Fall 2014 applicants??

[Strong Flat White]

If you apply to 15 schools that you believe to be "good fits," and are subsequently rejected across the board, that might indicate either that there is *some* sort of weakness in your application you are not seeing  (NOT that you are a bad candidate, unworthy of a spot, etc. etc-- just so we're clear about what I am and am not saying), OR that you are interpreting/defining fit incorrectly and/or are failing to articulate it persuasively. Unless you address those issues, doubling the number of apps isn't going to solve the problem.

 

Of course, there's the other (likely) option: you were a strong applicant and a good fit, but 300 people applied for 10 spaces, and someone else's writing sample was a bit more interesting/someone else's undergrad advisor has connections/someone else mentioned a member of the adcomm's favorite theorist in their SoP.

 

Fit is important, but there's no way to get around the numbers. There is a certain degree of arbitrariness to this process that we all want desperately to eradicate, but can't.

 

Hang in there guys. I remember how much February sucked, but it's so early yet.

I feel like this is correcting me with my own argument = sure you can find a good fit and that may or may not translate to acceptance. Funny how people react to that differently. I would simply try to increase my odds, and have yet to see a reason based on fit (separate from finances) why that's a bad idea, or even just a neutral idea.  How is it not a good idea - again, if the discussion is fit and not finances or other things?

[gwarner13]

I feel like this is correcting me with my own argument = sure you can find a good fit and that may or may not translate to acceptance. Funny how people react to that differently. I would simply try to increase my odds, and have yet to see a reason based on fit (separate from finances) why that's a bad idea, or even just a neutral idea.  How is it not a good idea - again, if the discussion is fit and not finances or other things?

I'm suggesting that, perhaps, your conception (and, I'll repeat, articulation) of "fit" might be flawed in some way. I'd argue that being rejected from 14-15 schools (if we're operating off of the same hypothetical), all of which you believed were a good fit, would suggest that to be a real possibility. If that's the case, doubling your schools is simply doubling the problem, throwing good money after bad & etc.

[mikers86]

I appreciate it, but it sounds as if the issue becomes less about fit, then? And more about what's financially feasible in a single application cycle? I guess I am just not the regular sort of applicant, but my ability to pay for application fees has nothing to do with fitting into a department, or thinking or wishiing or hoping or applying to fit into a department.

I'm not directly equating fit to finance. But if you have limited means, then you have to make the ones you select count, forcing you to evaluate your reasoning for choosing them and eliminating others along the way. And for me, those 14 were what I determined to be the best fits. I'm sure I could "fit" into several more, but could I see myself accepting them in the end? If you can ideally see yourself at any of those 20 or 28 institutions and can afford it, then apply. I'm not saying there is a magic number, just that if others are feeling discouraged, doubling up on apps next year may not be the best solution.

[andrewcycs]

It's nearing the end of the week! And still no word from Vandy or NYU. Of course assuming rejection from Vandy. Who else is waiting on NYU??? If I get rejected there too I'll probably give up all hope! Lol.

[Kamisha]

You know what’s weird about “fit?” The one school that I thought for sure would reject me because my interest areas are no where near the faculty research areas is the only school from which I’ve received any type of positive news. Even weirder: they are paying for me to fly out and interview. 

 

For the record: I am a Film and Cultural studies person and their program is religious and medieval literature.

 

Hmmm....This is messing with my brain. 

[shortstack51]

It's nearing the end of the week! And still no word from Vandy or NYU. Of course assuming rejection from Vandy. Who else is waiting on NYU??? If I get rejected there too I'll probably give up all hope! Lol.

Also waiting on NYU! We've had a lot of weather issues out here, so the adcomm probably hasn't really been meeting as much as usual. I'm guessing we'll hear soonish though

[andrewcycs]

We've had terrible weather here too!! It was only in the 60's!! I know, freezing. It's almost unbearable.

I'm dying of inferiority complex. I need some good news to make me feel better. But even if all rejections, I just wish they'd all tell me now so I can work on moving on. *sigh* I know I'm preaching to the choir, but I'm so tired of waiting.

Edited February 6, 2014 by andrewcycs

[andrewcycs]

If only we could have a bar for all this season's English applicants to sit and stew together! And drown our sorrows in drinks, and celebrate our triumphs with drinks. Either way though, drinks.

Edited February 6, 2014 by andrewcycs

[Strong Flat White]

I'm suggesting that, perhaps, your conception (and, I'll repeat, articulation) of "fit" might be flawed in some way. I'd argue that being rejected from 14-15 schools (if we're operating off of the same hypothetical), all of which you believed were a good fit, would suggest that to be a real possibility. If that's the case, doubling your schools is simply doubling the problem, throwing good money after bad & etc.

Ok, got it - fair enough. In fact, I think you're right, that my conception or articulation of fit is indeed flawed, but my original post was to figure out how it's flawed, and I'm still not entirely sure. A lot of my points were geared toward the difficulty in even determining fit, let along working with that, whereas you seem to be presupposing (unless I'm misreading it) that nailing the optimum amount of schools to apply to is based on a correct or unflawed conception/articulation of it.  Perfect.  So where am I (and evidently legions of others) flawed?  I feel as though, when I explore fit, I'm doing the conventionally-agreed upon things, yet I seem no closer to my goals. I'm not being hard-headed, here - I'm asking: what criteria, exactly?

[Strong Flat White]

I'm not directly equating fit to finance. But if you have limited means, then you have to make the ones you select count, forcing you to evaluate your reasoning for choosing them and eliminating others along the way. And for me, those 14 were what I determined to be the best fits. I'm sure I could "fit" into several more, but could I see myself accepting them in the end? If you can ideally see yourself at any of those 20 or 28 institutions and can afford it, then apply. I'm not saying there is a magic number, just that if others are feeling discouraged, doubling up on apps next year may not be the best solution.

Right. So...you still have to figure out the right "fit formula," which is what I am bitching and moaning about in the first place. How, sir? Or, ma'am?  How? Pretty please tell me how.

[despejado]

Also waiting on NYU! We've had a lot of weather issues out here, so the adcomm probably hasn't really been meeting as much as usual. I'm guessing we'll hear soonish though

 

I'm also waiting on NYU, but it's a total reach for me. It would be pleasant surprise, but I'm not expecting much there.

[Jocko]

Andrewcycs--I love the bar idea, and I don't even drink ( much). I think I'm starting now. I had a three beers last night. I have nothing against drinking, it just never did much for me but make me sleepy. I'll have a good beer every once and a while, but I haven't had three drinks since my 21st birthday ( like 10 years ago ). Pretty soon, I'll be drinking silver wolf vodka out of a Gatorade bottle and have scabies from sleeping in a cardboard box.

I seriously can't imagine going through this again next year. But I also don't want to wait tables for the rest of my life (an MA in lit. And MFA in creative writing do NOT equal great job opportunities). Why didn't I apply for more schools? I seriously thought I'd get in, at least to UMN with no problem. I have a 169V GRE and a 3.95 grad GPA. I've presented at prestigious conferences. I have over 2.5 years teaching experience at a university level. I spent my summers teaching Upward Bound. But everyone else is just as impressive ( and a lot younger).

I also made the serious mistake of applying at the last minute and I had a very late LOR-- my prof was in the hospital. Plus I'm nervous my previous grad work will be held against me. I feel like getting into grad school requires 1) good connections with the school 2) a Nobel prize

[Strong Flat White]

...but could I see myself accepting them in the end? If you can ideally see yourself at any of those 20 or 28 institutions and can afford it, then appIy...

I think I see one aspect of the notion of fit that is fundamentally different, here: some people seem to be basing it on "where one can see oneself." I guess I have been operating on something that (I thought) I was taught in a proseminar, which is that "fit" has less to do with "ideal vision" and more to do with a more visceral account of the field. Fit was equated to ministry = you don't go where you want, you go where you are called, and where you are called might indeed suck, according to certain criteria that human beings consider important even if they are not squarely academic or intellectual criteria. I "can see myself" in a number of lovely locales and/or shitty locales for a wide variety of reasons.  But...what are the reasons or the combination of reasons that people are using? Palm trees sounds nice, but that won't cut it, so what will?  Placement records are completely ridiculous to go by, because what is good for you is good for me and what's bad for you is bad for me (to quote The Refreshments). Mutual interest has proven a doozy. These are the things that get talked about, and what I'm saying is, well, great, how does that really work out for you? Are you making the determination, or is the department doing unpredictable things?  And, if so, then don't you want your application to land somewhere where something unpredictable and glorious can happen?  And isn't that more likely to be the case if you are less limited by number of schools to apply to?  I agree that it can add up; for immediate purposes I am leaving finances out of it, though it is a FANTASTIC point that limited means can make you shrewd in determining fit.  Sah-WEEET.  So, in your admirable shrewdness, how are you doing it?  Where "do you ideally see yourself," and how do you make that determination anyway? Because I gotta level with you - if it's just a matter of "being able to ideally see myself" in a certain place, well, I am open, my friends. Do you know how many schools are out there? THOUSANDS! And each and every one is a potential fit for a potential applicant, and all the normal ways of figuring this out seem strangely elusive and problematic to me. And that is what I am curious about.

[Jocko]

And I might have some form of dislexia. I always have at least one error. No matter how carefully I read things over.

[SleepyOldMan]

Fit is relevant only from the school's point of view, not the applicant's. The question is how the committee members view you and how you fit within their collective vision of what they want their group of graduate atudents to look like.

It should go without saying that we, as applicants, have little or no sense as to what each committee may be looking for. We just don't have any reliable information about that. They are departments full of human beings who have complex interrelationships with one another, personal, social, political, historical and much more. All of that, none of which we are privy to, goes into the process whereby admissions decisions are made.

Part of the process is no doubt rational, but much of it would doubtless strike an observer as quite irrational. It's more like a black box that spits out decisions, but whose interior working are mysterious.

Accordingly, it matters zero how well any one of us may think we fit into a particular program. It could hardly be less relevant. The best you can so is present yourself in the best light possible, so the committee will get a clear sense of who you are. Then let them do their job.

What I think is important is to avoid saying anything in your application that could serve to easily weed you out. Remember that the committee members are all exceptionally well-trained, critical and perceptive readers. They will immediately pick up on and hone in on anything in your application that seems odd, weird or, worst, potentially unprofessional. They are looking for people who will in some form or another go on to represent the department, so ideally they would prefer to view successful applicants as potential colleagues. IMO the very best thing you can do is show your SOP to the one or two people you know who have the best judgment about practical matters. Ie, the very shrewdest people you know. Ask them how your writing reads, and what suggestions they might have. They will be able to spot, objectively, any flaws in your approach and suggest ways to fix them.

[Kamisha]

Any other UC-Riverside applicants out there? I hear they should make decision by mid-Feb. 

Edited February 6, 2014 by Kamisha

[despejado]

Looks like we have a bitter soul on the results page.

Why do some graduate students think it is their duty to try to “warn” all of us that we aren’t going to get jobs. We KNOW that. We GET it.

If you want to boss potential faculty around, go into administration.

Kamisha, are you talking about the link that was up? It appears to have been taken down..

[Kamisha]

Kamisha, are you talking about the link that was up? It appears to have been taken down..

 

Yeah, I was talking about the link. I saw that it was taken down, so I changed my post. Haha. But seriously, it drives me crazy. 

[despejado]

Yeah, I was talking about the link. I saw that it was taken down, so I changed my post. Haha. But seriously, it drives me crazy.

It drives me just as crazy, believe me. I was warned of job prospects long before I applied. I know what I'm getting myself into haha

[Horb]

I've been checking UVA's application site like crazy and my status hasn't changed...gah!

[despejado]

I've been checking UVA's application site like crazy and my status hasn't changed...gah!

I'm sure it'll be before the weekend hopefully, anyway, so you don't have to worry anymore.

[Horb]

I've decided that all of us on hear who applied to UVA, NYU, and/or UChicago will find out we all got in tomorrow. Roughly around 2pm. Because that is what would make me happiest. 

[despejado]

I've decided that all of us on hear who applied to UVA, NYU, and/or UChicago will find out we all got in tomorrow. Roughly around 2pm. Because that is what would make me happiest.

You should just keep posting things like this. I like things like this.

[Horb]

When people say "good LOR" on the form, what do they mean? I thought we weren't allowed to look at our LOR, unless they mean written by well-known faculty, but even then, how would they know? Or do they assume? Just curious. I've always wanted to know what my profs wrote about me but I'll never know. *frowns*

[Megeen]

When people say "good LOR" on the form, what do they mean? I thought we weren't allowed to look at our LOR, unless they mean written by well-known faculty, but even then, how would they know? Or do they assume? Just curious. I've always wanted to know what my profs wrote about me but I'll never know. *frowns*

 

I'd actually be interested how this actually works in the US. We don't really use LOR here in Germany and when I asked professors for my study abroad in the US 3 years ago, some of them said, write it yourself and I'll sign it. Do professors also do that in the US? It might sound like that gives me an edge, but to be honest, I didn't know what to write in there. It just felt weird.