2022 Creative Writing MFA Applicants Forum

[Rm714]

Looks like all of the NYU waitlist notifications have gone out. I didn't hear anything, which I will admit stings, but one of my best friends got waitlisted for Poetry, so that eased the pain a little, in a way, since he's received nothing but rejections til now. I've got high hopes for him.

[oubukibun]

Okay, next time I need a school to respond, I will just post here first, haha.

Received an email this afternoon from M.O. Walsh, the director of The Creative Writing Workshop at the University of New Orleans, to invite me into the program for the Fall Term!

Woo-hoo! (And good news for all who applied, as the word should be getting out soon enough too, I hope, one way or another)

Sadly, there is no information about funding (the tragic nature of my delightedness in being accepted is that I'm not quite good enough to be offered monies, not yet anyway, lol), but I (as other applicants I'm sure) am being placed forward for consideration with scholarships and Graduate Assistant positions.  I did the only rational thing and emailed back thanking Mr. Walsh and informing him I was ready to do anything necessary to put my name forward for funding as that will be the only thing that will make my final decision for me.

This is why I chose the 8 schools I did: all schools I wanted to go to, all schools I would have fought for.  Fairbanks remains my dream, but UNO was my second choice, so this app year has turned out interestingly for me.  I either made the best possible choices in schools, or I just know where my writing stands well enough to seek out programs that'll nurture/accept it.  Or both.  I have spent a lot of time writing (read: my entire life) and thinking about the damn writing.  Dividends needed to be paid at some point, goddamnit!

Once more into the fray!  I was not expecting this, but, of ALL the schools I applied to, I at least suspected I stood the best shot of getting into UNO with its larger cohort (20 this year, it seems, according to Poets & Writers, though obviously that includes all genres, etc.).

Anyway, sorry for the text dump, but yes, UNO is finally reaching out, they have returned from their arctic bunkers with decisions!

 

Toodles for now, and congrats to everyone who's received welcomed news from their schools this week!

 

Edited March 15, 2022 by oubukibun

[zonepri]

Hi! Looking for some advice - I got into New School with partial funding and was waitlisted at NYU. Do you think I should try to get off the waitlist at NYU (if that's even possible)? Is it a substantially better program? Would love to hear some perspectives. Sending good vibes to every one -  this process is nerve wracking and kind of awful.

Edited March 15, 2022 by zonepri

[VillaTheKilla]

42 minutes ago, zonepri said:

Hi! Looking for some advice - I got into New School with partial funding and was waitlisted at NYU. Do you think I should try to get off the waitlist at NYU (if that's even possible)? Is it a substantially better program? Would love to hear some perspectives. Sending good vibes to every one -  this process is nerve wracking and kind of awful.

Almost same situation here. Accepted by a school with scant funding and waitlisted by NYU. Want to know if it is even possible to get off the waitlist at NYU...

[zonepri]

7 minutes ago, VillaTheKilla said:

Almost same situation here. Accepted by a school with scant funding and waitlisted by NYU. Want to know if it is even possible to get off the waitlist at NYU...

Congrats! I reached out to some people I know to hear their perspectives - I'll let you know if I get any good advice. I was thinking of sending an email to the program just to cover my bases.

[floralhell]

Is it typical to be asked not to post on social media about getting into a school? I got a call yesterday from a program letting me know I'd been accepted first off the waitlist, and at the end of the call they asked me to keep it under wraps. I'm super excited but feeling a little nervous about sharing news! 

[1moreX]

I'm in a quandary, too, about two schools, though not regarding funding. I've been accepted to both and I'm not knowledgeable enough to judge which is better for me and which is just plain better. Of course, I've scoured their websites, the bios of the faculty, the publishing graduates. I'm still not sure.

So I want to ask, purely on academics, how do you rank a program, how do you compare? If anyone would be willing to spend a few messages helping me, maybe we can message privately if that's possible here. I'd like to talk about the two schools specifically but feel a little exposed in this very open format.

Those of you on this list seem to know your schools well. I don't.

Thanks for considering.

[eternalwhitenights]

5 hours ago, oubukibun said:

Okay, next time I need a school to respond, I will just post here first, haha.

Received an email this afternoon from M.O. Walsh, the director of The Creative Writing Workshop at the University of New Orleans, to invite me into the program for the Fall Term!

Woo-hoo! (And good news for all who applied, as the word should be getting out soon enough too, I hope, one way or another)

Sadly, there is no information about funding (the tragic nature of my delightedness in being accepted is that I'm not quite good enough to be offered monies, not yet anyway, lol), but I (as other applicants I'm sure) am being placed forward for consideration with scholarships and Graduate Assistant positions.  I did the only rational thing and emailed back thanking Mr. Walsh and informing him I was ready to do anything necessary to put my name forward for funding as that will be the only thing that will make my final decision for me.

This is why I chose the 8 schools I did: all schools I wanted to go to, all schools I would have fought for.  Fairbanks remains my dream, but UNO was my second choice, so this app year has turned out interestingly for me.  I either made the best possible choices in schools, or I just know where my writing stands well enough to seek out programs that'll nurture/accept it.  Or both.  I have spent a lot of time writing (read: my entire life) and thinking about the damn writing.  Dividends needed to be paid at some point, goddamnit!

Once more into the fray!  I was not expecting this, but, of ALL the schools I applied to, I at least suspected I stood the best shot of getting into UNO with its larger cohort (20 this year, it seems, according to Poets & Writers, though obviously that includes all genres, etc.).

Anyway, sorry for the text dump, but yes, UNO is finally reaching out, they have returned from their arctic bunkers with decisions!

 

Toodles for now, and congrats to everyone who's received welcomed news from their schools this week!

 

Congratulations, friend!  I just have to say, too--your posts just make me so happy every time I see them, and I think you're a really delightful, lovely, old-souled type of person overall.  I somehow imagine you as a literary chap, clad in plaid, with a paddy hat, smoking a pipe, conversing in an English pub with the likes of Tolkien and C.S. Lewis and other Inklings, scribbling away late into the night on your stories, and the wholesomeness of that just makes my heart feel all warm and lovely inside. ? All that to say: I am so, so happy for you that this season is really turning out great for you, and I hope you get funding so you can attend your program of choice. You've got it, and can't wait to see how amazing your writing turns out, especially after being nurtured in one of these programs!

Edited March 16, 2022 by eternalwhitenights

[oubukibun]

Hahaha, as long as you're delighted, I'm delighted.

The excess of personality in my writing is really just the product of spending most of my childhood and my puberty-heavy years as a wallflower.

Thank you for the well wishes, and here's to them manifesting not just for me, but for as many out there as possible.

As for the pub imagery: Tolkien and Lindgren were the first authors to make me fall in love with reading (that and history textbooks, bizarre, I know!) as a kid, so swap out Mr. Lewis for good ol' Longstockings, and that's one hell of a pub-ride.

All my best to everyone, and for good fortune to bless us all, preferably in a way that would make Jerry Maguire proud.

 

Toodles for now!  Oh, and 'happy' one month left before April 15th!!

[koechophe]

12 hours ago, Ogilvie said:

Do you have a factual basis for this assertion? The only hard data I've seen regarding age and admissions probability is for Iowa. An older applicant filed a discrimination complaint with DOE. The data Iowa was forced to release showed applicants over 40 were much less likely to be accepted than younger applicants. The data spanned multiple admission cycles.

As someone who actually has done semi-professional statistical analysis, the data here actually doesn't show discrimination against older people. 

Whenever we deal with data, we have to consider sample size. The sample size shown here for people over 40 is about 5.5% of the total pool. That's what we'd call an extreme minority, and since we're just dealing with 100 people (or less) in each category AND we're dealing with acceptance ratios that, at max, hit 3.6%, there's no way to conclusively say that the data points to a trend.

Take, for example, the fact that 46-50 year olds have a 2.5% acceptance compared to the 1% from the 41-45 year olds. Does that mean that group is randomly more favored? Actually it means they literally got 1 more acceptance. Because a single acceptance can sway the stats so heavily with such a small group (and because "good" or "bad" writing samples will always have an element of subjectivity to them) there's no way you can look at that data and say it's evidence of it being "harder" to get in. 

The truth of the matter is, not enough older people apply for the statistics to be meaningful. Try not to read too much into these statistics, there's not enough here to draw any sort of conclusions. 

I can't offer you hard evidence that there isn't ageism in MFA admissions. My bet is that individuals may or may not be slightly ageist--because we all have subconscious biases to some degree--but I haven't found any strong evidence that it does exist. And I've read a number of articles by adcoms who say they tend to prefer people who aren't coming right out of undergrad, and they like more experienced writers.

If I can share some personal experience... it's really easy in this process to look for every reason as to why you're not getting accepted. It's easy to look for a scapegoat, because having the reason be anything OTHER than our own writing is much, much more palatable.

Last year, I did that with Covid. I was like, "This is a crummy year to apply, and that's why I didn't get in." And it meant that I didn't do as much work as I should've on improving my sample. Getting straight rejections earlier this year was a wake-up call that I needed to work more on my writing. 

At the end of the day, all we can really do is improve our writing, and I do believe that anyone with strong enough writing will get into a great program. 

Edited March 16, 2022 by koechophe

[koechophe]

4 hours ago, floralhell said:

Is it typical to be asked not to post on social media about getting into a school?

It's not the "normal" thing, but I've seen a number of people post on Draft that they were asked not to share where on social media. I wouldn't consider it a red flag, or anything. (No idea why they care, but idk, I'm sure there's some thought process there).

Anyway, congrats on getting in!

[autumn wind]

6 hours ago, zonepri said:

Hi! Looking for some advice - I got into New School with partial funding and was waitlisted at NYU. Do you think I should try to get off the waitlist at NYU (if that's even possible)? Is it a substantially better program? Would love to hear some perspectives. Sending good vibes to every one -  this process is nerve wracking and kind of awful.

draft veterans have said that an nyu waitlist notification essentially guarantees that you'll be paying for at least 50% of tuition, though it's likely that number will be higher (since non-waitlisted admits are the ones who are receiving all the fellowship funding).

here's a quote from someone asked if nyu waitlist candidates can expect any $$$: "I highly, highly doubt it as the waitlist follows a short list of fellowship candidates followed by a long list of candidates accepted on half-tuition. Worth asking if there’s any changes since previous years but just posting this as I personally am declining and recommend prioritizing firm funded offers!"

on the off chance that a fully funded nyu admit declines their offer, one of the 50% tuition admits will be moved up and considered for that fellowship. and if one of the 50% tuition admits declines, a waitlist candidate will take their place. so the trickle down funding effect isn't ideal.

between the new school and nyu, nyu is by far and large the more competitive, prestigious program, and more consistently produces award-winning authors. my impression of new school, based on what i've seen from applicants/admits/veterans, is that it's less competitive (historically speaking, the program has been known to accept a far greater number of applicants than the average mfa, so it's garnered a reputation for being "non-selective" and super expensive) and its funding situation is worse than nyu's. new school at best offers 75% tuition coverage, while nyu does in fact dole out a number of fully funded fellowship offers to admits they consider most competitive/exceptional. teaching opportunities at new school are also lackluster/poorly funded (as teaching is not emphasized in the program). at nyu, every admitted student is guaranteed the opportunity to teach one class (though they can fight for a second if they want).

essentially, both programs carry the hallmarks/stigmas of a new york mfa (semi-predatory funding practices in an insanely expensive city that regularly guarantee lifelong student loan debt, small campuses, confusing teaching opportunities), but nyu has a lot of prestige/clout going for it. i personally know a couple of non-writers (as in, they didn't want to make a career of writing / were using the mfa for non-novel-producing reasons) who applied to new school so they could, for example, become better book agents. this is not to say that you can't go to these schools, learn a ton, and come out an even better writer with a publishable manuscript. just that there are drawbacks to the funding situations at both, particularly at a program with less elitist prestige (like new school).

one piece of advice i've heard echoed over and over: you should never do a creative graduate degree if the program forces you to take out loans to do so. 

if you have family/loved ones to support you, come from a background of generational wealth, have built up a huge savings cushion, have a well-paying, full-time job, are living somewhere inexpensive, etc etc, there's obviously more nuance to the decision, but having to take out $10k in loans each semester to attend new school (as i've seen graduates discuss on draft) is never worth it. you can diy your degree and still get a novel published without debilitating yourself financially (or you can take a year to study craft on your own and reapply to funded programs).

as for "getting off a waitlist," it's really just a game of chance most of the time. there's no foolproof method for getting into a school off a waitlist, and it's often a waiting game that will leave you in suspense until the very last minute; some are notified that they got in past the april 15th deadline. you can try emailing nyu to ask if the waitlist is ranked (so you can potentially figure out your placement / how long the list is), but most schools who don't already tell you that with your waitlist notification probably won't readily give you that information. as for what to do to make clear your interest: email the school expressing how much you'd love to attend, that it's your #1 choice, talk up the program, etc etc etc. 

you can also email a second time (at a later date) to request updates on waitlist movement, or follow draft to monitor declined acceptances. to my knowledge, nyu's waitlist for its mfa is quite large, so you're less likely to get in than at a program who admits, for example, 2-3 fiction writers each cycle. i've seen some people on draft say that waitlist candidates can send adcoms more of their writing/links to published work to nudge nudge them, but i don't know how effective that would be (and i'm more inclined to believe that sending unsolicited writing would only backfire).

Edited March 16, 2022 by autumn wind

[fireplace]

Hi! I just thought I'd share for helpfulness & folks waiting to hear. a few weeks ago I was shortlisted at Hunter; I visited and interviewed and was just fully accepted a few days ago! 

[RosA-R]

1 hour ago, fireplace said:

Hi! I just thought I'd share for helpfulness & folks waiting to hear. a few weeks ago I was shortlisted at Hunter; I visited and interviewed and was just fully accepted a few days ago! 

Congrats!! Was this for fiction, poetry, or nonfiction?

[fireplace]

24 minutes ago, RosA-R said:

Congrats!! Was this for fiction, poetry, or nonfiction?

fiction! but I know poetry is out as well.

[Oryx]

re: NYU waitlist. I was waitlisted in 2019 and I didn't hear a peep until July 8. 

[panglosian]

Brown poetry acceptance posted, added today but accepted yesterday

[1moreX]

1 hour ago, fireplace said:

fiction! but I know poetry is out as well.

Congratulations! That is one great place to study fiction.

[orangejuicefiend]

I've been lurking on this forum without an account for a while and wanted to say congratulations to everyone! I was accepted into the Rutgers Newark program for poetry and have some questions regarding the program, since it's been hard to find much information about them online. Does anyone have insight into the program itself or their general reputation within the community? I was waitlisted for NYU as well -- is that worth waiting for (in relation to the Rutgers Newark acceptance)? Has anyone else heard from Rutgers Newark for poetry?

[oubukibun]

Hiya,

I'm in an adjacent boat to yours (applied to Rutgers-Camden), but haven't heard a peep, so either they are still making decisions or just waiting to update portals with rejections.

I know this is incredibly helpful to you, haha, but I just wanted to share so you don't feel quite so lost rowing the foggy waters.

Also, congrats!! 

 

P.S. Certainly just take this as my opinion and not the gospel of truth, but...  Wouldn't it be best to accept a guaranteed position than to gamble on a waitlist known to be quite long?  I don't know how much Rutgers-Newark gives in funding, but I can't fathom it's less than NYU for applicants on a waitlist.  Again, just my own speculation.  I don't go to casinos for a reason, lol.  The only gambles I take are on the page.

Edited March 16, 2022 by oubukibun

[humbledarrogance]

38 minutes ago, orangejuicefiend said:

I've been lurking on this forum without an account for a while and wanted to say congratulations to everyone! I was accepted into the Rutgers Newark program for poetry and have some questions regarding the program, since it's been hard to find much information about them online. Does anyone have insight into the program itself or their general reputation within the community? I was waitlisted for NYU as well -- is that worth waiting for (in relation to the Rutgers Newark acceptance)? Has anyone else heard from Rutgers Newark for poetry?

tbh there might not be much. if im not mistaken it's fairly a new program. i believe it's 15 years old? its faculty has a great line-up though. i mean John Keene is a MacArthur "Genius" Grant recipient. i believe it's more about what you do with your time at a program over whatever prestige it might have. unless there is something specific that you want.

 

i do have a question though. if you had doubts about Rutgers to begin with why did you apply?

 

 

Edited March 16, 2022 by humbledarrogance

[humbledarrogance]

[]

Edited March 16, 2022 by humbledarrogance

[orangejuicefiend]

5 minutes ago, humbledarrogance said:

looking at draft and some posts here, it sometimes feels like people apply to these programs just to have something to do rather than any actual reason. some seem like they want the ego boost of being accepted somewhere rather than having any actual interest in bettering their writing.

Oops! Didn't mean to come off that way. I'm actually super in love with the program, but because there's so little about it that I can find online (besides what's on their website), I just wanted to see if people had any additional insight (positive or negative) into the program that I didn't already know about.

[humbledarrogance]

5 minutes ago, orangejuicefiend said:

Oops! Didn't mean to come off that way. I'm actually super in love with the program, but because there's so little about it that I can find online (besides what's on their website), I just wanted to see if people had any additional insight (positive or negative) into the program that I didn't already know about.

i truly didn't mean that post about you. i should have specified that. i was referring more to the general attitude to folks on draft and here. i feel if you're really wanting to go to NYU and have hope about going then to just wait it out. what's really important is where you feel you fit in the best

 

[orangejuicefiend]

20 minutes ago, oubukibun said:

Hiya,

I'm in an adjacent boat to yours (applied to Rutgers-Camden), but haven't heard a peep, so either they are still making decisions or just waiting to update portals with rejections.

I know this is incredibly helpful to you, haha, but I just wanted to share so you don't feel quite so lost rowing the foggy waters.

Also, congrats!! 

 

P.S. Certainly just take this as my opinion and not the gospel of truth, but...  Wouldn't it be best to accept a guaranteed position than to gamble on a waitlist known to be quite long?  I don't know how much Rutgers-Newark gives in funding, but I can't fathom it's less than NYU for applicants on a waitlist.  Again, just my own speculation.  I don't go to casinos for a reason, lol.  The only gambles I take are on the page.

Thanks for the response  Definitely helps in feeling less lost in foggy water! Also you're definitely right about that.