WickedWorld91

Got my official rejection from U of A thesis-option. My course-based is still under review, but still assuming rejection given I was not notified regarding waitlists. Definitely a little frustrated with the thesis-option and did not have my hopes up from the beginning. I reached out to 4 professors regarding supervision in the fall. One was nearing retirement and not taking on anymore students (understandable), one never responded, and two said they weren't sure whether they'd be able to take on a student. Beyond those four I couldn't really stretch my research interests any further without straight up lying. I listed one who didn't respond and one who wasn't sure... so you can see why I was not optimistic. I had a different professor last year after being unsuccessful telling me to "build a relationship with a faculty member". I live in Edmonton. Every prof I emailed either ignored my request to connect or said they did not have the capacity to do so lol.

As the other response suggested, it depends what your career goals are. If you want to practice, those online private institutions are a means to an end. Whether you want to work in academia or in research isn't really dependent on whether the school is private but more so on whether the training model is scholar-practitioner (course-based) or scientist-practitioner (thesis- or dissertation-based). It just so happens that the private universities in Canada are scholar-practitioner, but there's schools in the states that are private that are research intensive. As I said, it is a means to an end if you want to practice. You'll likely be slightly less competitive, but in the end should not have that much trouble finding work. I spoke with a person who did Yorkville and she said many from program had trouble finding practicums, and some clinics/organizations may be less likely to hire you, but from what I can tell it doesn't seem to be too big of an issue getting employed over all. I think the big catch is the cost of tuition. You could go to UBC, live in Vancouver for 2 years, and still pay the same amount of money you would for tuition alone from these private online programs, and they provide very little resources. A red flag for me is the fact that you have to find your own supervised practicum. Most programs that are a fraction of the cost provide you with practicums in clinics and hospitals with PhD supervisors who supervisor students for a living and are held to certain standards of practice. With these online programs (well, Yorkville at least, not sure about Adler), they allow you to pretty much find whoever to supervise you as long as their certified / registered in the field. Again, I think the cost is the big catch. If you have the money or don't mind going into that level of debt for a Masters then it might be a more attractive option. I also think it's more much financially beneficial in Alberta where you can become a psychologist with a Masters. My partner went to a provisional psychologist who had a degree from Yorkville and she was pretty good for the most part. However, I think the reason she was good is because she works at a large clinic with many PhD level Psychologists, so she has colleagues that can provide her with advice/resources and got lots of great supervision from them after finishing at Yorkville. On the other hand, I know someone who went to Yorkville and immediately opened up a private practice on her own with zero experience in the field. Definitely disagree with that, but it happens. The only other thing I'll add is, depending on your age and how many times you've applied, don't get caught up in the Rat Race of life and academia. It's normal for people to apply multiple times, and you can get lots of great experience working in related fields to improve you CV and apply again to programs that cost way less and provide better education and training (more resources overall). I get the feeling of wanting to start your career, but I think working in the field, whether that be a helping role or research, can help give you a better idea of the direction you want to take. Also, if you're primarily focused on practicing in a counselling type role, clinically oriented Social Work programs will allow you to be a counsellor in most provinces I believe.

I think you already got plenty of good advice from others. The biggest thing I would echo is tailoring the application to fit the values of the program and having graduate students or a faculty member from that program review your letter of intent and CV. I would also suggest not restricting yourself geographically. It's not uncommon for people to apply to up to 10 programs, sometimes more (as long as your references are willing). But I get that moving around isn't always practical for many people, especially those of us who are a bit older and more settled. Anyway, the real reason I am responding is to tell you that you are not alone. I am on my fourth year of applications of applying to clinical and counselling programs. I was misinformed when I was in undergrad and told I would have no problem getting into counselling but that clinical was ultra competitive. It turns out both are ultra competitive. I've had four clinical interviews between this year's cycle and last, and never heard back from any counselling programs I've applied to. Admittedly my CV is very clinically oriented, so some of that makes sense. I am literally almost to the point where if it doesn't work out this year, then I am going to apply aggressively for one more year, and if that doesn't work out, I am going to have to make some tough decisions about my career and potentially take a different route. And I refuse to go into a ridiculous amount of debt to pay to go to one of the online programs that essentially have no admission criteria and that are not well recognized after I went back to undergrad in my mid-20s to re-do my education to be a competitive applicant. I am in my early 30s and I am not sure how much longer me and my fiancee (who is well into her career) can deal with this state of limbo Whatever the case, this process is excruciating. The important thing is to approach this with a self-compassionate mindset and to always try to do whatever you can to improve your CV and application. The harsh reality is that the system for clinical and counselling psychology programs is broken in many ways. People want to believe that the system works and that if they do x, y, and z that they should be able to get in. And then for those who do manage to get in there's a sort of attribution bias that happens where they say I got in because of x, y, and z. Don't get me wrong, everyone who manages to get in absolutely worked their butt off and deserve it, but there's also a degree of measurement error and luck involved in the process. My boss is a clinical professor and has gave me many helpful suggestions in improving my application, but also admitted that there is luck involved, which is not an easy thing to hear when you're trying to do all of the right things. When I was in undergrad doing my honours, a grad student who was just finishing their PhD in clinical gave a presentation on applying to clinical and referred to it as a "lottery pick" and spent 10 or 15 minutes talking about how it can be healthy sometimes to disengage from the goal of pursuing clinical lol...It appears that counselling is not far behind in this regard. As you can tell, I am also very jaded by the process lol. And I'm not encouraging a pessimistic / woe is me sort of mindset, I just think it's okay to acknowledge that the system is broken. The country is desperate for well-trained counsellors and psychologists but these programs don't even come close to having the necessary capacities to support the demand. There is no good reason for these programs to be as or more competitive than the top Med Schools in the country. That being said, try and stay positive, be self-compassionate (don't let this influence your self worth), and do what you can to improve your application. I believe that if it's really what you want, you'll find a way to make it happen, even if you have to take a different path than you initially wanted to get there.

Just curious, did they do their undergrad at U of A?

Probably doesn't mean anything, as someone else suggested. But I was wondering the same thing. My thesis based application is still in pre-screen, but the course-based is Under Review.

It is unlikely, however, it might be possible to qualify for a PsyD with that type of Masters. Since you have to complete a dissertation as part of a PhD (i.e., an extensive publishable research project that you have to defend to a committee), you would have to have completed a thesis-based Masters program OR have completed a course-based Masters with additional extensive research experience. The problem with the latter option is that it's challenging to get the necessary research experience to prepare you for a dissertation outside of a Masters program.

Thanks for the response! You are right about broadening the schools I've applied to. I just moved from the Maritimes to Alberta about a year and a half ago so I was reluctant to have to move again unless I got into clinical, but for the next cycle I will definitely be a lot less fussy about geography.

Very helpful, thank you. This is really what I was wondering about leaning on clinical/research background versus counseling experience. Was the program you're in thesis-based?

Thanks for the thoughtful response! I do agree there's a certain prestige around Clinical and people just automatically work towards that without fully realizing why they want to do it or whether they actually enjoy research. However, I am coming at this from a bit of a different angle than you for two reasons: First, I really enjoy research. I have been very reassured in this as I've been working as a full-time research assistant for going on two years and I plan to look for more research jobs once this contract is up. Second, my end goal is becoming a registered psychologist so I have to be careful in the type of Masters that I pursue if I want to move on to a PhD someday. At this point, I don't care whether I get there via Clinical or Counselling. I just want it to be research focused so that I have those skills in case I decide I want a job someday that focuses on research rather than practice. The reality is I want both research and practice, so I am being fussy, but a thesis-based program is really the way to go for me. Unfortunately, these happen to be the most competitive.

Looking for some advice from successful Counselling Psychology (thesis-based) applicants, as well as those who have applied to both counselling and clinical psychology programs. So, I have been applying to both Clinical and Counselling psychology programs for the past 3 cycles. I went into this journey as a mature student realizing how competitive these programs are. This is a big reason why I went back to undergrad a second time so I could complete an honours in psychology and gain research experience. Although both programs are very competitive, I was told by numerous professors and others that counselling was significantly less competitive than Clinical. My ideal outcome has always been clinical, but I still hold counselling in high regard and am very open to this as a "Plan B". However, after applying to the MSc in Counselling Psychology at the University of Calgary three times and the Masters in Counselling (thesis-based) at the University of Alberta one time, I have yet to get an interview. This is not to sound over-confident as I know it is common for people to apply for these programs for multiple years, but I am a bit perplexed how I managed to get an interview this year for a Clinical program but did not get an interview for either of the mentioned counselling programs. Here is my CV in a nutshell: Honours in Psychology (includes thesis) + two independent studies during undergrad, 3.8 GPA, 1 publication, 2 conference presentations, almost two years working with vulnerable populations (non-research), and over a year (currently ongoing) as a full-time research assistant also working with vulnerable populations, and some volunteer experience. I assumed this would competitive for counselling programs. What are people's thoughts when it comes to different things that counselling might look for vs clinical? One thing I thought of is that counselling is looking more so for experience in the field rather than academic related credentials (e.g., publications). I could see how some people might have more experience working with vulnerable populations, although I wouldn't expect most of the younger applicants to have that much more, but maybe. That being said, I would expect thesis-based counselling programs to also value my academic credentials. One mistake I made in my first year of applying was not mentioning anything about social justice or diversity in my personal statement, I've since included a short paragraph on that. I am generally a good writer and have had my research proposal and letters of intent proofed by colleagues. Sorry for the rant. If anyone has any suggestions based on the details I've provided, that would be much appreciated!

There doesn't seem to be much on here regarding Clinical at York University (Toronto). Has anyone heard anything from York or know their process? Thanks.

For those who had an interview with their POI for Research and Clinical Training at McMaster, have you received an email regarding the second round of interviews with the committee?

In Canada, ranking means very little as most counselling programs happen through public universities that are trustworthy and deliver quality education (generally speaking). Unlike the USA where there is a large variation in the quality of both private and public schools, almost all of Canada's graduate level training in psychology happens through these publicly funded universities which are well-respected. There are a few exceptions, like Adler and Yorkville, which are private/for-profit institutions. I can't speak to the quality of the education at such for-profit schools, but they do cost an incredible amount of money (with less available resources) and are generally not research focused, so they may not give you the necessary skills/credentials to pursue a PhD (i.e., if becoming a psychologist in any province other than Alberta is something that might interest you down the road or if you want to do research rather than practice). If you're ranking your options on a personal level, I think the focus should be more so about how the programs fits your needs and interests rather than how, for example, Macleans may have rated the school. We are fortunate in Canada not to have to deal with too many fraudulent type universities, otherwise known as "degree mills". There are many horror stories from the states where people's degree were not recognized in certain states or by certain employers.

I am not applying with a Masters, so I don't have direct insight. However, my supervisor in undergrad encouraged me to apply for Experimental Psych as a back door into Clinical. The thing is, most universities do not recommend doing this, but people still manage to do it. When my supervisor was in grad school in the early 2000s, she knew of multiple people from her Exp. class that got into Clinical at the same University after 1-year of Experimental (they didn't fully complete the Masters). The idea is that if you make a name for yourself, especially with the quality of your research, that you can gain attention from the Clinical faculty. This was just her opinion, I've heard others argue against this. The other scenario, that I think you are getting at, is that you actually fully complete a Masters before applying to Clinical. I think the simple answer to your question is that Yes, it would definitely increase your chances as a clinical applicant. If you look at the Admissions Data for Clinical, you'll notice more and more successful applicants who already had Masters. Unfortunately, this way is also a lot of extra work if it's not what you actually want to do.

Thanks for the insight. It makes a lot of sense logistically that they'd interview everyone within a certain time span rather than holding more interviews later on, that's what I was thinking.