Fall 2016 Applicants

[Danger_Zone]

1 minute ago, tipmar said:

At this point in the process, I find their response somewhat bizarre. Did you ask/ were told whether or not you are on said list? 

Unfortunately no, the grad secretary just said she didn't have a definite answer for me and apologized for it taking so long. I just really wish if it's a no that they would tell me. I only have a limited opportunity to visit campuses before the deadline, and it's really expensive for me to do so. So I don't really want to go all the way to Illinois on the very small chance that I'll get a yes...

[tipmar]

10 minutes ago, Danger_Zone said:

Unfortunately no, the grad secretary just said she didn't have a definite answer for me and apologized for it taking so long. I just really wish if it's a no that they would tell me. I only have a limited opportunity to visit campuses before the deadline, and it's really expensive for me to do so. So I don't really want to go all the way to Illinois on the very small chance that I'll get a yes...

Thanks, and I agree. I am also visiting the US within the next few weeks, and had hoped to know my status in all schools by now. Personally, I will not consider moving  anywhere for 5-7 years before visiting the department and area (I am sure others may feel differently, but it is crucial to me). 

I wonder what the advantages of maintaining such "secret" wait-lists may be. Why not notify those who are still being considered? I would think that they would prefer to do so in hopes of preventing those still interested from accepting other offers before hearing from them. 

 

[Danger_Zone]

12 minutes ago, tipmar said:

Thanks, and I agree. I am also visiting the US within the next few weeks, and had hoped to know my status in all schools by now. Personally, I will not consider moving  anywhere for 5-7 years before visiting the department and area (I am sure others may feel differently, but it is crucial to me). 

I wonder what the advantages of maintaining such "secret" wait-lists may be. Why not notify those who are still being considered? I would think that they would prefer to do so in hopes of preventing those still interested from accepting other offers before hearing from them. 

 

I would very much prefer to be put on a wait list than to hear nothing, even if I happened to be low on that list. At least it gives me a better idea of my potential options. Being on a wait list is by no means an acceptance, so I don't know if they just don't want to get people's hopes up or if there is another reason.

Also, I definitely agree that it's important to visit before making your decision, I learned that personally. For my undergrad I was set on attending one school, but during the visit I absolutely hated the campus and atmosphere and people actually seemed pretty rude. I was there for an audition, so the person who looked at my portfolio was pretty nice to me, but everything else made me uncomfortable. I took another campus visit to a school I was considering and it was not only beautiful, but people were incredibly helpful and friendly and it just made me feel "right" to be there. It's really important to me that I have that feeling or I'm probably not going to be very happy about where I am!

[Quickmick]

35 minutes ago, tipmar said:

I wonder what the advantages of maintaining such "secret" wait-lists may be. Why not notify those who are still being considered? I would think that they would prefer to do so in hopes of preventing those still interested from accepting other offers before hearing from them. 

 

I don't know if they do it for the 'secret' aspect, they just might release admits from that list as they hear rejections (declines) back.  Before I started my MS I had also applied to law schools, and while I don't know if PhD wait lists work the same way--I would guess they don't--for law they often keep the wait list going through summer and right up until august. Law schools obviously operate on a different business model, though (attendees pay, so the school wants a full cohort).

While its not possible for everyone to get the result they want, I hope everyone gets what they need from this cycle. This time I have been more of an observer, and it has reminded me how anxious I was heading into my MS so hopefully has helped as I prepare to go through it again this fall. I have appreciated the comments and the community here, so thanks and good luck!

Edited March 5, 2016 by Quickmick

[Septerra]

3 hours ago, Danger_Zone said:

I haven't been admitted, but I emailed about my application and got this response:

"Our initial admittance letters have gone out but the Graduate Studies Committee has a wait list and I do not know how long they will wait before sending out the second round, if any, of admittance letters." 

So.. I guess that's a bit vague but there does appear to be a wait list. The more I look into Illinois the more I think it would be a great fit for me, but I'm not very hopeful about receiving an acceptance at this point.. But who knows what could happen I guess. Maybe if people who do not want to go there start turning it down?

I am planning on e-mailing m POI at Illinois on Monday to inquire about where I stand. He gave me really positive feedback, calling my application file "great" in mid January. I also think Illinois would be a great fit for me, probably more so than UNC Chapel Hill. I will let you all know if and what my POI says!

[krystasonrisa]

1 hour ago, Danger_Zone said:

Unfortunately no, the grad secretary just said she didn't have a definite answer for me and apologized for it taking so long. I just really wish if it's a no that they would tell me. I only have a limited opportunity to visit campuses before the deadline, and it's really expensive for me to do so. So I don't really want to go all the way to Illinois on the very small chance that I'll get a yes...

What is your field? If you don't get a chance to visit but want to know more about student life in general at UIUC, I'd be happy to chat.  

[krystasonrisa]

3 hours ago, Danger_Zone said:

Oh I meant UIUC. Do you have any idea if they have sent out all acceptances then? I think my application was strong but if they are being even more cautious then I'm worried. 

Oh don't worry! I think, pure speculation, but based on the context and the tone of the gossip I got from a prof, it has been an issue with ideological matching. So if you did your research and picked a POI that is ideologically compatible, you have nothing to worry about. (This is my way of gently saying I think the issue is they let in a couple of right-wing scholars and it's not going well.) 

[Danger_Zone]

20 minutes ago, krystasonrisa said:

What is your field? If you don't get a chance to visit but want to know more about student life in general at UIUC, I'd be happy to chat.  

 

10 minutes ago, krystasonrisa said:

Oh don't worry! I think, pure speculation, but based on the context and the tone of the gossip I got from a prof, it has been an issue with ideological matching. So if you did your research and picked a POI that is ideologically compatible, you have nothing to worry about. (This is my way of gently saying I think the issue is they let in a couple of right-wing scholars and it's not going well.) 

Thank you! That'd be great. I'm interested in the history of medicine/science. I definitely think my POI would be a good match, both her current and past research projects (I did mention two I'd like to work with but I am leaning more towards one of them; however, I'd be happy to do research with either), but I'll have to see whether others agree!

[Neist]

On 3/5/2016 at 3:41 PM, Danger_Zone said:

Thank you! That'd be great. I'm interested in the history of medicine/science. I definitely think my POI would be a good match, both her current and past research projects (I did mention two I'd like to work with but I am leaning more towards one of them; however, I'd be happy to do research with either), but I'll have to see whether others agree!

Neato! Who were you hoping to work with? I apologize if you've already answered this. I've been a bit busy with grading papers the last week or so.

[Danger_Zone]

52 minutes ago, Neist said:

Neato! Who were you hoping to work with? I apologize if you've already answered this. I've been a bit busy with grading papers the last week or so.

I'm hoping to work with Dr. Leslie Reagan. I honestly just find all of the research projects she has done super interesting, and heard of some of her work before I even looked into UIUC. So I really think she would be a great match for me. I feel like maybe I should have e-mailed her to convey my interest, but at this point I'm too scared to hear that she isn't taking any new students or something like that and wouldn't even know what to say.

[SunshineLolipops]

Does anyone know anything about when Ohio State might start sending out rejection notices?

[SunshineLolipops]

Congratulations to the Saint Andrews acceptance.  If I could figure out funding, I'd be back studying in Scotland in a heartbeat.

[Septerra]

Got rejected from UNC Chapel Hill yesterday via portal

In other news, my POI at Illinois told me that since their class was overly large last year, they only sent 6 acceptances this year. I am on a wait list there with little hope, I suspect.

However, I am trying not to be upset about it. Although UNC Chapel Hill and Illinois rank higher than Ohio State, I think my POI at Ohio State will be the best fit for me, and I have nothing but good interactions with them from the beginning. The only thing I'm concerned about are job prospects, but I suppose I'd better not count my chickens before they hatch.

[archersline]

Congrats to the Wisconsin admit! That is awesome!! 

[krystasonrisa]

It may be productive to think about how rank is a constructed bias that functions in a problematic framework of unequal distribution and access, and which does not necessarily reflect quality and in no one influences the kind of scholar a student becomes. Rank is valuable to consider in terms of resources, like which programs have the best facilities and libraries, whatever. For other purposes, talking about rank can be a little insensitive to people who don't have a lot of options. Just something to think about. 

[stillalivetui]

27 minutes ago, krystasonrisa said:

It may be productive to think about how rank is a constructed bias that functions in a problematic framework of unequal distribution and access, and which does not necessarily reflect quality and in no one influences the kind of scholar a student becomes. Rank is valuable to consider in terms of resources, like which programs have the best facilities and libraries, whatever. For other purposes, talking about rank can be a little insensitive to people who don't have a lot of options. Just something to think about. 

Yeah sure, rankings are completely subjective. But rankings also have a lot to do with placements for employment much more than "best facilities and libraries." It's an unfortunate reality that we have to accept.

I don't think talking about rank is insensitive to others. This forum is made so we can discuss these issues openly in the hopes we all make informed decisions. 

Edited March 8, 2016 by stillalivetui

[archersline]

1 minute ago, stillalivetui said:

Yeah sure, rankings are completely subjective. But rankings also have a lot to do with placements for employment much more than "best facilities and libraries." It's an unfortunate reality that we have to accept.

I don't think talking about rank is insensitive to others because this forum is made so we can discuss these issues openly in the hopes we all make informed decisions. 

My opinion falls somewhere in between. While I recognize that rankings do play a real role in job placements, I believe that it a scholar's success boils down to their own determination, ability to provide unique commentary on a given topic, and educate and inform subsequent generations of students. I honestly believe that if you are confident in yourself as a scholar and a person you can overcome all of the biases and predispositions out there. 

[KLZ]

Have confidence, yes...but also publish, win fellowships/awards, and network. These are the factors that can help a candidate get to the interview stage, and they will be especially important for candidates not coming from "top"-ranked institutions. Also, when you get the job talk, nail it.

I agree with stillalivetui...rankings still matter on the job market. 

[archersline]

1 minute ago, KLZ said:

Have confidence, yes...but also publish, win fellowships/awards, and network. These are the factors that can help a candidate get to the interview stage, and they will be especially important for candidates not coming from "top"-ranked institutions. Also, when you get the job talk, nail it.

I agree with stillalivetui...rankings still matter on the job market. 

Good points all around. 

[knp]

Of course rank doesn't always reflect quality! But "it in no way influences the kind of scholar a student becomes" is too strong. I'm not sure it influences quality, but I do think it influences kind. For example, if one program requires three times as much TA experience as another, that program might be more likely to produce teacher-scholars than scholar-teachers, and have the philosophical orientation to academia to go with it.

In my own case, I am not going to go to—and really, shouldn't have applied to any of—the eight schools that produce 50% of TT faculty in history in the United States. A few people will argue that you should not go to graduate school if you did not get into one of those! (They will especially argue that for people like me, who want research-intensive tenure-track jobs.) Honestly though, however often they quote those numbers, I think that's silly. For my little subfield, only perhaps four of those have a relevant scholar, and I personally find those scholars' approaches to be rather old-fashioned. I happen to think I'm the snowflake where I will have a much better shot of getting a TT position if I go to one of the two PhD institutions I'm seriously considering right now, which are both ranked 9-25 depending on the source, than I would be if I went to a higher ranked program that was a terrible fit for me. (Although of course I know that "better" still doesn't mean "likely.") Plus, at this point, I do want a TT job. I've worked in libraries and museums, too, though, and I think many of my coworkers (many of whom with lower-ranked PhDs) were impressive models of scholarship. They didn't and didn't want to fit the all-publications-all-the-time model, but man, if that were the only scholarly orientation that existed, the world would be a much poorer place.

[Danger_Zone]

I really wish ranking wasn't so important. I was absolutely elated to have received an acceptance to my top choice.. but now all I can think about is how its lower ranking is going to hurt my chances to do anything in the future.. I didn't even realize it at the time of applying (I guess it was my ignorance that got me here), I was only concerned with how I felt I'd fit into that program.

[archersline]

2 minutes ago, knp said:

Of course rank doesn't always reflect quality! But "it in no way influences the kind of scholar a student becomes" is too strong. I'm not sure it influences quality, but I do think it influences kind. For example, if one program requires three times as much TA experience as another, that program might be more likely to produce teacher-scholars than scholar-teachers, and have the philosophical orientation to academia to go with it.

In my own case, I am not going to go to—and really, shouldn't have applied to any of—the eight schools that produce 50% of TT faculty in history in the United States. A few people will argue that you should not go to graduate school if you did not get into one of those! (They will especially argue that for people like me, who want research-intensive tenure-track jobs.) Honestly though, however often they quote those numbers, I think that's silly. For my little subfield, only perhaps four of those have a relevant scholar, and I personally find those scholars' approaches to be rather old-fashioned. I happen to think I'm the snowflake where I will have a much better shot of getting a TT position if I go to one of the two PhD institutions I'm seriously considering right now, which are both ranked 9-25 depending on the source, than I would be if I went to a higher ranked program that was a terrible fit for me. (Although of course I know that "better" still doesn't mean "likely.") Plus, at this point, I do want a TT job. I've worked in libraries and museums, too, though, and I think many of my coworkers (many of whom with lower-ranked PhDs) were impressive models of scholarship. They didn't and didn't want to fit the all-publications-all-the-time model, but man, if that were the only scholarly orientation that existed, the world would be a much poorer place.

I've seen it first-hand where faculty members who come from top-20 schools still struggle to find TT jobs, whereas professors from the University of Houston have had a TT job for years (both are at the same institution and are roughly the same age). 

Really good point though about teacher-scholars vs. scholar-teachers. 

[archersline]

6 minutes ago, Danger_Zone said:

I really wish ranking wasn't so important. I was absolutely elated to have received an acceptance to my top choice.. but now all I can think about is how its lower ranking is going to hurt my chances to do anything in the future.. I didn't even realize it at the time of applying (I guess it was my ignorance that got me here), I was only concerned with how I felt I'd fit into that program.

Don't ever fear about the job market - you have absolutely zero sway in how it operates or functions. Take advantage of the school you have chosen, work your butt off, produce (publish, network, etc.), and be one of the better doctoral students that department has ever seen. Seriously though, do not feel bad that you aren't at one of ten schools in America...most of us aren't

[stillalivetui]

11 minutes ago, Danger_Zone said:

I really wish ranking wasn't so important. I was absolutely elated to have received an acceptance to my top choice.. but now all I can think about is how its lower ranking is going to hurt my chances to do anything in the future.. I didn't even realize it at the time of applying (I guess it was my ignorance that got me here), I was only concerned with how I felt I'd fit into that program.

Don't let the rankings discourage you. If you determined this was your top choice then it seems that this program was a perfect fit with your interests, which will go a long ways. 

Be excited. PhD programs, no matter the rankings, are incredibly difficult to be admitted to. 

[Danger_Zone]

13 minutes ago, archersline said:

Don't ever fear about the job market - you have absolutely zero sway in how it operates or functions. Take advantage of the school you have chosen, work your butt off, produce (publish, network, etc.), and be one of the better doctoral students that department has ever seen. Seriously though, do not feel bad that you aren't at one of ten schools in America...most of us aren't

 

8 minutes ago, stillalivetui said:

Don't let the rankings discourage you. If you determined this was your top choice then it seems that this program was a perfect fit with your interests, which will go a long ways. 

Be excited. PhD programs, no matter the rankings, are incredibly difficult to be admitted to. 

Thank you both. It's just difficult to accept that I'm probably automatically at a disadvantage because of my school's ranking. But I'm absolutely determined to do the best I possibly can, and I hope that takes me somewhere eventually.