2022 Creative Writing MFA Applicants Forum

[MDP]

On 11/29/2021 at 2:10 PM, pasteur77 said:

Just jumping in here for my first year of applications! I am very quickly realizing that choosing a bunch of tough schools was mayyybeee not the move. 

Applying to: 

The Michener Center @ UT Austin

University of Iowa

University of Michigan

Brown University

University of Virginia

Cornell University

Johns Hopkins University

Columbia University (I know, I know, but I'm in NYC now and I wanted one local school on the list)

University of North Carolina Wilmington

Cambridge University

Oxford University

University of East Anglia

So my real question is, do I pull a last minute panic and add a few more schools to the list? I've been looking at UWash, Alabama, Oregon, Indiana, and Syracuse as well. 

 

As someone who applied exclusively to arch-competitive schools the first go-round, I would say definitely add a few others into the mix if you're still within their deadline range. I applied to a very similar list and got across the board rejections -- doesn't mean you will, and not the worst thing that could ever happen, but it sure felt like $h!t  Good luck and sending good thoughts to you! I added a few schools to my list this time that aren't as cutthroat and it's making me feel at least a little more secure. I did reapply to a couple of the same competitive programs, though. Couldn't give them up completely, ha.

[Rm714]

20 hours ago, MDP said:

As someone who applied exclusively to arch-competitive schools the first go-round, I would say definitely add a few others into the mix if you're still within their deadline range. I applied to a very similar list and got across the board rejections -- doesn't mean you will, and not the worst thing that could ever happen, but it sure felt like $h!t  Good luck and sending good thoughts to you! I added a few schools to my list this time that aren't as cutthroat and it's making me feel at least a little more secure. I did reapply to a couple of the same competitive programs, though. Couldn't give them up completely, ha.

Out of curiosity - which schools are considered to be on the less competitive / less cutthroat side?

[Meso]

@MDP, your advice is exactly what @feralgrad told @mrvisser to do. Feralgrad noticed the mrvisser had been rejected for a few years by every program and said to shoot a little lower, like for the crapppiest fully funded school. I went back and forth whether I agreed. Is it selling out your dreams or practicality? Then @Ydrlreported that she accepted an offer that was not one of her first choices. Next year came, and Ydrl wanted to transfer out; that is how much she hates her compromise school. She says her classmates are nice but not smart enough to learn from. Honestly, I still don't know what to recommend to mr. visser. 

[Danny Melrotten]

3 hours ago, Rm714 said:

Out of curiosity - which schools are considered to be on the less competitive / less cutthroat side?

there arent uncompetitive mfas

unless you want to pay money out the ass and those arent competitive cause noone wants to pay money out the ass

[Yellow62]

3 minutes ago, Danny Melrotten said:

there arent uncompetitive mfas

unless you want to pay money out the ass and those arent competitive cause noone wants to pay money out the ass

You're now using three separate accounts on here at once (Mukhil, Meso, and now Danny Melrotten), as well as posting in Draft as "Dan Melrot". I can only imagine some sort of irresolvable pain could drive someone to behave like this, and I genuinely hope you find some way to heal from what ails you in the new year. 

[xenawins]

Well, I received an invite to submit to round two at the University of Tennessee (UTK). I know it's not the end all, be all, but it's a relief not to be told "Sorry, you're SO not up to snuff we're going to encourage you to save your application money."  Good luck to everyone pushing out those applications right now!

[MDP]

On 12/24/2021 at 12:52 PM, Rm714 said:

Out of curiosity - which schools are considered to be on the less competitive / less cutthroat side?

I consider less competitive schools ones that have an applicant pool of less than 1,000 that accept more than ten fiction writers. (I'm applying to fiction programs.) It's a loose/arbitrary definition that I made up for myself, so take it with a grain of salt, haha. But @Danny Melrotten is right, they're all competitive!

On 12/24/2021 at 1:04 PM, Meso said:

 Next year came, and Ydrl wanted to transfer out; that is how much she hates her compromise school. She says her classmates are nice but not smart enough to learn from. Honestly, I still don't know what to recommend to mr. visser. 

Maybe I'm an idealist, but as a writer, I think there is something to be learned from everyone you come in contact with. To disregard people as "not smart enough to learn from" -- well, that's a choice, but not one I would make. I hope this person can find a way to deflate their ego enough to participate in their program. Good writing is good writing, and a real writer will make it happen whether they're in a top 10 program or slogging through a day job.

On 12/24/2021 at 4:26 PM, Yellow62 said:

I can only imagine some sort of irresolvable pain could drive someone to behave like this, and I genuinely hope you find some way to heal from what ails you in the new year. 

And this made me lol. I agree. Good luck, everyone  

Edited December 28, 2021 by MDP

[koechophe]

3 hours ago, MDP said:

To disregard people as "not smart enough to learn from" -- well, that's a choice, but not one I would make. I hope this person can find a way to deflate their ego enough to participate in their program.

First off, Ydrl never said that phrase--that was another user who was summarizing. Ydrl just commented that she's not getting the feedback she needs to improve. It doesn't mean that the people around her aren't smart--maybe they excel at  the same things Ydrl excels at, and she's lacking other perspectives that reveal weaknesses in her writing.

Second, and more importantly, wanting to switch programs is not a sign of an inflated ego. 

We don't do MFA's because of career prospects (clearly.) We do it for an experience, and if Ydrl isn't having an experience that is helping her grow as a writer, that doesn't have ANYTHING to do with her ego. It just means her university wasn't a good fit for her. 

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say that it seems like you're commenting on other people talking about Ydrl's posts, not Ydrl's posts themselves. But still, I think it's needlessly mean to accuse someone of an inflated ego simply because they're not having a good experience in their proram.

3 hours ago, MDP said:

Good writing is good writing, and a real writer will make it happen whether they're in a top 10 program or slogging through a day job.

The implication here is very off-putting. People are "real" writers even if they feel uninspired and are in a slump. They're real writers even if they are in less-than-ideal circumstances for a while and their writing suffers because of it. People are real writers even if they suck! 

I had a writing group in my undergraduate that I managed.We had some people that were serious and some people who used writing as therepy without caring how effective it was. Some people who just wrote fanfics all day long because they wanted to play, and some people who were so early in their craft that it was almost indecipherable. 

And you know what? They were all "real" writers.

[MDP]

Just now, koechophe said:

First off, Ydrl never said that phrase--that was another user who was summarizing. Ydrl just commented that she's not getting the feedback she needs to improve. It doesn't mean that the people around her aren't smart--maybe they excel at  the same things Ydrl excels at, and she's lacking other perspectives that reveal weaknesses in her writing.

Second, and more importantly, wanting to switch programs is not a sign of an inflated ego. 

We don't do MFA's because of career prospects (clearly.) We do it for an experience, and if Ydrl isn't having an experience that is helping her grow as a writer, that doesn't have ANYTHING to do with her ego. It just means her university wasn't a good fit for her. 

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say that it seems like you're commenting on other people talking about Ydrl's posts, not Ydrl's posts themselves. But still, I think it's needlessly mean to accuse someone of an inflated ego simply because they're not having a good experience in their proram.

The implication here is very off-putting. People are "real" writers even if they feel uninspired and are in a slump. They're real writers even if they are in less-than-ideal circumstances for a while and their writing suffers because of it. People are real writers even if they suck! 

I had a writing group in my undergraduate that I managed.We had some people that were serious and some people who used writing as therepy without caring how effective it was. Some people who just wrote fanfics all day long because they wanted to play, and some people who were so early in their craft that it was almost indecipherable. 

And you know what? They were all "real" writers.

Gah I should have gone back to see what she had actually said. The other user’s summary wasn’t at all accurate to Ydrl’s original post. I agree with everything you’ve said here. I was trying (unsuccessfully ) to communicate that if a person loves to write, they’ll make it happen no matter who or where they are. Didn’t mean to imply otherwise, and sorry if I hurt anyone’s feelings!

[koechophe]

1 hour ago, MDP said:

I was trying (unsuccessfully ) to communicate that if a person loves to write, they’ll make it happen no matter who or where they are.

Hey, seriously, good on you! I was a bit defensive about Ydrl because after being here last year, I have a high opinion of her and I deeply respect her decision to move on from a program that's not helping her improve--I think that's a very brave and tough thing to do, and shows real devotion to the craft. 

I'm also a bit defensive about writers who aren't super amazing at the craft. That's not what everyone shoots for with writing, you know? I feel like the writing community should accept them with open arms. I'm that way because I used to be more of a snob with writing and was like, "Well, if you're not going to beat your writing with a critique stick until it's pretty, why are you even doing this?" 

And then I met more people like that, and I realized that some people just need to let out their words, never mind how effective it is. Some people don't want anything more than the expression and a few good friends who will read whatever they write, good or otherwise. And I came to really like those people, and wish the best for them ? 

 

[MDP]

20 minutes ago, koechophe said:

I'm also a bit defensive about writers who aren't super amazing at the craft. That's not what everyone shoots for with writing, you know? I feel like the writing community should accept them with open arms. I'm that way because I used to be more of a snob with writing and was like, "Well, if you're not going to beat your writing with a critique stick until it's pretty, why are you even doing this?" 

And then I met more people like that, and I realized that some people just need to let out their words, never mind how effective it is. Some people don't want anything more than the expression and a few good friends who will read whatever they write, good or otherwise. And I came to really like those people, and wish the best for them ? 

 

Totally hear that, I feel the same way! In fact, I had those people in mind when I was (also) getting defensive. I hated the idea that someone would leave a workshop because the people didn't seem smart enough (but I now see that this wasn't the case at all for Ydrl!) Gotta check my sources next time, ha. What did Kurt Vonnegut say..."Don't take it all so seriously"...  

[Meso]

@MDP, did you actually read what @Ydrl wrote, or did you decide the first summary you read was not as good as @koechophe's summary? 

Maybe @koechophe's summary is better, but @mrvisserwould be the first one to tell you that it is not entirely consistent to call yourself a fool for having believed a summary, when your only new ground is second summary.

It is about sincerity. The reader must believe @MDP actually means what he says and is not just saying anything to ingratiate.  

Edited December 28, 2021 by Meso

[MDP]

@MesoDude...go get yourself a glass of water and a decent meal. The world is much bigger than these GradCafe forums and we're all here for the same thing ?

[Meso]

Well, I think @MDP should read what @Ydrl wrote before patronizing her. 

[Ydrl]

@MDP the person you just interacted with is a known troll from last year. I wouldn't bother commenting on their posts. They pop up under different usernames after they get banned, so if you see the same speech patterns and tags of me and Mr. Visser, feel free to ignore them.

[Ydrl]

@koechophe thank you

[MDP]

@YdrlAh I should have figured as much. Thanks and sorry again, and good luck with your current round of apps!

[Ydrl]

42 minutes ago, MDP said:

@YdrlAh I should have figured as much. Thanks and sorry again, and good luck with your current round of apps!

These things happen. And I've had all my apps submitted since early December. The problem is I wrote something that two of my professors say is the best poem I've written that they've seen. And it isn't in any of my manuscripts...

[MDP]

4 minutes ago, Ydrl said:

The problem is I wrote something that two of my professors say is the best poem I've written that they've seen. And it isn't in any of my manuscripts...

@YdrlAlways so frustrating, been there with my first round. Feeling more confident this time, but it's still such a crapshoot, or at least it feels like it. I get worried that my app won't even get viewed at some of the schools I've applied to. But what can you do, I guess, aside from keep busy and try to stay positive! But I don't know if MY ego can withstand another round of across-the-board rejections hahaha

[MDP]

What’s everyone reading currently? Need recs to distract me from the waiting period… ?

[koechophe]

11 hours ago, MDP said:

Feeling more confident this time, but it's still such a crapshoot, or at least it feels like it.

Yeah, I feel that too. Like, I feel better about my application. My writing sample is a lot stronger, my personal statement is WAY stronger, my resume looks better, I actually have a degree now instead of being in the middle of my senior year, and here's hoping we won't have as awful of a year as last year (apparently global pandemic = let's all go to grad school?)

11 hours ago, MDP said:

But what can you do, I guess, aside from keep busy and try to stay positive! But I don't know if MY ego can withstand another round of across-the-board rejections hahaha

My recommendation is to have some good friends or colleagues read your stuff. It's been just about the only thing that's boosted my ego after I had last year's straight rejections too. And right now, having friends view my writing helps me avoid that death-circle in my brain of "maybe you only THINK you're a good writer, since grad schools clearly didn't."
 

I've trained my friends and family NOT to say "Don't worry, I'm sure you'll get in!" because that one just really wasn't helpful (and also was what pretty much everyone said last year, and, well, I obviously didn't.)

3 hours ago, MDP said:

What’s everyone reading currently? Need recs to distract me from the waiting period… ?

If you're into super deep sci-fi, I've been reading the Otherland series by Tad Williams and enjoying it. His prose and pacing aren't the best, but character development is solid, and world building is fabulous. It smacks of realism more than a lot of sci-fi I've read. 

Edited December 30, 2021 by koechophe

[Meso]

@koechophe, are you sure you want to do the MFA when you are so young? You only get one shot. They won't let you get a second MFA in your genre. You get different things out of the MFA depending upon how advanced you are. I told @Ydrl to wait longer before starting her MFA. She declined my advice, and now regrets it, trying to get out of her school. 

Edited December 30, 2021 by Meso

[koechophe]

4 hours ago, Meso said:

are you sure you want to do the MFA when you are so young? You only get one shot.

Yes, yes I am =).

As much as I'm just a 25-year-old, I'm also to this point as a writer where I feel like I really crave more advanced peers and instructors.

My undergraduate was amazing for the first few years. I had teachers who knew a lot more than me, I had writing groups where I got all these new opinions, and I blossomed and grew a lot. 

But then I hit this point where I felt like I knew about as much as most of my instructors when it came to writing theory. My instructors started giving me less and less feedback other than "you did this well," and I stopped getting anything but positive feedback from my writing groups. I had to scrounge more and more for advice on writing, and I entered the role of mentor rather than student.

And don't get me wrong, I love the role of mentor. I worked as a tutor all throughout undergraduate and I managed a writer's workshop. I was a creative writing instructor too for other student employees. It was great, but I'm craving a truly advanced group of writers that I can worth with, learn from, and grow with.

As much as it's like literally nothing in comparison to the long, long periods of time people have spent, I've been writing seriously since I was fifteen. I've been extremely active on online writing forums and advice sites, I've read so many books on the craft, and I really do feel like I'm ready for the next stage.

I don't think that age = experience. I don't think any reasonable person would say that I'm not an advanced writer PURELY because I'm 25 (they are welcome to make that argument for other reasons ?)

And for reference, I thought it was a good question that maybe other people might wonder about, which is why I posted my experiences. I'm ignoring the off-color comments in the post, because I know better than to feed the troll. 

 

[Ydrl]

9 hours ago, MDP said:

What’s everyone reading currently? Need recs to distract me from the waiting period… ?

Currently reading a book of poetry called Sleeping and Waking by Michael O'Brien. This book is an especially good lesson in taking sentences and cutting off the fat and connective tissue. I'm enjoying it so far.

Also just finished At the Drive-In Volcano by Aimee Nezhukumatathil as well after getting a recommendation from here last year!

[MDP]

6 hours ago, koechophe said:

I don't think that age = experience.

Agreed! I'm 23, and I know 19-year-olds with more "life experience" than me and 30-somethings with less. I feel like the only time age REALLY plays in with these apps is when someone tries to get into a program right out of undergrad. I saw someone else talking about this on a different thread -- how the adcom wants to see that a person can keep deadlines and write beyond the prompts and bounds of their college curriculum. I think that's pretty smart, honestly, and in hindsight, I'm glad I didn't get in when I applied as a senior. I didn't know it then, but I definitely wasn't ready (hell, maybe I'm not ready now!) 

5 hours ago, Ydrl said:

This book is an especially good lesson in taking sentences and cutting off the fat and connective tissue.

Nice. I'll have to check it out. Have you read Dept. of Speculation by Jenny Offill? I admire that book for the same reason. Every single word is pristine, imo. Not a syllable out of place.

11 hours ago, koechophe said:

I feel better about my application. My writing sample is a lot stronger, my personal statement is WAY stronger, my resume looks better, I actually have a degree now instead of being in the middle of my senior year, and here's hoping we won't have as awful of a year as last year (apparently global pandemic = let's all go to grad school?)

Totally feel this too. Fingers crossed!

Edited December 30, 2021 by MDP