OH man! B's B's B's

[Francophile1]

Hello all,

It's me again!

I've posted just couple of days ago regarding grades but that was before I found out of another B!

 

Very stressed out right now! 1st year of MA got 3 B's so far. How bad is this for me if I want to apply into PhD programs.

And is there a difference if I will be applying to different PhD program (not exactly same field). I am in literature.

Do schools usually consider the fact that some institutions don't have A- for example and therefore grad students can only get (A, B+ or B ), or do they not care about this at all??

 

Do I even have a chance to apply to any top 20 lit programs with 3 B's?

Again it wouldn't be in exactly same field but still lit related

 

thanks all!

Edited May 17, 2014 by fuzzylogician
smily fixed

[Guest criminologist]

a B in grad school is equivalent to getting a D in college

[harrisonfjord]

a B in grad school is equivalent to getting a D in college

 

This is not always true. I would contact your advisor/program coordinator and get their advice. 

[Francophile1]

criminologist...well I wasn't told it was a D but I was told it was not good. Then again as I said we do not have - grades so that makes it a bit different than those schools with +, - grades

[Guest criminologist]

My MA program did not use letter grades only numeric system e.g. 4.0 (A), 3.5 (B+), 3.0 (B )  etc... in most programs the requirement to graduate is at least 3.0 thats why i am saying a B is like a D.

[harrisonfjord]

Where I go to school a D in undergrad is not passing. A 2.0 GPA is. Therefore, by comparison if a 3.0 is required to pass it would be more like a C......not a D. I wouldn't freak out until you speak with someone who has experience in admissions and knows about the programs you are applying to. It is possible to get into a Ph.D. program with a few B's on your transcript. There may be some hoops you have to jump through but I wouldn't write it off.

[Francophile1]

yeah..i think you're right about the C thing. Humanities departments basically rarely give C's. so B=C makes sense.

I am tried to inquire as to what exactly I should have done better, since I am not really sure. Some of the professors in my program are very forthcoming while others just say it's not good and that's it.

[TakeruK]

Usually the official transcript will have a description of the grading system so the schools that receive your application will know that a A- is not possible. 

 

As to whether or not Bs are bad, this varies a lot from program to program! 

[GradHooting]

I am not sure how such grades are interpreted in literature, but I've found that in many engineering schools, maintaining a 3.5 (B+/A-) maintains scholarship funding.  A 3.0 maintains other types of funding.  My school is not known for grade inflation.  Some graduate professors even hand out C's and D's

[rvict]

Do schools usually consider the fact that some institutions don't have A- for example and therefore grad students can only get (A, B+ or B ), or do they not care about this at all??

 

thanks all!

 

Look up a grade conversion chart for your school and schools you are interested in for yuor PhD. It *should* allow you to figure out how your school's scale relates to other schools' scales. Some schools do A+/A/A-/B+/B/B- etc., while some omit the minus grades, some omit the A+, some omit plus and minus, etc. Some use a 4.33, some don't even come close to a 4.0 scale, etc. I wouldn't rely on "general" conversion charts--e.g., I'm looking at one that gives a 90% A as 3.5... Not many schools actually publish percentages. Also look at the schools' documentation on graduate student performance; most schools I looked at specifically mentioned minimum grade requirements and went into some detail about how poor grades are dealt with (review etc.).

 

Most of the variation is in the +/- grades and whether A is the top grade or not. B is usually a 3, however, and the general rule is that a B is borderline. If you're getting Bs in core courses (say, literature, or the field you're wanting to pursue), it's not a good sign, even if there are things that are as important/more important than grades (say, research experience). I, personally, would wonder whether somebody who's not performing well in a broad range of courses could produce quality, impactful research. On the other hand, I seriously question whether a prof (or, more likely, a TA) can actually tell the difference between B+ and B work, or even marginal A and high B work, without over-reliance on quantitative metrics, so whether grades actually reflect performance is another matter;)

[lyonessrampant]

I'm also in literature, and that many B's is not good.  Generally in the humanities, particularly in literature from my experience, a B is a sign of very problematic work.  Did you go to all the classes, turn in all the work, etc.?  If so, and if the grade is solely based on a seminar paper, you should be concerned, particularly if your goal is a top 20 program.  Are you a non-native speaker?  If so, there may be some more wiggle room, but the most important thing to do is figure out why you're getting B's on your writing.  If you're getting B's on seminar papers, an admissions committee will wonder if you can produce original research that contributes to the field.  A B seminar paper isn't getting published without a ton of changes, perhaps a complete do-over.  While you're not expected to be able to produce publishable-quality writing during an MA (though it certainly is possible), an ad comm is going to want to see potential to reach that level during a Ph.D. program.  The expectation for lit now is that you go on the job market with a couple publications in hand, which means starting the publishing process years before going on the market since it takes so long to submit, hear back, revise if you get a revise and resubmit, or go somewhere else if you get rejected.  Anyway, it's really important that you speak to your professors and ask them what exactly you are doing wrong and what you can do to change your methodology, research techniques, arguments, etc.  If you show substantial improvement from your first year to your second, you can make a case in your personal statement (a brief one) that you have shown significant improvement and learned the field during your MA, which shows motivation and adaptability etc.) and minimize the impact of B's in the first year of your MA on your chances as a Ph.D. applicant.

[whtchocla7e]

If grade B in a grad course if bad then what is a grade less than A in any undergrad course? Catastrophic, I bet.

 

Do undergraduates freak out their B's? I can't even imagine.

Edited May 21, 2014 by whtchocla7e

[fuzzylogician]

Do undergraduates freak out their B's? I can't even imagine.

 

Oh, yes, they do. Some even freak out about their A's and will fight you for an A+. Even though they didn't earn it, and moreover the official transcript doesn't reflect the + but instead just gives the letter grades alone. People can be very high strung.

[Guest Gnome Chomsky]

Oh, yes, they do. Some even freak out about their A's and will fight you for an A+. Even though they didn't earn it, and moreover the official transcript doesn't reflect the + but instead just gives the letter grades alone. People can be very high strung.

Those lucky bastards could get an A+? 

[hashslinger]

You need to talk to your professors and your DGS as soon as possible. One B sounds like bad luck; two B's sound like a problem; three could mean that they're trying to get rid of you. But only you can figure this out for sure.

 

The general understanding is that a B is not a good grade if you're in graduate English coursework, but this can vary from professor to professor. I had a professor one time who relished giving "honest" grades, but she was very much the exception.

 

Since you're only in your first year, you might be able to turn this around. But you absolutely must talk to the people in charge to find out what you need to do.

 

Getting into a top 20 program is tough for people in the most generous circumstances. I would recommend focusing your grad school efforts on schools outside the top 20.

[Francophile1]

Thank you all!

 

Just to mention a few things. First of all I am in foreign languages so most of the writing is done in another language. Secondly, I have found that we do not get direct indications as to how exactly to construct the research paper, maybe due to the fact that our classes are combined with PhD students (who obviously know much more about this). And we do not have many graded assignments during the semester so basically the seminar paper is our grade. Again I don't know how differently this will be looked at if I apply to an english PhD, send in a strong writing sample, but obviously will have some B's in my foreign language MA. I am probably going to start to ask professors if I can send in a draft before submitting a final paper.

[Queen of Kale]

Speak with the head of your department as there is a huge range of what is considered normal from department to department.  I am the only one in my cohort who hasn't received a C yet and when I received a B- for a course my committee didn't blink an eye.  The norm is set by your peer group to a large extent although if you are applying else where for a PhD it will be paramount to have letter writers explain your grades in relationship to your cohorts favorably.

 

Just my opinion.

[Francophile1]

queen of Kale-what field are you in?

[BeatrizBear]

I got a B in one course and a B- in another but As in all other courses at my MA program. The low grades were in Latin and Ancient Greek. They're particularly difficult classes at my university because so many people have been taking Latin and/or Greek since middle school. Many of them win scholarships for their language skills. So it's not particularly a big deal for me.

[maelia8]

In my field, getting more than one B per semester is considered pretty bad, even if it's a B+, partly because our first two years are entirely based on coursework and our skills aren't measured in any other ways. I think that once we get into the upper years after qualifying oral exams, the grades won't matter so much any more.

[dr. t]

Where I am, a professor giving anything less than an A- to a graduate student is a polite way of saying that he or she doesn't think that student should be in grad school.

[danieleWrites]

Though this is obviously too late for Francophile's original post. Still.

 

I'm in literature. Look at the admissions requirements for the universities you're interested in. About three years ago, the baseline was looking like a 3.5 for an MA looking to get into a PhD. Some programs had no minimum GPA listed. Some had a super high GPA listed. I was surprised that some big names had a lower GPA. A high GPA is always a good idea because the lower GPA numbers can keep you out of programs of interest. However,  it's not insurmountable. While I totally get the whole GPA for grad school ambitions thing, it can turn counterproductive. It's easy to get so into requirements for other programs and lose focus on the requirements for the current program. Yeah, a straight B average puts you at the downward slope of the bell curve for grad school.

 

Start up a group with the grads in your classes, even the PhD students, if possible. Offer to trade papers for peer review and do your best to peer review confidently. If your professors aren't going to help you with drafts, then turn to your classmates, who are in the same position. As a foreign language student, the writing center won't be much help, but your cohort might be able to help. You might find them needing the same help you need.

 

When I was an MA (English), my biggest obstacle was that there weren't enough critical articles assigned as part of the courses. There were very few, actually. I didn't get critical article assignments until I got into seminar courses where undergraduates are not welcome. Some profs give more articles than others. Some don't give any. This is an impediment because I did not think to go out and read them for myself, so I did not learn to read critical articles in lit as an MA student, so I could not write critical articles (the papers we turn in for class should be the first draft of a critical article) that met the conventions. It meant lower grades and a lot of frustration. One thing I learned as a creative writer, what you read regularly is what you're going to put out regularly. Read crap poetry, write crap poetry. It seems to work that way for academic writing. If you don't read academic research writing, you're not going to absorb the conventions of the genre, and you're not going to put out writing that meets those conventions.

 

So, my advice: get help from your fellow students by doing peer reviews. Read critical articles in the field to see what the conventions are. Pick one to use as an model for your own papers. If you're writing a comparison of two poems through a feminist theory lens, then find a paper that compares two poems through a feminist theory lens and use it to develop ideas for organization, use of theory, use of critical articles, and so on.

 

Do what your profs do: read the journals in your field of interest. Not cover to cover (who has that kind of time?), but the articles in your research interest. If the current issue doesn't have one, look at past issues. This will help you build your knowledge base as well as help you learn the conventions to write better papers.

[The Wayfarer]

Frankly I think the grade situation is heavily dependent on certain institutions and certain programs. For example: in my research design class I do not know anyone who did not receive a B/B+ on their first assignment. Whereas in other courses you do not receive any grades until your final grade; the expectation being that if you are way off the mark you will be approached.