emsmith Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 (edited) 23 minutes ago, PeanutButterBread said: I feel EXACTLY the same way- honestly it feels like a lottery system sometimes! The stats are definitely discouraging, it really sucks it is! a total lottery! I feel like the chances of winning the lottery are actually higher! 21 minutes ago, forpsych said: I completely understand how you are feeling. 4.00 GPA, 5 conference presentations, 2 publications, and I have been working in clinical research for 2 years and I haven't even received an interview invite this cycle despite research interests aligning closely. This truly is the most frustrating experience. As others have shown on this thread, consistency does pay off, but I think this is my last time applying if I am unsuccessful. You sound like an amazing applicant!! Yeah, there are other paths that are rewarding and challenging and that we can be successful in. I think I will apply one more year since I'm finishing a few courses to improve my transcripts and it feels like a waste if I don't apply again, but next year I think I will at the same time apply for non-clinical programs as well. 20 minutes ago, SoundofSilence said: It IS ridiculous and your "rant" is totally justified. As it stands right now, there are many MANY applicants that already have the skills and experience to hit the ground running in grad school and so very few places. I am aware that there are a few that just apply to give it a try, but my own personal experience tells me there are few and far between, because the reputation of competitiveness has reached most psych students. It doesn't help that in many cases it's up to the very specific whims of faculty members who may have other priorities when picking students. I realize that there are many great POIs there, I am not talking about them. But I've met quite a few who prioritize taking only students that want to follow their specific niche academic path, or who bring specific skills in their lab because they are chasing some grants, or some other self-serving goal. And in turn, our profession loses out on many qualified candidates that could have done the research and clinical work much needed by under-served communities and improved the mental health for so many people in the country... I've been thinking what could be done to change this and to be honest I haven't come up with anything. But something has to change. I am committed to giving my feedback and putting effort into changing the admissions process but I have yet to come up with other more specific ways to help. What do you think? Thanks so much everyone for agreeing - it makes me feel a lot better to know that other people think this is super F-ed up. I totally agree about some supervisors taking student for the "wrong" reasons - I had a conversation with someone as well about people taking younger and more naive students in order to basically mould them into research minions who will be less willing to set boundaries and prioritize their own projects (and mental health) in order to get ahead on other grants projects etc. I had one friend whose supervisor told her she should be writing up her PhD in her "spare" time, and doing unpaid research work full time instead. I have no idea what the solution is. I mean, I guess an increase in funding for more training spots, but seriously, if UTSC is getting $75,000+ from application fees alone, they can afford to pay a few more students their measly PhD stipend. I think the whole system needs to be destroyed and start again. We desperately need more mental health professionals, and there is a desperate need for psych research funding too, but where either of these things will come from I have no idea. Edited January 17, 2022 by emsmith SoundofSilence, mewtru, space-psych and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoundofSilence Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 10 minutes ago, emsmith said: I totally agree about some supervisors taking student for the "wrong" reasons - I had a conversation with someone as well about people taking younger and more naive students in order to basically mould them into research minions who will be less willing to set boundaries and prioritize their own projects (and mental health) in order to get ahead on other grants projects etc. I had one friend whose supervisor told her she should be writing up her PhD in her "spare" time, and doing unpaid research work full time instead. I just told this to another poster on here, who is more mature and has more experience - sometimes having more experience and/or another grad degree is seen as getting in the way of how "trainable" you are. Also - the exploitation of grad students happens all over the planet in many fields. Not that it's right, but we definitely need some different form of accountability for faculty, especially since very few of us now can follow the academic path. By the time many of us get our PhD, there will be very few tenure-track places as it is, so the current system is basically training PhDs for jobs that won't really exist in the future (except for a lucky few). 10 minutes ago, emsmith said: I have no idea what the solution is. I mean, I guess an increase in funding for more training spots, but seriously, if UTSC is getting $75,000+ from application fees alone, they can afford to pay a few more students their measly PhD stipend. I think the whole system needs to be destroyed and start again. We desperately need more mental health professionals, and there is a desperate need for psych research funding too, but where either of these things will come from I have no idea. It's not just about the funding. Although the funding is also a burden on students. It's the whole "apprenticeship-model". Sure, you get some benefits from being mentored one-on-one, but only if you have a good PI, if they have the time and if they have the resources to support your work. So many ifs. The reality is most clinical students will be in mostly clinical roles, and even the clinical researchers could benefit from other types of mentorship. How about having a group of faculty mentor in rotation multiple students, so that we can increase a little class size? Or dedicated clinical mentors that can supervise more people, with less research expected of that faculty member? I realize practicums are limited in how many people they can train, but having increased class sizes would alleviate the problem in time and also bring more services to the people that need them. Also, the availability of a different type of doctoral degree (such as a PsyD) might be more in line with the training needed to obtain good clinical psychologists and free up the strain on PhD programs. emsmith and InspectorPudding 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoundofSilence Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 Sorry about the derailment of the thread. To be on-topic: I forgot to post I got a rejection from Ottawa last Friday. It was an email to check the portal with the decision there. carlrogersfan98 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gradschool2022 Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 53 minutes ago, emsmith said: omg this is ridiculous. Does anyone else feel like it's completely pointless to even apply?? I didn't apply to UTSC but I know a lot of programs will have similar numbers. I feel so discouraged by the stats. I know that I am a really good applicant and would do really well in clinical psych. I know it's hard, but I know I have the skills and background to do a good job. I've been working in research for years. I have more publications than many PhD students have when they finish their PhD. I have plenty of conference abstracts, and I've won awards for presentations. I know if I applied to a non-clinical PhD I would have very few problems getting in. And I'm not listing this to brag but my point is I know I am a capable researcher (as are all of you!) and it is absolutely insane that the odds are THIS small. I don't know how they even decide who gets interviewed. Nobody with a GPA less than 4? No less than 10 publications? I don't get it. Sorry for angry ranting, I don't mean to bring anyone down but holy moly these stats are discouraging. You’re basically voicing out what everyone else feels and you’re absolutely right to be frustrated! This is my third time applying and I haven’t received an offer yet, despite getting interviews. When I show my CV to my coworkers and supervisors they all swear up and down that I’d be a perfect fit for their program, but once admission cycles roll around, I end up not getting selected even though I have several publications and conference presentations and I know almost everyone here is on the same boat. I’ve had supervisors who told me they rejected someone over a single word in their letter of interest because it rubbed them the wrong way. It is truly a lottery draw and no one is winning. SoundofSilence and emsmith 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoundofSilence Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 3 minutes ago, Gradschool2022 said: I’ve had supervisors who told me they rejected someone over a single word in their letter of interest because it rubbed them the wrong way. It is truly a lottery draw and no one is winning. Honestly you wouldn't want to work with a person that does that anyway. I know many of us sometimes say we would do almost anything to get into a program, but spending the next 5-6-whatever years working and depending on someone like that is a nightmare, and not worth it. emsmith, forpsych, InspectorPudding and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gradschool2022 Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 3 minutes ago, SoundofSilence said: Honestly you wouldn't want to work with a person that does that anyway. I know many of us sometimes say we would do almost anything to get into a program, but spending the next 5-6-whatever years working and depending on someone like that is a nightmare, and not worth it. Agreed! Imagine having to rely on someone who’s that inflexible. Getting matched with a supervisor who doesn’t have your best interest at heart would guarantee a miserable grad experience. Too bad you can’t always tell who the reasonable ones are before it’s too late. Clinicalpsych1, emsmith, InspectorPudding and 2 others 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emsmith Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 @SoundofSilenceYes yes yes!! you bring up so many important points. 15 minutes ago, SoundofSilence said: I just told this to another poster on here, who is more mature and has more experience - sometimes having more experience and/or another grad degree is seen as getting in the way of how "trainable" you are. Also - the exploitation of grad students happens all over the planet in many fields. Not that it's right, but we definitely need some different form of accountability for faculty, especially since very few of us now can follow the academic path. By the time many of us get our PhD, there will be very few tenure-track places as it is, so the current system is basically training PhDs for jobs that won't really exist in the future (except for a lucky few). This year has really shifted my thinking about what to expect from my future career. Still my number 1 goal is to become a clinical academic, but considering not only the difficulties getting in to a program, but the time it takes to complete, the abysmal work-life balance, the awful "pay" as a graduate student for 5-7 years, and the very real possibility that your supervisor could suck and you have zero support - it's going to suck it a lot of ways. Whereas a "regular" old non-clinical PhD will be done in 3 years, still have awful pay and potentially poor work-life balance, but fewer demands since there won't be clinical classes and placements etc. then you graduate sooner, get a real job sooner, and you can also work in industry and get paid significantly more than an academic or a clinician. Will you make the same impact with your work? No, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad route or you won't be able to help the population you're interested in working with. I've been trying to reframe a lot of things and accept that who knows, my career might not be what I want it to be now, but it could still be really good and exciting, once I figure out what that will be. 25 minutes ago, SoundofSilence said: It's not just about the funding. Although the funding is also a burden on students. It's the whole "apprenticeship-model". Sure, you get some benefits from being mentored one-on-one, but only if you have a good PI, if they have the time and if they have the resources to support your work. So many ifs. The reality is most clinical students will be in mostly clinical roles, and even the clinical researchers could benefit from other types of mentorship. How about having a group of faculty mentor in rotation multiple students, so that we can increase a little class size? Or dedicated clinical mentors that can supervise more people, with less research expected of that faculty member? I realize practicums are limited in how many people they can train, but having increased class sizes would alleviate the problem in time and also bring more services to the people that need them. Also, the availability of a different type of doctoral degree (such as a PsyD) might be more in line with the training needed to obtain good clinical psychologists and free up the strain on PhD programs. Yes - so many real options. Especially the availability of primarily clinical training degrees. I know a lot of people who are not at all interested in conducting their own research. Sure they need to understand research and how to assess evidence based treatments, but do not need to have a PhD. Even increasing the number of terminal master's programs and where people can be licensed would be a huge step for people who are solely interested in careers as clinicians. SoundofSilence, PeanutButterBread and OhPsych 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babooshka Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 Was wondering if anyone has any interview advice as it is my first time getting interviews in three years! I've got one with SFU on Thursday with a graduate student. I'm assuming general questions like -why this school -why these faculty members -why clinical psychology and not experimental -what are you currently reading/what is the last paper you read -what are your career goals and how will this program further them -what are your research interests and what do you intend to pursue in this program, etc. Are there any questions that you found surprising in previous years? Or just general advice going into them and how much prep I should be doing? Many thanks in advance to you all! Lavender_1, SoundofSilence and carlrogersfan98 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenbloobery Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 Hi all! Just wondering if anyone has heard anything from Guelph, OISE or Ryerson? Or if anyone has an inside scoop on what's going on? prospectivegradstudent21 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoundofSilence Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 21 minutes ago, babooshka said: Was wondering if anyone has any interview advice as it is my first time getting interviews in three years! I've got one with SFU on Thursday with a graduate student. I'm assuming general questions like -why this school -why these faculty members -why clinical psychology and not experimental -what are you currently reading/what is the last paper you read -what are your career goals and how will this program further them -what are your research interests and what do you intend to pursue in this program, etc. Are there any questions that you found surprising in previous years? Or just general advice going into them and how much prep I should be doing? Many thanks in advance to you all! Congrats on the interview!! You seem to have a pretty good list of questions going. I would also have prepared an example of a challenging interpersonal situation - a conflict or something similar and how you resolved it. Also, I cannot stress this enough - make sure you have a good amount of your own questions! This serves two purposes: shows enthusiasm and that you really did your research on the program and also helps you figure out if the lab/program is a good match for you. Best of luck! PeanutButterBread, babooshka and Lavender_1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clinicallypsych3d Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 Just received a rejection from York yesterday. SoundofSilence 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoundofSilence Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 4 minutes ago, sidxx said: Just received a rejection from York yesterday. Thank you for sharing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyc345 Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 1 hour ago, jenbloobery said: Hi all! Just wondering if anyone has heard anything from Guelph, OISE or Ryerson? Or if anyone has an inside scoop on what's going on? Hi, I received a pre-lim interview from Ryerson a while ago and was told that we'd hear about the official interview weekend by the end of January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlrogersfan98 Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 I was told in my prelim today that Queen's clinical interviews will likely be second week of Feb, and decisions of who will be invited to interview there will be out after the 25th Lavender_1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlrogersfan98 Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 1 hour ago, babooshka said: Was wondering if anyone has any interview advice as it is my first time getting interviews in three years! I've got one with SFU on Thursday with a graduate student. I'm assuming general questions like -why this school -why these faculty members -why clinical psychology and not experimental -what are you currently reading/what is the last paper you read -what are your career goals and how will this program further them -what are your research interests and what do you intend to pursue in this program, etc. Are there any questions that you found surprising in previous years? Or just general advice going into them and how much prep I should be doing? Many thanks in advance to you all! I think if you prepared answers for those you will be more than fine. It's important to not over-prepare - these interviews have been slightly more conversational than job interviews IMO, so be ready to be a little flexible and ask follow-up questions of your own to things that your POI shares with you! babooshka 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siriuslypadfoot Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 5 minutes ago, carlrogersfan98 said: I was told in my prelim today that Queen's clinical interviews will likely be second week of Feb, and decisions of who will be invited to interview there will be out after the 25th I don't suppose your POI also mentioned whether they are an anomaly doing prelim interviews and the rest of us still have a chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlrogersfan98 Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 Just now, siriuslypadfoot said: I don't suppose your POI also mentioned whether they are an anomaly doing prelim interviews and the rest of us still have a chance? Haha well in all seriousness I don't know! Sounds like the profs just have to submit a list to the committee and how they shortlist is up to each prof. No idea if they were an anomaly! siriuslypadfoot 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopelessbuthoping Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 I applied to 4 schools and 5 programs but haven't heard back from any of them. I knew going my chances were low but Im starting to get nervous that I haven't made it to the next round of any school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wannabeclinical Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 Has anyone heard from UNB? Would love to chat! On a side note...this is my fifth year applying. My first two years I didn't get a single interview and the last two years I got a few interviews but no offers. I only applied to 2 schools this year and I have an interview for one so far. Considering it a 50% success rate right now lol. Just trying to offer some encouragement for those of you who are just starting out! If this is what you want then persevere...keep applying, keep seeking research opportunities, keep making connections with professors you are really interested in, and keep honing in on what you feel passionate about. My honours supervisor gave me some really good advice last year. He told me that there are a lot of different paths you can take to get to similar end goals. Clinical doesn't have to be the be-all end-all. Personally, I have broadened my search a bit and realized I could be really happy doing OT or ed psych, as well. I wholeheartedly understand how disappointing the rejection is but it has also offered me many opportunities to have different work experiences, get to know myself, and build up resilience. All of which will ultimately make me a better practitioner in whatever career path I end up choosing. So hang in there! psychoanalyzed, OhPsych and clinpsychhopeful2021 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmac Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 On 1/6/2022 at 8:07 PM, clinclin said: Has anyone heard back from OISE? I havent yet sadly, starting to get antsy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCApA Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 I from Guelph myself and work under a clinical psychologist. I’m pretty sure she hasn’t sent out any informal interviews yet as neither I nor any of my coworkers received one yet. prospectivegradstudent21 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skowall Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 5 hours ago, SoundofSilence said: Sorry about the derailment of the thread. To be on-topic: I forgot to post I got a rejection from Ottawa last Friday. It was an email to check the portal with the decision there. Haven't heard anything from ottawa and there is nothing posted on my portal. Do you know if anyone has not heard back yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skowall Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 Has anyone heard from Calgary, Ryerson, Ottawa or UVic? I've only heard from UofM but only because I had a connection in the department. It's my first time applying so I'm super nervous. I'm also still in progress of finishing my undergrad degree. Does anyone know if we can resubmit transcripts or update it as we receive more marks? Let me know prospectivegradstudent21 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoundofSilence Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 10 minutes ago, skowall said: Haven't heard anything from ottawa and there is nothing posted on my portal. Do you know if anyone has not heard back yet? I've seen other people waiting on results. My guess is I didn't meet one of their requirements so filtered me right away (or some other similar reason). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siriuslypadfoot Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 1 hour ago, skowall said: Haven't heard anything from ottawa and there is nothing posted on my portal. Do you know if anyone has not heard back yet? I think the Final(tm) deadline for everything for Ottawa was sometime this month, so it might be a while still. Mine just says it's under review Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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