2021 Application Discussion Thread

[PolPhil]

Just now, PhilCoffee said:

@PolPhil Hey! The thought is just that the applicants that get accepted to multiple programs will reject most of them but one. And if they're applying to more places, they will end up rejecting more, which makes guys on the waitlists have better chances to get accepted. It will be harder for many to get on the waitlists from the first place, though.

Not to be a Debbie Downer, but here's my counter-thought:

Most of the people getting accepted this year are the same people that would usually get accepted. These people also are less likely to apply to a bunch of random programs, because they probably only have their sights set on the ~12-15 programs in the top 20 where they have a decent fit. Therefore, the increase in applications will have little to no affect on this group or most admission slots at these top 20 programs. For the "marginal" acceptees, and as you move out of the top 20 there are more and more marginal acceptees in the total set of acceptees, the increase in applications will make things more difficult. Being marginal among a larger set of marginal applicants means that your acceptance would, even in a normal year, be luck of the draw. Given a larger set of marginal applicants, these odds go down. But even in a normal year, the waitlist is replete with only marginal applicants. That's the reality of philosophy applications, with such a large pool of qualified applicants and so few admissions slots. This all means that this year it will be more difficult to even get on the waitlist, but once you're already on the waitlist, the odds are roughly the same, since you're among a pool of marginal applicants equivalent to the pool among which you would have been in a normal year. Like I said, this might be different once you start getting outside of the top 20 and more of the initial admissions slots are going to marginal applicants, since you can expect more "shuffling" at those programs.

[PhilCoffee]

14 minutes ago, PolPhil said:

Not to be a Debbie Downer, but here's my counter-thought:

Most of the people getting accepted this year are the same people that would usually get accepted. These people also are less likely to apply to a bunch of random programs, because they probably only have their sights set on the ~12-15 programs in the top 20 where they have a decent fit. Therefore, the increase in applications will have little to no affect on this group or most admission slots at these top 20 programs. For the "marginal" acceptees, and as you move out of the top 20 there are more and more marginal acceptees in the total set of acceptees, the increase in applications will make things more difficult. Being marginal among a larger set of marginal applicants means that your acceptance would, even in a normal year, be luck of the draw. Given a larger set of marginal applicants, these odds go down. But even in a normal year, the waitlist is replete with only marginal applicants. That's the reality of philosophy applications, with such a large pool of qualified applicants and so few admissions slots. This all means that this year it will be more difficult to even get on the waitlist, but once you're already on the waitlist, the odds are roughly the same, since you're among a pool of marginal applicants equivalent to the pool among which you would have been in a normal year. Like I said, this might be different once you start getting outside of the top 20 and more of the initial admissions slots are going to marginal applicants, since you can expect more "shuffling" at those programs.

Yeah. I think we just have different predictions about those strongest applicant's selection of prograns. I was just assuming that they would apply for programs that they usually apply for plus a couple of schools like Tufts or NIU, or some top 30 programs. And I actually agree that these applicants will end up getting in the places that they usually would get in.

[PolPhil]

13 minutes ago, PhilCoffee said:

Yeah. I think we just have different predictions about those strongest applicant's selection of prograns. I was just assuming that they would apply for programs that they usually apply for plus a couple of schools like Tufts or NIU, or some top 30 programs. And I actually agree that these applicants will end up getting in the places that they usually would get in.

Entirely possible! I'm just speculating

[Outer Heaven]

Either way the crucible of admissions will be tough as always.

[PhilgoreTrout]

4 hours ago, PolPhil said:

Not to be a Debbie Downer, but here's my counter-thought:

Most of the people getting accepted this year are the same people that would usually get accepted. These people also are less likely to apply to a bunch of random programs, because they probably only have their sights set on the ~12-15 programs in the top 20 where they have a decent fit. Therefore, the increase in applications will have little to no affect on this group or most admission slots at these top 20 programs. For the "marginal" acceptees, and as you move out of the top 20 there are more and more marginal acceptees in the total set of acceptees, the increase in applications will make things more difficult. Being marginal among a larger set of marginal applicants means that your acceptance would, even in a normal year, be luck of the draw. Given a larger set of marginal applicants, these odds go down. But even in a normal year, the waitlist is replete with only marginal applicants. That's the reality of philosophy applications, with such a large pool of qualified applicants and so few admissions slots. This all means that this year it will be more difficult to even get on the waitlist, but once you're already on the waitlist, the odds are roughly the same, since you're among a pool of marginal applicants equivalent to the pool among which you would have been in a normal year. Like I said, this might be different once you start getting outside of the top 20 and more of the initial admissions slots are going to marginal applicants, since you can expect more "shuffling" at those programs.

Well, this is partially true from my perspective. I applied to 15 PhD programs most of which are in the top 10-20 PGR with good fit for my interests. However, I did apply to a few lower-ranked programs and even one unranked program that fit my interests especially well. If it weren't for the current circumstances I might not have applied to these places. Since I already have an offer from one of my top 2 choices in terms of overall fit I will likely be withdrawing my applications from these lower ranked programs. 

On a tangentially related note, I'm increasingly of the mind that we should put far less emphasis on overall rankings as a discipline. The only rankings we should be paying attention to are perhaps specialty breakdowns. Unfortunately, I don't think the emphasis on rankings is going anywhere, unless we as a discipline find some practical means of filtering out prestige bias in hiring practices.

Edited January 23, 2021 by PhilgoreTrout

[MtnDuck]

16 hours ago, HomoLudens said:

I know a student from UW is actively updating it, idk if that is you mtn duck. Ultimately it is a crowdsourced project. Still I am also very appreciative of it. 

 

17 hours ago, Kapol-in said:

Wow who put this sheet together? It's pretty amazing

Yeah that's me ? Though it only really works from everyone who has contributed info over the years/crowd sourcing ?

[PolPhil]

28 minutes ago, PhilgoreTrout said:

Well, this is partially true from my perspective. I applied to 15 PhD programs most of which are in the top 10-20 PGR with good fit for my interests. However, I did apply to a few lower-ranked programs and even one unranked program that fit my interests especially well. If it weren't for the current circumstances I might not have applied to these places. Since I already have an offer from one of my top 2 choices in terms of overall fit I will likely be withdrawing my applications from these lower ranked programs. 

On a tangentially related note, I'm increasingly of the mind that we should put far less emphasis on overall rankings as a discipline. The only rankings we should be paying attention to are perhaps specialty breakdowns. Unfortunately, I don't think the emphasis on rankings is going anywhere, unless we as a discipline find some practical means of filtering out prestige bias in hiring practices.

The only reason that I disagree with moving away from overall rankings is that most graduate students shift interests over the course of a PhD, so it's usually a good idea to go to a program that is strong overall vs a program that is only strong in your particular area

[Outer Heaven]

I wonder how many people will feel pressured to choose an acceptance from an unranked program.

[Kapol-in]

Just got a weird email from a University asking me to submit a different form of my application, PDF version, and to send it back to them--I did it as soon as possible, maybe something went wrong with their online application system?

[HomoLudens]

33 minutes ago, Kapol-in said:

Just got a weird email from a University asking me to submit a different form of my application, PDF version, and to send it back to them--I did it as soon as possible, maybe something went wrong with their online application system?

Which uni?

[MtnDuck]

1 hour ago, Kapol-in said:

Just got a weird email from a University asking me to submit a different form of my application, PDF version, and to send it back to them--I did it as soon as possible, maybe something went wrong with their online application system?

When the system compiles submissions if there are mixed document types (like .doc and .pdf) or even just with .doc/.docx submissions sometimes the formatting gets thrown off when the system throws things together or when they go to print things out. I think I remember one app I sent in where the application ID info (tends to get printed on top of every page of an applicant's file) would have obscured text from my writing sample if I hadn't changed it over to a PDF ??‍♂️

[Kapol-in]

47 minutes ago, HomoLudens said:

Which uni?

University of Minnesota

4 minutes ago, MtnDuck said:

When the system compiles submissions if there are mixed document types (like .doc and .pdf) or even just with .doc/.docx submissions sometimes the formatting gets thrown off when the system throws things together or when they go to print things out. I think I remember one app I sent in where the application ID info (tends to get printed on top of every page of an applicant's file) would have obscured text from my writing sample if I hadn't changed it over to a PDF ??‍♂️

Ah I see, interesting.

[HomoLudens]

3 hours ago, MtnDuck said:

When the system compiles submissions if there are mixed document types (like .doc and .pdf) or even just with .doc/.docx submissions sometimes the formatting gets thrown off when the system throws things together or when they go to print things out. I think I remember one app I sent in where the application ID info (tends to get printed on top of every page of an applicant's file) would have obscured text from my writing sample if I hadn't changed it over to a PDF ??‍♂️

I think this illustrates why you should only submit documents in PDF form. The formatting of Word docs is too unpredictable.

[Outer Heaven]

I had to resend my writing sample due to .docx fucking up the whole sample. 

[ObamaIsGuiltyOfWarCrimes]

On 1/24/2021 at 8:00 PM, HomoLudens said:

I think this illustrates why you should only submit documents in PDF form. The formatting of Word docs is too unpredictable.

One emphasis I would like to add is that this is true of submissions: If you are asking for advice, proofreading, or even sending before discussion at an event you are speaking at, send it in .doc/.docx format. I learned this tough rule during my master's when a PhD candidate gave me his suggestions after a presentation. Apparently some superstar philosophers might mark up your document and send it back to you iff it is more accessible and not an inconvenience to do so.

Edited January 26, 2021 by JonnyPhil

[PhilCoffee]

I feel confused about Pitt. Their portal says that one of my already submitted LoR is missing, and it's been like 20 days since the letters are due. There hasn't been any correspondence to discuss the missing letter. So I've sent messages within the portal to the graduate department and nobody responds. I've also contacted two administratives in the philosophy department, and, again, nobody responds. This just feels awful.

Edited January 29, 2021 by PhilCoffee

[Outer Heaven]

Ask your letter writer if they got contacted.

[PhilCoffee]

@Outer Heaven Yeah. And he says "no". So I don't know what's going on. Probably I should wait, maybe they'll find the letter, or they'll reach out otherwise.

[HomoLudens]

5 hours ago, PhilCoffee said:

I feel confused about Pitt. Their portal says that one of my already submitted LoR is missing, and it's been like 20 days since the letters are due. There hasn't been any correspondence to discuss the missing letter. So I've sent messages within the portal to the graduate department and nobody responds. I've also contacted two administratives in the philosophy department, and, again, nobody responds. This just feels awful.

The Pitt application website feels like it hasn't changed in 15 years.  

[PolPhil]

7 hours ago, PhilCoffee said:

@Outer Heaven Yeah. And he says "no". So I don't know what's going on. Probably I should wait, maybe they'll find the letter, or they'll reach out otherwise.

I doubt that they will reach out for a missing letter. From their perspective, it's up to you to check and make sure that everything has been submitted. In full fairness, can you really expect them to personally correspond with ~300 applicants to make sure that all of the components are there? There's usually just one admissions coordinator (at Pitt it's Diana Volkar). They will often contact you if there is trouble with a component that you have included, but it's rarer for them to contact you for a missing component.

Edit: if it was a problem with their application system, contact them, and they'll probably cut you as much slack as they can (though it might be too late)

Edited January 29, 2021 by PolPhil

[Mischief]

7 hours ago, PhilCoffee said:

@Outer Heaven Yeah. And he says "no". So I don't know what's going on. Probably I should wait, maybe they'll find the letter, or they'll reach out otherwise.

Don't wait any longer. Send an e-mail to the admissions coordinator at Pitt and find out what's up--it's entirely possible that the messages you're sending are going to a portal inbox for someone who no longer checks it (i.e. a past coordinator who now has no reason to log into the portal).

[HomoLudens]

This probably isn't helpful, but I just checked my Pitt app portal, and it says that mine were submitted. It might be an issue on your letter writer's end. Contact them immediately. I contacted Diana earlier in the season directly and got a response.

[PhilCoffee]

Hey, thank you guys. The sense of frustratedness comes mainly from the fact that I contacted 2 staffs on the philosophy department and get no response. Maybe I reached out to the wrong guy, but I thought if that was the case I would get redirected.

Edited January 29, 2021 by PhilCoffee

[PhilCoffee]

21 minutes ago, PolPhil said:

I doubt that they will reach out for a missing letter. From their perspective, it's up to you to check and make sure that everything has been submitted. In full fairness, can you really expect them to personally correspond with ~300 applicants to make sure that all of the components are there? There's usually just one admissions coordinator (at Pitt it's Diana Volkar). They will often contact you if there is trouble with a component that you have included, but it's rarer for them to contact you for a missing component.

Edit: if it was a problem with their application system, contact them, and they'll probably cut you as much slack as they can (though it might be too late)

Yeah, I mean I didn't just rely on the assumption that they would reach out. I actually reached out and got no response, and that's the frustrating part.

[PolPhil]

Just now, PhilCoffee said:

Yeah, I mean I didn't just rely on the assumption that they would reach out. I actually reached out and got no response, and that's the frustrating part.

I feel you. I've also had trouble getting in contact with Diana Volkar