Official HKS Thread

[IMN22]

If your decision was only between HKS and the state school or perhaps another ranked outside the top 20 I might say just bite the bullet and take out the minimum amount of loans needed to attend Harvard. But from what I understand you also have a great offer from Duke's Sanford school which has one of the top public affairs programs in the nation. I do not foresee a substantial difference in post-graduation prospects, salaries, or networking opportunities (unless perhaps you are thinking international) that would warrant the extra debt of choosing the Kennedy School over Sanford. Harvard is of course the "top" school in the world but Duke itself is in a handful of elite schools, especially in the area of public affairs. You should also consider the very significant cost of living differences between Cambridge and Durham. You have a range of choices from wildly expensive Harvard to the fully funded state school option, Duke seems to be a reasonable middle ground that would be hard to go wrong with.

Hey all,

So I thought I had bowed out of this whole HKS thing after receiving nothing but loans (thanks! ) However, since then I've been talking to a number of older relatives, mentors and supervisors--really intelligent, accomplished, educated and non-crazy people--whose judgment I respect tremendously. And they've all urged me to consider going the Harvard route--particularly a few HKS alums who've told me that they still benefit a lot from their connections/experiences 15+ years after receiving their degrees, and that there's "no substitute" for the name recognition (though of course they'd say this, wouldn't they?)

Thing is, I also have two fairly great packages lined up--Duke has offered me about 70% tuition both years, and my state school (a well respected regional program) has given me more or less a full ride. When I've given the numbers to my mentors, the response has been, "These are all great options, BUT if you choose HKS it'll be SO worth it and you'll figure out how to make the money work even if you're not making bank right after your graduation." The fam is willing to help out but I would feel pretty bad taking a lot of their money since they already supported me through undergrad and aren't, you know, wealthy. HKS would almost certainly mean a six-figure loan and fairly substantial payments even if I take advantage of IBR/PSLF, and yet my thoughts are drifting more and more towards Cambridge again as I've gotten all this assurance/encouragement.

Am I completely batsh*t insane for even considering HKS at this point? Anyone else thinking of biting a similar bullet?

(If it helps, my intended field is international economic development policy)

Thanks!

[DCA-John]

Again, though - if the end game is international development, Duke's not the same league

[IKB]

Again, though - if the end game is international development, Duke's not the same league

Is an MPP at HKS really going to provide a student with that many more international development-related opportunities than an MPP at Duke (obviously the MPA/ID is a different story...)? Both programs seem to be strong policy programs with some interesting global components. I'd say the competing draws for those interested in international affairs/development are Harvard's top notch faculty and research centers and Duke's Center for International Development and Geneva Program.

I'm focusing on international development. I was accepted at both Duke and Harvard, but never seriously considered Harvard, as I was only offered $10k a year vs. Duke's full tuition offer. In the end, I decided to go with a fully funded M.A. in IR instead, anyway. But I never really saw Harvard's opportunities for someone interested in development as warranting six figure loans. Especially since most of us are going to be earning public sector salaries when we get out.

DCA-John, I'd be interested to hear why you think that Duke's not in the same league as Harvard for international development.

[DCA-John]

Both Robert Zoellick and Ban Ki Moon are HKS alums. Just sayin'...

In all seriousness, I would suggest the original poster contact the career office at both schools to see what percent of students go to multilaterals each year. True the MPA/ID is likely to place more than the MPP program, but I would imagine the ratio is significantly higher at HKS

[SkyDiver]

In response to the LadyinWaiting:

First and foremost, where do you see yourself working after grad school, in the US or abroad? IF you intend to stay in the US, I would doubt that your professional opportunities coming from Duke would be "70%" lower than those you might get coming from Harvard. However, if you intend to work abroad (I am international myself), then the "brand power" might be worth the extra debt (although it also means that you might have to pay off your loans first since working abroad might pay well in local terms but not necessarily in US dollars...).

In my case, for example, I intend to return to my country immediately after grad school and develop my career back home. If I were in a situation such as yours, I would be inclined to choose HKS over Duke IF, and only IF, the cost of attending Duke were significantly lower than the cost of attending HKS. The question that only you can answer is "how much lower would make it worth it?" From my professional experience in the public sector (WB and IMF), I would never borrow a cent more than one year's overall cost just because of the potential brand power (considering that I had an offer similar to yours at Duke). While coming from HKS might help getting you in the "short list" of institutions such as the WB and IMF, the degree by itself will rarely get you the job. Moreover, keep in mind that it might be easier for you to stand out at Duke (where the funding offer per se suggests that you are one of their top candidates) than at HKS...

To shed some light... I have been admitted without funding the the University of Chicago and waitlisted at HKS. I decided to defer the offer from Harris so that I can be reconsidered for funding next year because I do not think the degree will be worth the debt for me given my intentions (plus, having come so close, I would really like to give HKS another shoot before going anywhere else; it is. If I were offered a place a HKS, however, I would do all efforts to take it even this year regardless of how much debt it might be necessary (in which case I would postpone my plans of returning to my country until after I managed to pay the majority of whatever debt I undertake)...

In all cases, I think the option of deferring admissions is always very feasible particularly if you can dedicate time only to finding scholarships for an entire year (rather than having to go through the application process all over again) and even more so if you already have a good work opportunity at hand. I would believe that the Admissions Committee is always open to deferring when one does not have enough funding to attend their school now. Also, in the event that you choose to defer, I would ask them if you can be reconsidered for funding next year. If they say so, there is yet another reason to choose this route...

Best of luck in your decision...

I have to make a similar choice between funding at Duke, or accepting HKS without any assistance. And to make it worse I am an international student with no co-signer option So basically a huge loan will result. BUT, though I haven't spoken to many "experts" just mere observation makes me consider HKS very very seriously. Things seem to have changed since I got my admit to HKS. I feel I am suddenly taken more seriously by everyone, particularly my current and several potential employers. It is a great brand, and the fact you that you become associated with it changes things because people start believing that something must have really set you apart to have been given this opportunity. This belief (true or not!!) opens many doors. I absolutely loved everything I learnt about Duke, and the program sounds awesome, but HKS (I believe) would just leave me with more options later. If you are looking to focus on international issues, I think HKS would do the same for you.

I am very sure about HKS, I am only considering whether I should defer my offer or take it up this year. I have three options:

Defer: apply to scholarships I missed out on this year and work an additional year to save some funds. I have also found a relevant job that will help me build contacts for when I join HKS next year (impact assessment development work)

Defer: all of the above, but stay in my current job (which is anything but relevant btw) which will pay twice the salary of the more relevant job

Accept the offer: apply for whatever scholarships available and depend on loans.

I have to decide something over the weekend. Not sure what to yet.

[SkyDiver]

Having worked at three international organizations (WB and IMF included), I honestly haven't seen HKS MPP grads being offered positions simply because of the "brand power." It is also a fact that HKS' class is a lot bigger than most other schools and thus there are also more graduates out there disputing the same positions. On the other hand, MPA/ID graduates definitely have a stronger chance of getting into the WB's YP program (probably the "best" door into the organization in terms of career growth within the institution).

Both Robert Zoellick and Ban Ki Moon are HKS alums. Just sayin'...

In all seriousness, I would suggest the original poster contact the career office at both schools to see what percent of students go to multilaterals each year. True the MPA/ID is likely to place more than the MPP program, but I would imagine the ratio is significantly higher at HKS

[k.03]

So did anybody go to the MPA/ID visiting day? Any pictures? How was it?

[Crumpets]

Did anyone here accept an offer from HKS? Did you get any confirmation other than a generic "form submitted" e-mail?

[k.03]

Did anyone here accept an offer from HKS? Did you get any confirmation other than a generic "form submitted" e-mail?

I got a generic, but apparently manual e-mail about 24-48h later.

[Crumpets]

I got a generic, but apparently manual e-mail about 24-48h later.

Right, it just said "thank you for submitting your form," right? Nothing like "thank you for enrolling," or anything that would imply I accepted rather than turned them down??

[k.03]

Well I got:

- an immediate e-mail from notification@embark.com saying: "Congratulations! You have successfully submitted your online application to Harvard University JFK School of Government"

- another e-mail (actually 3h later, not 24h...) from messages@notification.embark.com saying: "Thank you for responding to our offer of admission online."

So yeah, no clear mention of accepting.

[Crumpets]

Well I got:

- an immediate e-mail from notification@embark.com saying: "Congratulations! You have successfully submitted your online application to Harvard University JFK School of Government"

- another e-mail (actually 3h later, not 24h...) from messages@notification.embark.com saying: "Thank you for responding to our offer of admission online."

So yeah, no clear mention of accepting.

OK, Thanks! I just turned down everywhere else, so I was getting nervous!

Edited April 12, 2011 by Crumpets

[brewsta23]

i am feeling a bit indecisive too. i got a full ride plus stipend from chicago and 15k from harvard. thinking that it makes the most sense to go to chicago given their reputation is also very strong, but now beginning to have second thoughts. 3 more days :-(

[publicpolicyposter]

To all who didn’t get fellowships and scholarships for the HKSMPP. I think you should consider the following points:

If you really want to work in the public or nonprofit sectorsafter graduation look at the income stats from HKS’s latest employment report(pages 3 and 7):

http://www.hks.harvard.edu/var/ezp_site/storage/fckeditor/file/pdfs/degree-programs/oca/Classof2009EmploymentOverview.pdf

Sector Annual Median Salary Percent of employed

Public/National $56,000 37.4%

Public/State $48,000** 6.1%

Public/Local $73,500 6.1%

Public/Intl Gvt. Orgs. $79,000** 4.6%

Nonprofit/NGO $62,000 20.6%

Stats includedual degree graduates

**Five reports or fewer

Remember these stats are the medians, so exactly half of Harvard’sMPP students got less money than what is portrayed (I wish they would providequintiles!). On top of that, these stats take into consideration those studentswith dual degrees, such as MBAs from Stanford GSB, JDs from Yale SL, and MDsfrom HMS. If you are not getting a dual degree, can you really compare yourselfwith this pool?

[publicpolicyposter]

Now consider the debt. Tuition and living expenses for theMPP program come up to $69,323 a year (http://www.hks.harvard.edu/degrees/sfs/prospective-students/tuition/domestic)or $138,646 for both years. You can borrow $41K from government Stafford loans (6.8%fixed interest + 1% origination fee) and the rest, $97,646 from government DirectGrad PLUS Loan (7.9% fixed + 4.0% origination fee). To make it short, you’ll bepaying around $1,700 a month or $20,500 a year in a 10 yr payment plan or$1,060 a month or $12,700 a year in a 25 plan. These are huge monthly payments.Total interest paid over lifetime of the loans will be $65K in the 10 yr planor $180K in the 25 yr plan, big chunks of money in interest alone as well.

Is it realistic for someone with so much debt to really havethe financial freedom to work in the public or NGO sector? The majority ofgraduates (58%) go into Public-National and NGO work. Let’s say you are in theluckier half of that majority and you are making between 56K and 62K (you mightwish to get into the IMF or WB, but less than 5% of HKS MPP grads get into eventhe broad category of “international government orgs”, so don’t bet on it!). Ifyou had to pay 20K a year in student loans, you would really be making onlybetween 36K and 42K a year. I have friend who works at quiznos and makes thatmuch. How could someone ever support a family like that?

[publicpolicyposter]

Now, that’s even if you get employment. HKS’s “settled” rateby June after graduation has been around 60% (88% by October) for several years—whichis very low especially considering what settled means. “Settled” includessecond- and third-choice employment, part-time employment, giving up lookingfor employment, going back to school, returning to your previous employer (withyour tail between your legs), and then actually getting the employment youwould expect after incurring almost 140,000 in debt and giving your life away inservitude. And 40% are not even “settled”!!?? Ouch! Source: http://harvardcitizen.com/2010/09/16/kennedy-school-graduate-employment-rates-remain-steady-during-recession/

[publicpolicyposter]

In my opinion, the MPP is just an “analyst” degree. Not a “leader”degree. I haven’t heard of anyone achieving anything with that degree. All thefamous HKS grads that I’ve heard of got other degrees, especially MC/MPAs—whichonly accepts already successful and accomplished individuals. MPPs are probablytoo burdened with debt to be able to accomplish much in the public sector.

In addition, the public sector and NGOs love hiring MBAsbecause they feel they can better relate and understand large donors, corporateinterests and culture, small-business constituents, etc. You could probablyapply to a top 15 MBA program, get a bunch of financial aid, make over 100K ayear, and go in and out of the private sector when needed, and look like champin the eyes of nonprofits and as a philanthropists in the eyes of the businessworld. Just saying…

[abogs78]

So are you saying people should not bother applying for MPP degrees and just go to business school? Or just look to obtain a dual degree program? I am just curious and if you don't mind me asking, have you earned an MPP degree hence the reason you think is not worth it or are you a matriculating student in the MPP program at Harvard and you are now having a second thought on going ahead with the MPP degree? I know so many questions right...and if you don't mind answering this question as well, do you think an MPA degree is much better than a MPP, since an MPA emphasizes more managerial and technical skills compared to an MPP, at least according to some websites I looked at...thanks!

In my opinion, the MPP is just an “analyst” degree. Not a “leader”degree. I haven’t heard of anyone achieving anything with that degree. All thefamous HKS grads that I’ve heard of got other degrees, especially MC/MPAs—whichonly accepts already successful and accomplished individuals. MPPs are probablytoo burdened with debt to be able to accomplish much in the public sector.

In addition, the public sector and NGOs love hiring MBAsbecause they feel they can better relate and understand large donors, corporateinterests and culture, small-business constituents, etc. You could probablyapply to a top 15 MBA program, get a bunch of financial aid, make over 100K ayear, and go in and out of the private sector when needed, and look like champin the eyes of nonprofits and as a philanthropists in the eyes of the businessworld. Just saying…

[abogs78]

I heard that the MPA degree increasingly includes a substantial element of management education sitting alongside public policy and public administration thereby bringing it closer to the MBA degree.

I am not sure how true this is, just a thought I guess. Good luck to everyone with your choices!

In my opinion, the MPP is just an “analyst” degree. Not a “leader”degree. I haven’t heard of anyone achieving anything with that degree. All thefamous HKS grads that I’ve heard of got other degrees, especially MC/MPAs—whichonly accepts already successful and accomplished individuals. MPPs are probablytoo burdened with debt to be able to accomplish much in the public sector.

In addition, the public sector and NGOs love hiring MBAsbecause they feel they can better relate and understand large donors, corporateinterests and culture, small-business constituents, etc. You could probablyapply to a top 15 MBA program, get a bunch of financial aid, make over 100K ayear, and go in and out of the private sector when needed, and look like champin the eyes of nonprofits and as a philanthropists in the eyes of the businessworld. Just saying…

[publicpolicyposter]

I think the problem with the MPP programs is its very core. I’m nottrying to exaggerate. From an outsider's perspective, HKS has 4 master’sprograms that cover roughly the same skills. I don’t think employers are veryconcerned with the subtleties in the differences of curriculum between the MPP,the MPA, or the MC/MPA for example. However, everyone knows very well that thebig difference between the programs is the qualifications to get in; MPPs arethe least qualified of the 4 HKS masters, and everyone knows it. So, while yougo to Harvard to buy this amazing brand power for $140K in debt, you are alsobuying a stamp that says “least qualified at HKS”, or “less than”. At the sametime you are spending all this money for the Harvard brand you are shootingyourself on the foot and taking away the luster of it in comparison to everyoneelse at the university.

When you graduate from the HKS MPP, not only are youcompeting for jobs with all your classmates but also with the graduates of allthe other programs (at least for the jobs you really want); and, each one ofthe graduates of the other programs carries an invisible sign that says “Harvardthinks I’m better than the MPPs”. So, when you are negotiating a job as an MPP (ifyou are lucky to be in that position) you are completely pushed down in yoursalary potential by what the other “more qualified” programs are getting insalary. If you try to go higher than your salary range, the potential employerwill likely think, “well, for that money I can get someone with an MPA, MPA-ID, or dualdegree”, so your earning potential is depressed because your degree is not seenas a terminal degree for your field—even though you are paying the same or morethan most terminal degree students are paying in any school at Harvard or othertop universities.

I just wouldn’t want to be in the salary negotiation seat asan MPP with all that competition from the other HKS programs. And that is represented in their salary stats.

What i think HKS should do is simply combine the MPP and MPA. It isnot right that someone will pay so much money for a degree that will alwaysmean “less qualified than MPA”. Most MPP grads, given their enormous debt, won’t beable to get a second master of similar cost. Compare with all the otherprofessional schools at Harvard, where you pay similar amounts, but you get adegree that is considered terminal, meaning that you have the highest expecteddegree in your area of expertise.

HKS should just do away with the MPP and combine it with theMPA, or at least make it equal in standing, for the sake of all the MPP students. At his point, the MPP looks morelike a dead end masters than a terminal masters. Just look at their “settled”stats again: http://harvardcitizen.com/2010/09/16/kennedy-school-graduate-employment-rates-remain-steady-during-recession/

I think the MPP could definitely work as a dual degree, but not alone. If I were to do an HKS masters alone, I'd try for the MPA or the MPA-ID. This just my opinion from reading a lot and talking to people a lot of people.

I heard that the MPA degree increasingly includes a substantial element of management education sitting alongside public policy and public administration thereby bringing it closer to the MBA degree.

I am not sure how true this is, just a thought I guess. Good luck to everyone with your choices!

[JAubrey]

I think the problem with the MPP programs is its very core. I’m nottrying to exaggerate. From an outsider's perspective, HKS has 4 master’sprograms that cover roughly the same skills. I don’t think employers are veryconcerned with the subtleties in the differences of curriculum between the MPP,the MPA, or the MC/MPA for example. However, everyone knows very well that thebig difference between the programs is the qualifications to get in; MPPs arethe least qualified of the 4 HKS masters, and everyone knows it. So, while yougo to Harvard to buy this amazing brand power for $140K in debt, you are alsobuying a stamp that says “least qualified at HKS”, or “less than”. At the sametime you are spending all this money for the Harvard brand you are shootingyourself on the foot and taking away the luster of it in comparison to everyoneelse at the university.

When you graduate from the HKS MPP, not only are youcompeting for jobs with all your classmates but also with the graduates of allthe other programs (at least for the jobs you really want); and, each one ofthe graduates of the other programs carries an invisible sign that says “Harvardthinks I’m better than the MPPs”. So, when you are negotiating a job as an MPP (ifyou are lucky to be in that position) you are completely pushed down in yoursalary potential by what the other “more qualified” programs are getting insalary. If you try to go higher than your salary range, the potential employerwill likely think, “well, for that money I can get someone with an MPA, MPA-ID, or dualdegree”, so your earning potential is depressed because your degree is not seenas a terminal degree for your field—even though you are paying the same or morethan most terminal degree students are paying in any school at Harvard or othertop universities.

I just wouldn’t want to be in the salary negotiation seat asan MPP with all that competition from the other HKS programs. And that is represented in their salary stats.

What i think HKS should do is simply combine the MPP and MPA. It isnot right that someone will pay so much money for a degree that will alwaysmean “less qualified than MPA”. Most MPP grads, given their enormous debt, won’t beable to get a second master of similar cost. Compare with all the otherprofessional schools at Harvard, where you pay similar amounts, but you get adegree that is considered terminal, meaning that you have the highest expecteddegree in your area of expertise.

HKS should just do away with the MPP and combine it with theMPA, or at least make it equal in standing, for the sake of all the MPP students. At his point, the MPP looks morelike a dead end masters than a terminal masters. Just look at their “settled”stats again: http://harvardcitize...ring-recession/

I think the MPP could definitely work as a dual degree, but not alone. If I were to do an HKS masters alone, I'd try for the MPA or the MPA-ID. This just my opinion from reading a lot and talking to people a lot of people.

Wow. Just wow. This is the worst reasoned nonsense I have had the displeasure of reading. The MPP at Harvard is a fantastic degree, for more recent graduates and having met quite a few of them, they are exceptionally bright and thus far are doing well for themselves. As for MPA graduates looking down on them? Utter nonsense and shows you have positively no idea what you are talking about. Go back to your hole.

[publicpolicyposter]

JAubrey,

I’m glad to hear that you know anecdotes of people doingwell. At no point did I say people in the HKS MPP are not bright or that the educationisn’t fantastic. But it is just reckless to ignore the stats that HKS puts outitself. These are not my numbers. Look at the settled rate (http://harvardcitizen.com/2010/09/16/kennedy-school-graduate-employment-rates-remain-steady-during-recession/)and the employment report (http://www.hks.harvard.edu/var/ezp_site/storage/fckeditor/file/pdfs/degree-programs/oca/Classof2009EmploymentOverview.pdf).They are terrible. I don’t know of any other degree program at HKS, Harvard, orany other university that requires you to incur so much debt (because of thelack of Financial Aid and the high costs of tuition) and then gives you solittle earning potential. The return on investment is by far the worst I’veseen. MPAs and MPA-IDs incur the same debt but have higher earning potentials.That’s a fact; which means employers generally consider MPPs less valuable totheir organizations. Denying that is nonsense. If you get an MPP from HKS you should probably plan ongetting another master’s degree as well. Shouldn’t potential students be awarethat they are getting the master degree with the least earning potential fromany of the 4 major professional schools at Harvard? And know that they are gettingsometimes even more debt than other programs (because of the lack of financialaid at HKS)? MPPs have low earning potential, high debt, and carry a sign thatsays “less than MPA”. Who cares if MPAs look down on you or not? I never saidthat. What I said is that you accumulate the same debt and get paid less. Anyone can get thehint of what it means to get paid less. No one needs to go to Harvard to serve.

And in regards to brand power, HKS already doesnt carry the same "wow" factor as the other professional schools at Harvard, such as HBS, HLS, and HMS (ask anyone who went to the other professional schools), and on top of that, the MPP has the least "wow" factor from all the HKS programs. People should have the opportunity to know that and weigh that in their balances when choosing what school to go to and how much debt is it really worth.

Wow. Just wow. This is the worst reasoned nonsense I have had the displeasure of reading. The MPP at Harvard is a fantastic degree, for more recent graduates and having met quite a few of them, they are exceptionally bright and thus far are doing well for themselves. As for MPA graduates looking down on them? Utter nonsense and shows you have positively no idea what you are talking about. Go back to your hole.

[mmac06]

JAubrey,

I’m glad to hear that you know anecdotes of people doingwell. At no point did I say people in the HKS MPP are not bright or that the educationisn’t fantastic. But it is just reckless to ignore the stats that HKS puts outitself. These are not my numbers. Look at the settled rate(http://harvardcitize...ring-recession/) and the employment report(http://www.hks.harva...entOverview.pdf).They are terrible. I don’t know of any other degree program at HKS, Harvard, orany other university that requires you to incur so much debt (because of thelack of Financial Aid and the high costs of tuition) and then gives you solittle earning potential. The return on investment is by far the worst I’veseen. MPAs and MPA-IDs incur the same debt but have higher earning potentials.That’s a fact; which means employers generally consider MPPs less valuable totheir organizations. Denying that is nonsense. If you get an MPP from HKS you should probably plan ongetting another master’s degree as well. Shouldn’t potential students be awarethat they are getting the master degree with the least earning potential fromany of the 4 major professional schools at Harvard?...

Interesting reflections. As an admitted MPP student at HKS who will likely do non-profit or gov't work after graduation, I too am concerned with the debt I will be taking on. I am somewhat comforted by generous repayment plans. First, the government Income Based Repayment Plan (IBR) and the Federal Public Loan Forgiveness (PSLF), which you can read about at www.ibrinfo.org and http://studentaid.ed.gov/PORTALSWebApp/students/english/PSF.jsp. The programs allow you to repay federal loans based on a sliding scale and also offer a loan forgiveness program for doing "public service work," which includes working for any government organziation (local, state, national) or non-profit (a registered 501©(3) or a private organization that offers the following services: Emergency management, Military service, Public safety, Law enforcement, Public interest law services, Early childhood education, Public service for individuals with disabilities and the elderly, Public health, Public education, Public library services, and School library or other school-based services; source PSLF Q&A, #24). Using the IBR calculator, I entered the following info: married (no), debt ($140,000 USD), income ($56,000), interest rate (6.8%). A qualifying person with these stats would only pay $500 a month (not $1,060 as you indicated). For someone making $47,000, payments would be $380 / month and so on. In addition, after 120 on-time monthly payments (10 years), any remaining balance would be forgiven under PSLF--including any outstanding interest. Harvard also has HKS Loan Repayment Assistance Program (LRAP), which reimburses graduates in the "public interest sector" (described above) for loan payments on a sliding scale for anyone making under $60,000 for five years. For a single person making $32,000 and below, Harvard reimburses your loan payments 100%. For those making $48,000-$60,000, Harvard reimburses you 25% of your payments. For the above example, a person making $500 / month payments would be reimbursed $125 / month for five years. Is it AMAZING? No. Is it a nice perk, and will it help? Definitely.

I would be interested to hear your thoughts on this.

Edited April 14, 2011 by mmac06

[publicpolicyposter]

Mmac06,

That’s great you’ve done so much research on it. Just a fewthoughts:

-make sure you use the weighted average of the interest rates between the Stafford and GradPlus loans. It comes up to 7.58%

-also, make sure to add initiation fees for the loans. Totaldebt comes up to 142,900

-in regards to loan forgiveness, like you said, you have alot of constraints in your career for ten years. How about if you find an opportunityto progress your career working for an NGO abroad? Or a foreign government? Or youwant to try the private sector (social ventures, impact investing, and all theother really cool things going on in socially-focused private sector right now)for a little while?

-I don’t know much about IBR, but it looks like you know itpretty well. I should check it out. I think, however, that you still accumulateinterest while in this program. So if you ever stop qualifying, then yourpayments will jump up to make up for the subsidized payments you already made. Isn’tthat correct? Again, this could limit your career options quite a bit.

-For LRAP, from what you said, if you make over 60k, youwouldn’t qualify, and that’s below the median NGO job salary for an MPP. In addition, thisprogram is not exclusively for MPPs, MPAs could qualify too, which leads to thenext point.

-the MPP is not a “terminal” masters, meaning the highermaster in a given field. HKS itself even makes it (or a similar master) a pre-reqfor the MPA2 program. This immediately puts you in a disadvantage whencompeting for jobs out of HKS compared to the MPA2 and MPA-ID grads, so they’lllikely get the higher paid and more exciting jobs. I don’t know that puttingyourself under the burden of so much debt and the restrictions of so many loanprograms, to make the kind of money MPPs makes, is really worth it. Could youget an MPP with financial aid at a different school, and then come to HKS foran MPA and spend the big bucks on the “bigger” degree? At the end of the day,we all have to ask ourselves if the program we chose provides us theempowerment to live our life to the fullest and truly pursue our goals, dreamsand passions of public service, or if the degree comes with too many stringsattached, and we end up a captive in rigid career options with the fear ofhaving to pay too much interest and principal for many years to come.

As you can imagine, the freedom to exploreopportunities throughout my career means a lot to me, that’s why I’ll get mydegrees. A degree that takes away a significant part of that freedom to exploremakes me cringe a bit. Is the Harvard MPP brand worth such a significant costin terms of a person’s career freedom and career innovation? I don’t think sofor me. Just my quick thoughts on it.

Interesting reflections. As an admitted MPP student at HKS who will likely do non-profit or gov't work after graduation, I too am concerned with the debt I will be taking on. I am somewhat comforted by generous repayment plans. First, the government Income Based Repayment Plan (IBR) and the Federal Public Loan Forgiveness (PSLF), which you can read about at www.ibrinfo.org and http://studentaid.ed.gov/PORTALSWebApp/students/english/PSF.jsp. The programs allow you to repay federal loans based on a sliding scale and also offer a loan forgiveness program for doing "public service work," which includes working for any government organziation (local, state, national) or non-profit (a registered 501©(3) or a private organization that offers the following services: Emergency management, Military service, Public safety, Law enforcement, Public interest law services, Early childhood education, Public service for individuals with disabilities and the elderly, Public health, Public education, Public library services, and School library or other school-based services; source PSLF Q&A, #24). Using the IBR calculator, I entered the following info: married (no), debt ($140,000 USD), income ($56,000), interest rate (6.8%). A qualifying person with these stats would only pay $500 a month (not $1,060 as you indicated). For someone making $47,000, payments would be $380 / month and so on. In addition, after 120 on-time monthly payments (10 years), any remaining balance would be forgiven under PSLF--including any outstanding interest. Harvard also has HKS Loan Repayment Assistance Program (LRAP), which reimburses graduates in the "public interest sector" (described above) for loan payments on a sliding scale for anyone making under $60,000 for five years. For a single person making $32,000 and below, Harvard reimburses your loan payments 100%. For those making $48,000-$60,000, Harvard reimburses you 25% of your payments. For the above example, a person making $500 / month payments would be reimbursed $125 / month for five years. Is it AMAZING? No. Is it a nice perk, and will it help? Definitely.

I would be interested to hear your thoughts on this.

[oogabooga]

Policyposter,

I think you are right to express a lot of concerns about the value of paying so much for an MPP, Harvard be damned. It's a decision I'm currently struggling with. However, the Public Service Loan Forgiveness and IBR are the only things that make the thought palatable. I'd encourage you to read up more on these programs. Read all the links that mmac helpfully posted.

My best understanding, after reading up on the programs and talking to a friend who is currently relying on PSLF+IBR to pay off his law school debts, is that:

- Interest seems to not really matter. You make the income-based repayment, which should always cover the interest payment at the very least, and is likely paying off some principal. Once you've made your 120 payments your principal and interest balance is forgiven.

- Limiting your career options is certainly a concern. However, the key is that you make 120 qualifying payments, but they don't have to be consecutive. You can still jump into the private sector for a couple years and come back. This extends the amount of time you're paying off your loans but theoretically the increase in income is worth it. You could possibly find yourself in a situation where you'd like to leave your well-paying government job for a similarly paid consulting job, but your financial incentives wouldn't allow you, even if that private job provides services to governments.

- You can't ever "stop qualifying" for IBR, as far as I understand it. Your payment just eventually reaches normal levels at higher incomes, at which point it doesn't matter.

[Correct me if I'm wrong on any of these, guys!]

I think your concerns about the Harvard MPP vs MPA vs MC/MPA are largely unfounded, though. The differences are mostly related to whether you're 22-27 years old, 30-35 years old, or older, and of course your previous studies and career experience. MPP is most certainly a terminal policy degree. You'd be really strange to get a HKS MPA degree if you already held an MPP... the MPA is basically the same experience, minus the core curriculum. Maybe you would get an MPP from a different school and one day get an MC/MPA to hone your executive skills, but I think even this would be strange.

In sum: financial concerns, completely valid, but make sure you study IBR and PSLF to decide if it's worth it. Worries about which HKS degree you get, well.. if you want to go to grad school now, get the HKS degree that's appropriate for your stage in life and don't look back.