said to me that there are other programs like that. PSU and these other schools will still take students who have MAs from other institutions (and I think that this mentality of undergad straight to PhD is going away), but it is simply not what they prefer. When emailing directors just ask if there program looks favorably on applicants with MAs. Let me know if you have any other questions, I will also be applying for 2020 entry with an MA.

Thanks so much for the info! Your phrasing is making me think I should be emailing and/or calling directors of the programs I'm interested in. Do you think this is necessary, and what kind of info are you looking for when you do this?

[Dogfish Head]

51 minutes ago, indecisivepoet said:

Thanks so much for the info! Your phrasing is making me think I should be emailing and/or calling directors of the programs I'm interested in. Do you think this is necessary, and what kind of info are you looking for when you do this?

When I email directors I often ask questions about program selectivity (how many applicants vs. how many acceptances), TT placement rate, what in their view are the research strengths of their department, and other things that I cannot find on their site. It isn't necessary, but it certainly can be helpful.

[Indecisive Poet]

1 hour ago, Dogfish Head said:

When I email directors I often ask questions about program selectivity (how many applicants vs. how many acceptances), TT placement rate, what in their view are the research strengths of their department, and other things that I cannot find on their site. It isn't necessary, but it certainly can be helpful.

Thank you! That does sound super helpful -- I've found that most websites don't have a clear picture of what their research strengths are.

[Kilos]

On 5/20/2018 at 11:57 AM, Dogfish Head said:

Yeah, of course. When I was talking on the phone with the assistant director of their English graduate program she said that they prefer to take students directly from undergrad, and she also said to me that there are other programs like that. PSU and these other schools will still take students who have MAs from other institutions (and I think that this mentality of undergad straight to PhD is going away), but it is simply not what they prefer. When emailing directors just ask if there program looks favorably on applicants with MAs. Let me know if you have any other questions, I will also be applying for 2020 entry with an MA.

I feel that it's worth reiterating what @Dogfish Head brings up just to emphasize that there's no defined, recommended path to a PhD program (or graduate school in general), and most admissions committees are cognizant of this throughout the process. Even in PSU's own response, while they admit they have a preference, they state that they take people from all walks. I've heard similar things from other programs, and the program I'm joining said that they try to bring in a mix to maintain a diversity of perspectives. Some people go directly from high school to undergraduate and then apply to MA/PhD programs with a full academic year left before graduation; others take years off after high school, years off after undergraduate, and even years off after a MA; still others make mid-career shifts and successfully apply to MA/PhD programs in unrelated fields. There's definitely something to be said for checking all of the important boxes on an application, but, in general, I think that people need to back away from the notion that unless you've freshly popped out of the mold you're going to be outclassed or under-qualified. Everybody knows that these programs are hypercompetitive, but what matters most isn't that you followed some socially acceptable educational timeline--it's that you're bright as hell, you have a strong grasp on the field you want to be a scholar in, you're passionate about devoting a huge chunk of your life to academia, and you're adept enough at your craft that you're able to demonstrate to a group of complete strangers, in writing, all of the above. 

Poring over these forums for years now has only reinforced this perspective; I've now read countless stories from more people than I can recall, and although there are certainly a lot of traditional students, there are just as many who take their own paths and succeed. I'm one of those oddball stories. I'm a nontraditional student with undergraduate degrees in two fields from two very different universities from two points in my life that now feel like distant worlds. I was several years into my second serious career when I applied (last year) and was accepted directly into a PhD program. I applied to PhD programs because I knew (beyond a shadow of a doubt) that my end goal was to get a doctorate and teach. If I was less sure about that, I might have applied to a bunch of MA programs instead.

To segue back and try to answer @katie64's original question: The only person who can answer the BA to MA or PhD question is you. I know it's a cop-out answer, but it's true. If you're unsure about whether you want to spend the rest of your life as an academic, the MA is probably the best choice (if funded). It gives you a bit more exposure, it lets you get a better feel for what you're doing within the field, and it gives you a bright red "EXIT" sign after two years; it also has the added benefit of making you a (theoretically) more appealing PhD applicant down the road. Contrarily, if you're dead-set on a doctorate and you know that's where your career goals lie, why NOT apply for the PhD programs? As people have mentioned, it's typically possible to bow out after getting the MA, you usually have a better shot at funding, and some programs prefer applicants straight out of BA programs. The downside? Way more competitive. There are countless factors to consider, including location, prestige (arguably not that important), funding (arguably the most important), climate (both academic and meteorological), research specialization, on and on--but all of these are rooted in questions that only the applicant can vet and answer.

In my opinion, the bottom line is that anybody asking themselves this question needs to do some serious soul-searching about where they see their lives headed and which degree best supports that direction of travel. 

[mads47]

On 5/20/2018 at 7:26 AM, indecisivepoet said:

I know this post is a little old, but this raised a flag for me -- I will be applying to PhDs for 2020 entry with an M.A. and had PSU on my (very large and ready to be narrowed-down) list. Wasn't aware of this. Can you elaborate?

I'd like to elaborate on what @Dogfish Head said. I am starting the MA at PSU in the Fall, and I asked specifically about this, since it has come up on these forums before. They told me that they almost always accept at least 1 student directly into the Ph.D. program. But it depends on how many MA students continue into the Ph.D. program. If an MA student decides to transfer or not continue for their Ph.D., then their spot will be given to an outside candidate. 

While I realize this might be not be what you wanted to hear, I don't think it should discourage you from applying, especially since PSU is part of the Big Ten free app alliance, so you don't need to spend a dime on the application. 

[Warelin]

Small note here: Unless it's changed this year, PSU only grants a B10 Fee Waiver to applicants who don't have a Master's degree.