psychology_student_

I'm not worrying much about it (I'm moving from large west coast metro to small midwest town). It's a new experience for sure and it isn't easy to be open to new and unknown things, but you're not the first person to move to Carbondale, IL. There is are communities waiting for you there if you're willing to step outside some comfort zones and give it a go.

then sounds like you obviously need to go with the cheaper option!

sounds like you know what you want and should roll with the fellowship? Room up with graduate students (don't have to be psych students necessarily), split the cost, make it work. Sounds like the program you're in "love" with is the program you should pursue! My partner similarly spent a year with some graduate students to abate the high SF bay area housing prices and totally made it work. I think she found her roommates through a graduate school facebook group of some kind; it can absolutely work!

fwiw, who my LORs were was very intentional. First was my graduate school/thesis advisor (could speak to my organization/commitment to graduate school), second was a professor who I collaborated with as a co-researcher for a journal submission (could speak to my research experience), and third was a graduate professor who had taught one of my classes (could speak to my classwork performance). All three came from my master's program.

No I personally hadn't any connections or networking with the POIs. That could be useful (to personally be connected/networked to a POI) and I think it would be potentially advantageous if your advisor/supervisor/LOR had those connections to your POIs. I say potentially because in my situation this wasn't the case, my LORs didn't personally know my POIs. Personal connection/network with POIs may or may not be a critically understated aspect of the application process, I cant state that as fact like you did. However, I do know that my personal connections with my LORs was huge, and that's what I say having excellent LORs and research experience are most important.

For sure I'm comfortable listing some things. I applied to 15 schools and clinical psychologists (my work research experience was with psychiatry departments) told me to apply to 16 programs if I could. So having that large of a number of schools applied to obviously helped with the number of interviews I received. I was straight rejected from six schools (mostly all R1), and then wait-listed at four R1 schools (one R2 school), and the one acceptance was at an R1. And, ya, as you said and others above, it was all about applying to places where I knew I'd have a solid research fit. And yes, having a good SOP probably helped. I worked on it for a few months and my partner (who's in graduate research at a big R1 uni) read it a couple times making sure it was comprehensible and not presumptuous or pretentious (and if my partner wasn't in my life, I'd have for sure just found some other academic-type of person to review my SOP). LORs were huge too, and I of course waived my right to review them, but one of my interviews commented on how fire my LORs compliments were of me. From my work experience/talking with supervisors and colleagues, I think there are too many extenuating circumstances unique to each school and program to ask why one place will accept a student versus another rejects the same student (POI being assistant versus full, R1 versus R2, the university's sponsoring state trying to decrease or eliminate grad programs to save money, etc, etc). I applied to as many programs that fit with my research goals (and would also waive my tuition/provide stipends) to compensate for this unknown of what's going on within similar (on the surface-level, i.e. R1) psych programs. Also, not even much of a hot take, if any academic discipline is going to be woke to the well known fact that the GRE after year one of graduate school can not be used as metric of student success, it's going to be psychology. I've heard this from, like, a bijjilion psychology professors (there are your metrics lol). Go get good research experience and good LORs!

Interviewed with 9 programs, wait-listed at 5, accepted at 1 (all counseling psych). First time applying. GRE- around 155 Q and 154 V or something like that and a 4 on writing. 2.5 years of full-time research assistant work (2 different uni's) post undergraduate. These jobs were flexible so that I could take late afternoon coursework to earn an MS in psych during these 2.5 years (was non-psych undergrad). A couple national conference poster presentations. POIs and programs I thought I'd be perfect for I got rejected at and the one acceptance I received was to a top program that was by far my biggest reach. Keep on making that plan! I extensively planned and only made it into one program with a straight acceptance, I can't imagine my results had I put any less effort into all this...

Sort of, but I mean most counseling programs are in departments of education so...yeah, if you wanted a PhD in psychology with a counselling concentration then you'd want the masters in the education department. Regardless, yes you should just find a degree/program/department that best fits what it is you're wanting to do and how/if said program can get you there.

It all depends on states, but in some American states with an EdD you can become a licensed "counselor" but not a "psychologist"

I think it'd be extremely rare unfortunately. Some schools "waitlist" or "alternate" all students who interview so they have a good pool of secondary applicants to choose from. I don't think anyone on here would know of such a scenario ever having happened (at least at a reputable program)

It certainly wouldn't technically exclude you. However, if what you're studying or researching in your potential M. Ed doesn't fit with what your clinical psychology program you're wanting to apply to is doing then that would probably exlcude you. All about fit

funding > faculty personality fit > research fit > fit with grad students > location > beauty > gut feeling I ranked research fit third just because that can be a pretty fluid thing. Of course it's super important ,but you may find a new avenue of research from collaboration with faculty/other students/just your personal academic growth in the span of 5-6 years. And follow the $$$$$$; that needs to be priority numero uno, no questions asked. If you can't land a program that will waive tuition (or partially waive), you need to go above and beyond what paying for 4,5,6 years of graduate school means for your financial future. And my gut feeling usually just depends on how hungry I am #Microbiome

I'm assuming you're talking about programs outside of America given your spelling of 'counselling', but since I'm 'Murican I can speak to what goes down here in our 'Murican context. In the US context those two degrees are mainly just semantic differences or differences in what departments they're housed out of. MSc would almost certainly always have a thesis or thesis-like component to it and M.Ed can also easily have such independent research requirements. All just depends on what programs you're speaking about. And yes you can certainly get a PhD in clinical psychology upon earning a degree in either of those master programs. Some people will say the MSc would be more favored versus the M.Ed, but honestly it's simply all about research fit when it comes to being accepting into a PhD psychology program (counseling or clinical).

Columbia is an R1 university (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_research_universities_in_the_United_States) but that sort of just speaks to the mis-information that seems to be sitting around the internet about rankings and what's a "good" program versus not and yada yada. Since programs vary so widely by their research output, leadership, even just general purpose for being a program, I don't really consider any kind of rankings to be of that much consequence or value. (That being said, I am going to be attending one of the most premier ranked instutions this fall, lmao jk idk it's "ranking")

What are these rankings based upon (didn't look earlier in the thread)? Usually "rankings" are based on research production, which kind of automatically relegates R2 schools.

the waitlist was for the University of Kansas

I just turned down a school that I was waitlisted at...so, ya, it for sure happens!!!

Hard to say. I had one brand new PI talking about how excited they were to pilot a survey (i.e. be a few years before publications) whereas another brand new PI I interviewed with had already some established studies from her graduate program and was ready to rock and roll with publishing some of her ongoing research. What is the alternate PI doing (associate or full professor I'm assuming?)

How to respond to a rejection letter (from https://www.socialpsychology.org/reject.htm) Graduate Admissions Committee Department of PsychologyBig Deal UniversityCollegeville, USA Dear Committee Members: Thanks for your letter of March 30. After careful consideration, I regret to inform you that I am unable to accept your rejection at this time. This year I have been particularly fortunate in receiving an unusually large number of rejection letters. With such a varied and promising field of schools, it is impossible for me to accept all refusals. Despite your outstanding record and previous experience in rejecting applicants, I find that your rejection does not meet my current career needs. Consequently, I will begin taking classes as a graduate student in your department this August. I look forward to seeing you then. Best of luck in rejecting future applicants. Sincerely Yours, [Name Withheld]

The only contact I would have with potential faculty is e-mailing if they were accepting students (if not listed on the program's website) or in-person at conferences (i.e. APA student poster session). In the latter I would also just have the conversation be brief and that you were interested in their research/program (to which said faculty member will most likely simply respond with a nice, "Oh, wonderful, I look forward to your application this fall, etc. etc.").

Personal or semi-personal connections are huge from my experience. I think my first accceptance was primarily based on the fact that my POI knew one of my LORs (and I hadn't any idea they knew each other personally, but that seems to have certainly initally captured my POI wanting interview me). I would stronlgy echo advice that's been previously said to really try and find LORs from the field of study to which you're applying and, if possible, LORs who are specifically researching the same research topics to that of your POI.

I'll allow it ?‍⚖️

Didn't you just start the exact same discussion below?...

Yes, I think most everyone would agree that your described scenario of discounting someone for graduate school solely based on their undergraduate institution would be unfair and possibly elitist. No self-respecting clinical or counseling psychology professor would disagree with your take. Students of course get accepted into graduate programs based on what they do in their undergraduate, not simply where they go.

With scores like that your prospects look great. Many clinical and counseling schools would be very interested; it's all about finding your fit with the schools' professors. Many schools waive some course work (courses usually in psychological foundations) if you're coming in with Master's level courses. I applied the first time this cycle having just finished an MS myself and received 9 interviews (applied to 15 schools, but still, very good return on applications). I believe my work in my master's played a big role in receiving the interviews. You should have a bright perspective for your future!