1Q84

People are turning down schools that I'm wait listed at. Why is my phone not ringing?

This is a helpful distinction for me. I'm just very worried when people get all pollyanna about grad school with stuff like, "Well I don't mind burying my nose in books for 5-8 years, to hell with the consequences." I would add that often the casual fallback option planning is far too casual. People need to realize that 5-8 years of studying for a degree that probably won't get you a job is a long time to not be earning and saving for whatever your needs may be in the future (retirement, family, home, etc.) It's just a huge chunk of deferred income (5-8 for the degree, but +2 years or so if you choose to try your hand at the academic job market; so that's 10 years of deferred income, people!) that can really screw with your life plans if you're not ready for it. I hate the rat race and every other part of capitalist society that makes me worry about the crap I listed above, but simply ignoring it is not going to help me and my family survive. And I think this is ComeBackZinc's point--if you go in with the express knowledge that you can walk out either unfinished or without a job with a smile on your face, then have at it. The awareness is what's key. Have Plan B's and C's that you're ready to move up in the queue at a moment's notice. Ph.Ds are not just a risky choice anymore, it's almost a sure-lose. Unfortunately, like OP said, I really do think there's a lot of exceptionalism in these types of threads, so his or her warnings are very, very much needed for that reason.

Thanks for this! Saving it for after thesis is due. Then I'll crack open a bottle and spend some quality time with my favorite megalomaniacal, aging rockstar!

Inquired about wait list at Toronto. I think there were one or two of us here on TGC so I thought I'd share: Welp! Bring on April.

Out of upvotes but this sounds amazing! I used to be really into Kerouac in my high school days and I remember reading (in Dharma Bums, I think?) about his experiences spending time in one of those fire lookout posts. That was my dream summer for a long time!

I'm not sure why people are so down on OP. I get that it's unpleasant to hear these things and that we've heard it over and over and over but I liked the original post. I don't want to minimize OP's experience either by shouting him/her down. As far as I know, most of the people dumping on him/her don't actually have their degree yet and are definitely not on the same job market. So while we, as candidates have one view, it's still pretty valuable to hear these job market experiences. It is for me, at least. As in, I know it's terrible out there. But did I know all the details that OP shared? No... and I think it's wise to steel oneself with realities like this. Obviously, none of us will ever be 100% ready after we step out of the university and into the job market, but hopefully we'll all be wiser and more prepared than those who haven't had the same schpeel pounded over and over into their heads.

Of course not. But judging by the fact that youngcharlie only thanks and upvotes posts that she deems to be sufficiently positive certainly indicates what they think about everything else. There are plenty of examples of others on this board getting hard-nosed advice (that they asked for, by the way) and saying, "Yes, I certainly have a lot to think about" and walking off without saying what they will do one way or another. No one is asking youngcharlie to sign on the dotted line, just to perhaps receive all advice with an open mind, something that is clearly not happening. Edit to add: If OP actually digests this advice in real life and does what's best for them, then that's the best outcome in my eyes. It's just upsetting to see so many people that I know are kind and mean very well on TGC pouring a lot of effort into empathetic and compassionate advice only to be downvoted and ignored.

In order to avoid constructing even more strawman arguments, it might help for you to actually quote whose posts you're talking about here because other than one or two people in this thread, everyone else has been extremely supportive by either empathizing or offering thoughtful and relevant advice. I said this to youngcharlie in a previous thread that she created as well as on one of her status updates announcing she had given up graduate school and planned on being a high school teacher, with the explicit caveat that increased mental and physical resiliency would be almost as necessary, if not more so, in order to be an effective high school teacher. I was summarily ignored/downvoted. Real advice is not commonly that easy to accept because they require a lot of self-assessment and work. I'm not sure if there's an actual point to offering sensible advice anymore in this thread because it's falling on deaf ears.

NO. Clearly, we're meant to be nemeses for life

Family Guy/South Park, and people who like Family Guy/South Park.

hospital grounds

Can you explain how encouraging youngcharlie to focus on her mental and physical health prior to and in order to effectively tackle an academic career a) suggests that she is unfit to be an academic and b.) scares her away from academia? Let me remind you that she has constantly mentioned that she has panic attacks and had previously blacked out during the GRE, has been hospitalized from anxiety, etc. I understand it's unpleasant to receive advice that one wasn't hoping for or anticipating but responding sarcastically, downvoting, and only acknowledging posts that fluff one's ego shows that that person isn't ready for academia, a place where uncomfortable, unwanted, and harsh but constructive advice is the norm. There is nothing wrong with pointing out that OP may need time away from academia or additional support and resources to cope with anxiety or personal trauma. In fact, that's far more responsible and compassionate than just vomiting bland platitudes onto someone when they need to make a crucial, life-altering decision such as this. Edit: and to respond to ProfLorax's point, I am in no way suggesting that people with anxiety, mental issues, etc. are unfit for academia. I am stating that the current state of academia will only exacerbate underlying issues if they are not dealt with. Do I think the system should be more welcoming, positive, friendly, open to people with mental issues? Of course. But suggesting that a person with such issues should just throw themselves into academia "because the system should be different" is naive and irresponsible.

I have nothing to contribute yet but are folks calling or emailing to turn down offers? And to whom are you all addressing the message?

I think I'll echo part of lifealive's advice and note that it sounds like you really need time away from academia to figure out who you are and what you want. Sorry if that sounds presumptuous but from all the threads you've made here, it sounds like you actually have no idea what you want. From status updates and other conclusions you've made, you said you were giving up on Ph.D. aspirations forever and throwing yourself whole-heartedly into secondary teaching but now you're thinking about getting two more MA's? These are huge decisions and I'm not sure if anyone in real life is pressuring you, but there really is no rush. The last thing you want to do is get into a situation again that harms you mentally and physically. You're absolutely right that folks with trauma and mental illness have made enormous contributions to academia and your past experiences should not preclude you from doing the same. However, and I said this to you in your GRE thread, it sounds like you need to work on your own (mental and physical) resiliency first. Graduate school is absolutely not a place that one should go to get one's ego stroked. A few of my colleagues have had past traumas/mental illness and came in expecting to be warmly and kindly supported by every single member of the faculty. The second that this was not the case, they melted down and went into "I hate the faculty here" rants like the one that you keep returning to. I'm not saying that this is exactly what happened to you, but you need to find ways to cope with the assholes who will inevitably crop up in your professional life, be they within academia or without. Take time for yourself, seek additional professional advice and strategizing methods for coping with anxiety and trauma, and then find your way back to graduate school if you're ready for it down the road. Edit: Okay, well thanks for downvoting me! Do whatever the hell you want.

Not sure if I mentioned it already in this thread but one of the schools for which I am wait listed told me that after the initial round of acceptances, the committee actually revisits the wait list and re-arranges the order, if necessary. I had never heard of this practice before but I wouldn't be surprised if it happened elsewhere. I mean, who would do you think the committee would rather have at the top of the wait list, someone they never even heard from after the wait list notification, or someone who emailed and expressed continued interest and said that school was their top choice? tl;dr: Don't be shy--contact the school and express your continued interest in attending! You want these schools to know you're serious about accepting an offer (that is, if you really are). As for quietly mentioning that you have other offers, I think you can go about that by mentioning that the other program has asked for your decision as soon as possible and you're wondering if there's any chance that you might hear back about the wait list before April 15. That's a sly way of dropping the info that you have other offers (you can name the school if you want) and also lighting a small fire under their butts, in the case that they really want you on board. There are always things that can be done behind the scenes, as I mentioned above.

Agreed! I'm convinced I experienced success at the couple schools that I did because I made prior (and genuine) contact with POIs. Granted, obviously I struck out at a bunch of schools even though I made contact with POIs there too but I think I had weaker parts of my app that couldn't be overlooked. In the success cases, I'm pretty sure I was able to convince my contacts that the weaker parts of my app were not as big a problem because I could articulate my interests well one-on-one. One POI told me exactly what you said, that they could advocate for me to the committee, so I would 100% try and contact professors in your field. Of course, be mindful about the professor's time. Go in super prepared, be engaging with your interests, and know a lot about the department and school in order to show you're a serious candidate and not just "making the rounds" and calling a bunch of profs to say you did so. And yes, my hand was really sore after, writing a big stack of thank you cards!

I always say go with your gut in these cases! Fit, of course, is one of the most important aspects of succeeding in a program. The program seems to think you'd fit, but if you had the feeling that your interests wouldn't be nurtured as much as you want at that school, then take it as a sign! Maybe not the only determining factor, but one of the more important ones. Good luck! Sounds like a really tough choice you're making.

I actually don't often see people carry any type of bag nowadays... just books/laptop in hand. Strange. Although I do see those who teach use those backpacks that can turn into something like carry on baggage, where a handle extends and you can wheel it on the ground. I hate those things!

Thanks for making this distinction. I think you're absolutely right. As far as I know, however, most schools (even Ivies) don't allow Ph.D. students to teach anything but the most hated composition courses. Most of the full-freedom type courses happen in the last year or during an actual TT position. I would agree that then those full-freedom courses can really work in tandem with research, allowing one to workout concepts of interest with one's students for the writing of one's first book, etc.

Indeed, Iha is severely underrated (I will maintain to my death that his b-side Go is fucking fantastic!). As Appp mentioned, he co-wrote Soma but also Mayonaise, and I Am One. Mellotron was used extensively on MCIS too, wasn't it? Another piece of alt-rock trivia: Trent Reznor purchased Lennon's old mellotron and used it on Broken, Fragile and Manson's Anti-Christ Superstar. Super cool that you got to (almost?) tool around with one!

I live right off Santa Monica Blvd right now, around Barrington. This neighborhood is extremely walkable, with two indie movie theaters and restaurants and bars up the wazoo. There's going to be a new Pavilions up soon as well. Since you're into biking, it's a great area. If you have a car, you'll find out that it's a traffic hellhole. The same few blocks up to Wilshire are also very walkable with a Ralphs and tons of bars and restaurants too.

Actually, Rhinoceros is my all-time favorite song by SP. Cannot beat that mid-song breakdown and solo. I'm a pretty big Machina apologist, especially considering how amazing Machina II was. Man, things would be very different right now if we had II as the official release in place of the original. I was so disappointed with Iha's 2012 solo album since his 2008 one was SO AMAZING. I love that album from front to back. Maybe the schmaltzy country pop thing just doesn't age well...

There's a difference between admitting physical attraction (which, I believe, every single person in the thread has done) and this: