openness to working outside of academia

[lth]

Hey guys - 

In my statement of purpose, I mention that my reasons for pursuing a PhD - aside from the training itself - include teaching and researching philosophy at the university level, and that I am also open to working outside of academia. Is it unwise to state this? I'm a little worried because my apps are out, and the damage may be done. 

[Prose]

yep, unwise, but as you said your apps are out, dont stress

[Duns Eith]

Depends on the program, I imagine.

12 hours ago, Prose said:

yep, unwise, but as you said your apps are out, dont stress

Why do you think it is unwise?

The only reason I can think of is placement data. Any other reasons?

[Prose]

25 minutes ago, Duns Eith said:

Depends on the program, I imagine.

Why do you think it is unwise?

The only reason I can think of is placement data. Any other reasons?

Why do I think it is unwise to tell programs designed to produce academic philosophers that you might not actually want to be an academic philosopher?

[Nothingtown]

12 hours ago, lth said:

Hey guys - 

In my statement of purpose, I mention that my reasons for pursuing a PhD - aside from the training itself - include teaching and researching philosophy at the university level, and that I am also open to working outside of academia. Is it unwise to state this? I'm a little worried because my apps are out, and the damage may be done. 

Hey! Your apps are out, and you're going back over what you said like a conversation you had with someone that you were really nervous about. You know, those conversations where you look back and in retrospect you start kicking yourself for everything you said. We all do it, and probably a lot of people here are going back over certain things in their applications just like you. I know I am. It's going to be okay, and if you don't get into programs this year, live, learn, and apply again next year. I know some of my profs didn't make it in the first round either. 

That being said, I think the answer to your question is "it depends on the specialization." For example, one of the AOIs I have is bioethics. It's not wild to say, to a bioethics program, that you'd like to work on a hospital ethics board at some point. Actually, ethics in general is one of the AOIs where stating what you did is probably more acceptable. 

Also, I don't think it's the worst thing anyone has ever said in a statement of purpose, not by a long shot. It'll all work out!

[Duns Eith]

1 hour ago, Prose said:

Why do I think it is unwise to tell programs designed to produce academic philosophers that you might not actually want to be an academic philosopher?

Yes. Sorta.

You are assuming that the programs are all "designed to produce academic philosophers." Where you mean that 'academic philosopher' means someone who becomes  a professor at a research or teaching university. I could you spell out why you hold this view?

But even on that assumption, beyond placement data, which i mentioned before, what other reasons might there be? If someone intended to just get a PhD and go into something else, would an AdCom think "they don't belong here"? If so, why? I think it is entirely wise to know that job prospects are grim, and to have a backup plan.

Edited February 26, 2019 by Duns Eith

[redsubywa]

I've actually been told (by a faculty member on an admissions committee) that it can be helpful to state your openness to jobs outside of academia because it demonstrates that you know how competitive the TT job market is.

[hector549]

16 hours ago, lth said:

Hey guys - 

In my statement of purpose, I mention that my reasons for pursuing a PhD - aside from the training itself - include teaching and researching philosophy at the university level, and that I am also open to working outside of academia. Is it unwise to state this? I'm a little worried because my apps are out, and the damage may be done. 

I suspect that how much this matters will be largely dependent on the program, the individuals on the admissions committee, and how it is framed in your SOP. PhD programs are training you to work in academia as a teacher and researcher. Even if the odds are long against you getting a TT job, I suspect that some faculty would be inclined to take an application less seriously if they think you'll have your mind on a career outside the academy/will be more likely to leave/etc. Again, how this is viewed I think will depend heavily on how you've framed the sentiment.

[Prose]

4 hours ago, Duns Eith said:

Yes. Sorta.

You are assuming that the programs are all "designed to produce academic philosophers." Where you mean that 'academic philosopher' means someone who becomes  a professor at a research or teaching university. I could you spell out why you hold this view?

But even on that assumption, beyond placement data, which i mentioned before, what other reasons might there be? If someone intended to just get a PhD and go into something else, would an AdCom think "they don't belong here"? If so, why? I think it is entirely wise to know that job prospects are grim, and to have a backup plan.

This is really not that complicated. OP already sent in his app's anyways, and so have I. Not going to discuss this non-issue further.

[VentralStream]

@Prose This is not related to the post, but if you don't mind me asking, when did you get your acceptance from Notre Dame? Was it a fellowship? I haven't seen any acceptances on the results page or forum. Thanks!

[Prose]

Just now, VentralStream said:

@Prose This is not related to the post, but if you don't mind me asking, when did you get your acceptance from Notre Dame? Was it a fellowship? I haven't seen any acceptances on the results page or forum. Thanks!

oops! sorry, didn't mean to green that one - fixed it.

[Nicholassss]

37 minutes ago, Prose said:

oops! sorry, didn't mean to green that one - fixed it.

Hey, can I ask you when did you get the Brown acceptance? Thanks!

[Moose#@1%$]

1 hour ago, VentralStream said:

@Prose This is not related to the post, but if you don't mind me asking, when did you get your acceptance from Notre Dame? Was it a fellowship? I haven't seen any acceptances on the results page or forum. Thanks!

Idk about the acceptances yet, but a friend of mine just got his rejection from them, that is ND. So, if you haven't heard anything yet, you might still be in the running.. hopefully?

[VentralStream]

@Moose#@1%$ Hopefully!

[lth]

Thanks for the input, guys. In retrospect, it's probably not total sabotage but if further iterations are needed I'll take it out. 

[Duns Eith]

13 hours ago, lth said:

Thanks for the input, guys. In retrospect, it's probably not total sabotage but if further iterations are needed I'll take it out. 

Sounds like a good plan! Good luck!