Need advice- thinking of leaving graduate school

[Luis_981741]

Hi,

I'm a second year graduate student at a top university. I'm seeking advice because I am thinking of leaving my graduate program. I started graduate school last year through the chemistry PhD program at my university although I had a background in biology. I did research as an undergraduate and presented a poster at a major conference and did okay in my lab. The reason I wanted to do more chemistry in graduate school is because I liked learning about small molecule synthesis as an undergraduate and wanted to combine both chemistry and biology. I took a gap year between undergrad and grad school and worked at a small biotech start-up. I performed very well there and my boss thought I would perform quite well in graduate school. I even got advice from the CEO about his experience in graduate school and got great letters of recommendation. Coming from a underrepresented minority group background, getting into graduate school meant a huge deal to me and I left the company with great confidence and excitement. However, that quickly changed within my first few months at the university. Having no more organic chemistry background than what was necessary to complete my bachelor's, I was placed in remedial chemistry courses my first quarter while taking additional courses required for everyone in my cohort. I also started TAing my first quarter while trying to find a lab to rotate in. Between juggling classes, TAing, and rotating I quickly crumbled. I was overwhelmed by not performing well in my classes and having little time to do anything in my rotation lab. At the end of my first quarter I was put on probation due to the grades in my classes and on top of that I was unable to find a next rotation. I also got a notice from my department saying that they were not going to be able to fund me anymore since I was supported through a TAship and I could not TA with the GPA I had at the end of my first quarter. Finally after lots of hurdles, my department was able to allow me to TA again. I also got a warning from my department that I had to raise my grades and find a lab I could join by the beginning of the spring quarter or I would be dismissed. At that point, I had entered a deep depression. I had never performed that badly in my undergraduate university. I was paranoid, unconfident, and stressed out all the time which made concentrating in classes very difficult. I knew something was wrong and so I sought counseling. This helped me calm down and slowly regain my focus in class. I found a tutor to help me understand the subjects for my classes and while I was still struggling I did the best I could to show my department I was making progress. To make a long story short, sadly at the end of my second quarter I was told by my department I would be dismissed. At this point I entered an even deeper depression and felt incredibly ashamed. I only thought of how I could explain what happened to people back home.  Amazingly, when I told my undergraduate PI about my situation, she introduced me to the head of a different graduate program at the same university. I told him my story and he was willing to give me a shot in the biosciences program. He was incredibly supportive from the momment we met and said I just simply was not a good match for my previous program. The only condition was that I had to find a lab I could join by the summer. As you might expect, this was a difficult task because by the end of the year most PIs had made their decisions on the people they would take and I also had to explain my situation. Surprisingly, I found a lab I could join. It was not the most interesting research, but the pi had heard of my story in grad school and by the end of my short rotation, she wanted me to join. Now that I think back to it, I feel like the only reason but joined is so I could stay and I was really forcing myself to like the work. I was just amazed as to how supportive she was even though she knew how I had performed my previous quarters in grad school. Now here I am wondering if I should stay, and why you ask? Because I feel like I am not good enough to be in graduate school. Even though I try my best to hide it, I still feel very stressed all the time and highly unmotivated about my project. Although my pi says I am making good progress, I simply do not believe her and just think that she is simply saying that to be supportive. I don't think I'm nearly as smart as the other graduate students in my lab and I'm afraid she will start to notice my lack in motivation. I want to change this mindset but all I can think of is leaving. I'm sorry for the long post but any advice would be truly appreciated. 

 

[Eigen]

Grad school is a whole different ballgame than undergrad and the transition can be rough. Especially if you're changing programs! Going into synthetic organic with just sophomore level OChem background would be rough.

Keep up with the therapy, realize that imposter syndrome is very normal, and focus on where you are now. 

Grad school is all about he research- classes are just something you do at the start and have to get through. Don't let bad coursework early stop you from doing well where you are now! Several of my colleagues (who are now faculty) were on and off academic probation all through grad school. They didn't let it shake them, focused on the work, and did fine. 

[GreenEyedTrombonist]

This professor has no reason to sugarcoat your progress and current work level. If they are complimenting you, they mean it. 

As Eigen said, imposter syndrome is a very real son of a bitch that most (if not all) people have to deal with at one point or another (especially in grad school). I really hope you are keeping up with the counseling as it can help with those thoughts and, as you've noticed before, keep you focused on your goal. 

Keep your eye on the prize and keep up the good work. I'm sorry the transition was so difficult for you (and as someone with no undergrad chem, I am utterly blown away by your tenacity to learn such advanced chem-even if your grades weren't what you wanted) and I'm glad that you're now in a field in which you're able to make progress. Feel free to vent here anytime if need be, but it sounds like you're doing well (despite your thoughts to the contrary). Don't give up! <3

[djp715]

Are you feeling unmotivated because your heart isn't with this particular lab or because you don't feel you're good enough?  If it's the former, maybe with your good performance, you can switch to a lab that is closer to your interests?  If it's the latter, I would encourage you to keep going with the counseling and try to ride through it.  I don't think it's uncommon to reach a slump late in the first year and the second year.  It's a big decision to leave and if you find a way to go through the motions and keep going, I think then you'll have a better idea whether it's a passing slump or a more permanent feeling.  If you find it's more permanent after a year or so, then maybe revisit the idea of leaving and maybe by then you'll have a master's through your program.  Sorry you're feeling so rough about things.  

[historicallinguist]

22 hours ago, Luis_981741 said:

Hi,

I'm a second year graduate student at a top university. I'm seeking advice because I am thinking of leaving my graduate program. I started graduate school last year through the chemistry PhD program at my university although I had a background in biology. I did research as an undergraduate and presented a poster at a major conference and did okay in my lab. The reason I wanted to do more chemistry in graduate school is because I liked learning about small molecule synthesis as an undergraduate and wanted to combine both chemistry and biology. I took a gap year between undergrad and grad school and worked at a small biotech start-up. I performed very well there and my boss thought I would perform quite well in graduate school. I even got advice from the CEO about his experience in graduate school and got great letters of recommendation. Coming from a underrepresented minority group background, getting into graduate school meant a huge deal to me and I left the company with great confidence and excitement. However, that quickly changed within my first few months at the university. Having no more organic chemistry background than what was necessary to complete my bachelor's, I was placed in remedial chemistry courses my first quarter while taking additional courses required for everyone in my cohort. I also started TAing my first quarter while trying to find a lab to rotate in. Between juggling classes, TAing, and rotating I quickly crumbled. I was overwhelmed by not performing well in my classes and having little time to do anything in my rotation lab. At the end of my first quarter I was put on probation due to the grades in my classes and on top of that I was unable to find a next rotation. I also got a notice from my department saying that they were not going to be able to fund me anymore since I was supported through a TAship and I could not TA with the GPA I had at the end of my first quarter. Finally after lots of hurdles, my department was able to allow me to TA again. I also got a warning from my department that I had to raise my grades and find a lab I could join by the beginning of the spring quarter or I would be dismissed. At that point, I had entered a deep depression. I had never performed that badly in my undergraduate university. I was paranoid, unconfident, and stressed out all the time which made concentrating in classes very difficult. I knew something was wrong and so I sought counseling. This helped me calm down and slowly regain my focus in class. I found a tutor to help me understand the subjects for my classes and while I was still struggling I did the best I could to show my department I was making progress. To make a long story short, sadly at the end of my second quarter I was told by my department I would be dismissed. At this point I entered an even deeper depression and felt incredibly ashamed. I only thought of how I could explain what happened to people back home.  Amazingly, when I told my undergraduate PI about my situation, she introduced me to the head of a different graduate program at the same university. I told him my story and he was willing to give me a shot in the biosciences program. He was incredibly supportive from the momment we met and said I just simply was not a good match for my previous program. The only condition was that I had to find a lab I could join by the summer. As you might expect, this was a difficult task because by the end of the year most PIs had made their decisions on the people they would take and I also had to explain my situation. Surprisingly, I found a lab I could join. It was not the most interesting research, but the pi had heard of my story in grad school and by the end of my short rotation, she wanted me to join. Now that I think back to it, I feel like the only reason but joined is so I could stay and I was really forcing myself to like the work. I was just amazed as to how supportive she was even though she knew how I had performed my previous quarters in grad school. Now here I am wondering if I should stay, and why you ask? Because I feel like I am not good enough to be in graduate school. Even though I try my best to hide it, I still feel very stressed all the time and highly unmotivated about my project. Although my pi says I am making good progress, I simply do not believe her and just think that she is simply saying that to be supportive. I don't think I'm nearly as smart as the other graduate students in my lab and I'm afraid she will start to notice my lack in motivation. I want to change this mindset but all I can think of is leaving. I'm sorry for the long post but any advice would be truly appreciated. 

 

I think you should stay for a while and see how things go in this new lab. One thing you could do is to take some GPA booster easy courses as your elective courses to bring up your GPA. For this matter, my bet is that you check out ratemyprofessor.com and see what students said about the instructor's easiness.(don't get me wrong, there are lots of problems with the website, but my personal experience seems to suggest that the evaluation of the easiness of the instructor is generally quite accurate)

[Eigen]

Taking easy classes to boost GPA is a horrible idea in grad school. It's a waste of your time and effort. 

Take fewer classes, and then just don't worry about the GPA much.

Taking professors because they're easy (rather than because they'll be good, knowledgable faculty who can be future colleagues) isn't a good thing. Taking electives that aren't in line with your research interests is just a waste of your time and effort, even if they're easy. 

[dr. t]

On 12/25/2017 at 9:53 PM, Luis_981741 said:

I feel like I am not good enough to be in graduate school.

You're not good enough to be in graduate school.

No one is good enough to be in graduate school. There is no great platonic abstract of "good enough" which, if obtained, opens the path to tenure with a choir of angels. Everyone's a failure. Everyone is faking it. No one knows what they're doing. Usually, we call this "adulthood". 

Others have given pretty good advice already, and mine is fairly simple: being shit at something is a necessary first step towards being good at something. "Talent" and "natural ability" are bullshit terms that mask the absurd amounts of hard work and/or social conditioning of people assumed to have them. 

Failing isn't an indelible stain on your character. It's a starting point.

[dr. t]

Oh yeah, this too:

[AP]

There are two issues at stake here:

1) Imposter syndrome.

I feel you. I got imposter syndrome in my 4th year. I felt inadequate, stupid, slow, and I was wondering all the time why the heck my advisor kept supporting me. I just couldn't buy that I was actually good. Fortunately, I got the help I needed. Continue with therapy, it will help you develop techniques to put those feelings aside. Don't make decisions based on feelings because feelings are temporary (although, granted, they may last a long time, in which case we would want to avoid that situation altogether). 

2) Career goals

I think you should ask yourself what you want out of grad school. Why are you here? What are your career goals? Where do you see yourself in five, ten, twenty years? What do you like doing? This is the question that matters the most, because depending on what your goals are you will make a smarter decision. If you want to do research because you like it, then stay, but develop a set of tools to deal with the spiky stuff. In my case, I have some "doors" I never open (or try not to open) like comparing myself to others in my field, wondering about the job market (just worrying about it), fearing shame of not finishing, etc. It is not beneficial to me to put myself in imaginary situations that distract me from work and paralyze me from doing anything about it. Work with your counselor. 

[ShewantsthePhD101]

When I started grad school I cried myself to sleep every night for about two months. I was lonely. I was broke. I was struggling. I had one professor suggest I drop out. Twice. Grad school sucks pretty much all the way around. But since fall 2016 I've also participated in my first academic conference, been published half a dozen times, and gotten a position as an editor for an academic journal. We're all stressed and tired and think we suck. I try to fall back on the fact that my school wouldn't have accepted me if I didn't deserve it. Then of course you'll have the "I just tricked them into thinking I was good enough" thoughts, but heck, if you can trick a school, you can make it in the field. As telkanuru said, none of us are good enough. Determination will get you a lot further than being "good enough" or "intelligent" will.

[lambda]

I mirror everyone else's comments.

Keep seeing a counselor to help your feelings of inadequacy. Those killed my postbac research as well, and when you free yourself of them, you will be shocked at how much more you can progress. Imposter syndrome is real, and beyond that, it is OKAY to flounder. Overcoming those challenges is what grad school is all about, and moreover, how science advances.