teasel

Thanks for the reassurance ?Interesting that serif fonts tend to be more legible! Northwestern was the only school I applied to that specifically instructed applicants to use TNR, and those instructions only appeared in the sections for the creative and academic writing samples. Iowa instructed applicants to use a 12-point font  for the creative writing sample. As I read over this response, I’m seeing the extent to which the anticipation is driving me up the walls ?

So you're telling me I shouldn't have used Jokerman font for my SOP and Wingdings for my work sample?! It's experimental, I thought they'd like it. ?

Until there is better funding from our society for the arts, the process for selecting who gets that funding will have to be competitive. I don't know that I agree that it is particularly elitist - thought there is some MFA snobbery on the publishing side (agents, magazines, publishers). From what I understand, Iowa is quite fair in their assessments and really looks to the writing sample.
Who has access to MFAs has gotten more diverse in terms of race, nationality, gender identity, economics, etc. in recent years (though the lit world really is still SO white).
When you say it is "elitist", can you explain in what sense? How would you like to change that? 

What do you suggest as an alternative? 

Sure, of course this is true, and I do not mean to discount this at all. My comments were less specifically a critique of her or of Iowa than they were of the system more generally. Only mentioned Samantha because she was mentioned in the initial quote

My point is just that this process of credentialization actually excludes a whole new group of people, even as it creates a means of entry for members of previously excluded groups. This group is, basically, people without bachelors degrees, people with bachelors degrees from other countries (many US universities do not accept 3 year Indian degrees for example), or folks who are unable to attend graduate school in the US for any other reason. That's all. What you say is absolutely true and I do not question it. The process of credentialization has benefited many people and brought many folks (who otherwise would've been excluded, again) into the fold. I just think that we can widen the umbrella a bit more

Not to mention, they’re the ones who will have to work with you for the next 2-3 years. I would not like it if they hired people for me to oversee for three years without my approval
I’m not sure what the benefit of applying to study under certain mentors would be if unrelated people selected the candidates. If the people mentoring you don’t value your work or see it’s potential, I’m not see you’ll get much out of those years. 

Fellow applicant here—I want to push back on this a little bit! Iowa's director is a woman of color who has arguably paved the way for tons of writers to find commercial success, many of whom wouldn't have had as much support under previous directors (Carmen M. Machado actually tweeted about this recently). I think it's easy from the outside to see this as a form of gatekeeping—and in a way it is—but I think in another way it's an opened door for writers who wouldn't have had these opportunities otherwise.

I think you should be fine! Honestly as long an applicant uses a proper size (11-12 seems standard) and avoids things like comic sans/papyrus/chancellor I don't think it makes much of a difference. Some of the programs I applied to were specific when it came to formatting, but as long as you read the directions I don't see why it would matter. Serif fonts tend to be more legible than sans-serif fonts though, hence why TNR tends to be standard vs something like arial.  This is just what my typography/design professor told me, for what it's worth! 

A few days peace would be nice. Thank you very much, @telkanuru ! 
I received five or six rejections from high-tier pubs the past couple months--even when you prepare yourself, it still sucks.  I have some poems coming out this summer, tho! You just gotta be persistent and try not to have too many expectations. Even when a writer's work is highly polished and unique, it's still a very subjective process. I usually give myself one day to kinda feel sorry for myself--I'll make a really elaborate dinner, drink some wine, binge watch a show. Basically nothing writing related, unless I'm super absorbed in something that doesn't remind me of my inadequacies haha. I also listen to a lot of guided meditations when the thought of rejection stresses me out. 

Personally I don't have a rejection wall, but I admire those who use it to endure! I just think having a visual representation of my rejections would make me focus too much on the difficult part of the writing life, when I'd much rather surround myself with totems of  success/inspiration. That's just me tho : ) 
 
Do you guys have a back up plan if you don't get in this round? I am thinking of trying to get a teaching certification. Obviously I'm trying to be positive! But I'm curious to hear what you guys have been thinking

Thank you @Greithe for your advice! I wish that we in the US would appreciate and protect our educators more. My sister is a teacher and she's had to work so hard, creating an online curriculum at the drop of a hat. She said that 1/3 of her kids had parents who were essential worker, and it's been hard to know how to even grade them this year.  If I'm being honest, I'd rather teach at the post-secondary level, but I know that those jobs don't really exist anymore--at least not in the humanities. But I think I could be very happy teaching HS, too! I've been researching certification programs online but it's a lot to navigate--I'll take your advice and email my alma mater to see if they have advice : ) 
@Graceful Entropy   It's crazy how different the requirements can be depending on where you live. In WA you need a BA in addition to certification to be a teacher (if you don't have a degree in education that is).  Your plan sounds really practical! The MFA is a kind of a "vanity degree," in the sense that it doesn't guarantee any employment, so it's smart to be thinking ahead. If I'm fortunate to get into an MFA program, I hope to be doing something similar!  

I've been wondering about this a lot, as someone who's intermittently interested in the Peace Corps but also firmly anti-US imperialism. I know the organization has roots in imperialism/colonialism, but I can't find much info from people who've done it about how much of that (as well as the implicit white saviorism) still remains. I'd love to hear more of your thoughts on the matter if you're comfortable discussing!

yes im glad you asked!  i kind of wanted to mention it off the bat but i wasn't sure how you felt about imperialism. either way, this is just my opinion/experience. but i would recommend following nowhitesaviors on instagram. they have a whole story highlight where they call out the Peace Corps, I even had a disucssion with them about it because i felt so strongly that the premise was wrong and wanted to go home, but they gave me the advice that "as long as organizations like this continue to exist, its best for people like you who can challenge PC to do better to be there, than people who may carry that white savior complex and justify PC's actions."  which i don't know entirely resolved my concern. 
Anyway here are some lovely things I've heard PC presenters, leaders, and volunteers say "x community is underprivileged and we are here to help them" "we have better resources than x community, that's why we're here"  in the host country i served in we teach WITH the local teachers, which i liked (some countries you teach alone, which most volunteers are ENTIRELY inexperienced to do). but some volunteers did not work with their counterparts, instead they would show up to work anx expect their counterpart follow their lead. They did not let host country nationals take lead, but carried they idea that they know best.. which let me tell you.. none of us did. My counterparts had been teaching for YEARS and taught me so much of what i know now. 
When a small group of volunteers, including myself, brought up these issues of white saviorism to the director (american), she basically said we can sit and talk about it over lunch, but we won't address it to the entire cohort. 
There was one volunteer who studied abroad for a couple of months in Jordan, and literally found every possible moment to spew out INCORRECT things about MY culture, language, and even gave his own opinons on the politics of the country... oh and made an ISIS joke to my face..  (one volunteer came up to me later saying what he said was wrong and that she felt bad for not saying anything). months later after having to see him at a mandatory training, i confront him to which he apologized and said he wanted to be an ally to the community, asked how he could do that and we had a good talk. 
Anyway, for the most part, it feels like they are not maliciously ignorant. Just plain ignorant, but what can we do if the directors are refusing to address this, and educate volutneers so that they are not HARMING these communities? 
That was a lot I'm sorry.
TLDR: If you go, ask LOTS of questions. and challenge the higher ups. 

Chiming in to say that there's absolutely no shame in getting rejected from a publication -- especially a big one. I read for both my school's lit mags, which are well-respected but by no means household names. We still get inundated with submissions, and great pieces get turned down regularly. Heck, I've seen pieces I loved get turned down for pieces I thought were "meh." Like MFA apps, it's as much about luck as skill. Usually your success comes down to 1-3 people, and there's no unbiased way to judge art ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

A few days peace would be nice. Thank you very much, @telkanuru ! 
I received five or six rejections from high-tier pubs the past couple months--even when you prepare yourself, it still sucks.  I have some poems coming out this summer, tho! You just gotta be persistent and try not to have too many expectations. Even when a writer's work is highly polished and unique, it's still a very subjective process. I usually give myself one day to kinda feel sorry for myself--I'll make a really elaborate dinner, drink some wine, binge watch a show. Basically nothing writing related, unless I'm super absorbed in something that doesn't remind me of my inadequacies haha. I also listen to a lot of guided meditations when the thought of rejection stresses me out. 

Personally I don't have a rejection wall, but I admire those who use it to endure! I just think having a visual representation of my rejections would make me focus too much on the difficult part of the writing life, when I'd much rather surround myself with totems of  success/inspiration. That's just me tho : ) 
 
Do you guys have a back up plan if you don't get in this round? I am thinking of trying to get a teaching certification. Obviously I'm trying to be positive! But I'm curious to hear what you guys have been thinking

Your bowls and magnets sound really cool!  If we're in the same program (total longshot, I know), I'd love to see them!  I'm curious, how has Nonfiction been?  Do you write about the everyday or about more adventurous stuff?
1. I'm actually finishing undergrad this semester.  I'm an older student, but never too late to finish!  I'm taking a mural class that I'm stoked about.  I'm not sure how it will work given the Pandemic, but I'm excited nonetheless.  I also have a virtual internship teaching remedial English to some of our international students for one of my classes. I'm super excited about that also!
2. I've been working on a music video for one of my songs.  I'm totally new to making visually-interesting videos, so it's quite fun to experiment and be creative!
3. I've been blessed with an amazing job that I love.  God has been good to me.

How have you been keeping yourself busy these past few weeks/months? Any new hobbies that you've picked up? Experimenting with your writing?? Books you've read?? Hype yourself up, you're doing GREAT!!! 
 
i'll start:
1. I've been making little fridge magnets and bowls out of clay. keeping my hands busy so i dont feel the urge to refresh every waking moment.
2. I started writing creative nonfiction (i've strictly been a poet up until now)
3. after 3 years of a lit degree, I've finally gotten around to my personal tbr that is not for critical reading/writing purposes or essays. recent reads have been brandon taylor and ocean vuong. the dream!!!! 

a rejection wall sounds like a brave person thing, to be honest. I usually also give myself a day to feel sorry, and I try and analyse what went wrong on my end. If it's an internship or something, I go back to my application, see what I did wrong, feel sorry, and sleep on it. But for MFAs, I think I'm gonna need a full 24 hours and a few more tears haha
 I was accepted to a 2 year fellowship to teach low-income schools in my fav city, and yay me i did it before apps happened, so i knew in advance that i could have a lovely, full and good 2 years nonetheless. (before you wonder, i did tell my recruiter that i might leave, and i have been told that even if i do, it won't negatively impact any school or classroom so long as i do it before may.) this took off so much of the pressure because for someone straight out of undergrad, there's an expectation that you must go go go and not let there be a break.
as my username suggests, i'm a baby poet, just turned 20. i think i'll live haha albeit out of a few hundred money dollars and some regrouping.

Teaching certification in some places is made to look and sound so complicated, but your school will walk you right through it and everyone needs teachers now - that sounds like a great plan to me! (English teacher here ha ha) Some of the most joyous moments of my life were in the classroom with my kids. Of course I also ended up with high blood pressure and anxiety medication by the end of the first year, so..... ? Good luck if you do it! 
My own kids and I have been talking about Plan B from the beginning, because of the admission percentages for MFA programs. We know we want to leave Florida. The oldest wants us to buy an RV again and go workamping until I try again next year, but I think the pandemic probably tanks that plan for now.
If I end up empty-handed this year and next, then I may go for a Ph.D. in Education instead, if I can get the funding. It's always about the funding.

A few days peace would be nice. Thank you very much, @telkanuru ! 
I received five or six rejections from high-tier pubs the past couple months--even when you prepare yourself, it still sucks.  I have some poems coming out this summer, tho! You just gotta be persistent and try not to have too many expectations. Even when a writer's work is highly polished and unique, it's still a very subjective process. I usually give myself one day to kinda feel sorry for myself--I'll make a really elaborate dinner, drink some wine, binge watch a show. Basically nothing writing related, unless I'm super absorbed in something that doesn't remind me of my inadequacies haha. I also listen to a lot of guided meditations when the thought of rejection stresses me out. 

Personally I don't have a rejection wall, but I admire those who use it to endure! I just think having a visual representation of my rejections would make me focus too much on the difficult part of the writing life, when I'd much rather surround myself with totems of  success/inspiration. That's just me tho : ) 
 
Do you guys have a back up plan if you don't get in this round? I am thinking of trying to get a teaching certification. Obviously I'm trying to be positive! But I'm curious to hear what you guys have been thinking

I take the spiritual path and tell myself that those doors closed because they were not the right doors. Those rejections are simply guiding me down the correct hallway and to the correct door. I may not see it yet, but it will be there, ready and waiting for me... And I drink, a lot. I recommend a good Malbec or Bordeaux. ?

Some of us suspected it was the same Marshall all along, but he was (slightly) more tactful this time before making it obvious.

Hi All, 
Thanks for your reports on the account above. The account above seems to be the same person as the other troll(s) earlier in the thread. They're taking various measures to get around the bans on new account registrations, so please keep reporting. I'm looking into some options, but sometimes you have to keep banning them until they get bored.
-T

I've been getting lots of swords and pentacles, too! And Death/The Tower/The Star for the past 6 months 

That sounds so nice! I just ordered some take out and I'm sipping on some Soju. I thought I'd check this forum one more time, but after this I'm going to try and get some reading done or maybe watch a movie. It's so important to remember to unplug now and then
 
That's awesome that you want to learn more about tarot! I think it's great to pick out a deck that you vibe with, but starting with the Rider Waite is usually a good idea because it's "standard" and will allow you to get acquainted with the archetypes and symbols. There are a lot of artists creating amazing decks nowadays, but unless you're already familiar with some of the symbols I think it's not necessarily the best way to learn. Plus, if you get the Rider Waite first you can use websites like this to help you interpret a 10 card spread when you're getting started: https://crystal-reflections.com/tarot3/  Which can be helpful/interesting as you experiment! 

 

Hi all!! I'm Mary--so nice to meet everybody! :D I'm so glad this little corner of Grad Cafe exists--I randomly found Grad Cafe through an article I read online about when to expect an answer to grad program applications, and I'm so glad it directed me here. This website is absolutely bomb. :D

I ended up making a last-minute decision to apply to an MFA for Creative Writing via a whole lot of Jesus and prayer and finally having the courage to go after making my novel that I've been working on since I was 14 my MFA. I only applied to one program, Notre Dame's MFA for their prose track, and I applied there because my novel takes place during the Great Potato Famine in Ireland, and they have an absolutely fantastic Irish Studies program, as well as a service component to their program, which is also really important to me as both a writer and human. (I really want to get involved with their outreach track that deals with the Literatures of Annihilation and Exile (I can't remember the exact name of the track off the top of my head) because I want to use my words to help amplify the voices of marginalized communities and to write about issues in the education and social justice spaces; BIPOC issues and immigrant/refugee issues are very, very close to my heart.)
Between making the decision to apply and the deadline for the program, I had a ten-day turnaround period, and I still can't believe I actually applied to the program. That's kind of wild to me. I wish I'd had a better writing sample, but I'm just really proud of myself for applying in the first place, and for the fact that I wrote the first four pages of my novel in a creative whirlwind on the day of submission, and it was pretty much the best feeling ever to give voice to my main character, who has been in my heart and grown and matured with me through the past 15 years (I'm 29 now), and know that I have something special there.
I just wanted to wish everybody the best of luck with their applications and the decisions, and I look forward to getting to know everyone!! I think I'm going to cry and dance at the same time if I get in to this program--I want it more with each passing day.

God bless, everybody! So so glad I found this place!

~Mary

A poet in MFA Draft '21 on Facebook posted news of an acceptance from Illinois's Poetry program today too - and I loved one of the comments where someone said "It has begun" - yes, it's all suddenly feeling very real. Ugh! My kids laugh now every time I say, "WHY did I DO this to myself?" ? Good luck everyone!