PhD Applications Fall '17 Season

[xypathos]

Multiple M* degress is becoming more and more common, certainly not an expectation but 2-3 Masters no longer seems to raise the eyebrows that it use to.

I was rejected from Villanova (PhD) but accepted into their MTS program. The Director noted in his email that given my background, I would certainly be given some, if not full, funding. He suggested I also apply for their Campus Ministry internship for M* students where they work part-time in campus ministry and in return: full tuition grant, room and board on campus, and a modest stipend. I subsidized most of my original M.A. by being a supply pastor for local Episcopal churches and working some on-call for the local hospice organization.

My point being, if there's a will - you can make it work.

Villanova may happen, I don't know but its been relatively complete radio silence for the other schools I applied to. I don't like the idea of doing another Masters but I want to be a theology professor so I'll jump through the hoops for it, as long as I'm not incurring debt to do it.

[inprogress]

3 hours ago, NT PhD ... Hopefully said:

My view is that being a Baptist makes me free from any doctrinal fundamentalism.

Sadly, the opposite is true in the eyes of most.  I come from a Baptist background as well. 

3 hours ago, NT PhD ... Hopefully said:

Does no no one have any thoughts on Fuller, Asbury, or Trinity???

I'm going to assume from your other comments that funding is less of an issue for you. That being said, while I don't know anything about funding at Asbury, I do know that Fuller and TEDS very rarely (like one student per year) offer tuition remission. TEDS can also provide you with an assistantship working for the Trinity Journal. (I know a PhD student there who has such an arrangement). 

If you want to teach at a conservative-to-mainstream evangelical school, TEDS and Fuller are decent places to do a PhD. A lot of the more conservative schools love TEDS grads; it's one of the main "feeder schools" for conservative liberal arts colleges and seminaries. If you want to teach at one of the more "prestigious" evangelical schools, like Wheaton College, Westmont College, or Gordon-Conwell, then I think you'll  have a hard time finding a spot with a Fuller/TEDS degree. They prefer to hire the conservatives who manage to graduate with PhDs from TT places in the U.S., or U.K. schools like St. Andrews, Aberdeen, Cambridge, etc. Some people get hired there with evangelical PhDs, but such schools definitely prefer "prestige" PhDs.

I don't have any experience with Asbury grads, but I've had professors from both Fuller and TEDS. Fuller is definitely more "liberal" than TEDS, both theologically and politically. All of the professors at TEDS believe in the inerrancy of Scripture. Many of them will argue about what that means, but they are all willing to use the term. I believe Fuller gave up inerrancy about 40 years ago. I just bring that up to say that if you want to teach at moderate evangelical-to-mainline schools (i.e., those that don't require inerrancy), Fuller would probably give you a bit more credibility. If you want to teach at a conservative school (i.e., those where inerrancy is a test of fellowship), then either is fine, but TEDS would probably be a better fit. 

I would also add this, a PhD from Fuller (without scholarships) will cost you $55,080; a PhD from TEDS (without scholarships) will cost you $46,500, and both of these programs will probably take you 5 years (and maybe one or two more) to complete. Tuition for a PhD from Aberdeen is about $54,000, and tuition at St. Andrews is about $60,000, and it will only take 3 years to complete your PhD. Given the savings in time and the increased odds of employment, I would give the UK options more consideration. 

Edited January 26, 2017 by inprogress
Added content

[hyperborean]

Rejected by St. Louis U via email. Waiting to hear back from the rest

[NT PhD ... Hopefully]

Hey "inprogress," I appreciate your comments. Thanks for responding. 

[Kuriakos]

4 hours ago, NT PhD ... Hopefully said:

Hey, thank you "wantingtogetinsomewhere" and "menge."  I appreciate your responses. It's good to vent right, lol, and this is mildly cathartic.  I would add that I am not at a Southern seminary, rather a divinity school at a Baptist "associated" university, though most of my professors are "pre-fall" Southern Seminary.  

As to SMU, one of our MA/MDiv students got in there last year and is focusing on the Gospel of Mark. As for Baylor, many of the professors there are Southern trained, and Baylor is a Baptist school, lol. But I know they draw from many traditions.  My mentor in seminary recieved his PhD under Parsons not too long ago. We recently got another OT graduate from Baylor, both of these got their MDiv from Gordon-Conwell. I hate the stigma that just because one is a Baptist, one is a uber-conservative fundy. My view is that being a Baptist makes me free from any doctrinal fundamentalism. I know UNC was a stretch, I was hoping for the MA-PhD track.  I also realize Emory was a stretch, but what the hay. 

I thought about U.K., but I used up my GI Bill getting a second undergrad and MDiv.  Good advice though.  I don't think my wife would let me drag us to Scotland, lol. 

Does no no one have any thoughts on Fuller, Asbury, or Trinity???  One thing I have going for me is a rather large pension from the VA (for very nearly getting my ass blown off in Baghdad).  Plus my wife has a full time job anywhere in the continental US, as she is a computer programmer and can work remotely (she has already been assured of keeping her current position). Therefore, I am in a better financial position than many of you whipper snappers, lol. 

Thanks again for your responses. Good luck to all!!!

As a current Baylor student, let me just say that wantingtogetinsomewhere doesn't really know what s/he is talking about. There are current students from all over the map in terms of liberal to conservative. We've had incoming cohorts with students from Yale and DTS in the same group.

[Wantingtogetinsomewhere]

31 minutes ago, Kuriakos said:

As a current Baylor student, let me just say that wantingtogetinsomewhere doesn't really know what s/he is talking about. There are current students from all over the map in terms of liberal to conservative. We've had incoming cohorts with students from Yale and DTS in the same group.

What subfield? Taken any people from the SBC seminaries in recent years?

[Maccabeus]

5 hours ago, NT PhD ... Hopefully said:

Does no no one have any thoughts on Fuller, Asbury, or Trinity???

I did my Masters work at Fuller and know several Phd students still there. Many of them are concerned about their future job prospects, especially since Fuller doesn't seem to have a good reputation among the more fundamentalist schools nor does it have a good reputation among the more liberal schools. Further, Fuller is not cheap and only a few students will receive tuition remission a year. On top of that, Pasadena is not a cheap place to live either and is only getting worse as even the cheaper parts of Pasadena are being gentrified. I grew up Baptist as well but was pretty moderate when I started. Fuller prides itself on being a moderate voice in the Evangelical world. I would say that was true when I first started back in 2011 but would hesitate to say that now. Fuller has not done well financially over the past few years and may be putting on a more conservative face to be more attractive to more conservative potential students. Of course, this last part is just speculation. With that said, I enjoyed my time at Fuller and always felt that the professors had my success as one of their concerns. When I was applying for Phd programs a couple of years ago, my professors bent over backwards to make sure I was prepared. Do you mind if I ask who your POI is at Fuller?

[turktheman]

I saw on the results page about a PTS pre-interview arranging a Skype interview . Does anyone know if the committee has done it's thing?

Edited January 26, 2017 by turktheman
Clarity

[NT PhD ... Hopefully]

22 minutes ago, Maccabeus said:

I did my Masters work at Fuller and know several Phd students still there. Many of them are concerned about their future job prospects, especially since Fuller doesn't seem to have a good reputation among the more fundamentalist schools nor does it have a good reputation among the more liberal schools. Further, Fuller is not cheap and only a few students will receive tuition remission a year. On top of that, Pasadena is not a cheap place to live either and is only getting worse as even the cheaper parts of Pasadena are being gentrified. I grew up Baptist as well but was pretty moderate when I started. Fuller prides itself on being a moderate voice in the Evangelical world. I would say that was true when I first started back in 2011 but would hesitate to say that now. Fuller has not done well financially over the past few years and may be putting on a more conservative face to be more attractive to more conservative potential students. Of course, this last part is just speculation. With that said, I enjoyed my time at Fuller and always felt that the professors had my success as one of their concerns. When I was applying for Phd programs a couple of years ago, my professors bent over backwards to make sure I was prepared. Do you mind if I ask who your POI is at Fuller?

The POI would be Joel Green. Can't think of many I would rather work with for Luke-Acts. I appreciate your comments. Thank you. 

Again, at least for me, somethings have to be taken on faith (including future job prospects). Five years ago I was laying on the floor of a jail cell, puking my guts out because I was an oxy addict from my injuries in Iraq. I was looking at a 7 year prison sentence for doctor shopping.  I spent 9 months in long term jail, without seeing the sun or sky during that time. Now I'm reading Ancient Greek and Hebrew, lol, graduating with honors from a splendid little MDiv program. Go figure. I guess what I want the most is not an assurance of future employment, I'll leave that to God. What i want is to attend a program that equips me for the advanced study of NT. The rest, I'll leave to the creator. 

Thanks again for your response!  

[turktheman]

On 1/24/2017 at 3:37 PM, mattieb said:

Does anyone know about the UT Austin interviews? I also applied there under the Religion in the Americas track and am wondering if I'm out of the running since I didn't get one. 

 

On 1/24/2017 at 4:26 PM, mattieb said:

 

Yeah I agree. Weird about the interviews though since in past years there's no mention on the results page of UT interviews. I guess we just continue to wait! 

 

7 hours ago, Wantingtogetinsomewhere said:

 

The interviews were for Mediterranean religions. The interviews are a new part of the process for that subfield, but I don't think that the other areas necessarily held their own interviews. Results should be out soon enough, however, since they normally fly their admitted candidates to campus in very early February. 

So, I know it's already been confirmed, but I had an interview with UT Austin for the AMR track this week. I got an email sometime last week to set it up. I think pretty much the whole AMR faculty was there. I wish I could comment on Religion in the Americas track. 

[menge]

3 hours ago, xypathos said:

3 hours ago, xypathos said:

Multiple M* degress is becoming more and more common, certainly not an expectation but 2-3 Masters no longer seems to raise the eyebrows that it use to.

I was rejected from Villanova (PhD) but accepted into their MTS program. The Director noted in his email that given my background, I would certainly be given some, if not full, funding. He suggested I also apply for their Campus Ministry internship for M* students where they work part-time in campus ministry and in return: full tuition grant, room and board on campus, and a modest stipend. I subsidized most of my original M.A. by being a supply pastor for local Episcopal churches and working some on-call for the local hospice organization.

My point being, if there's a will - you can make it work.

Villanova may happen, I don't know but its been relatively complete radio silence for the other schools I applied to. I don't like the idea of doing another Masters but I want to be a theology professor so I'll jump through the hoops for it, as long as I'm not incurring debt to do it.

FWIW I'll be one of those with multiple master's. Both positives and negatives to this, IMO. 

[KnightGeorge]

@Kuriakos, any thoughts on the Baylor preview weekend? Advice for any folks attending? Things to look for, things to avoid, etc.? 

 

 

Edited January 27, 2017 by KnightGeorge

[Rabbit Run]

14 hours ago, turktheman said:

I saw on the results page about a PTS pre-interview arranging a Skype interview . Does anyone know if the committee has done it's thing?

Last week's interviews were just for the Hebrew Bible half of the Bible department. Not department interviews. Don't know about their decisions, but historically PTS releases decisions for all departments either the 3rd or 4th Friday of Feb.

[Maccabeus]

17 hours ago, NT PhD ... Hopefully said:

The POI would be Joel Green. Can't think of many I would rather work with for Luke-Acts. I appreciate your comments. Thank you. 

Again, at least for me, somethings have to be taken on faith (including future job prospects). Five years ago I was laying on the floor of a jail cell, puking my guts out because I was an oxy addict from my injuries in Iraq. I was looking at a 7 year prison sentence for doctor shopping.  I spent 9 months in long term jail, without seeing the sun or sky during that time. Now I'm reading Ancient Greek and Hebrew, lol, graduating with honors from a splendid little MDiv program. Go figure. I guess what I want the most is not an assurance of future employment, I'll leave that to God. What i want is to attend a program that equips me for the advanced study of NT. The rest, I'll leave to the creator. 

Thanks again for your response!  

That's awesome. Keep up the good work. I didn't mean to sound discouraging. I really enjoyed studying at Fuller overall. I focused on the Hebrew Bible even in my Masters so I never got to take Joel Green. But I've heard a lot of great things about him. Good luck with your apps!

[NT PhD ... Hopefully]

Hey thanks Maccabeus. Best of luck in your endeavors as well!

[RD_Paul]

7 hours ago, KnightGeorge said:

@Kuriakos, any thoughts on the Baylor preview weekend? Advice for any folks attending? Things to look for, things to avoid, etc.? 

 

 

Congrats to everyone invited to Baylor. I'm a first-year NT student. Baylor's a good place. Rigorous, theological, good cohort of students. 

As for Wantingtogetinsomewhere's question about SBC students, I don't know of any students from SBC seminaries in any of the four subfields. Honestly, I'm not sure they'd want to come here anyway. That being said, we're a diverse student body that leans (in my opinion) progressive Evangelical, at least that seems to me the case with this fall's incoming class. There are certainly exceptions to that, but at least in the NT subfield, we are all at least somewhat interested in theological/ecclesial questions. I'm one of the more interested in those questions among those currently taking coursework. I'm Anabaptist, and I only feel a bit out of place.

As for advice for preview weekend, I'd say the biggest thing is just to relax. You've made it to preview weekend, so they're intrigued by what you might add to the department community. It's cliche, but true: be yourself. Expect to get lots of questions about your interests and your SOP. The faculty are relatively easy to talk/connect with. 

[MayaK]

On 1/26/2017 at 11:26 AM, Wantingtogetinsomewhere said:

Chapel Hill has already done interviews and unless something happens, I wouldn't expect a nod from them.

Can anyone verify this? I saw a post in results that someone had an interview with their POI (4 days after the application deadline...?), but haven't seen anything else. 

[HBgrad2017]

On 1/26/2017 at 11:16 AM, axiomness said:

I applied to all three of those, and I did last year as well.  I received a phone call saying I got the nomination for my area (Phil Religion) at Yale at the beginning of February, and they ended up taking an Islamic studies person in that stead (which I discovered a few weeks later). I received a waitlist notification for Chicago in mid February.

Those aren't in HB, though, but Phil Religion/Theo. 

Ooof, is it typical for Yale to notify those who get nominations for their areas before giving them an official offer? I feel like I would rather just never know if I got close like that.

 

Also, did you get an interview at Chicago? I've been told by at least one person that Chicago Div gave him an interview, but I don't know how typical that is. (If so, around when did they send interview invitations?)

Also, seeing as how we're in different fields, hope ya get in!

[xypathos]

38 minutes ago, MayaK said:

Can anyone verify this? I saw a post in results that someone had an interview with their POI (4 days after the application deadline...?), but haven't seen anything else. 

I can't confirm this specific post but UNC generally notifies exceptionally early. Their "we really want this one" candidates are notified of acceptances within the first week of the deadline closing.

[Marcion]

I was chatting with one of my professor's today and Stanford called him and my two other advisers. Apparently they are interested in me and wanted to know more. I am taking this as a good sign, but trying (and failing) not to get my hopes up.

[HBgrad2017]

I noticed that there's been a 2nd Yale interview on the results page in the theology area. Does anyone know if all areas interviews potential applicants? Specifically does anyone have any idea if they interview HB students?

[Marcion]

5 minutes ago, HBgrad2017 said:

I noticed that there's been a 2nd Yale interview on the results page in the theology area. Does anyone know if all areas interviews potential applicants? Specifically does anyone have any idea if they interview HB students?

None of the NT people have been asked for interviews yet if people are wondering.

[HBgrad2017]

2 minutes ago, Marcion said:

None of the NT people have been asked for interviews yet if people are wondering.

So was the Yale NT interview on the 19th a false flag?

[Marcion]

2 minutes ago, HBgrad2017 said:

So was the Yale NT interview on the 19th a false flag?

I might be mistaken but no one who applied to Yale from Yale has received interview requests. It is possible they wont, but we have not heard anything... but I could be completely out of the loop. One of our students got in UNC Chapel.  

[HBgrad2017]

8 minutes ago, Marcion said:

I might be mistaken but no one who applied to Yale from Yale has received interview requests. It is possible they wont, but we have not heard anything... but I could be completely out of the loop. One of our students got in UNC Chapel.  

Gotcha. So are you currently at Yale?